MH17: Evidence a Missile was Used. Shrapnel, etc.

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sorry, but here is more untranslated (by someone other than me here) info in Russian language:

1. a blog (http://avva.livejournal.com/2788606.html) that repeats Ukraine@War but also provides additional findings - specifically a geolocation map that was created before the map produced by Ukraine@War, and shows launch location that matches the location independently deduced by Ukraine@War

2. same blog makes a reference to audio recordings that were provided to the blogger by someone. The audio is an intercept of Zello App (wi-fi walki-talkie) conversations from the area of the incident. Of a particular interest is a statement made by a woman @ 2:25 - ): "guys, I just listened to a story [not sure if she's referring to someone else or this overall conversation happening]... (sigh) ... I was in the vegetable garden, it's actually [located] in October [reference to Red October farm - хутор Красный Октябрь - Червоный Жовтень] ... heard a roaring sound, came from nowhere this roar. Literally it was all quiet, and right away this loud roar. I look up ... something was flying ... well, I can't say for but it was like flying from direction where Saurivka is... I thought it was a missile.. then I called my mom, we went down to the cellar, and afterwards heard some explosions. when it was flying it already had a white smoke and had a loud roaring sound and was flying over Red October farm towards the town, in that direction". Once she's done talking a second later a male voice states "The mine #8 confirms". Then another male voice: "I was also standing on my balcony [in some apartment building] and saw [can't make it what he says] go into the clouds and then I heard explosion"
 
Say what? You know the flight was at 33,000 feet and air gets thinner the higher you go, right? If anybody survived the break up, it gives bounds for the time someone could stay conscious.
Oh....yeah....assuming an instant decompression? About 60 to perhaps 120 seconds of consciousness....at that altitude.

EDIT....assuming NO supplemental O2, of course....

Thing is....(and this is macabre)....the PSAs above the seats WILL deploy O2 masks automatically....AND, some people (may) have used the O2.....but as I said, this is macabre.
 
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So based on that chart Chew, they would've been conscious for 30 seconds to a couple of minutes if they remained at 33,000 ft. But since they were falling, it's possible some if not many could've been conscious the entire way down if they survived the missile fragmentation, and unzipping of the plane. It's horrible to think of these things, but I keep imagining what they went through and the thought of falling 30000ft to my death just scares the sh*t out of me.
 
This video claims to be the footage of the moment the plane was hit by the missile, then you see the right side of the plane where the doors are on fire or the wing. So the plane didn't break up right away, it looks like it continued on for 30 seconds. So the FDR's will definitely have information in there to help them figure out the events that unfolded.. Can someone let me know if this is authentic
 
Interesting video. I would hope that the team investigating the FDR will be able to add that video into their investigation...and either incorporate, or refute it.
 
THAT VIDEO IS NOT MH17.

It was uploaded 1 week prior to the MH17 downing.

May be the AN-30.


Edit: should of said the original video was uploaded 1 week earlier and not this English titled copy.
 
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Edit to add: Snap! :)

This video claims to be the footage of the moment the plane was hit by the missile, then you see the right side of the plane where the doors are on fire or the wing. So the plane didn't break up right away, it looks like it continued on for 30 seconds. So the FDR's will definitely have information in there to help them figure out the events that unfolded.. Can someone let me know if this is authentic


Same video here is July 6 Ukrainian aircraft shot down by a MANPAD - so it's fake IMO - just another idiot CT trying to fake up "evidence"



MANPADS typically do not have a large enough engine to burn all the way to the target - they can "go ballistic" (coast) for quite a long way so there is no particular reason to expect a smoke trail. That is also why their range is very limited.
 
You can see the result of days of evidence 'tampering' (maybe not on purpose but just local residents cleaning up) when you compare the last picture set of jeroen akkermans with the picture attached, that has been on avherald.com for some days. It's the same floor section, look at the white house in the background, but a lot of other debris has been piled up as well. This will make the reconstruction more difficult. Hopefully all these pictures will help.
 

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Supposed video of the missile launch.

One comment says this type of satellite is not capable of video and only takes a picture every 15 or 30 min for cloud research.

 
http://aviationweek.com/blog/update-digitalglobes-and-after-images-mh17-crash-site

Says that worldview satellites couldn't take a picture from crash site, because of overcast, at 17th July.

DigitalGlobe has supplied downloadable KMZs of pre-MH17 imagery (http://goo.gl/225JTa) and post-MH17 imagery (http://goo.gl/1OfuC5) to Google Plus, images that were collected July 16 and 20. They've also told me that cloud cover prevented clear shots of the area on July 17, the day of the crash.
Content from External Source
 
Crash site was overcast, certainly, but it's not clear if the same weather conditions applied 25 or so km away at the suggested launch site - the sole 'missile trail' picture shows clear skies, which is one reason it's not entirely reliable unless we can back the different weather conditions up.
 
http://www.parismatch.com/Actu/Inte...-du-crash-comment-le-MH17-a-ete-abattu-576889

from Pprune site MH17 assuming it was head on hit,, thou may have come from rear either way same result

Trajectory analysis (map included) seems to show the front end of the plane (cockpit + business) was indeed detached at missile impact and falled down on ~ original trajectory, while the bigger middle/rear part (eco + wings + tails) veered left.
Content from External Source
Comment-le-MH17-a-ete-abattu_article_landscape_pm_v8.jpg
 
Space.com explains some of the satellite systems that might have been used to detect the missile based on its plume, and trajectory.
Satellite systems
Since the Cold War, the U.S. Department of Defense has had a multibillion-dollar space-based system to provide early warning for intercontinental ballistic missiles.

"It is a very, very precise system that has constant coverage, especially over Russia and Ukraine," said Riki Ellison, founder of the Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance.

Starting in the 1970s, the Pentagon has launched a series of high-altitude satellites with Earth-facing infrared telescopes as part of its Defense Support Program, or DSP. That constellation has kept a continuous watch on the planet for the hot plumes of exhaust from missiles to warn the military and intelligence communities about possible strikes and battlefield threats.

In the past few years, DSP has undergone a major upgrade, becoming the Space Based Infrared System (SBIRS), with the launch of better satellites that can detect faint missiles faster.

SBIRS now includes two geosynchronous Earth orbit (GEO) satellites, built by Lockheed Martin, that are each hover above an unchanging spot on planet, more than 22,000 miles (35,400 kilometers) high. (For comparison, the International Space Station orbits at an average altitude of about 248 miles, or 400 km). The first of those satellites, dubbed GEO-1, launched from Cape Canaveral in May 2011. Lockheed Martin recently announced that it won a $1.86 billion Air Force contract to complete the fifth and sixth GEO satellites as part of SBIRS.

It's likely that the strike on MH17 showed up as an alarming blip on screens at Buckley Air Force Base in Colorado where those data from the SBIRS is processed. The detection is precise enough to detect where a missile was fired from and what kind of missile it was.

"Each missile has a different signature plume," Ellison said.

Ellison told Space.com that other military satellites in the region probably would have been alerted to gather further information to be provided to the U.S. European Command.
Content from External Source
Here's an artist illustration of the newst missile detection satellites "SBIRS"
 
http://www.parismatch.com/Actu/International/Vol-MH17-La-piece-a-conviction-qui-accuse-577040

claim high velo hits to airframe

note to readers a female body pictured in link the French press dont seem to censor

View attachment 8161

Appears to be part of a window frame, probably from the cockpit. The flange, bolts, and piece of gasket indicate the view is from the inside looking out. The "fragment hole" would be from something outside the aircraft.

As an aside, if the coal mine headframe shown in the article is shockingly primitive - like something from the 18th century.
 
@TEEJ do you know where this peice was found by the way. I can't locate that concrete pole it's leaning against in any of the photos. This is part of the cockpit..

Apologies for the late reply, Jason.
The wreckage was recovered by the people of Petropavlovka from a villager’s back yard last Thursday and moved to the roadside because it was believed to be important.
Content from External Source
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/1d6a9ac2-10e3-11e4-b116-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38Z8WtIEY
 
Would this type of missile target the cockpit? It would make sense to choose this as the most vulnerable part of any aircraft.
 
Yes it would. Proximity fuses are set to explode beside the cockpit. Taking the aircraft out is one thing, taking the pilot out is a bonus.
 
Yes it would. Proximity fuses are set to explode beside the cockpit. Taking the aircraft out is one thing, taking the pilot out is a bonus.

Identifying the flight crew's bodies is critical as they were likely killed directly by fragments given the evidence in post 104. Since the cockpit did not burn the bodies should be identifiable. If they turn up missing then the rebels have been sanitizing the site.
 
This is the port side (pilot's left) front wheel well cover:


It's relatively undamage, indicating the missile likely exploded above the cockpit:

 
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-17-black-box-findings-consistent-with-blast/

Unreleased data from a black box retrieved from the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in Ukraine show findings consistent with the plane's fuselage being hit multiple times by shrapnel from a missile explosion, CBS News correspondent Mark Phillips reports.

"It did what it was designed to do," a European air safety official told CBS News, "bring down airplanes."

The official described the finding as "massive explosive decompression."
Content from External Source
 
Identifying the flight crew's bodies is critical as they were likely killed directly by fragments given the evidence in post 104. Since the cockpit did not burn the bodies should be identifiable. If they turn up missing then the rebels have been sanitizing the site.

Others told of a pilot still strapped into his cockpit seat, who was found in a local village.
Content from External Source
http://online.wsj.com/articles/some-bodies-removed-from-mh17-crash-site-1405849163
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-17-black-box-findings-consistent-with-blast/
Black box findings consistent with missile blast
Unreleased data from a black box retrieved from the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in Ukraine show findings consistent with the plane's fuselage being hit multiple times by shrapnel from a missile explosion.

"It did what it was designed to do," a European air safety official told CBS News, "bring down airplanes."

The official described the finding as "massive explosive decompression."


Content from External Source
 


this image particularly looks like shrapnel coming IN, not what you would see with [...] theories about a bomb onboard
 
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http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-17-black-box-findings-consistent-with-blast/
Black box findings consistent with missile blast
Unreleased data from a black box retrieved from the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in Ukraine show findings consistent with the plane's fuselage being hit multiple times by shrapnel from a missile explosion.

"It did what it was designed to do," a European air safety official told CBS News, "bring down airplanes."

The official described the finding as "massive explosive decompression."


Content from External Source


I'm now slightly concerned that the FDR findings are being leaked....! I guess its a sign of the times, where everyone needs to know everything NOW....
 
Conspiracy theorists seem to be picking up on an interview given by Michael Bociurkiw of the OSCE. See from 06:05 in the video and reference to "machine-gun holes".

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malays...-crash-site-1.2721007?cmp=rss&partner=skygrid

The following is from the interview video. My bold.

[Michael Bociurkiw] There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked. It almost looks like machine gun fire. Very, very strong machine-gun fire that has left these unique marks that we haven't seen anywhere else. We have also been asked for example have we seen any examples of missile? No we haven't that's the answer and even if it was there we don't have those trained eyes to pick that out, but now there are experts here who would be able to.
Content from External Source
Michael Bociurkiw is clearly not an expert and admits that in the video interview. He is clearly just highlighting as a non-expert holes that to him look like machine-gun fire. I expect that if you showed him images from A-10 Warthog SAM warhead damage then he would describe the damage as looking like "machine-gun fire".

I can see the comments being taken out of context and possibly linked to the following article?

Entry And Exit holes from bullets in the area of the Cockpit. This is not speculation, but analysis of clear facts: the cockpit shows clear evidence of bullet holes. You can see the entry holes and some exit points. The edges of the bullet holes are bent inwards, these are much smaller and round in shape. A 30mm calibre. The exit holes are less well formed and the edges are torn outwards Furthermore it is visible that the exit holes have torn the double aluminium skin and bent them outwards. That is to say, splinters from inside the cockpit blew through the outside of the cabin. The open rivets have also been bent outwards….There is only one conclusion one can make, and that is that this: the aircraft was not hit by a missile. The damage to the aircraft is exclusively in the cockpit area….
Content from External Source
http://investmentwatchblog.com/new-...ukrainian-air-force-jets/#KzCjOHqqAqD2PmOr.99

As you can see from the above link people are starting to make graphics for the absurd aircraft cannon theory.

 
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