Ben Harris
Senior Member.
Well said. An endless circus.
Luis Elizondo's Claims of Coming UFO Disclosure
- Thread starter Ann K
- Start date
John J.
Senior Member.
Luis Elizondo, quoted in @Ann K's OP (link here),
When are we past "mid 2024"?
The middle day of the calendar year 2024 was July 2, (Day Week Years website), we're forty days past that.
Summer Solstice was on June 20 (Live Science website) and we're fifty-two days past that.
Did I miss something? If it happened, was it "...worth it"?
We've read Lou's not a man to make empty promises, he says so himself.
(My emphasis).External Quote:
When are we past "mid 2024"?
The middle day of the calendar year 2024 was July 2, (Day Week Years website), we're forty days past that.
Summer Solstice was on June 20 (Live Science website) and we're fifty-two days past that.
Did I miss something? If it happened, was it "...worth it"?
We've read Lou's not a man to make empty promises, he says so himself.
I suspect this is just his book, now slated for release on August 20th. The original publication date might have changed due to the DOPSR review taking longer than anticipated.
Ben Harris
Senior Member.
Yes, in the psychic industry, it's called the "Negative Success Gambit."
John J.
Senior Member.
To be honest I sort of suspected that, though I hoped there'd be a new claim of evidence to go along with it.
I'm sure it will be a wonderful read, but he's no J.K. Rowling
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Steve Collyer
Guest
To be fair, the last 7 years have been absolutely remarkable in terms of developments in alleged UAP disclosure.
If any of this is true, I'd much favour soft disclosure over time. A drip feed, rather than an avalanche of paradigm-busting data and evidence in a catastrophic disclosure, which could well lead to all sorts of societal, economic and psychological problems on a global scale.
To say that nothing has really changed regarding this general topic since the 1970s is a stretch too far, in my opinion.
--2017 NYT article confirming that after decades of denial, UFOs are being actively investigated within the Pentagon
--3 videos confirmed UAP are released (and still show as unresolved UAP at the time of posting this, on the AARO site)
--18th May 2022 first Congressional hearing relating to UAP
--26th July 2023 first whistleblower Congressional hearing involving key witnesses
--13th November 2024 further Congressional hearing currently scheduled
I certainly can't remember anything like this in my lifetime.
jarlrmai
Senior Member.
There's nothing at all that suggests that the wider government thinks there is anything other than mundane explanations for any of those videos.
What's unprecedented is the level to which people with as yet unfounded and very unusual beliefs who were connected to the old guard of UFO believers were able to manoeuvre funding and organise within government to investigate their beliefs and then go public once it got shutdown.
The subsequent ability of the movement to align itself with Trumpian politicians looking for the 'deep state' was slightly unexpected but in hindsight seems logical.
What's unprecedented is the level to which people with as yet unfounded and very unusual beliefs who were connected to the old guard of UFO believers were able to manoeuvre funding and organise within government to investigate their beliefs and then go public once it got shutdown.
The subsequent ability of the movement to align itself with Trumpian politicians looking for the 'deep state' was slightly unexpected but in hindsight seems logical.
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Steve Collyer
Guest
It's not just the UFO pro-disclosure movement (the movement I am assuming you refer to?) but the UAP hearings have widespread bipartisan support in the Congress.
jarlrmai
Senior Member.
Yeah it's interesting as there's 2 very different reasons people might want the US military to come under scrutiny even if the reasoning is flawed, left leaning politicians want the military held to greater account for budget etc and right wing qanon politicians want the 'deep state' exposed.
But this is all very complicated and it might even be that UAPTF etc might have missed the rise of real Chinese / Russian surveillance drones and high altitude balloons whilst they were diverted looking for werewolves at Skinwalker ranch.
But this is all very complicated and it might even be that UAPTF etc might have missed the rise of real Chinese / Russian surveillance drones and high altitude balloons whilst they were diverted looking for werewolves at Skinwalker ranch.
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Steve Collyer
Guest
AARO tacitly accept that the US has unknown aircraft of unknown origin which can move with impunity in restricted areas, or in close proximity to Naval fleets with nuclear-powered aircraft carriers.
If that doesn't warrant further investigation, then what does?
If that doesn't warrant further investigation, then what does?
jarlrmai
Senior Member.
Where is that stated?
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Steve Collyer
Guest
According to AARO these objects remain unresolved.
https://www.aaro.mil/UAP-Cases/Official-UAP-Imagery/
FLIR (Tic Tac) (USS Nimitz)
Gimbal (USS Theodore Roosevelt)
Gofast (USS Theodore Roosevelt)
https://www.aaro.mil/UAP-Cases/Official-UAP-Imagery/
FLIR (Tic Tac) (USS Nimitz)
Gimbal (USS Theodore Roosevelt)
Gofast (USS Theodore Roosevelt)
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Steve Collyer
Guest
I stated that they are unknown aircraft of unknown origin.
How is that currently not the case?
jarlrmai
Senior Member.
Unknown as in what though? Like we don't know the serial number of the jet?
S
Steve Collyer
Guest
Like as in AARO currently can't tell you what they are.
Don't shoot the messenger - complain to AARO!
Z.W. Wolf
Senior Member.
1966 - Perhaps the greatest UFO flap in history.
January - Wanaque, police officers and several other witnesses reported seeing strange lights over the Wanaque Reservoir. Witnesses claimed the lights seemed to hover over the water, move erratically, and even affect the water level of the reservoir.
March - Witnesses reported sightings of strange lights and objects over Dexter and Hillsdale, Michigan. Police officers, college students, and local citizens claimed to have seen flying saucer-like objects hovering or moving in erratic patterns.
Dr. J. Allen Hynek, an astronomer and consultant to Project Blue Book, the U.S. Air Force's official UFO investigation program, was sent to Michigan to investigate. After evaluating the reports, Hynek famously suggested that the sightings were likely caused by swamp gas, a natural phenomenon where decaying organic matter produces methane, which ignites in the air.
Hynek's swamp gas explanation was widely ridiculed, and it caused public outcry. Many believed the explanation was dismissive and failed to address the credibility of the witnesses, including police officers.
March - Michigan Congressman and future president Gerald Ford calls for congressional investigation. "The Air Force has been accused of hiding something. It is time for a full, open, and public hearing on the matter."
IBM sponsored "CBS Reports" television special hosted by Walter Cronkite. Featuring Carl Sagan, Allen Hynek, Donald Keyhoe, George Van Tassel and more. This special aired as a response to the Michigan UFO "Swamp Gas" flap of 1966.
April - Portage County, Ohio, two police officers, Dale Spaur and Wilbur "Barney" Neff, reported chasing a UFO for nearly 86 miles at high speed. The UFO was described as a large, glowing object that hovered low in the sky and changed speeds rapidly. The officers followed the craft across state lines into Pennsylvania before losing sight of it.
The Portage County incident received significant attention, and it was eventually featured in the 1977 movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
April - The U.S. House Armed Services Committee held a hearing to discuss UFOs. While the hearing did not lead to any conclusive answers about the Michigan sightings or UFOs in general, it helped to elevate the conversation about UFO phenomena in the U.S. government.
August - At Minot AFB, military personnel reported seeing multiple UFOs hovering near the base's missile silos. The sightings were captured on radar, and witnesses included both airmen and control tower personnel. This sighting is significant because it occurred at a nuclear weapons facility, which has been a common location for UFO reports, suggesting an interest in nuclear technology by the unidentified craft.
October - In Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia, multiple witnesses, including pilots and fishermen, reported seeing a large, low-flying object crash into the water. Canadian authorities, including the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) and the Canadian Coast Guard, investigated the event. No wreckage was found, and the event remains unexplained.
It is considered one of the most well-documented UFO crashes, often referred to as "Canada's Roswell."
October - Condon Report was commissioned. The U.S. Air Force tasked physicist Dr. Edward Condon and the University of Colorado to undertake a scientific study of unidentified flying objects (UFOs). This investigation, officially known as the "Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects", was intended to review the UFO cases investigated by the Air Force's Project Blue Book and determine whether the phenomena warranted further investigation.
The study culminated in the Condon Report, published in 1968, which concluded that further UFO study was unlikely to yield scientific advancements, leading to the eventual closure of Project Blue Book.
The excitement came and went, and nothing definitive has ever happened.
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jarlrmai
Senior Member.
@Steve Collyer
I'm not really sure what your point is, everyday people see things that they can't tell what they are.
This alone does not seem to be where we started on this conversation, what is there to disclose about people not being able to tell what things are in all cases?
I'm not really sure what your point is, everyday people see things that they can't tell what they are.
This alone does not seem to be where we started on this conversation, what is there to disclose about people not being able to tell what things are in all cases?
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Steve Collyer
Guest
I was born after 1966 
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Steve Collyer
Guest
That is what the congressional hearings have been arranged to get to the bottom of.
If there's nothing to see here, why has the Schumer UAP amendment repeatedly been blocked?
If it doesn't affect US national security, then why are Reps Mike Turner and Mike Rogers blocking disclosure even to congress?
Eburacum
Senior Member.
Well, for a start, the object seen in GoFast may not even be an aircraft. It is consistent in size and speed with a large bird. Unfortunately the exact nature of this object cannot be determined, because it is in the Low Information Zone, where this sort of identification is not possible without further information. According to AARO this information is not available, so we may never know.
Mendel
Senior Member.
Compare:
You have commented on the AARO historical report!
except we now found out it was Elizondo's hobby, so "within the Pentagon" doesn't mean it was official
nothing anomalous about them
nothing was disclosed
nothing was disclosed
It's all smoke and mirrors. There is nothing to disclose.
Mendel
Senior Member.
because it's a waste of money and a security problem
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Steve Collyer
Guest
According to virtually every source on the matter, you need to be corrected.
AAWSAP was the officially funded Pentagon UAP investigation program, set up by Senator Reid.
AATIP was the unofficial Elizondo led off-shoot after the AAWSAP funding ran out.
AAWSAP was the officially funded Pentagon UAP investigation program, set up by Senator Reid.
AATIP was the unofficial Elizondo led off-shoot after the AAWSAP funding ran out.
Mendel
Senior Member.
It is trivially easy to take pictures or video of something that you're not going to be able to identify. That's utterly uninteresting.Like as in AARO currently can't tell you what they are.
Don't shoot the messenger - complain to AARO!
It only gets interesting when we
• should be able to identify it, but can't, or
• can't make a reasonable guess.
In that sense, the 3 Navy videos are not interesting (any more).
Mendel
Senior Member.
This is false.
Mendel
Senior Member.
The allegations are remarkable, but as there's zero evidence forthcoming, they must be considered false.
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Steve Collyer
Guest
In what way?
Have AARO now identified the tic tac and Gimbal and not thought to update their own website? Or do AARO state that the Tic Tac and Gimbal were nowhere near US military assets USS Nimitz and USS Roosevelt?
Mendel
Senior Member.
AAWSAP was not officially a UAP investigation program.
See https://www.metabunk.org/threads/the-origins-of-aawsap.12484/
What the NYT revealed in 2017 was Elizondo's hobby program—entirely unofficial, we agree.
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Steve Collyer
Guest
I thought Bigelow urged Reid to set up AAWSAP to investigate UAP? At least that's what Elizondo wrote in a book which was passed by a DOPSR.
I'm not afraid to admit that I could be wrong though....
I'm not afraid to admit that I could be wrong though....
Z.W. Wolf
Senior Member.
Wanaque Reservoir sighting - Probable astronomical bodies. Rigel, Sirius, Jupiter and Capella were prominent. Possibly involved scattered clouds. Very tentatively may have involved mirage effects over frozen lake.
Dexter and Hillsdale, Michigan - Mostly astronomical bodies. Hynek was present when cops started chasing a star. Famous time-lapse photo shows the Moon and Venus as streaks with same length. UFO in this photo was Venus. Most other witness testimony is consistent with bright stars and planets.
Portage County, Ohio UFO Chase - Cops, fooled by parallax effects, chased Venus. Sighting may have been started by bright meteor sighting which got their attention, and they shifted their attention to Venus.
Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia - Unknown, possibly maritime distress flares. More likely, a bolide. This sighting was later conflated with other unrelated sightings.
Dexter and Hillsdale, Michigan - Mostly astronomical bodies. Hynek was present when cops started chasing a star. Famous time-lapse photo shows the Moon and Venus as streaks with same length. UFO in this photo was Venus. Most other witness testimony is consistent with bright stars and planets.
Portage County, Ohio UFO Chase - Cops, fooled by parallax effects, chased Venus. Sighting may have been started by bright meteor sighting which got their attention, and they shifted their attention to Venus.
Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia - Unknown, possibly maritime distress flares. More likely, a bolide. This sighting was later conflated with other unrelated sightings.
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Mendel
Senior Member.
"AARO tacitly accept" is false, they don't.
"that the US has" is false
"unknown aircraft of unknown origin" is false
"which can move with impunity in restricted areas" is false
"or in close proximity to Naval fleets with nuclear-powered aircraft carriers" is not unusual at all.
Please bring evidence to support your claims.
That's irrelevant. Neither is evidence of what you claim.
Nobody states that they were.
Z.W. Wolf
Senior Member.
WWII ended 11 years before I was born. That's why I know nothing at all about WWII.
Point: It's good to study history. The present UFO thing is a mere shadow of the flaps of 1966 and 1973.
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Mendel
Senior Member.
a) that's not what it officially was
b) they investigated Bigelow's Skinwalker Ranch
See https://www.metabunk.org/threads/the-origins-of-aawsap.12484/ on the book co-authored by the head of AAWSAP, not a publicity-seeking UFO believer.
DOPSR just check you're not spilling any secrets. They'll happily sign off on any amount of falsehoods.
Then do it.
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Steve Collyer
Guest
Jeez rather aggressive posting style there. Think I'll not engage any more.
You win.
You win.
Mendel
Senior Member.
I want to lean into this a bit more, since it's also on topic.
The December 2017 NYT article was basically Elizondo saying "I did something I didn't tell anyone about, not even my immediate superior—but me doing this secret thing means the government investigates UFOs—and heroically I am blowing the whistle on this, or else the public would never have known!"
It's Elizondo blowing the whistle on himself and his own unsanctioned activities.
Except not really, because what did "AATIP" actually do? Is there any record on it? (And if so, why doesn't Elizondo FOIA it, for even more disclosure".)
What evidence is there to support Elizondo's claims about what he did between 2012 and 2017? What did he do, exactly?
Mendel
Senior Member.
*cough*grush*cough*
Mendel
Senior Member.
I apologize if I came across as aggressive; that is not my intent.
I aim for "direct".
Eburacum
Senior Member.
Grusch also blew the whistle without giving anything concrete. This really doesn't help the process of disclosure very much at all.
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