Look-Up favours NLP in Chemtrail Awareness Campaign

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1424571421115383&id=1410029482561123&stream_ref=10

Is it just me or does anyone else find this concerning?
Interesting . . . Words are important . . . how they are used in and out of context . . . traditional definitions as well as evolving definitions . . . nothing is static, not even our language.

If debunkers are labeled . . . Chemtrail Deniers . . . how does it affect the debate? Is it an unfair term? I don't think we know?

Balance . . . what are your specific concerns?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1424571421115383&id=1410029482561123&stream_ref=10

Is it just me or does anyone else find this concerning?

Well, it's nothing new. There are frequent calls not to use the term "chemtrail". However the original coining of the term "chemtrail" was itself a deliberate spin. The very early versions of the theory used the term "mystery contrail", but they felt it was too innocuous, so eventually came up with "chemtrail".

http://web.archive.org/web/20000815234743/http://www.trufax.org/research3/contrails.html

 

Mark Barrington

Active Member
OK, NLP is Neuro-Linguistic Programming. I don't think I've ever put much thought into the idea. I know that advocates like to control the language of the debate to use terms that are favorable to them, but I don't think it's always successful, and they can't control the terms anyone else uses. I guess it's such a familiar concept to the regular crew at Metabunk that if you use the TLA (three letter acronym) everyone knows what you mean.
 

Mark Barrington

Active Member
I also think the effort to use non-standard terminology isn't necessarily going to help their cause. It just will tend to marginalize them and make them look more 'out there' than they already are.
 

Balance

Senior Member.
Balance . . . what are your specific concerns?

Fear of the unknown probably kicking in as I don't fully understand the implications of NLP but The Programming part mostly concerns me, I think. From the wiki, it does seem to be controversial.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Fear of the unknown probably kicking in as I don't fully understand the implications of NLP but The Programming part mostly concerns me, I think. From the wiki, it does seem to be controversial.
it's just normal marketing. what the op is talking about.PR.

people like to use fancy sounding terms for things now a days.
 

Balance

Senior Member.
it's just normal marketing. what the op is talking about.PR.

people like to use fancy sounding terms for things now a days.

Hmm. Having witnessed the resultant zombies consuming rabidly, making (dis)informed decisions, etc that's what worries me.

I have seen Idiocrsy, the documentary
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Oh no!!! "NLP"

For "Look Up" as an organization, the acronym might more aptly be "No Logical Prognosis". (2nd alternative, "No Logical Premise").
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
I also think the effort to use non-standard terminology isn't necessarily going to help their cause. It just will tend to marginalize them and make them look more 'out there' than they already are.

IT's apparent the reason they do not want to use the term chemtrail is because it's obvious no one has proved there are any chemicals being sprayed. That's why they use geoengineering. It can be found in many documents and many discussions.
 

Balance

Senior Member.
I know it's speculation, but I think it's more to do with the popularity/acceptance of the term 'Climate Change Deniers' which has naturally gathered traction.

Using NLP, in the words of look-up
and by association, is hoping to increase support without doing the work - polarisation? It will also likely create an immediately hostile mind-set against any opposition, regardless how that opposition is presented.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I know it's speculation, but I think it's more to do with the popularity/acceptance of the term 'Climate Change Deniers' which has naturally gathered traction.

Using NLP, in the words of look-up
and by association, is hoping to increase support without doing the work - polarisation? It will also likely create an immediately hostile mind-set against any opposition, regardless how that opposition is presented.
yup. only draw back is they need the word Chemtrail to pull it off!
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
The verb "deny", defined as it is to "state that one refuses to admit the truth or existence of", brings with it the conscious intent to hide something known by the actor to be true.

This move (described in the OP) is a skillful use of language, and I'm not sure how to counter it.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
The verb "deny", defined as it is to "state that one refuses to admit the truth or existence of", brings with it the conscious intent to hide something known by the actor to be true.

This move (described in the OP) is a skillful use of language, and I'm not sure how to counter it.
I wouldn't counter it. I would promote it. they are desperately trying to move away from the chemtrail tag. let's stick them with it.
 

Balance

Senior Member.
I guess the saving grace could be that he/she/they has openly admitting to trying to....


And as this is intended through the use of NLP, one might say it's Psychological manipulation


 
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David Fraser

Senior Member.
Fear of the unknown probably kicking in as I don't fully understand the implications of NLP but The Programming part mostly concerns me, I think. From the wiki, it does seem to be controversial.
Look up appears to have no understanding of NLP. While the use of language is important so it is important to have something internally to associate it with. If used in a clinical setting it is used as an aspect of hypnotherapy.

There is very little, if not no, empirical evidence on it working https://www.kcl.ac.uk/nursing/newsevents/news/2012/Little-evidence-for-NLP-in-Healthcare.aspx but its proponents defend it to the hilt. When training as a counsellor I stayed well clear and most academic institutions don't teach it anyway.
 

mrfintoil

Senior Member.
Look up appears to have no understanding of NLP. While the use of language is important so it is important to have something internally to associate it with. If used in a clinical setting it is used as an aspect of hypnotherapy.

There is very little, if not no, empirical evidence on it working https://www.kcl.ac.uk/nursing/newsevents/news/2012/Little-evidence-for-NLP-in-Healthcare.aspx but its proponents defend it to the hilt. When training as a counsellor I stayed well clear and most academic institutions don't teach it anyway.

I think it's more about them wanting to manifest their opinion in simple words more than actual mental manipulation.
It's like when 911 debunkers call followers of the truth movement "truthers", the truthers call the debunkers "falsers" in return.
Some use the derogatory term "chem-tards" to emphasize the perceived stupidity involved in "chemtrail" belief.

So I think it's less about actual NLP and more about putting emotions and attitudes into simple words to easier present your disposition in the community. No matter what subject we tend to like creating portmanteau words, macro expressions and idioms all the time because it is convenient and fun. I would not worry too much about this ;)
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
I think it's more about them wanting to manifest their opinion in simple words more than actual mental manipulation.
It's like when 911 debunkers call followers of the truth movement "truthers", the truthers call the debunkers "falsers" in return.
Some use the derogatory term "chem-tards" to emphasize the perceived stupidity involved in "chemtrail" belief.

So I think it's less about actual NLP and more about putting emotions and attitudes into simple words to easier present your disposition in the community. No matter what subject we tend to like creating portmanteau words, macro expressions and idioms all the time because it is convenient and fun. I would not worry too much about this ;)

I agree, it's just a spin .. To you're examples I'll add "pro-life". The movement to re-criminalize abortion used to be call "anti" abortion till they realized "prolife" sounded much better and made it sound positive..
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
I notice the Government petition Look Up has online is not exactly snowballing. http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/58686 575 have signed it so far but he does need 100,000. He has achieved in 6 weeks what he should be getting per day. Given that he paid to promote his posts on FB he must be disappointed. I would be interested to see what it achieves. I think this does show that the movement is not as extensive as we are lead to believe and certainly is not approaching critical mass.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
There is very little, if not no, empirical evidence on it working
It seems to me plausible it has an effect as there is a conscious intent to use it in a certain way, as an act of will it would work to change behaviour. Isn't it just a form of cognitive behavioural therapy?
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
It seems to me plausible it has an effect as there is a conscious intent to use it in a certain way, as an act of will it would work to change behaviour. Isn't it just a form of cognitive behavioural therapy?
In therapeutic terms it is similar to CBT in that it is a solution based therapy, however I would say NLP is more like Gestalt. CBT looks at a behaviour but without the need to address the causative factors unlike NLP. Unfortunately a therapy like NLP is very subjective and like many others hard to gather empirical evidence.
 
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