Local Perspectives on Coronavirus re-openings

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Things seem to be opening up here in El Dorado County, California. Restaurants in particular. Yesterday (Sat May 23, 2020) I drove through downtown Placerville. It looked like a regular Saturday with most of the restaurants open, people walking around. About 1-2% mask usage. It seemed almost like a normal Saturday.

(Old photo, but looked more or less like this)

We are very lucky around here to have had very few (74) cases, no deaths. Only 5 cases in the Greater Placerville area.


The worry isn't really about a second wave, it's about a first wave that never hit. There's a strong independent spirit here, and a percentage of people have probably fallen for the "it's a hoax" idea to some degree. Right now they are probably taking very little individual risk in going out, but the risk to the region might be quite high.

In particular, Placerville is a day-trip tourist destination for people from Sacramento, and a stop-off for people traveling between the San Francisco Bay Area and Lake Tahoe. They have been isolated, but that may change soon.

Anyone else seeing things re-opening?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Connecticut is mild reopening. but we got whomped (1000 deaths per million so far). so everyone I have seen has masks on (haven't gone to any parks, I tend to go to non-popular woodsy places), including all delivery drivers etc.

restaurants are only outdoor dining or pick up. salons maybe open in early june.

Like you said, in your area it didn't really hit so it probably NY, new Orleans seems a bit surreal to y'all… like a movie.
Me i'm staying isolated for at least another 3 weeks. see how this semi reopening goes. and the fallout from memorial day barbeques etc.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
My county had its 52nd case identified on April 12th, and the 53rd case on May 19th, 5 weeks later.
The health office is contact tracing and has discovered more cases, we're up to 62 today.

Other cases elsewhere in Lower Saxony have been on the news, it's not just outbreaks in meat plants and care homes any more that are keeping the numbers statewide from falling. That said, Germany does have over 80/401 counties without a case for the past 7 days, so generally we've done well. Hopefully, we can catch these new infections before major outbreaks develop, and people can adjust their behaviour on the upcoming holiday weekend.

Most people seem to be careful and wear masks in public, but I've seen younger people meet in small groups to drink together.
The difficulty is always that infections may take 2 weeks to show up in the statistics; the 10 new cases may just be the tip of the iceberg.
 

Mbrucker

New Member
I too am in Placerville. I was horrified by what I saw at the heyday Café about a week ago. Tables too close together people walking in and out. People way too close together and no signs.
 

derwoodii

Senior Member.
Australian states are opening up schools going back shops opening motels taking overnight bookings. still some states still have bordered closed to non essential travelers but its generally been well managed.

i can go fishing sailing weekend trips my gun club still closed for few more weeks due to only groups of 10 allowed ATM

International travel will be a issue for some time and any one coming in needs super good reason plus 14 day isolation eg my sons girlfriends dad caught up out of country at start is now in 5 star motel for 2 weeks
 

Mechanik

Active Member
Another Californian here. We're located about 90 minutes from downtown Los Angeles in a rural mountain community that has zero diagnosed cases. We're also located in Los Angeles County which has not relaxed or reopened much of anything. When I go into town for errands, I've noticed fewer people wearing masks, and traffic appears to be on the rise. Stopped by Costco for gas and a car wash (car washes are open now), but skipped the shopping because the line went around the building.

Also stopped at the local Lowe's home store and the garden section was packed. I had to elbow my way through the crowd at several points. Masks are still required to enter, but many folks pulled their masks down while shopping.

Tourism from the cities is getting weird. I came upon a clot of cars alongside the highway yesterday, 10 miles from the nearest city, and found that maybe 50 people had stopped to pose on and around the freshly-baled hay in some farmer's field. No social distancing, few masks.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
Philadelphia is still locked down for another two weeks. Then we go to yellow which still means restaurants are closed.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I'm going to get my hair cut next week. There are some fairly good measures in place to make it safe - both wearing masks, no waiting area (wait in the car, text when arriving), no guests, hand sanitizer, temperature checks.

Real estate house viewings are also resuming around here, with some pretty stringent restrictions/guidelines.

Metabunk 2020-05-30 07-56-13.jpg
 

Oystein

Senior Member
I am in the westernmost district of Germany, Heinsberg, which became infamous as one of the districts with the first major outbreaks in the country, and it (or rather the most-affected municipality of Gangelt, some 20 km from my own place) is also the subject of follow-up studies, e.g. on antibody prevalence.

For some time now, stores have generally reopened, and when the weather is good, and it mostly is, inner cities are pretty full. Stores have to restrict number of people inside, depending on size. This is generally abided by. People wear masks 100% while inside. Outside, most take masks off (and so do I).
Since recently, restaurants (which formerly did deliveries and offered pick-up) are open, with mandatory distances between tables and restrictions on who and how many can be seated at a table. Staff has to take down your name, address and phone number and the time interval you spent on which table, to enable tracking. Staff wear masks, guests can take masks off while seated. Again, I observe that most people are compliant.

Public transport is (almost?) back to normal capacity, but trains at least are still markedly emptier than they were before the crisis - I generally feel safe with the distance I can keep and the low number of people breathing into the air of a car. There was a time earlier, around April 1st I'd say, when service was limited and the few trains that ran were too packed for my comfort.

As of yesterday, my district (pop.: quarter million) has had 1882 cases tested positive, of which 1711 have recovered, 76 have died, 95 cases are not yet resolved. The majority of cases were in the municipality of Gangelt itself (485 cases, 11 deaths; pop.: ca. 12,500) and in the town of Heinsberg ( 453 cases, 26 deaths; pop.: ca. 42,000). My own town, slightly larger than Heinsberg, "only" had 95 cases, 5 deaths, 8 active cases. That's 2,190 cases per million, 115 deaths/million - both values very close to those for the whole of Germany (2188 and 103, respectively). Gangelt, for comparison, had 39,000 (!) cases/million and 880 deaths/million - that's twice the case rate as NY state and half its death rate.


(Bit of trivia: The famous 16th century cartographer Gerardus Mercator (actually: Gheert Cremer), the inventor of the Mercator projection, lived in Gangelt for the first six years of his life; his parents were born there. Fittingly though by coincidence, a "Mercator Point" (intersection of integer-numbered Mercator coordinates), namely coordinates 51°00'00" North 6°00'00" East lies within the village limits of Gangelt proper! Such points lie ca. 70 km apart along the 51st N, and about 111 km apart along the same meridian; there should be only near 50 Mercator points within Germany)
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I went to Home Depot in Folsom yesterday (June 1 2020). I live more or less between the Placerville Home Depot (Placerville population 11,000, near mountains) and Folsom (population 79,000, near the big city of Sacramento.) It was as busy as normal, I noticed:
  • Over 50% of the customers were wearing masks. This was a stark contrast with Placerville Home Depot, where it was more like 20% on May 7th, and probably much less now. Shows a different perception between city folk and country folk. Not unwarranted, as there are hardly any cases in rural areas here, so far.
  • No clear demographic divide between mask/no-masks. Lots of young couples wearing masks.
  • Hand sanitizer was less of a feature. Nothing available to wipe down carts that I noticed. There was some at the self-service checkout, but tucked away behind the machine, like nobody was using it.
  • There's a one-queue system now, with social distance (6 feet) marked on the floor.
  • Far fewer staff were using masks than customers.
  • There was a helpful announcement over the PA every few minutes telling people to keep their distance, was their hands, not touch things, and cough into their arms. No mention of masks.
We drove all through the biggest Folsom shopping street (Bidwell). Several restaurants were doing curbside pickup and/or takeout. The Chick-fil-A appeared to be doing a roaring drive-though trade with multiple stations, and people with hand-held terminals taking orders from a long line of cars. No signs of any protests. Normal traffic.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Went to a Farmers Market in Folsom, California today (June 6th 2020). Other than about 10% mask-wearing, and a bit less crowded, things all seemed as normal.
Metabunk 2020-06-06 13-38-33.jpg
Metabunk 2020-06-06 13-39-51.jpgMetabunk 2020-06-06 13-40-14.jpg
This sign didn't seem to be fully complied with.
Metabunk 2020-06-06 13-41-29.jpg
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Our numbers are down. only like 400 hospitalized now! yay!
but went for milk last night to a gas station store, wore my 3 ply mask and gloves. cashier had mask. but another customer came in with no mask so I went 2 aisles away while he got his drink and then I stopped about 20 feet from cashier to let him go first. of course he argued with me uncomfortably long, trying to 'let me go first :) ' .. I insisted 'no you go' because I figured he'd stand right behind me. the cashier didn't say anything but he gave me a nice nod as I came up so I think he was grateful for the mask gesture.

the first gas station I went to still had the pumps on but they must have locked the store part at 9pm. 2 men hanging around near door (told me it's closed) weren't wearing masks.
 

GeorginaB

New Member
HI, Nottingham UK here, I went to the supermarket in the middle of the day yesterday, definitely still more shoppers in the middle of the day than there usually would be which makes me think that allot of people are still off work on furlough or working from home. I would say somewhere between 10% and 20% of people were wearing face masks. Noticing less people wearing gloves which means that hopefully the message is getting through about how useful gloves actually are compared to just hand-washing. Some people still look visibley scared and others seem absolutely fine. Most people are very respectful and keep a distance, everyone is much more aware of each other. The tram that goes past our street is still very empty compared to usual, I haven't seen anymore than 10 passengers on the tram at anyone time. Seen lots of groups of teenagers meeting up in the park and hanging out not distancing but kids are less risk averse than adults so that doesn't seem unusual although its definitely more common than it would have been three weeks ago.
 

Picard

Banned
Banned
Outside almost nobody is wearing a mask. Going into the stores, like Grocery, I would say about 60-70% Mask usage. I personally hate wearing them, and will avoid doing if possible. I do my best to avoid getting too close to people, and if I'm around a friend that is a high health risk, I keep my distance, and or wear a mask.

We just reached "Stage 2" in most of my province. We did a more regional approach, as the GTA area was still a hot spot. Malls, daycare are open. Restaurants are open, but are limited to take out only or patio.
 

M Bornong

Senior Member.
Kern County, California. I'd like to see a few more masks, but haven't had too much trouble keeping my distance in the few stores I have to go into. My main concern is the church reopenings, most seem to be following the guidelines and some are still keeping it to live streaming to protect their members, but there has to be a few bad apples.

Kern County is a fairly even split between Whites and Hispanics, with about 15 to 20% other races. The Hispanic community has maintained a steady 2/3's of our active cases.

This is a Spanish to English google translation.
bustillo614b.jpg
Source: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2819177961522116&set=a.109112169195389&type=3&theater


The hugs, touching of faces, and length of service in a confined space during yesterdays service was quite concerning.
bustillo614.jpg
Source: https://www.facebook.com/la.mision.jesus/videos/2817808404992405/


The official Kern County Public Health Department position is that no county or city resources will be used to enforce the State guidelines, they expect everyone to use common sense.

I can only keep my fingers crossed that McFarland, CA does not soon become a hot spot.
 

MikeG

Senior Member.
My county transitioned to the "yellow" phase and you can already see things loosening up. Mask use is down and I keep hearing reports from friends about people giving them a hard time about wearing masks.

If you look at where I live, we are way above the national average for cases. Things are much better, but we are definitely not out of the woods yet.
Berks County.png
I may start a thread on plans for returning to school. That is a major concern among my colleagues right now.
 

Attachments

In Alexandria, VA, almost nothing has changed. Except now there's no ad hoc fence in front of the Home Depot to form a line. It is my understanding that dining could start having dine-in options against, but I'm not sure I've actually seen any restaurant that does.

We gambled and made the drive to south Georgia to visit family. I haven't left the house since arriving three days, so I have no idea what it is like around here. We basically traded "working from home with my wife and toughing out a broken air conditioner" for "drive ten hours to be at her mother's house, with my sister-in-law and her husband, to work from home at a house with a swimming pool."
 

Leifer

Senior Member.
I am having a sorta-polite argument with a person/people who believe that "mandated mask wearing" is a "socialist" introduction.
=AZX2rcm0ZeIK5Rq2druk3QeAMJgQfVawF3PsSmYeK2nDp_Zqfk_kyvZBYLn2wShBILsGRg5G6EpLBSuO4MBLtnTP1tfBEUptGSc1B5hom7jPMpwx9ZXPqpL_mpA3d1ueXLc&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R]Source: https://www.facebook.com/dawnlevymichael/posts/10223414187690647?__cft__[0]=AZX2rcm0ZeIK5Rq2druk3QeAMJgQfVawF3PsSmYeK2nDp_Zqfk_kyvZBYLn2wShBILsGRg5G6EpLBSuO4MBLtnTP1tfBEUptGSc1B5hom7jPMpwx9ZXPqpL_mpA3d1ueXLc&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R
People seem to be very polarized on the issue.
I argued that just because mask-wearing was mandated, does not mean the Gov't is an overlord.
 

DavidB66

Active Member
I recently saw a PBS documentary (I live in the UK but PBS is available here now) on the 'Spanish Flu' epidemic. A lot of photos and film from the USA in the period showed everyone wearing face masks. I don't know if it was legally compulsory, but it was certainly widespread. Unfortunately, it made very little difference. The virus particles passed through the masks almost unhindered. An expert described it as trying to catch flies with a fishing net (or some similar phrase).
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I don't know if it was legally compulsory, but it was certainly widespread.
this article was recently written. and im not familiar enough with the site to vouch for it's accuracy, but...
https://www.history.com/news/1918-spanish-flu-mask-wearing-resistance
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I am having a sorta-polite argument with a person/people who believe that "mandated mask wearing" is a "socialist" introduction.
=AZX2rcm0ZeIK5Rq2druk3QeAMJgQfVawF3PsSmYeK2nDp_Zqfk_kyvZBYLn2wShBILsGRg5G6EpLBSuO4MBLtnTP1tfBEUptGSc1B5hom7jPMpwx9ZXPqpL_mpA3d1ueXLc&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R]Source: https://www.facebook.com/dawnlevymichael/posts/10223414187690647?__cft__[0]=AZX2rcm0ZeIK5Rq2druk3QeAMJgQfVawF3PsSmYeK2nDp_Zqfk_kyvZBYLn2wShBILsGRg5G6EpLBSuO4MBLtnTP1tfBEUptGSc1B5hom7jPMpwx9ZXPqpL_mpA3d1ueXLc&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R
People seem to be very polarized on the issue.
I argued that just because mask-wearing was mandated, does not mean the Gov't is an overlord.
your FB link in post is not available to us to view.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Reopening is hard. A 49-year-old woman in our county died of Covid-19 (only the second death here), and they held an 80-person funeral with people from far and wide, including her close family members that were supposed to quarantine. Of course that's wholly against regulations, and I think having police and emergency services show up at the funeral and test everyone wasn't really what they had in mind.

Germany has been at ~300 daily cases nationwide for a while, so discovering an outbreak in meat packing plant with over 1000 cases is a bit of a setback. Health officals are still hoping to contain it without a local lockdown.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
person/people who believe that "mandated mask wearing" is a "socialist" introduction.
Where do they stand on seat belt laws?
Do they think that the seat belt issue was decided on ideology, or on facts concerning safety and accident statistics?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Where do they stand on seat belt laws?
Do they think that the seat belt issue was decided on ideology, or on facts concerning safety and accident statistics?
Leifer is paraphrasing and since we can't see her words, it isnt really fair to assume what she is saying.

but yes, anything that hinders your liberties is a "socialist introduction" <that's me assuming what Leifer means by "socialist introduction".
 

frankywashere

New Member
who is "her" ?
but anytime you take personal liberties away for the social good, it is "socialist". no? but this thread is for "Local perspectives on reopenings", not really a "debate-masks" thread, so i dont really want to get into it here.
apologies i meant to reply to Liefre, he said he was having a debate with someone about mandated mask wearing. My suggestion was to show them the science behind mask wearing and perhaps it would open them up to the idea that it's a good idea and maybe make them feel more comfortable that it be mandated.
 

MikeG

Senior Member.
Where do they stand on seat belt laws?
Do they think that the seat belt issue was decided on ideology, or on facts concerning safety and accident statistics?
This had me thinking of vaccinations as a precondition for going to school. It is pretty common practice for public health. Masks are basically the same, albeit visible.
 

Jon Adams

New Member
The virus particles passed through the masks almost unhindered. An expert described it as trying to catch flies with a fishing net (or some similar phrase).
Perhaps it would have worked better if they were "fly" fishing.

Cheers and 73 - Jon N7UV
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
Leifer is paraphrasing and since we can't see her words, it isnt really fair to assume what she is saying.

but yes, anything that hinders your liberties is a "socialist introduction" <that's me assuming what Leifer means by "socialist introduction".

With the concept/word socialism being referred to a number of times in this thread it would be good to have a common understanding of the definition of socialism compliments of the Online MERRIAM-WEBSTER dictionary:

socialism
noun

so·cial·ism | \ ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm \
Definition of socialism

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
There doesn't seem to be any indication that mandating citizens to take health/safety measures would be a socialist policy or introduction to socialism.

It seems to me that the word/concept of socialism has been redefined by some to mean 'doing anything for the common good' and that the mere idea of such a policy has become abhorrent to an entire sector of the political landscape.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
It seems to me that the word/concept of socialism has been redefined by some to mean 'doing anything for the common good' and that the mere idea of such a policy has become abhorrent to an entire sector of the political landscape.
agreed. but lots of words have been redefined in politics.. woman, racist, evidence, proof, debunk, equality, defund etc etc

but we dont know what the woman said or meant. "socialist" was Leifers interpretation. he also said "government overlord".
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
I've seen two social media posts being shared that perfectly express some counterpoints here:
My suggestion was to show them the science behind mask wearing and perhaps it would open them up to the idea
Article:
image.jpeg

The source has a short video clip of that.
This had me thinking of vaccinations as a precondition for going to school. It is pretty common practice for public health. Masks are basically the same, albeit visible.
image.jpeg

Knowing what we know about Anti-Vaxxers and other conspiracy theorists, the core issue isn't the science, but whom they are willing to trust. They're cut off from most sources of information because they've become convinced not to trust them.

Back in April, mask wearing and other prevention was still mostly bipartisan:
Article:
image.png
YouGov interviewed 1,088 respondents on April 21 who were then matched down to a sample of 1,000, according to gender, age, race and education. The frame was constructed by stratified sampling from the full 2017 American Community Survey. Assuming the sample is nationally representative, the margin of error around the reported results is 3%.

But Trump had already succeeded in cutting his followers off from the WHO as an information source:
Article:
image.png
Trust in Trump and the World Health Organization from April 21 YouGov survey of 1,000 Americans. Categories ‘somewhat’ and ‘very’ are combined.


So, you may have a good chance to get a Democrat to consider this document:
Article:
Advice on the use of masks in the context of COVID-19
Interim guidance
5 June 2020

This document is an update of the guidance published on 6 April 2020 and includes updated scientific evidence relevant to the use of masks for preventing transmission of Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) as well as practical considerations. The main differences from the previous version include the following:
• Updated information on transmission from symptomatic, pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic people infected with COVID-19, as well as an update of the evidence of all sections of this document;
• New guidance on the targeted continuous use of medical masks by health workers working in clinical areas in health facilities in geographical areas with community transmission1 of COVID-19;
• Updated guidance and practical advice for decision- makers on the use of medical and non-medical masks by the general public using a risk-based approach;
• New guidance on non-medical mask features and characteristics, including choice of fabric, number and combination of layers, shape, coating and maintenance.

Most Republicans probably won't.

Ironically, back in late March or early April, the Director General of the WHO had already been strongly messaging at the WHO press briefings that the virus exploits it when the epidemic countermeasures becomes politicized. From the outside, it looks like the US is set to prove him right.

I think a good way to deal with people for whom not wearing a mask has become an issue of ideology is to listen to what their issues actually are, and then engage them in discussion that lets them separate the health issues (for themselves and the people they care for and wish to protect) from the ideological issues, and helps them realize that these don't need to be joined together.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Most Republicans probably won't.
America doesnt need to listen to WHO. We have the CDC.

i stopped really trusting WHO years ago, i forget what they did specifically. they listed something as possibly carcinogenic and it seemed to be purely politically motivated, not science based. (maybe it was something to do with Monsanto).

To me WHO is necessary and great as far as getting vaccines to underdeveloped countries. or helping with outbreaks in underdeveloped countries. and funding should continue for those purposes. But we have our own health authorities so why would i listen directly to WHO.

Not that some Republicans and Independents and classical liberals trust the CDC either, but just saying it's weird to get your medical advice from WHO. CDC at least in theory cares specifically about Americans.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
America doesnt need to listen to WHO. We have the CDC.
I'm looking at the public guidance for face coverings at the CDC:
Article:
Use of Cloth Face Coverings to Help Slow the Spread of COVID-19

About Cloth Face Coverings
Wearing Cloth Face Coverings
Recommendations
Making Cloth Face Coverings
Washing Cloth Face Coverings

The first section has a link to "studies and evidence", but I'm having trouble finding anything that's relevant there (at https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol/guidelines/isolation/index.html ).

Where is the CDC sharing science on the use of masks?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Where is the CDC sharing science on the use of masks?
i'm not sure why you are asking that. (one is here). but the general public doesn't look at the actual studies, they mostly get their info from news media sites or TV news.

and the CDC recommended wearing masks before the WHO did.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-offer-conflicting-advice-masks-expert-tells-us/story?id=70958380
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I saw that, that's where I linked, I don't see anything about masks in that list.
i think its more studies on asymptomatic transmission which would 'back' the need to wear masks. which it looks like all those studies are.
asymptomatic people can spread it by yelling or coughing, so if we all wear some type of mask because we dont know if we have it... we can somewhat prevent ourselves from spreading it to others.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
A lot of people across the spectrum have raised concerns that the CDC is not acting independently of the administration's political agenda and people within the administration and the GOP have stated there is a desire to add more political appointees within the agency. I, for one, do not believe that Trump's political appointees care about Americans as much as they care about re-electing Trump.

America doesnt need to listen to WHO. We have the CDC.

i stopped really trusting WHO years ago, i forget what they did specifically. they listed something as possibly carcinogenic and it seemed to be purely politically motivated, not science based. (maybe it was something to do with Monsanto).

To me WHO is necessary and great as far as getting vaccines to underdeveloped countries. or helping with outbreaks in underdeveloped countries. and funding should continue for those purposes. But we have our own health authorities so why would i listen directly to WHO.

Not that some Republicans and Independents and classical liberals trust the CDC either, but just saying it's weird to get your medical advice from WHO. CDC at least in theory cares specifically about Americans.

I would argue that under the Trump administration many people who once trusted the competence and apolitical nature of the CDC no longer have any confidence in them.

From The Lancet: Reviving the US CDC

Deborah Birx, the head of the US COVID-19 Task Force and a former director of the CDC's Global HIV/AIDS Division, cast doubt on the CDC's COVID-19 mortality and case data by reportedly saying: “There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust”.
The article goes on the explain how the once premier health agency was adversely impacted by the Trump administration's actions to the point that even:

QUOTE] The Trump administration further chipped away at the CDC's capacity to combat infectious diseases. CDC staff in China were cut back with the last remaining CDC officer recalled home from the China CDC in July, 2019, leaving an intelligence vacuum when COVID-19 began to emerge. In a press conference on Feb 25, Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, warned US citizens to prepare for major disruptions to movement and everyday life. Messonnier subsequently no longer appeared at White House briefings on COVID-19. More recently, the Trump administration has questioned guidelines that the CDC has provided. These actions have undermined the CDC's leadership and its work during the COVID-19 pandemic. [/QUOTE]


From Politico: Trump team weighs a CDC scrubbing to deflect mounting criticism

White House officials are putting a target on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, positioning the agency as a coronavirus scapegoat as cases surge in many states and the U.S. falls behind other nations that are taming the pandemic.

Trump administration aides in recent weeks have seriously discussed launching an in-depth evaluation of the agency to chart what they view as its missteps in responding to the pandemic including an early failure to deploy working test kits, according to four senior administration officials. Part of that audit would include examining more closely the state-by-state death toll to tally only the Americans who died directly of Covid-19 rather than other factors. About 120,000 people in the U.S. have died of the coronavirus so far, according to the CDC’s official count.

Aides have also discussed narrowing the mission of the agency or trying to embed more political appointees within it, according to interviews with 10 current and former senior administration officials and Republicans close to the White House.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I would argue that under the Trump administration many people who once trusted the competence and apolitical nature of the CDC no longer have any confidence in them.
that's what i said.

Not that some Republicans and Independents and classical liberals trust the CDC either,


Messonnier subsequently no longer appeared at White House briefings on COVID-19.
Messonier never appeared at White House briefings. I'm not defending the Trump administration, just pointing out bunk i have come across before and looked up. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/biden-video-on-trump-silencing-expert/


yes people are not trusting the CDC because they really screwed up the early tests and everyone blamed Trump unfairly for it, when he had nothing to do with some lab tech messing up and the agency not checking. and because people (of all political bents) are arguing about how deaths are being counted.

But that doesn't mean they are going to trust WHO. WHO hasnt been helpful at all (to America) in this pandemic. WHO said not to instill travel bans, which every country ignored and eventually did. WHO said not to use masks because it didnt want to upset underdeveloped countries. WHO didnt push a hard line with China early on to find out what was really happening (not that i blame them, if you upset China they will never release any info in the future) etc.

and Redfield and Messioner are political appointees under Trump and they aren't pushing Trumps alleged agenda, so .... people need to stop believing MSM and SM (social media) more.
https://www.americanoversight.org/document/cdc-titles-and-resumes-of-political-appointees
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
But that doesn't mean they are going to trust WHO. WHO hasnt been helpful at all (to America) in this pandemic. WHO said not to instill travel bans, which every country ignored and eventually did. WHO said not to use masks because it didnt want to upset underdeveloped countries. WHO didnt push a hard line with China early on to find out what was really happening (not that i blame them, if you upset China they will never release any info in the future) etc.
You do not have evidence that travel bans do anything (except very early on).
You do not have evidence that mask use in the general population does a net good.
You do not have evidence that what happened in China is different from what was reported.

You do not have evidence that the WHO has been avoidably wrong.

The WHO advised in January to track travelers, educate them about symptoms, and follow up when they develop any.
The WHO published a working test mid-January.
The WHO advised building up testing capacity, and contact tracing capacity.
This advice has not been helpful to the USA because the USA did not implement it when other countries did.

There is nobody who had better advice.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
people need to stop believing MSM and SM (social media) more.

I trust the Mainstream Media generally, with exceptions for those outlets that repeatedly misinform without issuing corrections. Why do you feel that "people need to stop believing MSM"? I realize that websites like Infowars also push people not to believe the press that reports on what the administration officials, experts, scientists and doctors are saying, as a means to create a distrust of Authority/Expertise, I cannot imagine why anyone would throw out a blanket statement like that without evidence or a persuasive argument.
 
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