Langley AFB video on Reddit & Twitter [Kite]

[jarlrmai]

Article:

Section 101.13 forbids the operation of a moored balloon or kite (i) less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud, (ii) more than 500 feet above the surface of the earth, (iii) from an area where the ground visibility is less than three miles, or (iv) within five miles of the boundary of any airport.

Source: https://pilotinstitute.com/part-101/

That said, the kite would be below and to the side of aircraft coming in to land, so it's hardly a hazard.

Until it breaks free or accidentally released.

 

[FatPhil]

Article:

Section 101.13 forbids the operation of a moored balloon or kite (i) less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud, (ii) more than 500 feet above the surface of the earth, (iii) from an area where the ground visibility is less than three miles, or (iv) within five miles of the boundary of any airport.

Source: https://pilotinstitute.com/part-101/

That said, the kite would be below and to the side of aircraft coming in to land, so it's hardly a hazard.

The thing that perturbs me most is that it was at night time, and he seems just as much in violation of:

§ 101.17 Lighting and marking requirements.

(a) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite, between sunset and sunrise unless the balloon or kite, and its mooring lines, are lighted so as to give a visual warning equal to that required for obstructions to air navigation in the FAA publication "Obstruction Marking and Lighting".

(b) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite between sunrise and sunset unless its mooring lines have colored pennants or streamers attached at not more than 50 foot intervals beginning at 150 feet above the surface of the earth and visible for at least one mile.

-- https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-F/part-101
Merely having at least 7 items of flare does not seem to be enough to be to code.

@JMartJr : can you eyeball the altitude, because he might also have just confessed to violating this as well:

§ 101.15 Notice requirements.

No person may operate an unshielded moored balloon or kite more than 150 feet above the surface of the earth unless, at least 24 hours before beginning the operation, he gives the following information to the FAA ATC facility that is nearest to the place of intended operation:

(a) The names and addresses of the owners and operators.
(b) The size of the balloon or the size and weight of the kite.
(c) The location of the operation.
(d) The height above the surface of the earth at which the balloon or kite is to be operated.
(e) The date, time, and duration of the operation.

-- ibid.

 

[Mendel]

Until it breaks free or accidentally released.

Then it would no longer be moored, and rule doesn't apply.
Also, it wouldn't remain in the vicinity of the airport for long in that case.
Kites are typically not that heavy, so they're not much of a hazard to aviation to begin with.

 

[Mendel]

Merely having at least 7 items of flare does not seem to be enough to be to code.

If he's limiting the kite to 150ft, the lighting requirement doesn't apply.

 

[FatPhil]

If he's limiting the kite to 150ft, the lighting requirement doesn't apply.

Yes, that's what the "@JMartJr : can you eyeball the altitude" part of my comment was addressing.

 

[JMartJr]

@JMartJr : can you eyeball the altitude, because he might also have just confessed to violating this as well:

My impression is that he is not very high, I'd bet money on under 500 feet and would best-guess maybe 150-200. (Someone flying a kite to put on a show, such as using leds at night, does not normally go for the "fly it way up there" approach, as the higher you fly, the smaller and less impressive the show is!)

Worth noting that I fly a similar kite-and tail on 250# to 500# (breaking strength) line, depending on wind and what is near the top of the line bag. (That is over kill on line strength, but as line wears, or at knots, the line strength is less than rated, and as long as there is wind to lift the weight of line might as well use too strong rather than risking not-strong-enough!). That is normally sold in lengths of 250 feet to 500 feet. While it is possible to get longer line that's what is usual from most retailers, rolled onto a "halo spool" or other winder.

But even with 500' of line, you don't always put all the line out, and if you do the kite is not straight up! The line goes out at an angle that means the altitude is les than the line length, and there is catenary (sag) in the line that shortens it's effective length a bit.

Flying similar kites, I get the best show at about 100-150 feet up, though might go higher at n event with a crowded sky or to get smooth winds if there was a lot of ground turbulence.

Kites are typically not that heavy, so they're not much of a hazard to aviation to begin with.

This kite is not very heavy, though it contains a hard rechargeable battery weighing maybe a quarter pound, (the tail also has a smaller battery), and lengths of wire connecting that to the lights, and of course the line goes with the kite above wherever it breaks. Not the sort of thing I'd want to get sucked into an engine, or wrapped around a prop. For example:

https://thebalisun.com/bali-reviews-aviation-safety-after-kite-causes-tourist-helicopter-crash/

Top officials in Bali have spoken out about their commitment to improving aviation safety after a helicopter carrying tourists on a scenic flight over Uluwatu crashed on Friday, 17th July.

While none of the passengers were injured in the incident, the situation has prompted leaders to revisit aviation safety policies and identify areas for improvement.
The helicopter involved in Friday's crash got into trouble when the rotor became caught in kite strings.

This month marks the start of kite-flying season in Bali, and while there are laws in place to prevent people from flying kites too high or around areas used for aviation purposes, many people still send their kites into the sky in these zones.

It's fair to note that traditional Balinese kites can be pretty big, and images I have seen of the incident show a very heavy monofilament line. But then, line used to fly this led kite in the video is substantially bigger than what most folks probably think of when they think of "kite string."

There must be FAA rules about this.

Skip this part if you don't want a humorous kite anecdote related to FAA rules. At one point I was employed to fly what was then one of the three-way-tied kites for largest in the world, and we were flying at a private plane airport on Long Island which had been closed for the day for a balloon festival. Even though the airport was closed, the FAA had some qualms about flying a kite there, but since it was in the middle of a balloon festival they agreed that we could fly, but asked that we hang some orange flagging tape on the kite just to be on the safe side. So that weekend, before flying, we dutifully and solemnly tied a six foot length of orange flagging tape to a huge American flag measuring 130 by 80 feet, just to make sure any pilot coming into the closed airport for some reason would notice it.

Spoiler

 

[Mendel]

This kite is not very heavy, though it contains a hard rechargeable battery weighing maybe a quarter pound,

a pigeon weighs half a pound and more

(the tail also has a smaller battery), and lengths of wire connecting that to the lights, and of course the line goes with the kite above wherever it breaks. Not the sort of thing I'd want to get sucked into an engine,

not going to be a problem

or wrapped around a prop.

not going to be a problem, except maaaaaaybe with an adjustable prop, and even then it's not going to be a crash landing

For example:

https://thebalisun.com/bali-reviews-aviation-safety-after-kite-causes-tourist-helicopter-crash/

Top officials in Bali have spoken out about their commitment to improving aviation safety after a helicopter carrying tourists on a scenic flight over Uluwatu crashed on Friday, 17th July.

While none of the passengers were injured in the incident, the situation has prompted leaders to revisit aviation safety policies and identify areas for improvement.
The helicopter involved in Friday's crash got into trouble when the rotor became caught in kite strings.

This month marks the start of kite-flying season in Bali, and while there are laws in place to prevent people from flying kites too high or around areas used for aviation purposes, many people still send their kites into the sky in these zones.

It's fair to note that traditional Balinese kites can be pretty big, and images I have seen of the incident show a very heavy monofilament line. But then, line used to fly this led kite in the video is substantially bigger than what most folks probably think of when they think of "kite string."

Helicopters can fly low anywhere, so the distance to the airport does not really matter. In the Bali incident, the picture shows that the line got tangled in the rotor control rods, which would have made the helicopter uncontrollable. (Hopefully there's going to be an accident report.)

(via https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/402635 )

Spoiler: twitter source

Source: https://x.com/GerryS/status/1814235038193487896

So it's not just birds that are more dangerous to aviation than UAPs, it's also kites!

 

[JMartJr]

So it's not just birds that are more dangerous to aviation than UAPs, it's also kites!

Should probably mention the potential for trouble when a pilot, approaching or leaving an airport, is suddenly confronted with something on or near their flight path, and has to decide in fractions of a second what to do about it. Unknown stuff that might need to be dodged seems to me to be a sufficient hazard that restricting kites and balloons around airports is fully justified.

 

[Mendel]

Should probably mention the potential for trouble when a pilot, approaching or leaving an airport, is suddenly confronted with something on or near their flight path, and has to decide in fractions of a second what to do about it. Unknown stuff that might need to be dodged seems to me to be a sufficient hazard that restricting kites and balloons around airports is fully justified.

Yes.

In practical terms, the regulations are made for laypeople who do not understand glide-slopes (nor do they need to). Aircraft landing at Langley AFB on a 3⁰ glide slope would be 500 ft up as they pass near Messick point, and would hardly notice a kite anchored at 150 ft off to the side.

But the regulations have to delineate a safety zone in simple terms, so for hazards that could fly at up to 500 ft, 5 miles it is.

If they're kite-surfing on that lake, I expect they have some sort of arrangement with the people at the airport.

 

[JMartJr]

If they're kite-surfing on that lake, I expect they have some sort of arrangement with the people at the airport.

Or possibly are just ignoring the regulations, and being ignored -- kite surfing lines run about 65 t0 100 feet (so the kites would normally be lower than that, see Post #46, though surfing kites can fly at a high angle and often get a "altitude boost" when the surfer jumps, pic below) so they may just be too low to have brought attention to themselves, unless they were to fly right off the end of the runway... would radar pick them up that low?

 

[Duke]

WW2Or possibly are just ignoring the regulations, and being ignored -- kite surfing lines run about 65 t0 100 feet (so the kites would normally be lower than that, see Post #46, though surfing kites can fly at a high angle and often get a "altitude boost" when the surfer jumps, pic below) so they may just be too low to have brought attention to themselves, unless they were to fly right off the end of the runway... would radar pick them up that low?

IView attachment 72535

Doubtful. In addition to probably being too low, what on kite surfers or their kit would geneate radar returns? The small amount of metal on their tow bar/risers? Harness/belt? Don't think the board, kite, or its lines would geneate returns, same with the actual surfer.

 

[JMartJr]

what on kite surfers or their kit would geneate radar returns?

Not sure anything would on standard setups, though my knowledge of what would generate a radar return is minimal! Some of them now have a "hydrofoil" fin attached to the board, which is sometimes made of carbon laminate, aluminum or, I'm told, steel. Presumably the later two would possibly show up if a jump was high enough, even if the former didn't.

But for standard kite surfing, yeah, I don't know that they'd show up on radar at all.