PCWilliams
Senior Member.
I mean, why don't the government also randomly sample all the cats in Los Angeles to ensure none of them are government spy cats?
Okay ... coffee out the nose ... that right there was funny!
I mean, why don't the government also randomly sample all the cats in Los Angeles to ensure none of them are government spy cats?
Your questions are reasonable. However, these questions that you are asking, you should have thought about before believing in chemtrails. Its like you started with your conclusion first, based on suspicion, faith and intuition, and then came up with the questions for others to answer.
I am find myself surprised that you fell into the chemtrail hoax. You understand that contrails can vary, you know that they can persist, and you admit there is no actual evidence for chemtrails, other than suspicion and what people propose.
What is your opinion on Will Thomas, the person who really ran with chemtrails and turned it into a for profit conspiracy?
Reminds me of the "clock phenomenon", where people interpret the repeated observations of certain times as some kind of sign.
They ask, "How many times do you look at your digital clock and see times like 11:11, 1:11, 10:10, 12:12, 1:23, etc.?"
My real turning point was when I dove into Congressional hearings and US Law . . . Wow scared the crap out of me and I found out things I would have never thought possible . . .
For me the time I notice most is 3:14
It's not just confirmation bias, it's "priming". My mind is predisposed to notice 3.14 due to my interest in math.
I'm also greatly predisposed to notice contrails, black lines in the sky, sidewalk gum, and now, unfortunately, suspiciously attentive cats.
George, you do have resources much closer to the issue than the information and resources you're currently using. I'll give you two: Pilots and air traffic controllers.
Pilots would know best if there was some strange, unknown substance coming from their aircraft or there was some strange equipment strapped to their aircraft or if there was anything out of the ordinary happening with their aircraft.
Air traffic controllers talk to tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of pilots every day. If pilots suspected something was amiss, they would inform ATC, it would be recorded on ATC tapes.
Both these groups are out there and available for commentary. There are over half a million certified pilots and about 15,000 air traffic controllers.
Like what? There's a lot of misconceptions going around based on those things. Like the government being able to perform tests on your without your knowledge, and "Chemtrails" being banned, "geoengineering" being "admitted", etc.
I have talked to several pilots . . . the controller not so much . . . I found the pilots of multiengine commercial grade aircraft are not aware of the contrail status of their craft except in rare situations and then it means nothing to their schedule, safety, or workload . . . just a fact of getting from one place to another . . . they are only interested in the fact that their fuel is loaded and the engines are performing properly . . . they do a preflight and look to see if anything could delay or cancel their flight plans . . . They as a class of individuals are not aware of the fuel additives or intricate mechanical specifications or modifications on their craft . . . they have never been asked to reduce the number, frequency, or persistence of contrails . . .
4. Are thereunidentified Aircraft that fly daily which the public has no information about their mission,goals, flight path, altitude or purpose? . . . Yes
5. Do these unidentified Aircraft sometime leave persistentTrails? . . . Yes
I have talked to several pilots . . . the controller not so much . . . I found the pilots of multiengine commercial grade aircraft are not aware of the contrail status of their craft except in rare situations and then it means nothing to their schedule, safety, or workload . . . just a fact of getting from one place to another . . . they are only interested in the fact that their fuel is loaded and the engines are performing properly . . . they do a preflight and look to see if anything could delay or cancel their flight plans . . . They as a class of individuals are not aware of the fuel additives or intricate mechanical specifications or modifications on their craft . . . they have never been asked to reduce the number, frequency, or persistence of contrails . . .
Well the one that shocked me first and before I found anything else was the following . . .
OLD CODE: PUBLIC LAW 95-79 [P.L. 95-79] TITLE 50, CHAPTER 32, SECTION 1520 "CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WARFARE PROGRAM" The use of human subjects will be allowed for the testing of chemical and biological agents by the U.S. Department of Defense, accounting to Congressional committees with respect to the experiments and studies." The Secretary of Defense [may] conduct tests and experiments involving the use of chemical and biological [warfare] agents on civilian populations [within the United States]." SOURCE- Public Law 95-79, Title VIII, Sec. 808, July 30, 1977, 91 Stat. 334. In U.S. Statutes-at-Large, Vol. 91, page 334, you will find Public Law 95-79. Public Law 97-375, title II, Sec. 203(a)(1), Dec. 21, 1982, 96 Stat. 1882. In U.S. Statutes-at-Large, Vol. 96, page 1882, you will find Public Law 97-375.
This was only repealed in 1997 . . .
Section 1520. Repealed. Pub. L. 105-85, Div. A, Title X, Sec. 1078(G), Nov. 18, 1997, 111 Stat. 1916, And Pub. L. 105-277, Div. I, Title Vi, Sec. 601, Oct. 21, 1998, 112 Stat. 2681-886 . . . http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/50/32
(with exceptions, requiring informed consent)(a) Prohibited activities
The Secretary of Defense may not conduct (directly or by contract) -
(1) any test or experiment involving the use of a chemical agent or biological agent on a civilian population; or
(2) any other testing of a chemical agent or biological agenton human subjects.
Your #4 and #5 seem to suggest you think it's coming from secret unmarked aircraft.
So which theory are you suggesting here? A) Minor change in commercial fuel, or B) wholesale direct spraying by a secret fleet of unmarked tankers?
Well no, why should they be thinking of their contrails, when that is a natural result of flying aircraft at those altitudes. Besides, you already said that contrails can vary and persist anyways.
And yes, they do have to know a fair amount about how the mechanical specifications of an aircraft. One can not get type rated as a captain, without a lengthy oral exam over those specifications and systems, and that is before an aircraft flight test, which will always simulate an emergency of some kind, on any particular system.
They do not just let someone have a type rating on an aircraft and put them in the left seat, unless they can show a high level of knowledge of that aircraft, its systems and those specifications/limitations on its performance.
I am guessing that you do not have any photos at all of your chemtrail planes, do you? Its been 14 years since Will Thomas starting pimping chemtrails to sell books. You would think that at some point, someone would have had a good photograph of one
I am aware of how the government works. . . I worked for them for 30 years. . . I would call it covering you rear end from liability and criminal prosecution for past sins that were revealed publicly in 1994 in Congressional Hearings. . . which had details of aerial dispersal of Zinc Cadmium Sulfide over a large region of the US. . . Just to name one category of activity. . .
Actually, both are possible. . . .I feel there are multiple missions and goals. . . governmental, International and commercial or private objectives. . . within the
geoengineering community if you will the use of commercial air with the high efficiency engines through policy to not to mitigate persistent contrails alone may be enough to experiment with global dimming. . . another strategy which could be simultaneous with the first is to increase the amount of sulfur compounds in the stratosphere via spiking jet fuel with enough sulfur to make a difference but not change performance characteristics. . . Would be some where around 1% of the fuel
volume . . . Still another strategy is a few modified decommissioned aircraft to dump a bolus of particulates, aerosols, or gases in areas where the prevailing winds and jet streams can disperse them. ..
Many smaller regional experimentations can be ongoing as well. . .
How are they covering themselves by taking something that was legal, and making it illegal, and then doing it? Surely it would be better to leave it legal?
So you think the evidence indicates that lots of different types of operations are going on?
Seems a bit vague - basically "something" is happening, that might be connected with more people noticing contrails? Is that about it?
Do you think there is any evidence that fuel is being spiked? If so, do you think the goal is to produce more contrails, or to distributed some substance?
Do you think there's any evidence supporting the "few modified decommissioned aircraft" being responsible for the uptick in contrail sightings?
What is a decommissioned aircraft? If it is out of commission, how can it be flying?
This is like Roxy Lopez claim that the stored and disassembled aircraft in Marana, are secret chemtrail planes.
And again, the chemtrail hoax has been going on for 14+ years. Is there a single photo of a chemplane?
Previously out of service and/or mothballed aircraft . . . refurbished and flown again . . . they have been used for firefighting and contraband . . . Air America in years past for example. . .
Previously out of service and/or mothballed aircraft . . . refurbished and flown again . . . they have been used for firefighting and contraband . . . Air America in years past for example. . .
So you think the evidence indicates that lots of different types of operations are going on?
Seems a bit vague - basically "something" is happening, that might be connected with more people noticing contrails? Is that about it?
Do you think there is any evidence that fuel is being spiked? If so, do you think the goal is to produce more contrails, or to distributed some substance?
Do you think there's any evidence supporting the "few modified decommissioned aircraft" being responsible for the uptick in contrail sightings?
You think there are secret unregistered planes operating in the United States? And nobody has ever spotted one?
Yes, civil aircraft, and there are many photographs of those. They are not decommissioned, they were retired from the military and sold off. I happen to have flown some. Do you consider firefighting aircraft to be part of chemtrails? They do drop chemicals...
Again, where are photographs of aircraft? Can you find a single picture of an aircraft that you deem to be suspicious?
I have seen some photos that look rather interesting but could not or would not venture a guess regarding their mission . . . as I have said aerosol injection need not be visible . . . and there are plenty of flights each day that the public has no information about regarding their altitude, direction, or purpose . . .
Anything is possible. How likely do you think it it?
If you were to bet $100, what odds would you want? You think an even bet would likely make you money? Or would you ask for 10:1? Would you give me favorable odds?
Well, natural aerosol injection need not be visible either...
But where does your belief originate? If not because of the visible trails...what? Why do you think airplanes are spraying anything? You have said that when "they spray"...it may not increase the amount/concentration of whatever they are spraying...and one doesn't need to SEE anything..so, what are the symptoms? The contrail cirrus? increased air traffic? Claims about "geoengineering" you have read about online?
George, are you going to tell these nice people that you also classify fire fighting/defolients/insect control as "chemtrails"?
I ask because I'm curious...are these procedures the same as "aerosol injection" or are the classified differently...by you?
This is my personal definition . . .
Chemtrailsare: particulates, aerosols, and othersubstances released at altitude (usually by aircraft) and without the consent orknowledge ofthe vast majority of the population for purposes the people are not aware ofand for goals they may or may not agree with. The trails may or may not be visible and they may or may not bevisualized by radar or other technologies (i.e. lasers). When seen from the ground, at altitudeor from space they may appear similar topersistent contrails. NOTE: Chemtrails ineffect are indistinguishable from and are sometimes actually contrails.
This is my personal definition . . . NOTE: Chemtrails in effect are indistinguishable from and are sometimes actually contrails.
Flight Controllers are aware of military flights, blocked flights and International Weapons Observation Flights I am sure but . . .
And are you aware that aerosols and similar particles, generally DO NOT show up on radar? Its for the same reason that clouds and fog do not show up either. But that insects and birds can...
Flight Controllers are aware of:
• Military flights? In general, agreed.
• What is a "blocked flight"? Do you mean aircraft flying block altitudes?
Flight Controllers are aware of:
• Military flights? In general, agreed.
• What is a "blocked flight"? Do you mean aircraft flying block altitudes?
• International Weapons Observation Flights? What is this?
George, if chemtrails are indistinguishable from contrails, then chemtrails are contrails.
Well, natural aerosol injection need not be visible either...
But where does your belief originate? If not because of the visible trails...what? Why do you think airplanes are spraying anything? You have said that when "they spray"...it may not increase the amount/concentration of whatever they are spraying...and one doesn't need to SEE anything..so, what are the symptoms? The contrail cirrus? increased air traffic? Claims about "geoengineering" you have read about online?
George, are you going to tell these nice people that you also classify fire fighting/defolients/insect control as "chemtrails"?
I ask because I'm curious...are these procedures the same as "aerosol injection" or are the classified differently...by you?
One can say that. . . Since most "persistent trails" are from high efficiency jet engines which through their lower exhaust temperatures and higher relative humidity produce trails in air that previously would not support persistent trails . . . the jury is still out on whether they produce more cirrus cloud banks. . . .but because they are more likely to exist there are more of them and thus a higher probability to become clouds. . .
One can say that. . .
Chemtrails in effect are indistinguishable from and are sometimes actually contrails.