Charlie Wiser
Senior Member.
Okay, who did this? 
Four Corners - Large Disk Seen From Private Plane at FL210 [Irrigation Circles]
- Thread starter Mick West
- Start date
Giddierone
Senior Member.
Looks like you have to go back to early 2017 for the circles and nearby field colours to match the photo. They didn't look anything like the photo at any time in 2021.
19 Jan 2017
EDIT: either side of Jan 2017 the circles are different. So I wonder if the exact flight that the photo was taken from can now be pinned down?
19 Jan 2017
EDIT: either side of Jan 2017 the circles are different. So I wonder if the exact flight that the photo was taken from can now be pinned down?
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I've noticed that the location of the irrigation circles is very close to Schreiver AFB - isn't that where David Grusch was stationed?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HzNQj8JJLnivkZpv5
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HzNQj8JJLnivkZpv5
deirdre
Senior Member.
Article: David C. Grusch
....
September 2011 – December 2013, Intelligence Flight Commander, 3d Space Experimentation Squadron, Schriever AFB, CO (USAF Active Duty)
FatPhil
Senior Member.
Never thought about this before, and I think it's worth having an intuitive feel for why your number is correct.
We know the sun subtends about half a degree, which is 1/120 of a radian, and the small angle approximation says that sin or tan of that angle will also be 1/120.
The largest circle you can completely obscure with a typical plane (737/A320) is probably about 6-7 metres diameter, where the body meets the wings.
In order to not cast a shadow, the plane, and therefore that maximal disk must be smaller than the sun.
Therefore the shadow will be nothing but penumbral at anything above 120 * (6 or 7) m ~= 800m ~= 2600'.
Number checks out - good insight - thanks!
Ann K
Senior Member.
From the air, a pilot in that area should be familiar with the marks of center-pivot irrigation. In natural color, which I assume would make the "dark" circle green, it would be obvious. Rendering it in black and white was, I think, a deliberate choice in order to invent a story, though that could have been done by anyone, not necessarily the pilot.
John J.
Senior Member.
Good to know the USAF is experimenting with 3d space, 2 dimensional space must be very limiting.
That said, the illusion created by the 2d irrigation circles, of a disc casting a shadow below, is sort of fun.
Not quite conclusive evidence of alien visitation, though.
NorCal Dave
Senior Member.
And the Immaculate Constellation file was located in a Schreiver AFB file according to Mathew Brown. SE Colorado is a regular hot bed of high strangeness. How long before they pivot from UFO to alien crop circles?
The plot thickens!
MyMatesBrainwashed
Senior Member
I totally agree.
But in a lot of these cases, we give the benefit of doubt about the misidentification. We are all human.
But we have a case here where it's hard to believe that the person who ACTUALLY saw it misidentified it.
Lue can't really hide behind other people here.
NorCal Dave
Senior Member.
I noticed a weird thing while searching on Google maps. The color of the circles would completely change just based on the level of zoom I was using. Here are some in Nevada (41.756038, -118.210014), note the brown ones change with a bit of zoom:
I don't know if it's the various layers from different years combined or what. Same circles, same spot just one click on the zoom wheel and they go from brown to green. Plus, Lue's photo has clearly been manipulated, at the very least made B&W. Nobody in 2021 was taking B&W photos out of their airplane.
EDIT: Looking at it more, it appears Lue's photo may have a bit of color? It's definitely fuzzy. Just a thought, but seeing @jdog photos from "Digital Globe WorldView-2 (WV 2) satellite (via ESRI's World Imagery map...", is it possible the original was never a photo from a plane? Someone was fooling around online and "found" this UFO, made a screen shot and muddied the image a bit to help with the notion:
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PublicStranger
Active Member
I'm curious as to whether the photo has further manipulation to it in order to exaggerate the optical illusion. I imagine it would be difficult to procure the illusion of a floating irrigation circle over another like that naturally.
dead foot4
Member
I'm salty I didn't keep looking further east in Colorado. I was so close to the region lmfao.Well done sir!!!
Of course, it's closer to f'ing Kansas than the 4 corners but hey, what's a couple hundred miles. I'm off to the McMinnville UFO festival in a couple of weeks, where Lue is a featured speaker. There's a panel Q&A, maybe I'll take your photos with me
dead foot4
Member
Seems like someone was trolling Lue more than anything
Giddierone
Senior Member.
I thought it was a colour photo also. The landscape appears pretty monochromatic in satellite photos.
Calter
Senior Member.
Lue has responded to the debunk on this tweet.
Source: https://x.com/LueElizondo/status/1918309243041522153
He could have said "I don't know what this is, the pilot didn't know what this is, and while it might have been something mundane, it is not a good thing that the pilot has nowhere to report this kind of stuff". But no, he leaned into the UFO and now everyone else is stupid for missing his larger point.
It's also insane that he got the picture that same day and decided to present it??? Like, he says this is "one of many, many, many incidents involving commercial pilots" yet the only real picture he has is one he got the same day by a random pilot? You'd think the dude would be swimming in these kind of photographs by now after years of being essentially a champion for this cause.
Source: https://x.com/LueElizondo/status/1918309243041522153
He seems to be going for the "I never said I think this is legit", but that's hard to believe when he described it as a "lenticular object casting a large shadow", "silver", "600-1000 feet in diameter". That is as close to describing a flying saucer as "a large hairy beast walking on two feet" is to describing Big Foot.External Quote:
He could have said "I don't know what this is, the pilot didn't know what this is, and while it might have been something mundane, it is not a good thing that the pilot has nowhere to report this kind of stuff". But no, he leaned into the UFO and now everyone else is stupid for missing his larger point.
It's also insane that he got the picture that same day and decided to present it??? Like, he says this is "one of many, many, many incidents involving commercial pilots" yet the only real picture he has is one he got the same day by a random pilot? You'd think the dude would be swimming in these kind of photographs by now after years of being essentially a champion for this cause.
dead foot4
Member
Just an objectively horrible, tone-deaf reply. This is how you kill any lasting semblance of legitimacy. You shouldn't get defensive cause you peddled out completely unvetted dogshit in an extremely formal setting to a large audience. Dude should be embarrassed. I got to imagine the rest of that panel is really upset with him at this point in time. All that work and all anyone can talk about is Lues fake UFO lmao.
Do we really need a federal Department of Pareidolia?
James Elkins II
New Member
Luey has been a Grifter Since about Day 1. He got Popular because of Joe Rogan and other podcasts and then became even more of a Pro Grifter. He might as well be Traveling to County Fairs as an Act all this summer. LOL. I am Baffled how with all the photographic technology we have, how almost every so called crappy picture or video of a UFO Saucer is a Fuzzy & Grainy. These pics/videos, etc. Just Terrible. It's Obviously just "Two Circular Water Reservoirs." (This definitely hurts Lue's Credibility.)
So I would say its basically like a small group of interconnected true believers and others with some possibly less than honest intentions, who continue to promote a "Whirlwind of Tall tales, Fabrication and Secondhand or Third-hand Re-retellings." They may have Misinterpreted things that other people have said, or they may have just fallen into the influence of what these folks have been telling them.
Of course the True Blue Believer about UFO's thinks that there is a Nefarious government conspiracy to hide "Real Evidence" of E.T. Aliens. When the actual conspiracy is probably being carried out by a group of UFO true believers to get the government involved in the business of investigating aliens. In Political Jargon, a "Self-Licking Ice Cream Cone," a non-productive self-perpetuating system that has no purpose other than to sustain its own Existence.
So I would say its basically like a small group of interconnected true believers and others with some possibly less than honest intentions, who continue to promote a "Whirlwind of Tall tales, Fabrication and Secondhand or Third-hand Re-retellings." They may have Misinterpreted things that other people have said, or they may have just fallen into the influence of what these folks have been telling them.
Of course the True Blue Believer about UFO's thinks that there is a Nefarious government conspiracy to hide "Real Evidence" of E.T. Aliens. When the actual conspiracy is probably being carried out by a group of UFO true believers to get the government involved in the business of investigating aliens. In Political Jargon, a "Self-Licking Ice Cream Cone," a non-productive self-perpetuating system that has no purpose other than to sustain its own Existence.
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MyMatesBrainwashed
Senior Member
Silly me. OF COURSE he can still hide behind other people here.
But there is NO WAY the pilot thought this thing was anomalous. Or else that pilot is a danger to everyone in their plane.
RTM
Senior Member.
Ha, it reminds me of this from dumb and dumber. Someone mentioned earlier about people on reddit accusing Elizondo of being a dis-info agent, isn't this (along with the new Immaculate Conception story) just more proof that what was sold ages ago as a top secret Pentagon program was just little more than enthusiasts messing around in their spare time.Well done sir!!!
Of course, it's closer to f'ing Kansas than the 4 corners but hey, what's a couple hundred miles. I'm off to the McMinnville UFO festival in a couple of weeks, where Lue is a featured speaker. There's a panel Q&A, maybe I'll take your photos with me
MyMatesBrainwashed
Senior Member
Why do we need this? What will it achieve?
Other than having pictures of things that can't be identified because of a lack of data that can sells books.
It's annoying that they have an air of wanting to identify things when all they are interested in is the stuff that's impossible to identify, as though we (humans) should be able to identify EVERYTHING.
All he wants is "credible" people to say they don't know what it is and so OMG what could it be if those guys don't know?!?!
.Instead of spending public money, there could be some sort of website where people could upload images of things they see in the sky that they can't identify and a group of obsessives could pore over those images and try to identify what's actually in those photos. What if something like that were to exist?
MyMatesBrainwashed
Senior Member
It would probably not be deemed credible.Instead of spending public money, there could be some sort of website where people could upload images of things they see in the sky that they can't identify and a group of obsessives could pore over those images and try to identify what's actually in those photos. What if something like that were to exist?
deirdre
Senior Member.
elizondo is used to the taxpayers paying for his hobby, so i think he means he wants the FAA to do it. and then the FAA can coordinate with AARO (because the US Government is known for it's efficient cross agency collaboration skills and unlimited budgets).Instead of spending public money, there could be some sort of website where people could upload images of things they see in the sky that they can't identify and a group of obsessives could pore over those images and try to identify what's actually in those photos. What if something like that were to exist?
NoParty
Senior Member.
This non-apology apology is just soooooo flawed.
How do you write 443 words...but not identify what his "important" image is actually of?!?
And now that he's been intellectually de-pants'd, he tries to gaslight everyone into
believing that he did not present the pic the way he did. Three times he tells us that it
was taken from 21,000 feet, as if he knows that to be true. Is it? Who knows?
A picture of an "innertube" would've proved his point?
His point is that we need a central place to report innertube-level pics?
And what is so damned important about having one central place that every pic
of a Calvine tree ornament & random innertube can be collected?
And even if "central" was important, why not have it housed by UFO fans,
who are invested...and can sort the real UFOs from the innertubes, so that we
don't waste Congress' time (and hurt the UFO cause) with the chaff?
He now says he used the dodgy irrigation circle pic solely to argue that pilots need a place
to report any and everything. But can't they already report anything they want, with
their names or anonymously, to guys like Lue? As, uh, apparently happened in this case.
John J.
Senior Member.
Sort of disagree, if only very mildly (and hey, it's Friday evening, the sun is shining and I'm getting another coffee).
Lue Elizondo has involved himself in the UFO/ UAP "scene" for years.
Whatever his personal beliefs on the subject, he must be aware that many UFO sightings and some claimed photos are the results of misidentification, and others have been demonstrated to be fakes.
Any claim of a sighting of a huge flying disc must be seen as an extraordinary claim, requiring extraordinary evidence before it is accepted. In this instance, the mundane (and literally down-to-earth) explanation for the photo was quickly established, and thanks largely to @MonkeeSage's work, proven beyond reasonable doubt.
I'd guess Lue gets sent lots of photos of claimed UAP, but it's up to him to engage some critical faculties before promoting them himself.
If Lue wants to petition DOGE to fund some quango or department to explain to him that photos of claimed ETI craft have never been shown to depict ETI craft, and normally have mundane explanations (including fakery), that's up to him too.
There's no reason to believe such a body, if it was staffed by people aiming for objectivity and with an understanding of how evidence is scientifically assessed, would come to any different conclusions than those reached by AARO- or often here, for that matter.
American taxpayers (and service providers/ users) might think there are better things to fund.
It didn't take an office full of salaried Air Force officers to explain the photo of a "mothership over Romania" was a ceiling light reflected in a window, or (now) that a huge hovering disc was actually two irrigation circles.
deirdre
Senior Member.
they can report, and should report, anything they see in the sky that may be dangerous to other pilots to the FAA already. obviously if the alien ufo was parked on the ground that would not be a danger, but this one apparently was casting a shadow so flying not on radar.
the FBI is always available too. "If you see something, say something".
NorCal Dave
Senior Member.
Instead of spending public money, there could be some sort of website where people could upload images of things they see in the sky that they can't identify and a group of obsessives could pore over those images and try to identify what's actually in those photos. What if something like that were to exist?
I'll take the bait and say you're talking about here
. But beyond Metabunk, there are numerus sites and places to report UFOs and have been for a long time. MUFON, NUFORC, CUFOS to name just a few. The point Elizondo, Graves and others are making is that the government needs to do it, so as to legitimize the unidentified ones as real UFOs. Thus the stressing of the dangers posed by Like with the chemtrail movement, government involvement legitimizes the claims.
John J.
Senior Member.
AARO encourages civilian pilots to contact air traffic control at the time of the sighting. Reports are then forwarded to AARO via the FAA. I'd guess this arrangement prioritises safety over subsequent issues of identification.
From "How can I share information with AARO or report a UAP?", AARO website https://www.aaro.mil/External Quote:
Not sure if Lue said (or knows) whether the person who took the Four Corners photo notified ATC or FAA.
If they had done, along with accurate location details, any serious subsequent investigation would have established what the "disc" was: This might have called into question the vision/ reliability of the person making the claim, if they were the pilot.
Ann K
Senior Member.
From Elizondo:
At no time in this forum did the pilot face "fierce ridicule" ...although the reaction to Elizondo might be characterized thus, as we have heard his credulous conclusions before. And yet, HE has never learned "not to share", but goes off half-cocked at any gee-whiz image. Methinks he is offended by being debunked, and is trying very hard to pretend that it's the pilot who might be offended. How many hands did this photo go through between the unnamed pilot and his presentation of it, and how many people might therefore have rendered it in monochrome? We don't know, but apparently Elizondo never bothered to ask.External Quote:
Mendel
Senior Member.
The pilots will learn whether it's a cloud, a tennis shoe, a balloon, or that we don't know (probably because of missing data). I can't offhand recall any pilots who misidentified clouds or shoes, so I think Lue is taking the piss here at their expense. "We need to help pilots who can't recognize shoes." Yeah, that should go over well?
It does.
Not really. ATC has radar data that can explain or confirm a report, which helps investigations. It's logical that this data be collected with the report.
It doesn't really concern this case, because it's older than AARO, and didn't have valid data associated with it.
Giddierone
Senior Member.
Video timelapse of "true colour" Sentinel 2 satellite images, starting 19 Jan 2017 (which best fits Elizondo's photo). Image capture dates are in the top right hand corner.
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Mendel
Senior Member.
Not quite.
Article: Center-pivot irrigation (sometimes called central pivot irrigation), also called water-wheel and circle irrigation, is a method of crop irrigation in which equipment rotates around a pivot and crops are watered with sprinklers.
Because center pivot irrigation waters a circle around the center pivot, the crops are planted in a circle.
Article: 
You can also find youtube explainer videos on center pivot irrigation.
Obviously the color of the circle depends on the type of crop, and in which growth phase it is.
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Gary C
Senior Member.
This despite the fact that so many of their fellow UFO adherents also hold the belief that "the government" is involved in the cover up.I'll take the bait and say you're talking about herecrop circles and ceiling lampsUFOs to aviation.
Like with the chemtrail movement, government involvement legitimizes the claims.
AARO is supposed to be an active recorder and investigator of current reports, not just a reviewer of old reports.
At startup of course you have a lot of past reports you can review, to build a database of sightings, their characteristics and what has been learned. Doing a retrospective study was also part of the initial legislation establishing AARO.
The problem is that many in the UFO community have spent their UFO "lives" searching for new ways to interpret old reports, trying to find obscure reports and make mountains out of mole-hills of information. So they keep returning to those old reports with new questions, but without new information there is not much AARO can do with them.
When new reports, like the New Jersey drone swarms, come along and there are no immediate earth-shaking revelations the UFO community goes right back to asking questions about some old sighting. And AARO has to spend time and resources producing yet another "It's probably this but we can't be sure." report.
Mendel
Senior Member.
Note also that https://www.safeaerospace.org/press-releases/uap-witness-campaign-2023 also solicits reports. And then Ryan Graves presented sightings of Starlink flares on social media as UAP, making the pilots look like UFO believers or conspiracy theorists.
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