Four Corners - Large Disk Seen From Private Plane at FL210 [Irrigation Circles]
- Thread starter Mick West
- Start date
Giddierone
Senior Member.
Yeah I was assuming it was exterior mounted, like the small plane has at 01:00 in the pilot video above.
elvenwear
Senior Member.
His next event is in Oregon on 17/5/25 (Next Saturday). No events are booked after this. Source: https://luiselizondo-official.com/event-tickets/
Interestingly, if you try to book tickets, you get this message:
Source: https://www.etix.com/ticket/p/37719...s-elizondo-mcminnville-mcmenamins-hotel-oregoExternal Quote:
What I don't understand is why the event is listed as being at the McMenamins Hotel Oregon and also at McMinnville Community Center. These are separate locations. I think the UFO festival may have multiple locations in McMenamins but I'm not sure. Perhaps the venue location has changed.
External Quote:
NorCal Dave
Senior Member.
I'll file a report from the field next weekend. The Hotel Oregon is the HQ for the event. McMenamins, a chain of pubs, restaurants, bars and hotels in the PNW, created and sponsored the event. The speakers appear at the community center. I ran down the speakers in post #122 on this thread:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/the-metabunk-community.13387/page-4
Be interesting to see if he shows up.
elvenwear
Senior Member.
That's so good. I was hoping that would be possible. I'll be keen to hear your report.
FastIndy
Active Member
I should point out that my calculation neglected the terrain elevation, so FL21 (if that's accurate) would only be ~16k ft AGL, depending on weather conditions at the time.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/fo...at-fl210-irrigation-circles.14173/post-343471
I was dead on on the 2500ft diameter guess...If only talking about the north circle. 2630ft actual diameter for the south circle. The corrected slant range would be ~40.5k ft = (21000 - 5600) / sin(22.3°). Probably the most error prone is the estimate of the angle, that's just a measurement of horizontal vs vertical pixels in the high-res picture of the picture.
As a person who has done GA flying over plenty of rural areas in Kansas, I'll walk through my actual initial impressions of seeing Lue's photo:
T+3s: Wow, what is that?
T+8s: Ah, those are irrigation circles.
Last time I was flying commercial in November I specifically noted hundreds of crop circles and tried to do a little mental guesswork on how much water they were using, and it still got me for the first couple seconds. Of course, after that, it is immediately obvious.
However...
When you're flying, you really only have so much time to devote to looking at one thing. If you're focused on trying to figure out what that thing is, then you're not looking for other aircraft around you, or correcting for your actual fuel burn due to wind, or whatever it is that's immediately relevant to safely flying the airplane. Maybe it was a single-pilot flight with no other crew and they stopped worrying about it at T+5s when other priorities took over and that first look really stuck. Our impression is that they should have been able to recognize what it was based on the photo alone, but the pilot presumably had a real-life look at what they perceived to be a flying object out the window, and as we all know, that changes how subsequent interpretations are made.
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NoParty
Senior Member.
I'll give you $50 if you take that map, complete with the two circles, tilt it appropriately,
desaturate it completely, then ask Lue if the McMinnville Community Center is actually
an 800 foot silver disk floating above the McMenamins Hotel Oregon!
Giddierone
Senior Member.
Or at some point over the last 8 years consulted with another pilot to see if they've ever seen anything similar.
I think Elizondo working "Four Corners" into his description of this event is deliberate as "Four Corners" will sound familiar to those reading about UFO lore. It's like his use of "Cormorant" when attempting to needle Mick on Twitter about seagulls — it's a term laden with references to black project transmedium craft — all is designed to sound plausibly UFOish.
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NorCal Dave
Senior Member.
And let's remember, this was 2 weeks or so before Coulthart's new UFO special, mostly about the 4 corner state of Arizona, was due to air and in which Elizondo figures prominently. A little cross-promotion?
Giddierone
Senior Member.
Definitely. Nothing Elizondo says is by accident. Everything is carefully worded even if it's factually incorrect. It's like he said a UFO was seen over London when in fact it was seen over Edinburgh, Scotland.
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NorCal Dave
Senior Member.
A bit OT, but this one has pretty much run its course for the moment. The above article is yet another example of modern people inferring and attributing vast historical, spiritual, and in this case, intergalactic significance to, often recent, arbitrary human constructs. The "4 Corners" are just a fluke of Congressional whims with some Supreme Court oversight thrown in:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_CornersExternal Quote:
It's a geographically interesting and visually stunning place, but the state borders are only around 185 years old. Do aliens and Skinwalkers even know about these invisible borders?
JMartJr
Senior Member.
The progress in reddit seems to depend on traffic. If a particular post gets enough replies to make it on the main page, it opens the discussion up to passersby with maybe no interest in ufos but knowledge of particulars.
Frex, the Nazca mummies thing got linked to r/archeology and it got some really good replies. I've also seen a radar return question get walked over to r/atc and the conversation improved.
It doesn't happen as often as it should.
Yup. We can't do Scheimpflug calcs but the tilted subject plane and (apparently more) tilted lens/film plane will intersect and increase DOF.At that distance it would probably be hyperfocal even on a telephoto, I think I worked out maybe 200mm FF equivalent, of course we have no idea if the photo has been cropped.
As usual the pilot/photo story doesn't quite add up, there's lots of oddness and points of questioning that might tease out flaws in the story.
In this case however I might feel the proper sceptical community response would be a moderate "open letter" addressed to "Lue's photo pilot and colleagues"
The letter could try to address the issues of giving your photos/sightings to people/groups who always seem to conclude it can't be anything other than aliens (good luck working your way around the phrasing there) and expecting any analysis, who knows your error might end with no analysis and being used to mislead congress!
It should perhaps express that saying you don't know and are not sure are fine, but the best way to get an answer isn't lock your photo behind any one group, but to release what you have publically with as much detail as you can and as has been shown, the crowd will provide the best possible answers and will show working.
I understand why some people might prefer to be behind a proxy
I'm sure @Mick West might be able to express my ramblings much more eloquently
elvenwear
Senior Member.
They are essentially tourists, so I would think that would be on their list of places to visit while in the US.
Why they were buzzing over New Jersey, though, I have no idea.
Charlie Wiser
Senior Member.
"...when I was reviewing the footage" discoveries made so long after the fact that he forgot he took the footage in 2017, not 2021.
Mendel
Senior Member.
which is why, when we analyse something, we try to get the original file with the metadata intact. It's usually more reliable than human memory.
Lue tends to ramble and (even though it may be wrong), 21,000 feet is basically the only concrete value in that list of claims. Basically, I'm saying a possible mundane explanation for the repetition is that Lue wants to make it sound legit and impressive, and his mind just wanders to the only value he has that isn't a range, because he doesn't really have anything else. So perhaps it's just that rather than 21,000 feet actually being important.
I can't think of any reasons why 21,000 feet is important (compared to 18k or 20k, etc), but maybe I'm missing a connection to something.
NorCal Dave
Senior Member.
Just a bit of follow up and context here via a link from Jason Colavito's blog site.
The event where this photo was presented was not, as I thought and maybe others did as well, some sort of congressional hearing. Rather it was a panel and presentation put on by the UAP Disclosure Fund (uapdisclosurefund.org) that invited members of Congress to attend. This group includes Mellon and others in the disclosure field. Elizondo was acting as the moderator.
The official website for the UAP Discloure Fund did note that a "photograph" that was presented has a suggested "conventional origin". Suggested:
https://uapdisclosurefund.org/events/understanding-uap-science
I've just skimmed the first part of Davis's comments, but he does confirm he is one of Grusch's sources, as many of us had suspected.
There entire video(s) may need a separate thread.
The event where this photo was presented was not, as I thought and maybe others did as well, some sort of congressional hearing. Rather it was a panel and presentation put on by the UAP Disclosure Fund (uapdisclosurefund.org) that invited members of Congress to attend. This group includes Mellon and others in the disclosure field. Elizondo was acting as the moderator.
The official website for the UAP Discloure Fund did note that a "photograph" that was presented has a suggested "conventional origin". Suggested:
One can watch the entire Q&A, which according to Colavito, includes Eric Davis explaining to Rep. Burelinson about the 4 types of aliens that regularly visit Earth, like the Greys, the Nordics, reptilians and insectoids. The rest of the Q&A should be entertaining:External Quote:
https://uapdisclosurefund.org/events/understanding-uap-science
I've just skimmed the first part of Davis's comments, but he does confirm he is one of Grusch's sources, as many of us had suspected.
There entire video(s) may need a separate thread.
John J.
Senior Member.
(My emphasis)
Good grief, Nordic aliens?! Grown-up, decent people still believe in this codswallop?
As far as I know, the first reports of "Nordics" were by George Adamski (Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Adamski) although he didn't use that term (Wikipedia, "Nordic aliens", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_aliens).
Adamski was a demonstrated faker of photos of UFOs; his "Venusian scout ships"...
...being made partly from a gas lantern lid of a type sold in the 1930s, including from the Sears & Roebuck catalogue (image at right, below, from my avatar).
It's probable that different production runs or different manufacturers made subtly different variants; the "porthole" spacing in the two examples above are not the same.
The idea that a visiting extraterrestrial creature is not only
(1) essentially 100% human in appearance, albeit (in some claims) taller and more beautiful/ handsome than average,
...but is also
(2) so similar to an idealized (by some) representation of a specific human ethnic/ folk anthropology type that they can receive the same (outmoded) label ("Nordic"),
(3) ...and these supposed extraterrestrial visitors, although first described by the hoaxer Adamski, with significant penetration into popular culture, actually exist,
...and that those in Ufology who use that term are unaware of the problematic use of the term "Nordic" to describe a phenotype (as opposed to a culture and/ or its products, or a geographical area) beggars belief.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlondExternal Quote:
There are tall, blonde people in "Nordic"/ Scandinavian nations, just as there are in other European (and some Asian and North African) countries and in the many nations where Europeans have settled.
There might be a higher proportion of people with blonde hair in northern Europe than elsewhere, but there are lots of ("native") people with brown and black hair, and some with red hair, in those countries too. Along with blonds of modest and medium height.
If we are ever contacted by an ETI that presents itself as human- and particularly, as a particular phenotype/ cultural representation of a specific ethnicity of human- we should be very wary indeed.
Eric Davis should understand this, along with the discredited origins of "Nordic" alien claims.
I am sure he does not mean to promulgate silly stereotypes about what types of people are most "advanced", but he should be embarrassed by his own promotion of this nonsense in light of the evidence.
NorCal Dave
Senior Member.
Unless someone else gets it going, I think a thread for the nonsense that was disseminated at this get-together is needed. I'll try in the morning if no one else does.
John J.
Senior Member.
I'm going way off-topic, but it reminds me of Greek physician and anatomist Galen (130 - 201 AD), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galen
He was a pioneering medical researcher, and was recognised as such, being almost beyond criticism for centuries.
Dissection of human cadavers was forbidden in Galen's time, but he had the important insight that animal studies might apply to humans. However, not all findings in other animals apply to humans:
Prometheus and the Liver through Art and Medicine, 2022, T. Gulik, J. Rosmalen, M. Gulik, B. Rosmalen, Chapter 6 THE LIVER IN THE THE MIDDLE AGES, ACCORDING TO GALEN https://www.degruyterbrill.com/document/doi/10.1515/9789048557417-007/html?lang=enExternal Quote:
For centuries, the liver was shown- and believed- to have 5 lobes because an authoritative source, Galen, said it had 5 lobes:
Human livers actually have 4 lobes, and from a superficial examination of the upper surfaces might be described as having only 2,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiverExternal Quote:
Similarly, UFO enthusiasts, convinced of the validity of their "old masters" like Adamski, replicate details from his descriptions/ pictures- including the handle attachment slots on the gas lantern lid he used- without question, as demonstrated by @JMartJr.
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Giddierone
Senior Member.
One more example, from a book by a woman who believes she is an alien commander who crashed in Roswell in 1947 and is now stranded on earth. Four corners is on the Navigation screen of the ship.
Ann K
Senior Member.
The six-fingered hands are a nice touch.
Giddierone
Senior Member.
Humm...but Elizondo's "Four Corners area" UFO appears to be dead center on that alien spaceship map...coincidence?
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FatPhil
Senior Member.
Those are apparently "my ship's controls" - did she herself have six fingers?The six-fingered hands are a nice touch.
Gaspa
Senior Member.
Most people don't talk about this, but after you learn to open your third eye, there is another level that can be achieved (if you pay enough, of course) where you grow your sixth finger. /s /scientologyfeelings
JMartJr
Senior Member.
Proof that aliens are created by AI?The six-fingered hands are a nice touch.
John J.
Senior Member.
The six-fingered hands are a nice touch.
Oh yea of little faith!
The obvious explanation is that she was Anne Boleyn in a previous life, before becoming an alien spaceship pilot.
Well, if Anne Boleyn had six fingers as claimed.
Fin
Senior Member
Slightly off-topic but not completely, I'm pretty sure one of Adamski's more well known videos of a "morphing saucer" was also a clever & baffling example of a perspective illusion. I played around with it in Blender to better illustrate my idea about what's actually happening:
Source: https://youtu.be/uMjkJhYwKnw?si=zSQOUDY9kr06ofSJ
Fin
Senior Member
AFAIK these are also his and are more obvious examples of the same sort of method - something stuck onto a window/screen door while he films from behind it and moves his camera around to create the illusion, albeit a very bad one. We can even see the left edge of the window/door in one of the clips
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwvbkeMldLg
This clip features a lady who says she was there for the filming of the video I discussed in my previous post above. She even mentions the balls that retract and extend under the UFO, and that some well dressed aliens made a personal visit beforehand!
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppC6wiuq7fI
Z.W. Wolf
Senior Member.
Talked about this here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ca...in-water-hypothesis.12572/page-15#post-288935
All of this 8mm footage used a cutout pasted to a pane of glass. All you've got to do is wiggle the pane this way and that. The bright light of the sky makes the cutouts appear as featureless silhouettes.
The retractable "pods"...
It's very simple but clever. There are two cutouts. One is pasted to the backside of a sheet of glass. There's another fixed cutout behind the front one, with some kind of spacer between the cutouts... maybe small wooden dowels. The second cutout may be about one inch behind the first one? The pods are on the rear cutout.
When you tilt the top of edge of the pane back and the bottom edge forward, more of the bottom of the rear cutout comes into view.
The cutouts are fixed to each other and to the glass but, due to parallax effects, you get this neat-o dropping the landing gear special effect.
What are the cutouts made of? I'd use sheets of balsa wood. Hobbyists used balsa wood for all sorts of things in the '60's. The sheets are thin, strong and easy to carve.
But it could be card stock, or who knows what... Something thin and rigid.
All of this 8mm footage used a cutout pasted to a pane of glass. All you've got to do is wiggle the pane this way and that. The bright light of the sky makes the cutouts appear as featureless silhouettes.
The retractable "pods"...
It's very simple but clever. There are two cutouts. One is pasted to the backside of a sheet of glass. There's another fixed cutout behind the front one, with some kind of spacer between the cutouts... maybe small wooden dowels. The second cutout may be about one inch behind the first one? The pods are on the rear cutout.
When you tilt the top of edge of the pane back and the bottom edge forward, more of the bottom of the rear cutout comes into view.
The cutouts are fixed to each other and to the glass but, due to parallax effects, you get this neat-o dropping the landing gear special effect.
What are the cutouts made of? I'd use sheets of balsa wood. Hobbyists used balsa wood for all sorts of things in the '60's. The sheets are thin, strong and easy to carve.
But it could be card stock, or who knows what... Something thin and rigid.
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John J.
Senior Member.
Wow, didn't know about this!
...And more (somewhat credulous) discussion here, "The Hidden Truth" website https://thehiddentruth.co/1965-the-silver-springs-ufo-footage-va-167/External Quote:
1965: The Silver Springs UFO Footage
[BACK]
Posted On: October 6, 2022
On February 26th, 1965, sometime between 3 and 4 p.m. an unidentified craft of the famous type photographed by George Adamski in 1952 (and others subsequently) described a series of maneuvers over Madeleine Rodeffer's front yard, retracting and lowering one of its three pods and making a gentle humming and swishing sound as it did so.
George Adamski began filming the craft with Madeleine's 8mm camera. "It looked blackish-brown or gray-ish-brown at times," Madeleine advised, "but when it came in close it looked greenish and blueish, and it looked aluminum: it depended on which way it was tilting. Then at one point it actually stood absolutely still between the bottom of the steps and the driveway."
(The famous "Venusian scout ship" image at right isn't from the film).
As well as the demonstration provided by @Fin, there remains the problem that Orthon et al. built their spaceships out of gas lantern lids, which probably voids the original Sears warranty.
JMartJr
Senior Member.
It seems we do not have a thread on Adamski. Given the pervasiveness of his UFO model as an influence on what flying saucers should look like, Should we have such a thread? Perhaps moving the Adamski discussion here into its own thread?
@Mick West, @Trailblazer, @Landru?
@Mick West, @Trailblazer, @Landru?
Giddierone
Senior Member.
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