Do you believe in any paranormal or supernatural abilities?

Which of these do you believe exists, in the supernatural sense?

  • Psychokinesis - the ability to move or manipulate objects with the mind

    Votes: 7 11.5%
  • Extra Sensory Perception - the ability to gather information without the use of the 5 senses

    Votes: 11 18.0%
  • Telepathy - the ability to communicate with others with the mind

    Votes: 9 14.8%
  • Clairvoyance - the transfer of information without the use of the senses

    Votes: 7 11.5%
  • Pyrokinesis - the ability to ignite or extinguish fires with the mind

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • Psychometry - ability to psychically “read” information from objects

    Votes: 5 8.2%
  • Precognition - the ability to foresee events.

    Votes: 9 14.8%
  • Bilocation - ability to be in two places at the same time

    Votes: 4 6.6%
  • Postcognition - ability to see an event after it has occurred

    Votes: 5 8.2%
  • Astral Projection - the ability to travel distances with the mind alone

    Votes: 6 9.8%
  • Reincarnation - being born again after death

    Votes: 7 11.5%
  • Afterlife: Survival of consciousness after permanent bodily death

    Votes: 12 19.7%
  • Near-death experiences of a none-hallucinating nature

    Votes: 9 14.8%
  • None of the above

    Votes: 45 73.8%

  • Total voters
    61

Leifer

Senior Member.
Implanted memories, and focussing on any lucky coincidence. They basically (deliberately or not) schooled him into believing he was reincarnated.

Parents feed their children's interests. The child does not drive to air-shows and air museums on his own....the parents take them there.
Nor does the child somehow contact the media, proclaiming his supernatural abilities or claims of a re-incarnated life. Those are the parents at work.

Balloon Boy

 

RolandD

Active Member
I, for one, don't believe in anything supernatural or extraterrestrial, but I am willing to believe if presented with definitive proof.
 

Dan Wilson

Senior Member.
Near death experiences of children. . . Any thoughts?


I'd honestly love to believe that things like this were true. In most cases, however, I'm forced to go by the best explanation possible which is when your brain regains consciousness and tries to make sense of what just happened, it fills in memories where there were blanks based on your beliefs and perceptions. Not much different than a dream. Conclusions like this give me anxiety, which is why I'd like to see cases that are inexplicable. Some seem to be, particularly out-of-body experiences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience#Afterlife_viewpoints

Many view the NDE as the precursor to an afterlife experience, claiming that the NDE cannot be adequately explained by physiological or psychological causes, and that the phenomenon demonstrates that human consciousness can function independently of brain activity.[81] Many NDE-accounts seem to include elements which, according to several theorists, can only be explained by an out-of-body consciousness. Michael Sabom reports a woman who underwent surgery for an aneurysm, and who reported an out-of-body experience that she claimed continued through a brief period of the absence of any EEG activity. [82][82] In another account, from a prospective Dutch NDE study,[17] a nurse removed the dentures of an unconscious heart attack victim, and was identified by him as the one who removed them, although patient was in a coma and undergoing cardio-pulmonary resuscitation at the time.

But I haven't looked to deeply into these cases, I kind of just prefer to have faith that there is something to it rather than dig for a scientific answer in this case.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
See, your attachment of 'in the supernatural sense' makes it impossible for me to take that poll. I believe there could be a scientific basis for limited feats of extra-sensory perception / telepathy / precognition, but to assume that possibility requires the 'supernatural' and wouldn't just be an as of yet misunderstood aspect of nature is what attaches such a stigma to researching these phenomenon.
I don't believe in 'psychics' in the traditional sense by any stretch, but it's understood the earths electromagnetic field is passing through us all every moment of every day, and that the machinations of the brain are largely electric. Studies have been run which suggest when two people are isolated from the earths electromagnetic field and 'hooked up' to an artificial field, limited 'shared sensations' may be experienced, such as an idle test-subjects brain reacting to their partnering test-subject being abruptly flashed with an over-bright light. I can't say I 'believe' this is true, but I'm not opposed to the idea that the electromagnetic field of the earth could perhaps carry brain activity away from us like wind can carry scents/plant particles/ect., and that some folks might be more sensitive to such things. It's unlikely, and a massive majority of people who claim psychic ability are almost certainly BS'ing, but it still seems worth researching.

As for precognition, there's been a neat study conducted (though it's endured some criticism) which shows volunteers a random series of more or less plain images, with the occasional piece of hardcore pornography randomly spliced in. The test subjects look at the picture a few seconds, click it to go to the next, and then look at that picture a few seconds, ect. Ect. The study seemed to suggest that in many cases, the brain began responding to the pornographic images -before- they were displayed, many test subjects experiencing an anticipatory reaction to stimulus they'd not yet received.

As for life after death, a persons memories and personality do not survive the death of the brain. Say what you will about universal energy or the unencumbered soul, but I've seen/worked with enough people suffering from brain injuries to know that damage to the brain alone can often completely erase or rewrite a persons memories/personality. Death of the brain is the end of any personal existence. If something within you goes on elsewhere in spite of that, which I highly doubt to the point of dismissing, it's most definitely not your personal consciousness. That's far too demonstrably vulnerable for anyone to argue otherwise.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You'd think if there was such evidence, then the tests could easily be replicated, and the issue would be settled. Why do you think the experiments tend to be one-off?
 

Grieves

Senior Member
So far as I know, most are still being run, especially the studies in regards to electromagnetic fields.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1816310/pg1

I'm not sure about this website itself, I've just had trouble with straight up YouTube links on this particular machine. On the above linked site though there is a YouTube video worth taking a look at, which extrapolates on the theory. Again, I'm not saying what's suggested is truth, I'm just saying it's worth considering from a scientific perspective.

http://www.forteantimes.com/strangedays/science/4729/precognition_and_porn.html
Here's some info on the other experiment.
 

jaydeehess

Senior Member.
I chose "none of the above" simply because I have not seen good evidence that any actually exist.
I cannot believe simply because some say it is so.
That is not to say that I will believe this way about all or any of those topics in the future if sufficient reason to change my opinion is produced.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
I chose "none of the above" simply because I have not seen good evidence that any actually exist.
I cannot believe simply because some say it is so.
That is not to say that I will believe this way about all or any of those topics in the future if sufficient reason to change my opinion is produced.


Like many Humans, I too would "wish" or "hope" for some sort of paranormal....but alas, I tend to rely on science, and the scientific method.

Over the centuries MANY very clever people have developed ways to fool an audience, using what is (nowadays) called "magic", or "prestidigitation" (Close-Up hand manipulation....many of the best artists of this skill exist today).

Some "magicians" rely on huge stage "events"....all designed to distract....because, THAT is the basic method OF the "magician"....distraction.

I will say no more except....the next time you see a large production that involves "magic", pay close attention to the music that usually accompanies the act.....there are CUES in the music, to help all the assistants during the performance.

(Sorry if this bursts anyone's bubbles, but I thought it is inherently obvious.....)
 
I used to read Fortean Times on a monthly basis when I was younger, before the internet replaced it as my primary source of odd shit. I remember them having the occasional article on NDE's and I'm sure that at least once they mentioned how interested surgical staff would place objects above room fixtures in the operating theater. If a patient reported that they had experienced the commonly relayed sensation of floating above their body, pre-resussitation, they would quiz them in order to ascertain whether or not they had seen the items. Apparently there was a fairly high instance of the patients being able to recall and describe them. Back then I was pretty convinced by this but now I'm fairly skeptical on the matter.

I guess that's a close as I've ever been to believing any on the list above. If I had to pick one to develop after drinking a barrel of toxic waste, however, I'd probably have to go with pyrokinesis please.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Apparently there was a fairly high instance of the patients being able to recall and describe them.

I did a little look around the internet and found nothing to corroborate this. I think it was suggested as a test, but either not done, or didn't work. Even one example of it working would be interesting - but obviously hard to verify.
 
It struck me that it would also probably be against regulations too, not to mention a little unethical. Like a lot of Fortean phenomena I would imagine it was based on anecdotal evidence and little else.
I did a quick check too and whilst I couldn't find anything about NDE's and the test I found this about sleep paralysis which is, arguably, the same thing:

(4) In a study of 264 subjects with sleep paralysis[3], Giorgio Buzzi and Fabio Cirignotta found that about 11% of their subjects (28 people) "viewed themselves lying on the bed, generally from a location above the bed" (Buzzi 2116). As Buzzi points out, however, these out-of-body experiences often included false perceptions of the physical environment:


I invited these people to do the following simple reality tests: trying to identify objects put in unusual places; checking the time on the clock; and focusing on a detail of the scene, and comparing it with reality.

I received a feedback [sic] from five individuals. Objects put in unusual places (eg, on top of the wardrobe) were never identified during out-of-body experiences. Clocks also proved to be unreliable: a woman with nightly episodes of sleep paralysis had two out-of-body experiences in the same night, and for each the clock indicated an impossible time.... Finally, in all cases but one, some slight but important differences in the details were noted: "I looked at 'me' sleeping peacefully in the bed while I wandered about. Trouble is the 'me' in the bed was wearing long johns ... I have never worn such a thing" (Buzzi 2116-2117).



Buzzi concludes that because these experiences contained out-of-body discrepancies and failed his other 'reality tests,' his subjects' out-of-body imagery must have been derived from memory and imagination rather than from the physical environment at the time (2117).


http://infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html

It suggests a similar test but one which the people experiencing it failed. I wonder if the FT story is some kind of analogue but with a supernatural confirming spin?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
It struck me that it would also probably be against regulations too, not to mention a little unethical. Like a lot of Fortean phenomena I would imagine it was based on anecdotal evidence and little else.
I did a quick check too and whilst I couldn't find anything about NDE's and the test I found this about sleep paralysis which is, arguably, the same thing:

(4) In a study of 264 subjects with sleep paralysis[3], Giorgio Buzzi and Fabio Cirignotta found that about 11% of their subjects (28 people) "viewed themselves lying on the bed, generally from a location above the bed" (Buzzi 2116). As Buzzi points out, however, these out-of-body experiences often included false perceptions of the physical environment:


I invited these people to do the following simple reality tests: trying to identify objects put in unusual places; checking the time on the clock; and focusing on a detail of the scene, and comparing it with reality.

I received a feedback [sic] from five individuals. Objects put in unusual places (eg, on top of the wardrobe) were never identified during out-of-body experiences. Clocks also proved to be unreliable: a woman with nightly episodes of sleep paralysis had two out-of-body experiences in the same night, and for each the clock indicated an impossible time.... Finally, in all cases but one, some slight but important differences in the details were noted: "I looked at 'me' sleeping peacefully in the bed while I wandered about. Trouble is the 'me' in the bed was wearing long johns ... I have never worn such a thing" (Buzzi 2116-2117).


Buzzi concludes that because these experiences contained out-of-body discrepancies and failed his other 'reality tests,' his subjects' out-of-body imagery must have been derived from memory and imagination rather than from the physical environment at the time (2117).


http://infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html

It suggests a similar test but one which the people experiencing it failed. I wonder if the FT story is some kind of analogue but with a supernatural confirming spin?
someone posted some links somewhere on MB about tests. maybe try OBE or out of body experience too. ?
 

David Coulter

Senior Member.
I can't remember the exact source but I read an article some time ago that summarized NDE's from people that fell or lost a parachute and survived relatively uninjured. The point being that these people were nowhere near dead while they were falling. The author argued that NDE's are simply the brain's fear/stress reaction to an extreme threat. Probably drawing all blood to the brain and shutting down all peripheral systems, even vision. Effectively a diving response.
 

jaydeehess

Senior Member.
There's unconscious, then there's comatose. It possible to still see and retain a memory when unconscious. Surgery patients under general anesthesia have reported conversations between the OR staff.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
There's unconscious, then there's comatose. It possible to still see and retain a memory when unconscious. Surgery patients under general anesthesia have reported conversations between the OR staff.
yea, I was gonna say "or hear" you cant see if your eyes are closed but you cant close your ears even if you're unconscious. (this is a horrible example...like those tapes people listen to while they sleep to 'hypnotize themselves') maybe ?
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
I wont argue. But when I awoke in the hospital for the debrief I gave information I could not physically have seen. I was apparently the first one blown unconscious and thrown a few yards away by the blast. I remember waking in Musgrave Park hospital and describing events physically I could not have seen. Maybe you are correct and my mind has built a construct however..

I got shot in the chest in 1996 when I was in the Israeli Army: The near-death-experience was when four guys tried to run with me on a stretcher without doing the straps up first, in the dark...
 

Seeker

New Member
You'd think if there was such evidence, then the tests could easily be replicated, and the issue would be settled. Why do you think the experiments tend to be one-off?

Because they are not scalable and not reliable. If they were they would be repeated and would have similar results.
 

Seeker

New Member
I avoid threads like this as I have had a "paranormal" experience. If you don't mind I will change names.
I was quite young (17, nearly 18) and a newly qualified medic and out on patrol in Northern Ireland. We walked around a corner and, bang, the point guy went down. We took positions, but if you know Belfast there can be thousands of shooter points. It was a trap, we all knew it. Pve idiot here decided to run for for it, I was the medic and I wanted to save my friend. What followed was as massive BOOOOOMMM.

My memory is entirely different to what I could have seen. I remember laying on the floor, but I remember Sgt Jones and Cpl Smith running around. I remember getting up and helping the guys. But I didnt. Apparently I got up walked a while and collapsed due to the 6 inch piece of shrapnel in my head. I had helped, but my mind had warped my reality.

I agree that this may not be 'paranormal' in the spiritual/intangible sense but more like your brain's interpretation of the events under extreme stress and trauma. I have friends who have reported having paranormal experiences, so it is possible. Like another poster mentioned, these may just be phenomena that science has not yet caught up with or they could simply be spiritual.
 

Existo

Member
Did anyone watch Stan Lees superhumans? (Hope I'm remembering that correctly). There was a gentleman who supposedly moved small objects with his mind, a pen balanced on a wine glass is the one demonstration I remember.

Mind you, not exactly a thorough scientific investigation. I don't know how to link/embed videos sorry.

A lot of the super powers on there were easily explained. Magnetic skin being one of them. But the telekinetic guy had me wondering
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
They're idea of "scientific testing" in that show was to hook Bavli up to an EEG.:rolleyes: Oooo... science. Does Bavli use his own props? Did his crew set the stage before filming?

One of my favourite examples of "testing" mentalist claims, Geller vs Carson on the Tonight Show.

 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It's just a type of illusion referred to as PK. Search for PK Magic if you want to figure out how it's done (or see other people demonstrating it without claiming to be supernatural).

I've got some PK tricks. I can stop people's watches, move coins remotely. I'm not incredibly good at it, but professional magicians obviously can do impressive stuff.

Here's a trick you can buy on the the internet
 

Existo

Member
That's exactly it. I Really need to research more I guess :)

Penn and teller are great, from "bull$%*&" to "fool us" and everything way before those shows.

Guess I'm just a sucker for magicians.
 

Existo

Member
On a personal level of believing/experiencing such things, I have only one tale.

I only got a mobile phone a few years ago (insert hermit/antisocial reasons here). But whenever I needed to get in touch with someone i would just walk around randomly and within an hour I would run into whomever was needed. Was delighted to see it appear in the movie version of Odd Thomas by dean Koontz.

Came to realize that me and my friends were very predictable and lived in a small town. Walk around for an hour and you'll see everyone.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
Penn and teller are great... Guess I'm just a sucker for magicians.

Aren't we all. :) Giving away a magic trick would typically ruin the fun and entertainment value. Except when you're dealing with Penn & Teller. My favourite example of this:

The seven basic principles of magic...


Just to circle back to the OP. Nothing in that list has survived scientific scrutiny. They mostly turn out to be parlour tricks that exploit our cognitive biases.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Penn and teller are great, from "bull$%*&" to "fool us" and everything way before those shows.

I have always been a huge fan of "magic" ('prestidigitation') and am proud to say that I am also a huge fan of the duo "Penn & Teller" (I caught one of their off-off Broadway shows back in the 1980s....before they were famous.

("Mofo", the psychic gorilla!! Anyone who knows this bit, will know. Of course, Teller was the "voice"...off-stage, remote microphone).
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Aren't we all. :) Giving away a magic trick would typically ruin the fun and entertainment value. Except when you're dealing with Penn & Teller. My favourite example of this:

The seven basic principles of magic...


Just to circle back to the OP. Nothing in that list has survived scientific scrutiny. They mostly turn out to be parlour tricks that exploit our cognitive biases.

OK.....just (one of) the darnedest BEST things that P & T do: ("Cups and Balls")

 
Not all people are "susceptible" to hypnosis .....as why public on-stage hypnotists usually filter out subjects (people) whom they determine will not work, in their act, keeping those people that will act-out under hypnosis.
Derren Brown is very good at reading these people....and pointing the willing subjects to the power of suggestion.


I personally believe that Derren Brown is living proof that people in both small and large groups (even very large groups of hundreads) as well as individuals can not only be conditioned to act in a way that normally wouild never act but that people can be conditioned to do this much more easily and quicker then most would admit to. I'd say that the episode with him at the mall making nearly every shopper immediately raise their hands is living proof that the masses can be conditioned to act without thinking. This is significant because it shows that it is not that hard to condition the public to effectively sleep walk through life and ignore the really important stuff like the security theatre going on at airports and other areas of travel by the TSA.

If you have the time and the resources as the Fedral government does then you can condition the public to accept just about anything so long as its done incrimentally over time be it the implimentation of a wealth robbing income tax or ammenist for illegals so as to import a massive voting block under the guiise of "its for the children".
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I personally believe that Derren Brown is living proof that people in both small and large groups (even very large groups of hundreads) as well as individuals can not only be conditioned to act in a way that normally wouild never act but that people can be conditioned to do this much more easily and quicker then most would admit to. I'd say that the episode with him at the mall making nearly every shopper immediately raise their hands is living proof that the masses can be conditioned to act without thinking. .

Derren Brown is in the Uri Geller school of magic - he's mostly using tricks and illusions, but pretends they are real. The mall episode was likely done with a large number of actors, and then a few regular folk followed along - just your basic peer-pressure or Asch conformity.

 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Not really. While he does claim to be a debunker, he also makes some fairly specific claims to magic. Did you see his lottery prediction? It was just fake video, but he passed it off as a form of magic.

Oh. Well, he IS a performer (after all). I respected him AS a performer, but when any of them use their skills ("them" meaning a magician, or prestidigator) and attempt to say that their "tricks" are "real magic"? Then, I lose respect.

THIS is partly why I have profound respect for "Penn & Teller":
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
I've never seen Derren brown ever claim to use magic. i thought the whole point was that he says he is using parlour tricks and he has no psychic abilities etc.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I've never seen Derren brown ever claim to use magic. i thought the whole point was that he says he is using parlour tricks and he has no psychic abilities etc.

He claims to use "tricks" but does not tell you what they are, and inflates their efficacy so they can only be classed as magic.

With the lottery prediction, he said he would reveal how he did it, and then spent an entire episode full of BS, ending up claiming it was "the wisdom of crowds". It wasn't. It was camera trickery. He lied.
 
Last edited:

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Interesting this thread has resurfaced. Me thinks there will never be scientifically, repeatable and verifiable evidence of the paranormal. However, just like religion it is a human belief. And just like religion a huge number of people will believe it exists without such evidence. For those of us that have witnessed unexplainable coincidences, alleged miracles, and altered states of awareness it is hard to dismiss.
 
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
Mendel Poll Finds Many Believe QAnon And Other Conspiracy Theories General Discussion 13
Rory Author of "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible"? Quotes Debunked 1
T Is it less rational to believe in several conspiracy theories than only one? Conspiracy Theories 31
Mick West TFTRH #30 - Tom: 9/11 - Why We Believe and Change Tales From the Rabbit Hole Podcast 9
Steve Funk Does Guy McPherson believe in chemtrails? [No] Contrails and Chemtrails 21
Leifer Erin Brokovich does not believe in chemtrails. Contrails and Chemtrails 64
Leifer What to do when family members believe in bunk ? General Discussion 273
Pete Tar Debunking just makes people believe the bunk - 'motivated reason' Practical Debunking 67
Mick West Greek Survey suggest 1 in 3 Greeks believe they are being sprayed Contrails and Chemtrails 3
Jimbo 12 of the Weirder Things Americans Still Believe Conspiracy Theories 31
Leifer Citizen Journalism...what to believe ? General Discussion 0
Mat Reasons to believe in Chemtrails Contrails and Chemtrails 9
FreiZeitGeist FB: Airline Pilots Who Believe that Chemtrails are Real Contrails and Chemtrails 28
F4Jock Why do people believe? General Discussion 83
Dan Wilson Why do people believe conspiracies? General Discussion 86
George B Poll . . .What makes people who believe in the Chemtrail conspiracy tick. . ?. . Choo Contrails and Chemtrails 76
George B I am a Chemtrail Advocate . . . I believe there is an Aerosol Injection Program Contrails and Chemtrails 1316
Mick West Debunked: "A conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists" (Hoover) Quotes Debunked 116
tryblinking How many people actually believe in 'chemtrails'? Contrails and Chemtrails 2
Pogopoint99 Does Rosalind Peterson believe in chemtrails? Contrails and Chemtrails 17
Steve Andrews How I came to believe and disbelieve in chemtrails Escaping The Rabbit Hole 6
Steve Andrews Chemtrails and other conspiracy theories I don't believe Conspiracy Theories 3
Leifer Jeffery Vallance, art exibit, paranormal UFOs, Aliens, Monsters, and the Paranormal 0
Related Articles























Related Articles

Top