Debunked: "Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism"

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Notice the words, DID.

A lot of the speculation is based on folks thinking they have some 'revealed' knowledge from Tesla
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Bastards!
 

Curiosity

Member
I don't know where this snippet of information comes from, but, assuming it is 100% accurate, it proves absolutely nothing.
Basic logic is crucial.
Example: The truth is in the 1970s The Chicago Cubs DID lose many baseball games.
This does not indicate they are NOT losing baseball games at this very moment.

Some further compelling evidence: http://www.carlisle.army.mil/USAWC/parameters/Articles/98spring/thomas.htm


These would fall into the category of psychotronic weapons, which Putin referred to in the original article I referenced.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Good call. I had too much faith in PBS. Their Ombudsman has been contacted.

Can you:

A) Use "reply with quote", so we know who you are replying to
B) but [EX]...[/EX] tags around external content, so we know what is external, and what is you.
 
U

Unregistered degotype

Guest
Tesla ? He talked to Pigeons didn't he ?

Those who are entrenched in the old physics model will not delve into new science.

Cairen seems to dismiss mountains of research that is ongoing into the most eccentric claims that are attributed to Tesla. Knowledge requires having a mind that is keenly interested in learning. Experience shows that there are very few individuals who have an aptitude for scientific exploration that is not tethered to existing paradigms. There are a whole host of reasons for this that are way too involved to go into here.

It is clear that nuclear weapons are antiquated. We have and so do other Nations far more potent weapons. If you haven't been paying attention, You might still believe that Nuclear weapons are the most destructive weapons on Earth.

If you have been paying attention, you will be met with scorn, derision and unwavering skepticism by many of the old school .

.. Did u know that Tesla was a recluse who had a pigeon fetish ?

HAARP IS TESLA, therefore HAARP is impossible, it is a facility based upon speculation, fantasy and zany ideas such as lifting the atmosphere. It can't really cause an energetic multiplication of power. That's like saying you can bounce a radio wave off of the Moon, pure silliness !
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Those who are entrenched in the old physics model will not delve into new science.

We'd be very happy to if there was any evidence of this "new science" doing anything.

Is there a physical demonstration of ANY of the principles of this "new science"? Any experiment that can be done to verify any aspect of it?
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.

Do you actually have a point to make other than insinuating those who question claims are close-minded and will never be privy to the 'new' knowledge that the more credulous are because they aren't 'entrenched in the old physics'?
When was physics replaced, and what with?

No-one thinks HAARP is impossible, it clearly exists. Some claims made about it however are physically impossible based on the technology that it runs on, unless you are claiming there's super-secret technology being employed - in which case, what is it and how do you know about it?
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
..Knowledge requires having a mind that is keenly interested in learning....

Implying no-one is learning except those who blindly accept something because it's new and sounds cool?
What is this 'learning' to you and how does it differ differ to what is being done by those you dismiss?


It is clear that nuclear weapons are antiquated. We have and so do other Nations far more potent weapons. If you haven't been paying attention, You might still believe that Nuclear weapons are the most destructive weapons on Earth.

If you have been paying attention, you will be met with scorn, derision and unwavering skepticism by many of the old school .

...

What is the most destructive weapon on Earth then?
Nuclear weapons are pretty hard-core. The only thing that exceeds that is nature.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Yep, it does. I got here by way of chasing down nonsense about the BP blowout. I started running into the chem trail folks there---in addition to other things they are spraying Corexit. I started running into HAARP and some of the other nonsense
 

Mark Wittkowski

New Member
This epitomizes the problem I have with this site, despite the value it does bring unearthing much truth. In your efforts, and your lapdog core followers, to debunk every conspiracy that comes along you often generalize while misleading the public on "parts" of the problems that are real that we as tenets of this great planet must deal with!

Regardless of our efforts to create a black and white reality, in vain, this is rarely the case.

Forget for a moment about the elitist cabal that's running the world economy and the U.S. monetary system, job market, etc. into the ground in their ongoing efforts to control and/or own the vast majority of wealth in this world...

For decades the US military-industrial complex has shown time and again that military might and development, right along with their actual uses, puts the environment and people of this planet so far down the list of concerns it seems at times...we're not even on the list.

The case of HAARP is a perfect example. First, you act as if Former Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen is the only one ever to share the truth about HAARP. Far from the truth, see just a few quotes below.

You also mention his comments were "off the cuff." History has shown countless times that those live "off the cuff" comments are the perfect scenario for "slips ups" and people in authority to share more than they had intended.

What Cohen said, was clear and straight forward along with being a SEPARATE thought and mention moving on from the previously mentioned, false threats. Those are real also, but he mentioned several REAL threats as he again says openly here:

"So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important."

"There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least."

"devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races"

"and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops."

"Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves."

NOT THAT THEY ARE SPREADING RUMORS ABOUT THE USE OF ECO-TERRORISM, THAT "OTHERS ARE ENGAGING IN."
------------------------------------------------------------


I don't know anything about this domain other than this is a good list of the patents for HAARP and it's true intentions.

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/links-to-geoengineering-patents/

Here's a few quotes:

"Thus, this invention provides the ability to put unprecedented amounts of power in the Earth's atmosphere at strategic locations and to maintain the power injection level particularly if random pulsing is employed, in a manner far more precise and better controlled than heretofore accomplished by the prior art, particularly by detonation of nuclear devices of various yields at various altitudes... "

"...it is possible not only to interfere with third party communications but to take advantage of one or more such beams to carry out a communications network even though the rest of the world's communications are disrupted. Put another way, what is used to disrupt another's communications can be employed by one knowledgeable of this invention as a communication network at the same time."

"... large regions of the atmosphere could be lifted to an unexpectedly high altitude so that missiles encounter unexpected and unplanned drag forces with resultant destruction."

"Weather modification is possible by, for example, altering upper atmosphere wind patterns by constructing one or more plumes of atmospheric particles which will act as a lens or focusing device.

"... molecular modifications of the atmosphere can take place so that positive environmental effects can be achieved. Besides actually changing the molecular composition of an atmospheric region, a particular molecule or molecules can be chosen for increased presence. For example, ozone, nitrogen, etc., concentrations in the atmosphere could be artificially increased."

---------------------------------------------------------


Here's a few quotes from one of many enemies of humanity. Oh sure, as of late, he's put on a good face, but lest we forget the countless acts of terrorism and acts against humanity over the decades. I could make a list here of many others just like him, that long ago should have been tried and convicted.

Zbigniew Brzezinski (former National Security Advisory to U.S. President Carter) and J.F. MacDonald (science advisor to U.S. President Johnson and a professor of Geophysics at UCLA), as they wrote about use of power-beaming transmitters for geophysical and environmental warfare. The documents showed how these effects might be caused, and the negative effects on human heath and thinking.

Quotes in a book Brzezinski wrote more than twenty-five years ago while a professor at Columbia University:

"Political strategists are tempted to exploit research on the brain and human behavior. Geophysicist Gordon J.F. MacDonald, a specialist in problems of warfare, says accurately-timed, artificially-excited electronic strokes could lead to a pattern of oscillations that produce relatively high power levels over certain regions of the earth ... in this way one could develop a system that would seriously impair the brain performance of very large populations in selected regions over an extended period"

" ... no matter how deeply disturbing the thought of using the environment to manipulate behavior for national advantages, to some, the technology permitting such use will very probably develop within the next few decades."

"Unhindered by the restraints of traditional liberal values, this elite would not hesitate to achieve its political ends by using the latest modern techniques for influencing public behavior and keeping society under close surveillance and control. Technical and scientific momentum would then feed on the situation it exploits,"
Brzezinski predicted.
-------------------------------------------------------------


Physicist Daniel Winter, Ph.D., of Waynesville, North Carolina, said, "HAARP high-frequency emissions can couple with longwave (extremely-low-frequency, or ELF) pulses the Earth grid uses to distribute information as vibrations to synchronize dances of life in the biosphere." He terms this geomagnetic action 'Earth's information bloodstream,' and said it's likely that coupling of HAARP HF (high-frequency) with natural ELF can cause unplanned, unsuspected side effects.
------------------------------------------------------------


David Yarrow of Albany, New York, is a researcher with a background in electronics. He described possible interactions of HAARP radiation with the ionosphere and Earth's magnetic grid: "HAARP will not burn holes in the ionosphere. That is a dangerous understatement of what HAARP's giant gigawatt beam will do. Earth is spinning relative to thin electric shells of the multilayer membrane of ion-o-speres that absorb and shield Earth's surface from intense solar radiation, including charged particle storms in solar winds erupting from the sun. Earth's axial spin means that HAARP -- in a burst lasting more than a few minutes -- will slice through the ionosphere like a microwave knife. This produces not a hole but a long tear -- an incision."
------------------------------------------------------------

As far back as 1958, the chief White House adviser on weather modification, Captain Howard T. Orville, said the U.S. defense department was studying "ways to manipulate the charges of the earth and sky and so affect the weather" by using an electronic beam to ionize or de-ionize the atmosphere over a given area.
------------------------------------------------------------


In 1966, Professor Gordon J. F. MacDonald was associate director of the Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics at the University of California, Los Angeles, and a member of the President's Science Advisory Committee, then later a member of the President's Council on Environmental Quality.

He published papers on the use of environmental-control technologies for the military and made the comment: "The key to geophysical warfare is the identification of environmental instabilities to which the addition of a small amount of energy would release vastly greater amounts of energy. " World-recognized scientist MacDonald shared many ideas for using the environment as a weapon system and contributed much to this direction. He wrote a chapter, "How To Wreck The Environment," for the book Unless Peace Comes, where he describes the use of weather manipulation, climate modification, polar ice cap melting or destabilization, ozone depletion techniques, earthquake engineering, ocean wave control and brain wave manipulation using the planet's energy fields.
------------------------------------------------------------

"For example, while changes in the earth's electric field resulting from a solar flare modulating conductivity may have only a barely detectable effect on meteorology, the situation may be different in regard to electric field changes caused by manmade ionization... " Ionization is what happens when a higher level of power is zapped into atoms and knocks electrons off the atoms. The resulting charged particles are the stuff of HAARP. "One look at the weather should tell us that we are on the wrong path," says Paul Schaefer, on HAARP technologies.
------------------------------------------------------------


Elizabeth Rauscher Ph.D., with a long impressive career in high-energy physics, published in several science journals and books, commented on HAARP. "You're pumping tremendous energy into an extremely delicate molecular configuration that comprises these multi-layers we call the ionosphere."

"The ionosphere is prone to catalytic reactions," she explained, "if a small part is changed, a major change in the ionosphere can happen."
--------------------------------------------------------------


More details right on defense.gov:
http://www.defense.gov/Blog_files/Blog_assets/20100224_AWS_trans.pdf

Regardless of your, at times, vain attempts at debunking nearly everything, things are rarely as they appear on the surface and certainly more entailed than we are often lead by our government and military.

Note: See Operation Popeye - The Vietnam weather manipulation project.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The topic is Cohen's quote. Not what other people have speculated about.

New topics in new threads please.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Mick, there's not a single bit of information that doesn't support that Cohen meant WHAT he said, not some theory he was being facetious or sarcastic.

No of it supports it, as none of it is substantiated. Patents don't mean anything. Copy and pasting things from Nick Begich is not evidence or anything other than Begich's speculations.

The capabilities of HAARP are well known. It cannot do anything significant.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Those who want to better understand the truth will look it over. Those who want to blindly follow naysayers, because it fits better within their psyche will not.

Again, as I wrote earlier, a "wall of text" that has no focus is not the best way to present an argument.

Focus on details, and allow THOSE to be discussed, issue-by-issue.
 

Mark Wittkowski

New Member
No of it supports it, as none of it is substantiated. Patents don't mean anything. Copy and pasting things from Nick Begich is not evidence or anything other than Begich's speculations.

The capabilities of HAARP are well known. It cannot do anything significant.


Every quote is all over the internet, in books, some in actual video etc. I just used a listing from Begich, strictly because it was easy to find and verify. Collectively they show at the VERY least we do not fully understand the capabilities and absolutely none of the long-term affects of HAARP. I can provide 100 more quotes from reputable authorities, experts, and scientists if you'd like to substantiate my point again...

Cohen, meant EXACTLY what he said! But, judging be the reaction so far, that probably won't go over well here. I will NOT walk on eggshells to protect a sites interests or agenda, not going to happen Mick.

Blindly ignoring possible dangers to humanity, of things like HAARP, are not a good idea for humanity, that I know. My ONLY motivation is simple, collectively we must be AWARE, question what we are told, and think for ourselves WITH regard to our children's future generations...for without this direction and focus, people think things are bad now...we have barely begun to see the true impact, even to date, of allowing the financial cabal, governments and corporate elitist to do too much of whatever the heck they want, for money, without regard of the future of OUR generations and the planet.

Your last comment is opinion, Mick.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
If you are concernced over HAARP's possible adverse effects on the earth, you must freak out when there are auroras or increases in solar wind? Those are hundreds and thousands of times more powerful than HAARP.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
HAARP really isn't the issue here. The issue is what was Cohen talking about. If you disagree with the OP, then write a better analysis. You can't just say "I think HAARP can make earthquakes, so that must be what it's about". How does that fit in the context of what he said?
 

Mark Wittkowski

New Member
It is the opinion of the scientists who work on HAARP.

Would you agree that, given the context, Cohen was talking about imaginary threats? If just partially, then at what point did he stop?

Below my point that "off the cuff" answers in front of a mic, historically, have been a great way to gain insight into truths that people in authority can't or won't come right out and say. We've seen this so many times, years or decades later when these truths or "opps, sorry" are finally admitted.

To answer your question...It was the moment he moved to talking about biological weapons and pathogens, we know for a fact are a real threat. Then, his close just sealed the deal, without any mention of "false scares," "propaganda," etc.

"So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important."

I can not logically see how his comments weren't completely serious. Now, that said, keep in mind it is possible that some of it's intentions (why the patents are important) have yet to be fulfilled, but again like SO many projects like this none of us fully understand the potential future environmetal or socioeconomic impacts.

And, encouraging the masses (your traffic just keeps growing and growing) to ignore real possible dangers and threats from systems and projects like this is wrong Mick. Hey, ultimatly this is your site and you'll do what you want. I just appriciate the opportunity to share a different view.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
To answer your question...It was the moment he moved to talking about biological weapons and pathogens, we know for a fact are a real threat. Then, his close just sealed the deal, without any mention of "false scares," "propaganda," etc.

But he's talking about things that Alvin Toeffler wrote about. He's very clearly just repeating Toefflers items from pages 143-143 of "War and Anti-War". Toeffler is a futurist, he was just speculating about the future.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member

Mark Wittkowski

New Member
But he's talking about things that Alvin Toeffler wrote about. He's very clearly just repeating Toefflers items from pages 143-143 of "War and Anti-War". Toeffler is a futurist, he was just speculating about the future.

Well, I guess to deflect or in some way discredit the claims that most people already know are a threat. It always comes down to, what the heck is he suppose to say?

"Yes, ok ok...along with all the other potential natural, cosmic (solar flares, asteroids, comets...not aliens), nuclear/emp and other threats from other countries...our own government is using systems like HAARP and others as a potential military weapons and maybe we'll learn to better control weather around the world and impact global trends...oh and we really don't have a friggen clue what the actual short or long-term impacts will be on our planet and species."

I don't think so. He could share just as much as he did...maybe too much as far as the powers-that-be think...but as they say, very little in this game happens on accident. If it was said or happened, most likely it was on purpose.
 

Svartbjørn

Senior Member.
In your efforts, and your lapdog core followers, to debunk every conspiracy that comes along

I think this may be where you're having a misunderstanding Mark.. The debunking is restricted to very specific claims, not broad topics or entire conspiracies.. take 9/11 for example... There TONS of threads about claims within the event, everything from remote control aircraft to holographics, to thermite/nanothermite/"military grade thermite" etc.. If you (collective you, not personal you) can provide actual evidence that contradicts the statements made by anyone here, then by all means do so.. but dont think that any one here is just out to say "YEP, you're all a bunch of tinfoil hat wearin loons that need to be locked up."

Ive said this several times.. we LIKE to be wrong, if you can prove ANYONE wrong, then by-god do it! Its how we learn as scientists. Not all of us agree with one another either. There have been several topics that Ive disagreed with several of the posters here that are the "cronies" you mentioned in your post.. Ive agreed with individuals that have taken a contrary stand to several posts and topics made here. The same can be said for quite a number of others as well. If you have evidence and input that broadens our understanding of things, then by all means feel free to post it.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
The debunking is restricted to very specific claims, not broad topics or entire conspiracies
Not to mention, non-bunk stuff usually doesn't get introduced here. because what would be the point. It's a debunking site so people usually introduce topics they consider bunk.
 
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