Debunked: Massive US Senate Document On National And Global Weather Modification

skephu

Senior Member.
Dane Wigington has posted a congressional report on weather modification from 1978:
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/...-on-national-and-global-weather-modification/

It's an interesting document, but Dane cut parts out of it selectively and misleadingly. For example, he shows this part:

a12775c9fbf84e5307203b737cd5e2bc.png

It looks like this part describes facts. But the parts written in smaller letters are in fact quotes from the "Tri-State Natural Weather Association", an organization heavily opposed to cloud seeding. The part that made this clear was omitted by Dane Wigington:
upload_2015-10-16_1-40-52.png

Similarly, Dane shows this section:
b7b27120ee4dc143770481935fd6e6b7.png

Again, it looks like the text starting "There is no question that..." states facts from the document, but in fact these are again only charges from the Tri-State Natural Weather Association:

upload_2015-10-16_1-43-50.png

This page lists a number of other claims made by this Tri-State Natural Weather Association:

f45c461371cb27d7dd4a877224abd839.png

Many of these crazy claims are quite similar to Dane Wigington's charges and claims. Looks like there is nothing new under the sun. By the way, all the text shown above is from a chapter titled "Opposition to weather modification", which says (this part is not shown by Dane):
upload_2015-10-16_1-49-24.png
 

NoParty

Senior Member.

skephu

Senior Member.
The "Tri-State Natural Weather Association", led by Paul Hoke, was actually quite a conspiracy theorist organization. This is an excerpt from Ted Steinberg's book titled "Acts of God: The Unnatural History of Natural Disaster in America":

upload_2015-10-16_13-2-37.png
upload_2015-10-16_13-3-45.png

Basically what Dane Wigington did is that he used quotes from a conspiracist organization to support his own conspiracy theory, while pretending that those quotes are statements of fact from a credible congressional report.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Basically what Dane Wigington did is that he used quotes from a conspiracist organization to support his own conspiracy theory, while pretending that those quotes are statements of fact from a credible congressional report.

There really seems to be no level of dishonesty to which Dane won't stoop to further his "cause". And you just know that these quotes will now take on a life of their own and become attributed to "government officials", and that no chemtrail believer will actually take the trouble to source or fact-check them.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The TSNWA has all the marks of classic conspiratorial thinking back in the 1970s, they even had some kind of world-government takeover with new maps and concentration camps.

Source

Note they said this would happen by 1975 (40 years ago). Pretty much the exact same thing as the Agenda-21 stuff that is being promoted by Alex Jones, etc. They keep predicting it, and it never happens.
 

skephu

Senior Member.
Perhaps Dane Wigington would be interested in this book chapter:

The rise and fall of the science of weather modification by cloud seeding
From the book "Human Impacts on Weather and Climate" by William R. Cotton and Roger A. Pielke.

And within that, the section titled The fall of the science of weather modification by cloud seeding

The chapter clearly describes that while there was a lot of enthusiasm about weather modification by cloud seeding from about the 1940s to the early 1980s, the failures and uncertainties led to huge cuts in the funding, and the field has become insignificant by now. Here's an excerpt from the chapter:

So really, documents from the 1960s and 1970s about weather modification are irrelevant regarding the current state of affairs. It was a blooming field back then but the situation has changed dramatically since then; weather modification activities have been largely abandoned.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
This long 1974 article on the topic of the Cloud Seeding Conspiracy Theory is fascinating in the parallels with the modern chemtrail theory, particularly the Shasta group. There's the sightings of unexplained aircraft, claims that the sky looks different now (no "natural" rain clouds) demands that the local government do something, denials for various agencies, suggestions of chemically testing air and water.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=kYQlAAAAIBAJ&sjid=sPIFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1596,946067
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The "Tri-State Natural Weather Association", led by Paul Hoke, was actually quite a conspiracy theorist organization. This is an excerpt from Ted Steinberg's book titled "Acts of God: The Unnatural History of Natural Disaster in America":

An interesting book. It dates the origins of the conspiracy theory to the drought of 1962
 

Graham2001

Active Member
An interesting book. It dates the origins of the conspiracy theory to the drought of 1962

A question I once asked in relation to TWA800 & 9/11 conspiracy theorists (The first big online conspiracy theories.) was if there was any overlap between the two groups, I'm now wondering if this is the case here, but with the transition period not being well documented online research may be difficult.
 

AumuA

New Member
Wow, you guys seem to have found a proto-chemtrail movement that predates the current movement by 20 years or more. Absolutely fascinating. What's even more interesting is how this information could be used to support either side of the 'debate'. This is coming from someone who used to be more on the believer side, and who is now more on the skeptical side. So, by way of introduction also, hello.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Edmund R. Hill, vice-president of the Tri-State Natural Weather Association (post #7), died in 1988:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=MP0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=5053,2794497&hl=en

upload_2015-10-17_13-12-22.png

upload_2015-10-17_13-11-30.png
upload_2015-10-17_13-12-1.png


According to that, he was quite an academic.

The secretary, William Lewis Kinter, was also a college professor. Seemingly these were educated people. Kinter died in 1995 at the age of 79.

upload_2015-10-17_13-23-43.png

And Paul Hoke died in 2013 at the age of 87.

http://www.bowersoxfuneralhomes.com/obituary/Paul-Guilford-Hoke/St.-Thomas-PA/1198058

upload_2015-10-17_13-28-17.png

I couldn't find much about his more recent activities.
 
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Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
It does seem very odd to me that Edmund Hill was a member of the Pennsylvania Weather Modification Board - which, you would hope, knew about the real science of cloud seeding - and yet at the same time was also a vocal member of the anti-cloud-seeding Tri-State association.

From the 1980 article in post #8:

upload_2015-10-17_13-40-35.png

And yet the vice-president of the association also sat on the very same board!
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It does seem very odd to me that Edmund Hill was a member of the Pennsylvania Weather Modification Board - which, you would hope, knew about the real science of cloud seeding - and yet at the same time was also a vocal member of the anti-cloud-seeding Tri-State association.

From the 1980 article in post #8:

View attachment 15645

And yet the vice-president of the association also sat on the very same board!

If I remember correctly from one of the above stories, that weather modification board was set up at the demand of the farmers to regulate cloud seeding in the area. It rarely met, and never got an application. So really it's just local people with no experience of cloud seeding.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
If I remember correctly from one of the above stories, that weather modification board was set up at the demand of the farmers to regulate cloud seeding in the area. It rarely met, and never got an application. So really it's just local people with no experience of cloud seeding.

Actually it's the paragraph after the one you quoted, last place I looked :)
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
If I remember correctly from one of the above stories, that weather modification board was set up at the demand of the farmers to regulate cloud seeding in the area. It rarely met, and never got an application. So really it's just local people with no experience of cloud seeding.

This is the act that led to the creation of the board:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/US/PDF/1967/0/0449..PDF

upload_2015-10-17_14-2-53.png

Presumably Hill was one of the "three members" in part (5). It still seems strange that someone with a conspiracy-minded view of cloud seeding should be appointed.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The act and the board are essentially a creation by the conspiracy theorists, so it's not that surprising that one of them would be on it.

From the document discussed in the OP:
https://archive.org/stream/weatificat00unit/weatificat00unit_djvu.txt
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Ultimately the driving force behind these particular conspiracies is the vagaries of the weather.

https://books.google.com/books?id=-...ather Association&pg=PA14#v=onepage&q&f=false


When there's a drought, they are convinced that it's a massive government plot to alter the weather. When the drought ends (as they all do) they think their protests have had some effect.

It will be interesting here in California to see how people react to the (hopefully) wet winter. Right now there's one of the first heavy rains of the season rolling through Northern California (thunder and lighting here for the last three hours). Rain all the way up through Shasta.


When you have it fixed in your mind that the weather is being heavily modified, then any weather at all becomes evidence of that modification. No matter that the weather always changes anyway, and that extreme weather is simply something that happens from time to time, the theorist will always attempt to discern some intentional force behind the weather.

With things like farmers and their water, the theory is driven by the severe problems a drought can cause, so once the drought ends, the theory can eventually fade away. But with "chemtrails", there are always going to be contrails, so there's always this visible thing to reinforce the misconception, so it may well have more staying power than these early versions.
 

Steve Funk

Senior Member.
Rose Tayler (Casebeer) has taken this claim to our Local paper, summarizing the claims listed by Skephu in the first post of the thread. If anyone wants to write a reply, here is the newspaper's letters Policy (Requires real name, contact phone and/or email, 300 word limit, deadline, Monday noon.)
 

Attachments

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deirdre

Senior Member.
When there's a drought, they are convinced that it's a massive government plot to alter the weather.
When the drought ends (as they all do) they think their protests have had some effect.
i can't stand it. First they burn 'witches' for causing the droughts
and now they plead for the witches to help them
Vive la progress!!
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Look at the reference to clouds not being like they USED to be! These articles are pure GOLD! They are great to show people who think the whole "chemtrail" thing is NEW!

Yes, it's a fundamental contradiction in the chemtrail theory. You can simultaneously prove it's happening by just "looking up", and the sky has never been natural since 1957.

So what exactly are they comparing it against?

People don't remember things unless they start paying attention to them for some reason. Dane Wigington never noticed contrails until he moved under a busy flight path in Northern California and installed a large whole-house solar system which did not generate as much power as he'd hoped. He searched for something to blame. It's basically the same thing as these farmers searching for something to blame for their failing crops. Look up, see a contrail, and so it begins.
 
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Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
Ultimately the driving force behind these particular conspiracies is the vagaries of the weather.

"Weird weather" seems to be a common complaint in the CT world. I know that Nancy Lieder used it extensively in promoting her "Planet X" story.
 

skephu

Senior Member.
Dane Wigington has posted a video where he argues that weather modification is very different from geoengineering, it is small-scale and harmless, and it is a red herring:

So apparently he understands the difference quite well. But then why has he repeatedly referred to documents about weather modification as proof of geoengineering? Why does he cite weather modification patents all the time? I'm puzzled.
 

MikeG

Senior Member.
Dane Wigington has posted a video where he argues that weather modification is very different from geoengineering, it is small-scale and harmless, and it is a red herring:

So apparently he understands the difference quite well. But then why has he repeatedly referred to documents about weather modification as proof of geoengineering? Why does he cite weather modification patents all the time? I'm puzzled.


Sometimes he simply decides to change his story when the facts just blatantly don't fit.

When he was called out for posting pictures taken from other sources that wrongfully attributed tumors in fish to Fukushima, some of them disappeared from his website.

https://www.metabunk.org/debunked-f...-tumors-in-fish-old-photos.t6957/#post-168558

It is one of the reasons that I think Dane Wigington is more of a calculating person than a deluded one.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
It is one of the reasons that I think Dane Wigington is more of a calculating person than a deluded one.

I think it has to do with the very Human ability to self-delude and compartmentalize information in any way necessary to avoid untenable logical conflicts.
 
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