Debunked: Islamic State (ISIS) orders female circumcision (FGM, Female Genital Mutilation)

Jason

Senior Member
It used to be around that high but enthusiasm has waned over time
91% of boys born in the 1970s, and 83% of boys born in the 1980s were circumcised.
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Does anyone know why the rate of circumcision dropped so much in the US. I can't believe "enthusiasm" is the culprit behind the decline. I honestly thought it was a healthlier choice to get circumcised.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Actually...the topic is FEMALE mutilation. As practiced (I infer) in some societies, as a means of control over FEMALES....by a patriarchal-dominated societal mindset. It is vile, and abhorrent, what they do to innocent victims.

ETA: Of course, a male baby whose parents decide to circumcise has NO say in the matter also.

BUT....this doesn't eliminate the pleasure aspect of the sex organ...as compared to the FEMALE abuse that is the topic.
 

jonnyH

Senior Member.
I honestly thought it was a healthlier choice to get circumcised.
but there was never any evidence to support that viewpoint. I like to think that over time society tends toward giving up its harmful superstitions, FGM included but it can be slow going.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
I come from an Kenya.

Please then tell us.

Is female genital mutilation a problem, in Kenya? IS Kenya a muslim-dominated nation??

(Because....let's be clear, here. The ONLY societies that ALLOW or CONDONE these atrocities against women are MUSLIM societies.....)
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
PLEASE by all means...correct me IF I am wrong.

Circumcision and ALL genital mutilations are religion-based? Yes, or no??

RELIGION is a terrible "mind-fuck"? Yes, or no??

Shall I continue? (YES or NO)?
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
No, will go even further off-topic :)

But Islam is mixed on the topic, mostly for, some against.

Fatwas in favor of FGM have been issued in many Islamic countries,[45][46][47] some fatwas forbid FGM,[48] and some ambivalent fatwas have also been issued that leave the choice to the parents.[49]
...
The historical religious view of Islam, on FGM, varies with the school of Islamic jurisprudence:[22]

  • The Shafi'i school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be wajib (obligatory).[23]
  • The Hanbali school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be makrumah (honorable) and strongly encouraged, to obligatory.[24]
  • The Maliki school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be sunnah (optional) and preferred.[24]
  • The Hanafi school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be sunnah (preferred).[24]
...
Qur'an verse opposing FGM
Islamic religious views against FGM revolve around the precept that mutilation and alteration of human being are against the teachings of Qur'an. A sura cited as opposing FGM practices is:[27]

"I will mislead them, and I will create in them false desires; I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and to deface the (fair) nature created by Allah." Whoever, forsaking Allah, takes satan for a friend, hath of a surety suffered a loss that is manifest.

Qur'an, [Quran 4:119]
This sura has been interpreted to mean Qur'an forbids man to change nature or mutilate any creature. Islamic scholars against FGM claim that this verse from Qur'an forbids all things that change what nature has meant it to be, including female circumcision and birth control. Some scholars[27] find this religious view unpersuasive, because Muslim male circumcision also mutilates and changes nature, and male circumcision is a practice that is widely considered as obligatory to recommended under Islam.[42]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religi...tion#Religious_views_on_FGM_in_Southeast_Asia
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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
However, there's more to it than just Islam -

In the modern Western world people mistakenly believe female genital mutilation is mostly a religious practice which is factually wrong.[4] Studies by the US Department of Health and the World Health Organization, among others, using the material from a host of anthropologists[6] have consistently stated that FMG is part of cultural rituals associated with tribal identity and tribal markings, and not with a particular religion.[7] In Africa and parts of the Middle East, the practice harms young girls regardless of the religion of the individuals. In Guinea, for example, over 90% of the population practice some Type of FMG -- Christians and Muslims alike. Rural Israel reports incidents of cutting in the Coptic Jewish community as well as the Muslim communities. [8].
...
Although the practice predates Islam by over a thousand years, it has become associated with Islam due to the geographic collocation of countries practising female genital mutilation and Muslim countries[9], as well as some level of stereotype.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation
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Sgt.Tinfoil

Member
Highly debatable on the 'medicinal' (sic?) benefits
Medical benefits are not debatable. There are few cases where circumzation can have medical benefits. I personally know only one guy who has done the circumcation and that was done because his foreskin was really tight and needed to be removed because having it was just too painful. This however this is really rare case but there are sometimes medical reasons to get circumcised.

And to be clear that I do consider circumcations as a mutilation if it is made by any other reason but than medical reason to males or females.
 

Jason

Senior Member
This sura has been interpreted to mean Qur'an forbids man to change nature or mutilate any creature. Islamic scholars against FGM claim that this verse from Qur'an forbids all things that change what nature has meant it to be, including female circumcision and birth control. Some scholars[27] find this religious view unpersuasive, because Muslim male circumcision also mutilates and changes nature, and male circumcision is a practice that is widely considered as obligatory to recommended under Islam
Jews also have a similar passage, but it's interpreted differently. If you've ever had the pleasure of walking through a hasidic neighborhood you would quickly realize that none of them shave their side burns. There are coveted areas of the body that Jews aren't allowed to shave and they aren't allowed to deface their bodies as well with tattoos. I remember when I was younger and my mother and father were arguing. My mom took me and my brother to her friends in brooklyn for the weekend, and came home with a tattoo of a rose on her shoulder and my dad and his parents literally freaked out and were worried about her soul when she died. But jews promote circumcision as a rite of passage. It's not done in the hospital and in many cases it's performed by a rabbi at your home.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Agreed. We found artwork in a tomb of Egypt which depicts the oldest evidence for circumcision dating to around 2400BC. Most people think Semites started circumcision, but to the contrary they think it was actually the Egyptians. In the Genesis however, Abraham was told to circumcise himself, his household and his slaves as an everlasting covenant in their flesh. The origins of circumcision for both man and women date back quite aways, and when westerners learned of this tradition those who were circumcised were outcast and often were embarrassed to shed their clothes in front of people, like the Jewish people with the Germans during the Holocaust.

So all I'm saying is, sure we look down upon it, and think its disgusting and it ruins women, but to other cultures they don't see it the same way. Now everyone, or most people in the developed world get circumcized a day after they are born because we know it has medicinal benefits. It's accepted in most of the world these days. So who knows, maybe FGM will become more accepted down the road even though there aren't any clear medicinal reasons for the procedure. I'm just trying to keep an open mind about this, but forcing women to get the procedure is unlawful and should be stopped when possible.

Female circumcision is mutilation intended to deny women having pleasure during sex by removing the clitorus, and sewing up the entry to the vagina.. Male circumcision was never done for that reason.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Female circumcision is mutilation intended to deny women having pleasure during sex by removing the clitorus, and sewing up the entry to the vagina.. Male circumcision was never done for that reason.

THAT (^^^^) is an accurate assessment of the situation.

SOME people (men) will claim that the removal of the foreskin on the male penis can diminish the sexual pleasure aspect.

BUT.....this topic involves (and pardon me for being too graphic)....it is the SAME as if the glans of the male penis were cut off. The glans of the male penis is where the "pleasure" nerves are located.

THIS IS ABHORRENT!!! Female Genital Mutilation is a CRIME!
 

Jason

Senior Member
Female circumcision is mutilation intended to deny women having pleasure during sex by removing the clitorus, and sewing up the entry to the vagina.. Male circumcision was never done for that reason.
But there are women who elect to get FGM. Mutilation only occurs in hostile environments.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
But there are women who elect to get FGM. Mutilation only occurs in hostile environments.

I think this all getting off topic. The topic was about a supposed edict forcing women to be mutilated against their will. A discussion of the vagaries of the border between cultural norms and oppressive practices is neither here nor there.
 
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