Debunked: CNNs Fake News Broadcasts - Charles Jaco and the Fake Live Gulf War Reports

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Why would you characterize it as a "recreation"? From everything I've seen it seemed like a genuine air raid warning, and they responded appropriately. They were right next to a potential target. And these were not troops, but civilian reporters.

It might of got more air-play than it deserved, but that's just because it was compelling TV.
 

Marcus Mudd

Member
I agree. But to say they are only playing the clip for good tv is an assumption because it does follow fear based and emotionally driven language.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Very quick! The broadcast is valid and can be logically accounted for. However by admission in your own article the rest of the year resulted in one fatality. My unit was a field artillery patrolling force in Ramadi Iraq and Geraldo even came out for an 'on the ground' report in our area. Some of the over-dramatization and sensationalism may have been more apparent to me based on me being accustomed to the war, but a siren blasting, combat scenario recreation complete with gas masks and helmets is way overdoing it in this situation, which is an obviously controlled environment.

I was stationed at bagdad international airport for a short time, which would routinely get mortered and attacked. It still was a very lax environment, however on patrol it was a lot different

Of course different wars dictate different reporting scenarios, but this particular incident, though not a complete fake, is still a true example of a subtle media technique of inducing a fear that may be less real and more imagined. But still very quick and thoughtful, a welcomed change from other sites!

I don't see how this is over dramatised. They appear to be reporting the event as it occurs. They would have no control over the alarms and the like. To me it appears under dramatised and the reporters seem to be dealing with a stressful situation rather well.
 

Marcus Mudd

Member
I don't see how this is over dramatised. They appear to be reporting the event as it occurs. They would have no control over the alarms and the like. To me it appears under dramatised and the reporters seem to be dealing with a stressful situation rather well.
im not sure your background, or if you were in the military, but this was definitely NOT an accurate representation of the situation on the ground. Many people will believe the scenario as is, and perceive the fear that's not there, its hard to understand how this simple, yet effective tactic, can be a major factor in policy. The reason they were so calm and lax is because there was no danger. Ive been in similar situations in places that were not dangerous, but appeared to be and ive been in actual danger with fire fghts, morter shells and rocket propelled grenades. I can see how many could be fooled, but it is an obvious deception to those that know war
 

TEEJ

Senior Member.
Hi Dave,
It does tie in with the 22nd January. Debris impacted on the airbase next to the hotel.

Journalist Brian Barron also reported on the early morning Scud attack from 02:16


The original Charles Jaco report where he states the time of the attack as 0720 Saudi Time.

 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
im not sure your background, or if you were in the military, but this was definitely NOT an accurate representation of the situation on the ground. Many people will believe the scenario as is, and perceive the fear that's not there, its hard to understand how this simple, yet effective tactic, can be a major factor in policy. The reason they were so calm and lax is because there was no danger. Ive been in similar situations in places that were not dangerous, but appeared to be and ive been in actual danger with fire fghts, morter shells and rocket propelled grenades. I can see how many could be fooled, but it is an obvious deception to those that know war

Well it certainly looks like they perceive a danger especially when he puts his gas mask on. In my view it is a true representation of a missile attack.I don't see any melodrama just people reporting things as they happen while under stress.
 

Marcus Mudd

Member
Well it certainly looks like they perceive a danger especially when he puts his gas mask on. In my view it is a true representation of a missile attack.I don't see any melodrama just people reporting things as they happen while under stress.
Exactly. People that have never been to war cannot tell the difference between perceived threat and real threat and it will always be used against them. Its a hard idea to explain to those that cant conceptualize war. This particular airbase had never been attacked, and never was attacked. This is also in Saudi Arabia and not Kuwait or Iraq. Ive been through REAL attacks on base and even as such the level of drama did not reach this extent. We carried gas masks everywhere we went, just for general purpose. I was in 1 5 field artillery and I was a patrol medic for thirteen months in al anbar province in Ramadi Iraq from 2003 to 2004. I can tell the difference instantly and this is an obvious put on. This is weak percievedthreat, marketed as real impending danger, which is deceptive and dangerous to an unknowing population
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Exactly. People that have never been to war cannot tell the difference between perceived threat and real threat and it will always be used against them. Its a hard idea to explain to those that cant conceptualize war. This particular airbase had never been attacked, and never was attacked. This is also in Saudi Arabia and not Kuwait or Iraq. Ive been through REAL attacks on base and even as such the level of drama did not reach this extent. We carried gas masks everywhere we went, just for general purpose. I was in 1 5 field artillery and I was a patrol medic for thirteen months in al anbar province in Ramadi Iraq from 2003 to 2004. I can tell the difference instantly and this is an obvious put on. This is weak percievedthreat, marketed as real impending danger, which is deceptive and dangerous to an unknowing population

No it is not marketed. This is the accurate reporting of a real scud missile attack on Dharhan. The danger in the attack is very real and they get the point across on how much of the population must have been feeling.
 

Marcus Mudd

Member
No it is not marketed. This is the accurate reporting of a real scud missile attack on Dharhan. The danger in the attack is very real and they get the point across on how much of the population must have been feeling.
It is not and the population as a whole will always be fooled because of an inability to comprehend. You and many others like you have been manipulated, and will continue to be. This site seems to be more about debunking and less abt fact, especially in the face of truths. Thanks for your perspective tho!
 
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David Fraser

Senior Member.
It is not and the population as a whole will always be fooled because of an inability to comprehend. You and many others like you have been manipulated, and will continue to be. Thanks for your perspective tho!
It was a very real attack. Are you claiming that the population in Saudia Arabia was not frightened especially during Scud attacks? I think reports like this translate that fear and confusion extremely well. Is that not the job of good reporting ?
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
It is not and the population as a whole will always be fooled because of an inability to comprehend. You and many others like you have been manipulated, and will continue to be. This site seems to be more about debunking and less abt fact, especially in the face of truths. Thanks for your perspective tho!
Oh. Totally irrelevant but I was in Dahrhan Airport the morning if the attack.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
What attack. This airbase was never attacked. There were only warnings. U have to at it in perspective.

lol u must have been terrified. lol
Can you explain the Patriot missiles going off?? Are you saying I am lying? Do you understand what a Scud attack was? Just answer me this. Did the population of Saudi Arabia live in fear of Scud attacks and over 49 happened
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
I cannot believe anyone in the military has cine out with crap like this. I suspect comments have been made from a retrospective view which is irrelevant.

I did not see news storys but I have anecdotal diary entries. I think 14 years as a medic counts for something.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
What attack. This airbase was never attacked. There were only warnings. U have to at it in perspective.

lol u must have been terrified. lol
This place apparently was attacked and the threat was real when air raid sirens went off.
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/missile/scud_info/scud_info_s04.htm

Here is some perspective on how close it was to the hotel.

It was 3 miles away:
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=2...7&show=/1025487/Al-Aujan-Compound-(1990-1991)
 
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Marcus Mudd

Member
Lol this is still insignificant. Our base in camp ramada was struck several times and many people were killed. There was an mortar attack that killed 6 people and 42 people were injured while I was on patrol in the city. And still the level of concern was specified to the particular area on base and my unit was not effected or in 'drill mode'. There were incidents when as much as 27 mortars hit our base and the level of preparedness and tension was not as high as this non attack.

It's an attempt at a debunk that is just not there because none of you fellas understand war. That is perspective.
 

Marcus Mudd

Member
I'm trying to explain the perspective of wartime intensity levels from first hand experience. A rocket attack three miles away in a city that was only bombed once with injuries is a non threat: from a united states army veteran. Lol, but you're confusion of the situation does not stop from speaking on it, or listening to someone with personal experience, and it should
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Right, 28 killed and 100 injured in a Scud attack 3 miles away. And they were a bit nervous.

You are overly downplaying this Marcus. They had every right to be nervous and concerned for their lives.
 

O_O

Member
Right, 28 killed and 100 injured in a Scud attack 3 miles away. And they were a bit nervous.

You are overly downplaying this Marcus. They had every right to be nervous and concerned for their lives.
Gotta second this. Bear in mind, these cats didn't sign on as soldiers, and they (as you've pointed out) do not have the same combat-zone experience that you do. Tell Old Lady Smith in Palooka, USA that bombs are falling 3 miles up the road. Think she'll chillax and pour some more lemonade? I've been in war zones, and my attitudes are somewhat similar to yours (they tell me I've got "balls like coconuts"), but the reaction that those folks had was understandable.
 

Marcus Mudd

Member
But no right to report it as if it were a live combat zone. One attack with injures over the entire history of the war doesn constitute the level of intensity portrayed. But I won't be able to explain it without u fellas knowing the contrast between real and perceived threat.

When one is entrenched in a city saturated with terrorists that hide bombs in the road and shoot rockets at you from school tops, it's completely ridiculous (and in all honesty offensive) to watch reporters manipulate a situation to this extent. Without the comparison and experience of real danger tho, it is nearly impossible to express how this reporter, tho appearing to be, is not at all worried.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It varies by individual. Not everyone acts the same. Their reactions seem within the range of normality.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
When one is entrenched in a city saturated with terrorists that hide bombs in the road and shoot rockets at you from school tops, it's completely ridiculous (and in all honesty offensive) to watch reporters manipulate a situation to this extent. Without the comparison and experience of real danger tho, it is nearly impossible to express how this reporter, tho appearing to be, is not at all worried.
Except Dhahran, Saudi Arabia wasn't a city saturated with terrorists hiding bombs and shooting rockets.

You do realize the news report is from the first Gulf War in 1991 (Operation Desert Storm) and not the Iraq War in 2003 (Operation Iraqi Freedom) don't you?
 

O_O

Member
I just rewatched it. I can dig your perspective Marcus, but I don't find anything disingenuous with those reporters. They certainly weren't trying to belittle the realities of truly being in a hot zone. It's personal perspective; just try to empathize and understand their perspective. I don't see that there's anything particularly remarkable about this news clip.
 

Marcus Mudd

Member
And of course I can see you fellas points as well, and comparison does extend a bit of perspective. But personal perspective aside, the effect of the over report coupled with other damming reports could be used to sell society on warfare. Not to be off topic but the portrayal of Syria - American relations in the media mimics the manipulative aspects of the this report, in different ways of course. But this is off topic maybe I'll make a thread later! Thanks a lot for listening fellas!
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
I'm trying to explain the perspective of wartime intensity levels from first hand experience.
There is a big difference between being a solider in the Iraq War (2003) and how they would react to being under attack day in, day out, and how civilian reporters in the Gulf war, (1991)in a potential target, would react to a air raid siren of incoming scud missiles, possibly carrying chemical or biological weapons, just 5 days after the start of the war (that only lasted 7 weeks) and just 2 days after the first scud attack happened.

A rocket attack three miles away in a city that was only bombed once with injuries is a non threat: from a united states army veteran. Lol, but you're confusion of the situation does not stop from speaking on it, or listening to someone with personal experience, and it should
A 26 foot crater on the runway is a lot closer than 3 miles.
 

Marcus Mudd

Member
I'd like to share something that may add a bit of perspective of how danger can be perceived and mispercieved. When I landed in Iraq I landed by shinook with about 12 other privates and one sgt. Upon landing we realize we are in the middle of a sun parched cracked desert miles around and we didn't know where we were. The sgt, being as unaware as we were, dropped to a prone position instantly and ordered us into circle formation with our rifles facing outward. Abt 15 mins laying in fighting position a five ton pulls up full of smiling soldiers

They hopped off the truck and explained to us that we were on base property and, even tho we are well in range of attack, we needed to calm down. Obviously us and the sgt felt sheepish lying on base in full battle rattle with weapons ready. He and we had no idea of threat level.

The use of perceived and mispercieved threat can be tricky, but the knowledge thereof can be used to manipulate those that have no real perception of war.
 

Sausalito

Active Member
I'd like to share something that may add a bit of perspective of how danger can be perceived and mispercieved. When I landed in Iraq I landed by shinook with about 12 other privates and one sgt. Upon landing we realize we are in the middle of a sun parched cracked desert miles around and we didn't know where we were. The sgt, being as unaware as we were, dropped to a prone position instantly and ordered us into circle formation with our rifles facing outward. Abt 15 mins laying in fighting position a five ton pulls up full of smiling soldiers

They hopped off the truck and explained to us that we were on base property and, even tho we are well in range of attack, we needed to calm down. Obviously us and the sgt felt sheepish lying on base in full battle rattle with weapons ready. He and we had no idea of threat level.

The use of perceived and mispercieved threat can be tricky, but the knowledge thereof can be used to manipulate those that have no real perception of war.
I actually L'dOL at this, imagining the other GIs rolling up on you. :) The most sinister (realistic) explanation here is that... wait! Scrap that. This newscast is totally benign. I was going to allow for accusations of sensationalism, but really not more than usual (take that as ye may). I don't see this as deliberate manipulation for any purpose other than perhaps the production of "compelling tv." The reporters seem sincere. Way too clumsy to pass for propaganda of any kind.


[Oh hey, all yucks aside I'm glad that you made it back.]
 

Marcus Mudd

Member
I actually L'dOL at this, imagining the other GIs rolling up on you. :) The most sinister (realistic) explanation here is that... wait! Scrap that. This newscast is totally benign. I was going to allow for accusations of sensationalism, but really not more than usual (take that as ye may). I don't see this as deliberate manipulation for any purpose other than perhaps the production of "compelling tv." The reporters seem sincere. Way too clumsy to pass for propaganda of any kind.


[Oh hey, all yucks aside I'm glad that you made it back.]
I disagree completely from experience but thanks bro! Lol yeh we all felt really foolish. We put our rifles back on safe and got into the five ton! What is sobering however is that on the same base people were killed and maimed by explosions, at many different junctures
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
When one is entrenched in a city saturated with terrorists that hide bombs in the road and shoot rockets at you from school tops, it's completely ridiculous (and in all honesty offensive) to watch reporters manipulate a situation to this extent.
I have to ask why you think Dhahran Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War (1991) was anything like what you are describing?
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
I have to ask why you think Dhahran Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War (1991) was anything like what you are describing?
He's not describing them to be analogous, he's illustrating Dhahran 1991 and his situation both had certain levels of fear attached.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
He's not describing them to be analogous, he's illustrating Dhahran 1991 and his situation both had certain levels of fear attached.
It is almost like those that say the Sandy Hook parents were actors because they were not crying hard enough, only in this case, the reporters were acting too much.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Using hindsight and personal experience to describe an event like this is flawed without the use of empathy, that is to be able to emotionally yourself in the others shoe, after all you are commenting on their experience not your own.

The danger and fear within Saudi Arabia was real and tangible. The main concern was one of Scuds been used to deliver chemical weapons or a dirty nuke. Again that was a real threat. At the time of the broadcast Dharhan would have gone through at least a dozen warnings in the previous days, some as a direct threat some not as a theatre wide warning was issued purely on the detection of Scud launches. The fear you see on screen is not overdramatised but very real for the population.

My experience at the time is very different to that of the population. I had confidence in my training and equipment and experience (I had been seriously wounded at 17 on a patrol). Many of us did, so much that we were ordered not to go on rooftops to "watch the fireworks" as it was upsetting the other nations troops. With that in mind to base an opinion purely on my own experience would not only lack insight but, for me, would feel arrogant.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
I'd like to share something that may add a bit of perspective of how danger can be perceived and mispercieved... even tho we are well in range of attack, we needed to calm down.

Help me understand this please.

You were part of a squad that overreacted to a situation because nobody understood the threat level, yet you don't believe a bunch of civilian reporters are capable of the same.
 
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Marcus Mudd

Member
Using hindsight and personal experience to describe an event like this is flawed without the use of empathy, that is to be able to emotionally yourself in the others shoe, after all you are commenting on their experience not your own.

The danger and fear within Saudi Arabia was real and tangible. The main concern was one of Scuds been used to deliver chemical weapons or a dirty nuke. Again that was a real threat. At the time of the broadcast Dharhan would have gone through at least a dozen warnings in the previous days, some as a direct threat some not as a theatre wide warning was issued purely on the detection of Scud launches. The fear you see on screen is not overdramatised but very real for the population.

My experience at the time is very different to that of the population. I had confidence in my training and equipment and experience (I had been seriously wounded at 17 on a patrol). Many of us did, so much that we were ordered not to go on rooftops to "watch the fireworks" as it was upsetting the other nations troops. With that in mind to base an opinion purely on my own experience would not only lack insight but, for me, would feel arrogant.


fortunately ive never in my 9 years of being back from Iraq have had my experience there in context described as arrogant. until now of course lol.
 

Marcus Mudd

Member
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/gao/im92026.htm

Basically this report says that the patriot missle defense system failed during the one attack killing the 28 soldiers. The reason it failed was due to the system not being rebooted every few hours, a rebooting process that takes at the most, 90 seconds.

The technology needed to fix even this problem was said by this report to have been installed on the very next day after the attack. Other reports say that befor this attack the patriot missles were so accurate at destroying the scud launches that the alarm and sirens were the only thing that reminded them they were in a war zone.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Getting rather off topic here. You've made your claim that you don't think that the reporters should have been so concerned. Personally I feel I'd be quite nervous myself. People vary.
 

Marcus Mudd

Member
Getting rather off topic here. You've made your claim that you don't think that the reporters should have been so concerned. Personally I feel I'd be quite nervous myself. People vary.
no this is directly on topic. this is proof that the attack that you are basing this imagined fear on was anomalous and not an accurate representation of the sentiment of danger on the ground. the pariot missle system is rendered ineffective after 20 hrs of use without being reboted and this report says that the system was running at the time of attack for 100 hrs. Aside from this anomalous event, more people died from asphyxiation in their gas masks than from scud missle attacks

This is evidence of the inaccuracy of the reporting in the area, and reason to believe that the fear level was fabricated. It also hints at a much larger conspiracy of inaction. This debunking is in serious question
 
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