Debunked: Bundy Ranch Dispute as BLM exploiting Fracking Rights

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T3ch5upport

New Member
You sir Mick West are either a government shill or just stupid. The real story here is that Nevada Senator Harry Reid is working in league with his son Rory Reid (Chinese solar power company lobbyist) to grab everyone's land and build a solar power plant.

BLM document that proves it.
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/las_vegas_field_office/energy/dry_lake_sez.Par.3790.File.dat/FAQs Oct2012.pdf


Supporting evidence.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831
http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/reid-smelling-anything-but-rosy-in-ranch-fight/


You sir have been debunked!
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You sir Mick West are either a government shill or just stupid. The real story here is that Nevada Senator Harry Reid is working in league with his son Rory Reid (Chinese solar power company lobbyist) to grab everyone's land and build a solar power plant.

BLM document that proves it.
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/las_vegas_field_office/energy/dry_lake_sez.Par.3790.File.dat/FAQs Oct2012.pdf


Supporting evidence.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831
http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/reid-smelling-anything-but-rosy-in-ranch-fight/

You sir have been debunked!

But the construction of the solar plant is not contingent upon off-site mitigation at Gold Butte - that's a very small part of the overall plan. And the dispute with Bundy started years before the Solar plant was even imagined.
 

T3ch5upport

New Member
So you admit that there is an agenda to run ranchers off their land in order mitigate their land to offshore companies? This is a crime and our government is clearly the aggressor.

No taxation without representation.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So you admit that there is an agenda to run ranchers off their land in order mitigate their land to offshore companies? This is a crime and our government is clearly the aggressor.

No taxation without representation.

No, he gets to keep his land. His dispute with the BLM is about his grazing on public land that he does not own. He lost the rights about 15 years ago after he stopped paying his fee. He's grazing illegally.
 

T3ch5upport

New Member
The laws are illegal. This is unconstitutional, and constitutes as taxation without representation. If you support the Stazi then I know what side you clearly stand on.
His family was there before the BLM.
 

Bill

Senior Member.
So you admit that there is an agenda to run ranchers off their land in order mitigate their land to offshore companies? This is a crime and our government is clearly the aggressor.

No taxation without representation.
I don't understand why so many of his supporters can't understand that the land he personally owns is not at issue. It is land the government owns that he is grazing on illegally that is the problem. In addition he ignores everybody else's rights and lets his cattle wander further and further afield.
 

T3ch5upport

New Member
I don't understand why so many of his supporters can't understand that the land he personally owns is not at issue. It is land the government owns that he is grazing on illegally that is the problem. In addition he ignores everybody else's rights and lets his cattle wander further and further afield.

I don't understand why government supporters can't understand that corruption is involved and it's been proven. This is a sell off of land to Chinese energy company.


http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media...y_lake_sez.Par.3790.File.dat/FAQs Oct2012.pdf
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831
 

Bill

Senior Member.
You sir Mick West are either a government shill or just stupid. The real story here is that Nevada Senator Harry Reid is working in league with his son Rory Reid (Chinese solar power company lobbyist) to grab everyone's land and build a solar power plant.

BLM document that proves it.
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/las_vegas_field_office/energy/dry_lake_sez.Par.3790.File.dat/FAQs Oct2012.pdf


Supporting evidence.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831
http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/reid-smelling-anything-but-rosy-in-ranch-fight/


You sir have been debunked!
What Harry Reid and his son are doing is irrelevant. This problem started in 1993. Harry Reid is being used as a smokescreen to divert people from the fact that for the last 20 years this individual has been grazing on public land at the public's expense.
 

RyanBiv

New Member
You sir Mick West are either a government shill or just stupid. The real story here is that Nevada Senator Harry Reid is working in league with his son Rory Reid (Chinese solar power company lobbyist) to grab everyone's land and build a solar power plant.

BLM document that proves it.
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/las_vegas_field_office/energy/dry_lake_sez.Par.3790.File.dat/FAQs Oct2012.pdf


Supporting evidence.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831
http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/reid-smelling-anything-but-rosy-in-ranch-fight/


You sir have been debunked!

The company that the Reids are involved with, ENN, is building in Laughlin, NV as the reuters article you linked to clearly states. This is over 100 miles to the south of the Dry Lake SEZ and Gold Butte. So far I haven't seen any evidence linking Reid to Dry Lake.
 

T3ch5upport

New Member
The company that the Reids are involved with, ENN, is building in Laughlin, NV as the reuters article you linked to clearly states. This is over 100 miles to the south of the Dry Lake SEZ and Gold Butte. So far I haven't seen any evidence linking Reid to Dry Lake.


You must have not read the BLM document that says they need to remove Cliven Bundy before they can roll out the Solar plan.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You must have not read the BLM document that says they need to remove Cliven Bundy before they can roll out the Solar plan.

Please quote where it says that. In the BLM document you linked, the word "bundy", and "gold butte" do not appear. Nor does there seem to be anywhere where it says they would stop rolling out the solar plan.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
The laws are illegal. This is unconstitutional, and constitutes as taxation without representation. If you support the Stazi then I know what side you clearly stand on.
His family was there before the BLM.


Wait.....what??


His "family" were there before the BLM? Well, to be perfectly accurate....there were many indigenous Humans there LONG before the development of what is now called the "United States of America". And, the incorporation of the government that is currently associated with that nation.

This is history. It isn't always "pretty", the history. But, it is meant to be accurate, unless someone attempts to "revise" it.

I'm wondering (here) if there are not parallels to the experience and history of the territorial land and regions of the North American continent that eventually, and historically, have come to be known as the "USA", with any similar historical aspects in Australia??

Surely, someone (by now) has written a thesis on this?
 

T3ch5upport

New Member
History of Cattle Trespass
  • In 1993, some of the terms of Mr. Bundy’s grazing permit for the Bunkerville allotment were modified to protect the desert tortoise. Mr. Bundy did not accept the offered grazing permit and subsequently stopped paying grazing fees. The BLM then cancelled Mr. Bundy’s grazing permit but Mr. Bundy continued to graze his cattle in the Bunkerville Allotment. A portion of the Bunkerville Allotment is National Park Service (NPS) lands which BLM managed by agreement with NPS.

  • In 1997, in accordance with the Desert Tortoise Recovery Plan and the Biological Opinion released by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, active grazing permits in tortoise habitat were purchased by Clark County under the Clark County Multi-Species Habitat Conservation Program. Mr. Bundy rejected a tentative proposal to compensate him for any stockwater rights or range improvements he might have in his former allotment.

  • In 1998, the United States filed a civil complaint against Mr. Bundy for his continued trespass grazing in the Bunkerville Allotment. The U.S. District Court for the District of Nevada issued an order permanently enjoining Mr. Bundy from grazing cattle on the Bunkerville allotment, ordered him to remove all trespass cattle and set a penalty of $200 per day per animal remaining on the federal range.

  • In 1999, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the District Court’s permanent injunction. When Mr. Bundy failed to remove his livestock as directed by the District Court, the United States filed a motion to enforce the permanent injunction and the District Court ordered Mr. Bundy to pay $1,377 as willful repeated trespass damages and adjusted fines to be consistent with regulatory rates of $45.90 per day for each day Mr. Bundy’s cattle remained on the allotment based on a herd size of 51 cows BLM had documented as still remaining on the federal range.

  • In 1999, the Las Vegas Field Office Resource Management Plan designated the Bunkerville allotment as “Closed to Grazing” to protect desert tortoise habitat.

  • In 2008, BLM issued a decision to cancel Mr. Bundy’s range improvement authorizations (one range improvement permit and ten cooperative agreements). Mr. Bundy submitted a letter objecting to the action which BLM forwarded to the Interior Board of Land Appeals (IBLA) as an appeal. The IBLA issued a decision affirming the BLM’s cancellation decision on December 22, 2008.

  • In March 2011, BLM counted 903 cattle from a helicopter spread out over approximately 90 miles in northeast Clark County within the Gold Butte area, including Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Of the 564 cattle that were in locations that could be accessed by ground teams, 43 percent had no identifying marks, 41 percent had either brands or earmarks registered to Cliven Bundy and 16 percent could not be viewed from all sides to determine ownership information.

  • In 2011, BLM [has] issued Mr. Bundy a Trespass Notice and Order to Cease and Desist; a Trespass Decision and Order to Remove; and a Notice of Intent to Impound. None of these communications resulted in Mr. Bundy’s voluntary removal of the trespass cattle from the public lands.

  • In August 2011, cattle were counted by helicopter in the Gold Butte Areas of Critical Environmental Concern (ACECs), Mormon Mesa ACEC and Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Of the 729 cattle counted, only 278 cattle were in locations that could be accessed by the ground teams.

  • In February 2012, approximately 600 cattle were spotted by helicopter including Gold Butte Areas of Critical Environmental Concern (ACECs), Mormon Mesa ACEC and Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Approximately 50 cattle were counted in Lake Mead National Recreation Area and 550 were counted on BLM managed public lands.

  • In April 2012, 750 cattle were identified by helicopter on the federal lands. An impoundment operation scheduled to take place in April 2012 was cancelled a day before operations were set to begin.

  • In May 2012, the United States filed a Complaint seeking declaratory and injunctive relief for Cliven Bundy’s trespass grazing within the Gold Butte area outside the Bunkerville Allotment, including within Lake Mead National Recreation Area.
  • In April 2013, the United States filed a Motion to Enforce the 1998 Permanent Injunction against Cliven Bundy for the Bunkerville Allotment.

  • In May 2013, 795 cattle were counted by helicopter on the federal lands.

  • On July 9, 2013, U.S. District Court of Nevada Judge Lloyd George permanently enjoined Cliven Bundy’s trespass grazing and ordered Cliven Bundy to remove his trespass cattle from public land outside the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days, stating that the United States is authorized to seize and impound any cattle that remain in trespass after 45 days.

  • On October 9, 2013, U.S. District Court of Nevada Judge Larry Hicks reiterated that Cliven Bundy is permanently enjoined from grazing the Bunkerville Allotment and has no legal right to graze the federal lands, directed him to remove his trespass cattle from the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days, authorized the United States to impound his cattle if he fails to remove them within 45 days or continues to trespass at a future date and directed Mr. Bundy not to physically interfere with an impoundment action.

  • In December 2013, BLM counted 568 cattle by helicopter that remain on the federal lands that are subject to the permanent injunctions.
Content from External Source
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
They did have a document up about Cliven Bundy that they later took down once exposed.

"They"?

"History of Cattle Trespass", sourced externally.

I see a person "prodding" what he considers the "Powers That Be" in order to provoke a confrontation. Where is it not this obvious?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The BLM document, with relevent part highlighted:


Cattle Trespass Impacts
Cliven Bundy has no legal authority to graze cattle on federal lands in the Gold Butte area, including Lake Mead National Recreation Area. The U.S. District Court of Nevada has permanently enjoined Cliven Bundy's trespass grazing, ordered him to remove his trespass cattle from public lands inside and outside the former Bunkerville Allotment (including from the Lake Mead NRA) before December 2013, and stated the U.S. is entitled to seize and impound any cattle that have not been removed by the judicially imposed off-date and that remain in trespass. A large number of the trespass cattle on the federal lands are feral cattle that can pose a threat to members of the public recreating or traveling over the federal lands. The trespass cattle have also caused damage to private property, as well as to the federal lands and natural resources.

Examples of Recent Incidents of Private Property Damage Caused by Bundy's Trespass Cattle

  • One feral cow was hit by an automobile within Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Cattle are frequently seen on public roads, including State Route 170 and pose a danger to vehicles and to members of the public traveling on public roads.
  • Overton Wildlife Refuge (State of Nevada) employee attacked by a Bundy bull.
  • Crop destroyed by Bundy cattle on private land.
  • Mesquite Heritage Community Garden damaged by trespass cattle.
  • Mesquite golf course damaged by trespass cattle.
Examples of Restoration Funding and Viability Impacted

  • A $400,000 matching grant to restore Southwest Willow Flycatcher habitat along the Virgin River from the Walton Family Foundation was withdrawn until the trespass cattle have been removed.
  • A $160,000 Southern Nevada Public Land Management Act project to restore Southwestern Willow Flycatcher has been delayed until trespass cattle are removed.
  • Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.
  • The Nevada State Department of Wildlife has built extensive fences to protect state and federal lands protected as the Overton Wildlife Refuge from the trespass cattle.
Examples of Public Concerns

  • Residents of the communities of Bunkerville and Mesquite have complained about the impact of cattle on city facilities.
  • Within the last month, letters requesting action have also been received from several individuals, Friends of Nevada Wilderness, Friends of Gold Butte and Friends of Joshua Tree Forest.
  • The Center for Biological Diversity has demanded action to resolve trespass in designated critical desert tortoise habitat in several letters.
  • Western Watersheds has requested a verbal status update and later filed a Freedom of Information Act request.
Examples of Natural and Cultural Resource Damage

  • Cattle have crushed artifacts at the "Red Racer" and St. Thomas cultural sites.
  • Damage to springs, including fecal contamination, trampling soils and vegetation and impacts to wildlife. Wildlife will avoid springs with large numbers of cattle.
  • Damage to springs with sensitive amphibians, including the rare relict leopard frog.
  • Multiple instances of vegetation damage to rare plants, including on monitoring plots after extensive wildfires within critical habitat for Desert Tortoise.
  • Unauthorized reservoir constructed with bulldozer twice.
http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/lvfo/blm_programs/more/trespass_cattle/cattle_trespass_impacts.html
Retrieved from Google cache
Content from External Source
So the solar energy zone offsite mitigation is just some NGOs (presumably like the Sierra Club?) being concerned. The solar energy zone development was not going to be impacted.
 

RyanBiv

New Member
You must have not read the BLM document that says they need to remove Cliven Bundy before they can roll out the Solar plan.

Where does it say that ENN is involved with the Dry Lake SEZ though? You are conflating 2 separate things just because they are both solar related.
 
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WeedWhacker

Senior Member
So...this entire brouhaha is about land-use "rights" for potential Solar Power farms? Versus, the ability of one person to graze his approximately 785-head of cattle in the desert...IN THE DESERT? Knowing that of course, near a water source, there can be some arable grazing land, for those cattle but still...what am I missing here?

Are the cattle owned by Cliven Bundy raised as dairy, or as meat sources? (Just trying to cut to the chase).

The desert is very large, and for Solar Power purposes...one would think that many locations might be adequate. Of course, there are considerations, such as power-line construction to transmit any generated power, and also available resources for those who must be employed to work at a Power Plant....but, aren't these surmountable?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So...this entire brouhaha is about land-use "rights" for potential Solar Power farms? Versus, the ability of one person to graze his approximately 785-head of cattle in the desert...IN THE DESERT? Knowing that of course, near a water source, there can be some arable grazing land, for those cattle but still...what am I missing here?

It's not about Solar Power - that's just something that Infowars are pushing. There's very little actual involvement with the Solar Power thing.


  • Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.
Content from External Source
That's it. Some NGO concern. Nothing really.
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
By not paying the fees and grazing his heard on lands payed for by taxes, Bundy is essentially charging the tax payers to feed his cattle. By not having to pay to feed his own cattle Bundy is able to earn a bigger profit. I bet every one of his supporters would be up in arms (pun intended) if (when?) it was shown that tax money was being used to put money in the pockets of politicians.

Just saying...
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I'm no rancher, but I imagine it is hard to milk cows twice a day when they are roaming out on the range.
that's what I was gonna say. I was scanning Google Earth to find this "turtle killing compound" and theres nothing out there! what does he do, drive his cattle to the few green spots? otherwise they would use up more calories to get there then they would eat.
 

PCWilliams

Senior Member.
Tidied up the map, and added Bundy Ranch to the bottom key:

I swear i don't mean to beat this dead cow ... er ... i mean, horse, but i just want to make sure i have my understanding correct so i can make a correct map and explain this to those who need explaining.

Now that the Bundy land is depicted on the map, the area depicted in red is where Bundy was allowed to graze?

And the "New Tresspass Land" is ...?
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
I swear i don't mean to beat this dead cow ... er ... i mean, horse, but i just want to make sure i have my understanding correct so i can make a correct map and explain this to those who need explaining.

Now that the Bundy land is depicted on the map, the area depicted in red is where Bundy was allowed to graze?

And the "New Tresspass Land" is ...?

The red area is where he was once allowed to graze. He is currently letting his cattle graze beyond the red area, they are now all over the black area as well.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I swear i don't mean to beat this dead cow ... er ... i mean, horse, but i just want to make sure i have my understanding correct so i can make a correct map and explain this to those who need explaining.

Now that the Bundy land is depicted on the map, the area depicted in red is where Bundy was allowed to graze?

And the "New Tresspass Land" is ...?

Where he's additionally grazing now, according to the BLM. It's explained in the OP.

The Ranch seems to be this, mostly ag.
 

RyanBiv

New Member
Mick already posted that BLM document.

The BLM document, with relevent part highlighted:


Cattle Trespass Impacts
Cliven Bundy has no legal authority to graze cattle on federal lands in the Gold Butte area, including Lake Mead National Recreation Area. The U.S. District Court of Nevada has permanently enjoined Cliven Bundy's trespass grazing, ordered him to remove his trespass cattle from public lands inside and outside the former Bunkerville Allotment (including from the Lake Mead NRA) before December 2013, and stated the U.S. is entitled to seize and impound any cattle that have not been removed by the judicially imposed off-date and that remain in trespass. A large number of the trespass cattle on the federal lands are feral cattle that can pose a threat to members of the public recreating or traveling over the federal lands. The trespass cattle have also caused damage to private property, as well as to the federal lands and natural resources.

Examples of Recent Incidents of Private Property Damage Caused by Bundy's Trespass Cattle

  • One feral cow was hit by an automobile within Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Cattle are frequently seen on public roads, including State Route 170 and pose a danger to vehicles and to members of the public traveling on public roads.
  • Overton Wildlife Refuge (State of Nevada) employee attacked by a Bundy bull.
  • Crop destroyed by Bundy cattle on private land.
  • Mesquite Heritage Community Garden damaged by trespass cattle.
  • Mesquite golf course damaged by trespass cattle.
Examples of Restoration Funding and Viability Impacted

  • A $400,000 matching grant to restore Southwest Willow Flycatcher habitat along the Virgin River from the Walton Family Foundation was withdrawn until the trespass cattle have been removed.
  • A $160,000 Southern Nevada Public Land Management Act project to restore Southwestern Willow Flycatcher has been delayed until trespass cattle are removed.
  • Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle.
  • The Nevada State Department of Wildlife has built extensive fences to protect state and federal lands protected as the Overton Wildlife Refuge from the trespass cattle.
Examples of Public Concerns

  • Residents of the communities of Bunkerville and Mesquite have complained about the impact of cattle on city facilities.
  • Within the last month, letters requesting action have also been received from several individuals, Friends of Nevada Wilderness, Friends of Gold Butte and Friends of Joshua Tree Forest.
  • The Center for Biological Diversity has demanded action to resolve trespass in designated critical desert tortoise habitat in several letters.
  • Western Watersheds has requested a verbal status update and later filed a Freedom of Information Act request.
Examples of Natural and Cultural Resource Damage

  • Cattle have crushed artifacts at the "Red Racer" and St. Thomas cultural sites.
  • Damage to springs, including fecal contamination, trampling soils and vegetation and impacts to wildlife. Wildlife will avoid springs with large numbers of cattle.
  • Damage to springs with sensitive amphibians, including the rare relict leopard frog.
  • Multiple instances of vegetation damage to rare plants, including on monitoring plots after extensive wildfires within critical habitat for Desert Tortoise.
  • Unauthorized reservoir constructed with bulldozer twice.
http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/lvfo/blm_programs/more/trespass_cattle/cattle_trespass_impacts.html
Retrieved from Google cache
Content from External Source
So the solar energy zone offsite mitigation is just some NGOs (presumably like the Sierra Club?) being concerned. The solar energy zone development was not going to be impacted.

Infowars originally "connected the dots", it was picked up by Drudge, and now certain media like Mark Levin and Fox news are trying to turn this into some "land grab" conspiracy by the Reids.

I haven't seen any evidence that shows that Rory Reid, let alone Harry Reid, had any direct involvement with the unfolding of events at the Bundy ranch.
 
J

Joe

Guest
Mick already posted that BLM document.



Infowars originally "connected the dots", it was picked up by Drudge, and now certain media like Mark Levin and Fox news are trying to turn this into some "land grab" conspiracy by the Reids.

I haven't seen any evidence that shows that Rory Reid, let alone Harry Reid, had any direct involvement with the unfolding of events at the Bundy ranch.
Not Found
The requested URL was not found on this server. Thats the page now ? Hmm why would they remove it and then backdown ? http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/bundy-ranch-rory-reid-harry-reid/2014/04/13/id/565328/ seems like they are trying to hide something
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
This is what i came up with, for those who say the restricted airspace was set up above his property.

Is it a TFR??

(Can you source the NOTAM, please?)

Here is a link to the current "SkyVector" image of the Sectional Chart for the area, north and east of Las Vegas:
http://skyvector.com/?ll=36.939131239857474,-114.57093654501014&chart=17&zoom=6

"SkyVector" usually includes TFR data "live" on the charts that they post on their website. Of course, no one is perfect.

BUT, I think your point was....the claim has been "debunked", since the TFR was not anywhere near the actual location of the 160 acres in question?
 
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