Debunk This New JFK Information

BombDr

Senior Member.
I've yet to hear, see, or read an adequate ( and certainly not personally satisfying ) explanation of " back and to the left " by an official from any level of government whilst in their official capacity...nor in any mainstream artistic or journalistic medium whatsoever. I'm new to debunking but that seems to be the most glaring visual evidence that can be used in an adult argument or debate on this particular topic, which is certainly the watershed moment of the proletariat mistrust of the average American citizen towards their government. Is that not so?

Gunshot wounds in real life do not conform to what Hollywood suggests they uniformly do. I have a gunshot wound to my chest, which was stopped by body armour, but certainly did not make me fly through the air as a similar Hollywood shooting would suggest and I felt like I had been hit with a hammer and fell over. I would also opine from seeing a few other people getting shot, that each one is an individual event, so predicting what 'should' have happened and what it 'should' look like is a bit unscientific.

Here at about 1:40 you see a guy shot at close range with presumably a 7.62x39mm AK round which also appears to pass right through him. He does not fly backwards.

This chap gets shot multiple times at close range by rifles - does not fly back

Head shot, presumably by a sniper rifle, head does not fly in any particular direction.

Syrian dude, shot in head, drops straight down.

I am not a big fan of using youtube videos as 'proof' of anything, but I am trying to make the point that gunshot victims do not always do what you 'expect' them to do and simply saying that 'back and to the left' is evidence that JFK was shot from the front is the same as me saying that the last video is evidence of a Syrian dude being shot directly from above.
 

Alchemist

Banned
Banned
What does all of this have anything to do with the fact that Melteer was recorded specifically laying out to the T how JFK was going to be killed, how they were going to frame someone "just to throw the public off" weeks before the fact... and then bragging about it after the fact?
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
What does all of this have anything to do with the fact that Melteer was recorded specifically laying out to the T how JFK was going to be killed, how they were going to frame someone "just to throw the public off" weeks before the fact... and then bragging about it after the fact?

Who is that directed to?
 

BombDr

Senior Member.
Anybody who felt the need to telegraph that details of the official story give the operation any validity when the fact is the operation has been exposed as a total fraud.

Sorry, Im a bit of a dumbass: what does that mean?
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Mrs. Kennedy is trying to find out what is wrong after the first shot that hit him. If she is imparting any kind of backwards force upon him and he is resisting and the head shot kills him instantly then it is a possibility that the sudden action of him going limp caused her to push him back.

The bullet causing him to fly back is movie physics. It just doesn't happen that way in real life. No official story needed to remove that particular piece of bunk.

To me it looked as if he got hit in the neck and grabbed at it, she looks as if she's wondering "what's wrong", leads towards him, then the other bullet hits him.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
So you're saying officials only tell the truth so we might as well not question their conclusions? The term "conspiracy theory" was an admitted CIA psyop as mentioned before to make us dismiss any idea that powerful people might get together and plan something. This recorded convo proves that there was a "conspiracy" and it can't be debunked.

How come when anyone questions a conspiracy theorist, they're immediatly accused of believing officials only tell the truth, or accused of saying don't question, officials only tell the truth?
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
How come when anyone questions a conspiracy theorist, they're immediatly accused of believing officials only tell the truth, or accused of saying don't question, officials only tell the truth?
Maybe it's the same reason as when a person questions a debunker, there might be a tendency to view that person as believing in aliens, HAARP conspiracies, 9/11 conspiracy, etc.
What I'm saying is it's just a tendency. Not all CT believers are this way.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Maybe it's the same reason as when a person questions a debunker, there might be a tendency to view that person as believing in aliens, HAARP conspiracies, 9/11 conspiracy, etc.
What I'm saying is it's just a tendency. Not all CT believers are this way.

Most do though. Rarely does a CTer believe only one or two conspiracies. It's like potato chips, bet you can't eat just one.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Maybe it's the same reason as when a person questions a debunker, there might be a tendency to view that person as believing in aliens, HAARP conspiracies, 9/11 conspiracy, etc.
What I'm saying is it's just a tendency. Not all CT believers are this way.

But the idea that someone would believe "officials" always tell the truth is just silly. Nobody believes that.
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
But the idea that someone would believe "officials" always tell the truth is just silly. Nobody believes that.
But, I think some people really do think that, because they haven't put much effort into believing anything else. If it fits their worldview...
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
You'd have to show me someone.
Simply go on YouTube, search for conspiracy type stuff (dahboo7 peekay22 Max malone etc etc) and read the comments, you'll find plenty of users on there that fit this description. Those people are hardcore 'the world is out to get us and if you don't believe you're in on it' kinda folks.
I personally don't associate with them, for obvious reasons.
 

Ron J

Active Member

According CIA documents declassified under the Freedom of Information Act, CIA played an instrumental role in propagandizing the impossible conclusions of the Warren Commission as reported by the New York Times "Cable Sought to Discredit Critics of Warren Report."

It seems that even when those responsible are on record bragging about it, those subjected to the admitted CIA psyops still buy into the Commission report like obedient, unquestioning slaves. It's ironic how rather than truly being "skeptical" and questioning everything, they appear to be only concerned with defending their pre-existing beliefs no matter how impossible and outrageous they are as evidenced by their unquestioning support of the "magic bullet theory".


There is no magic bullet theory. There is a single bullet theory.

There is no evidence that the bullet which struck JFK in the back, struck anything other than Connally, after exiting JFK's throat.

In the Zapruder film, simultaneous reflex reactions, consistent with their non fatal gunshot wounds, were visible in the film. JFK's arms and JBC's right arm sprang up at the same time. Both men displayed rapid body movements at the same time. Watching the Zapruder film at play speed, JBC's, movement looked as if he jumped from one position to another, as if forcibly moved. The lapel on JBC's suit jumped at Z224. Connally's expression changed at Z224, while Kennedy showed a look of shock on his face when he appeared a frame later at Z225.

The conclusions of the Warren Report were hardly impossible. They were based on the physical and circumstantial evidence. Critics have spent an inordinate amount of time and effort to portray some fanciful grand conspiracy as being the cause of JFK's death.

How many people have been portrayed as the "real killer" of JFK? James Files, Rosco White, Saul, etc., etc. It was Johnson, it was the mob, it was the CIA.

But no conspiracy proponent can prove anything. Just a lot of accusations that form impossible conclusions.
 

Ron J

Active Member
With all due respect sir, retroactively proving " spasm " seems a more difficult burden, even in the spirit of debunking, then making a plausible case for straight shots being the reason a shooting victim would grab his throat, seemingly have only his head ( and perhaps his upper torso) snap straight back, and have bits of brain and skull matter spewing behind him after the head shot. Perhaps that's all speculative but I think its a fact - given the visual evidence of Emile Zapruders' film reel and the dozens of witnesses corroborating some or all of what I just wrote - that that speculation is way more credible then spasm. I'm not crazy about conspiracies theories either sir but I'm also not crazy enough to think that people don't conspire..


Referring to the Zfilm.

JFK's right arm jumped up and fell to his side, just after he was shot in the head. Visual evidence of spasm.

Blood went in all directions, including spewing behind him, because his head exploded. Also the limo was moving forward.
 

Ron J

Active Member
Has anyone here actually witnessed what a high power assault rifle can do to a living target? Serious question. I'm asking that because the assertion that it wouldn't impart the violent momentum on display in the Zapruder film is false - and should really tie up that aspect of this debate . I don't know what happened that day except that a man was shot in the head and overwhelming forensic evidence, eye witness corroboration, and of course video taped evidence lmao shows that the chances of Oswald pulling off this murder is infetismal at best and likely not at all possible. I don't get " debunkers " on this one ( or the 9/11 report ) This isn't chemtrails. This isn't Niburu. This is a murder , caught on video no less , and the debunking community is trying to prove an official theory that's so suspicious and outlandish just on its own textual merits alone, to be true. Try to solve this murder, because it was not solved. I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist whatsoever and with that said I believe that the way debunkers go about defending the Warren Commission ( and the 911 report) is a deplorable and a sick display of codependency to Americanism. And in both cases humans were violently murdered and justice was never meted.


The murder was solved. It is just that a lot of people don't want to believe it.

Oswald was perfectly capable of committing the crime. It was his rifle. His rifle was missing from the garage where it was stored at the home he unexpectedly visited the night before the shooting. He took a completely enclosed package to work. One would want to completely enclose a rifle. Oswald worked on the 6th floor that day. Oswald could not be independently accounted for at the time of the shooting.

It may have been somewhat lucky that he hit JFK in the head, but he was not shooting at a distance of over 100 yards.

When his brother Robert sat with him in the jail, he looked into Lee's eyes and Lee responded, don't bother looking in there, you won't find anything. That is not what an innocent man says to his brother.
 

Alchemist

Banned
Banned
The murder was solved. It is just that a lot of people don't want to believe it.

Oswald was perfectly capable of committing the crime. It was his rifle. His rifle was missing from the garage where it was stored at the home he unexpectedly visited the night before the shooting. He took a completely enclosed package to work. One would want to completely enclose a rifle. Oswald worked on the 6th floor that day. Oswald could not be independently accounted for at the time of the shooting.

It may have been somewhat lucky that he hit JFK in the head, but he was not shooting at a distance of over 100 yards.

When his brother Robert sat with him in the jail, he looked into Lee's eyes and Lee responded, don't bother looking in there, you won't find anything. That is not what an innocent man says to his brother.
Did you even read the thread?

In the intercepted recording, Milteer specifically states that there is a plan in the works to kill JFK "from an office building with a high powered rifle" two weeks before it happened and then goes on to state how they will frame someone right afterwards to "throw the public off." This intercepted conversation INVALIDATES and EXPOSES the official narrative as BUNK and COMPLETE FRAUD.

LOL @ "a lot of people don't want to believe it." The irony is killing me.
 
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Ron J

Active Member
Did you even read the thread?

In the intercepted recording, Milteer specifically states that there is a plan in the works to kill JFK "from an office building with a high powered rifle" two weeks before it happened and then goes on to state how they will frame someone right afterwards to "throw the public off." This intercepted conversation INVALIDATES and EXPOSES the official narrative as BUNK and COMPLETE FRAUD.

LOL @ "a lot of people don't want to believe it." The irony is killing me.


The conversation doesn't invalidate anything. The evidence pointed to Oswald. It doesn't matter if there were 150 concurrent plots to kill JFK, the evidence pointed to Oswald.

Oswald went to where his wife stayed, the night before the shooting. His rifle was there. He took a completely enclosed package to work the next day, the day of the shooting. A rifle would be an object one would want to completely enclose, in order to hide it. Oswald was working on the 6th floor, where a man was seen shooting from. Oswald's rifle was found on the 6th floor, the floor he was working on that day.

The evidence pointed to Oswald as being the person who shot JFK.

That Oswald showed up unexpectedly at his wife's residence on a week night, the night before the shooting and took a completely enclosed package to work the next day, indicated he was not framed, especially right afterwards, as you state Milteer said.

Lee's brother Robert, sat with him in jail. Robert said he looked at his brother and Lee responded, don't bother looking in there, you won't find anything. Lee wasn't being framed, despite his public proclamation of being a patsy.


A lot of people don't want to believe it, but Oswald was the person who shot JFK.
 

Alchemist

Banned
Banned
The conversation doesn't invalidate anything. The evidence pointed to Oswald. It doesn't matter if there were 150 concurrent plots to kill JFK, the evidence pointed to Oswald.

Oswald went to where his wife stayed, the night before the shooting. His rifle was there. He took a completely enclosed package to work the next day, the day of the shooting. A rifle would be an object one would want to completely enclose, in order to hide it. Oswald was working on the 6th floor, where a man was seen shooting from. Oswald's rifle was found on the 6th floor, the floor he was working on that day.

The evidence pointed to Oswald as being the person who shot JFK.

That Oswald showed up unexpectedly at his wife's residence on a week night, the night before the shooting and took a completely enclosed package to work the next day, indicated he was not framed, especially right afterwards, as you state Milteer said.

Lee's brother Robert, sat with him in jail. Robert said he looked at his brother and Lee responded, don't bother looking in there, you won't find anything. Lee wasn't being framed, despite his public proclamation of being a patsy.


A lot of people don't want to believe it, but Oswald was the person who shot JFK.
The conversation SPECIFIED that there was a PLAN to have him killed and LAID IT OUT EXACTLY as it was going to happen (down to the type of weapon used and the way it was going to be used) and how someone else was going to be FRAMED for it to throw YOU OFF. Milteer even BRAGGED ABOUT IT afterwards.

Do you really think they wouldn't cover their tracks and take extensive precautions to corroborate the "official story"? It took more than 30 years before the Gulf of Tonkin was exposed as a hoax.

The official story was a hoax and they're bragging about how they pulled it off and laughing at you.
 

Ron J

Active Member
The conversation SPECIFIED that there was a PLAN to have him killed and LAID IT OUT EXACTLY as it was going to happen (down to the type of weapon used and the way it was going to be used) and how someone else was going to be FRAMED for it to throw YOU OFF. Milteer even BRAGGED ABOUT IT afterwards.

Do you really think they wouldn't cover their tracks and take extensive precautions to corroborate the "official story"? It took more than 30 years before the Gulf of Tonkin was exposed as a hoax.

The official story was a hoax and they're bragging about how they pulled it off and laughing at you.


Oswald is the one laughing.

The conversation laid what out exactly? What make and model weapon and from what building in what city on what day, by what person?

Milteer couldn't frame Oswald. It was Oswald's rifle that was found on the sixth floor and Oswald had unexpectedly dropped by his wife's home the night before the shooting. Oswald took a completely enclosed package to work with him the next day. The rifle was in the package. Oswald worked on the 6th floor that day and the gunman was seen shooting from the sixth floor. Oswald would have been the person using Oswald's rifle.

Oswald proclaimed in public that he was a patsy, but that is not what he told his brother. Oswald wasn't framed. Oswald was the person who shot JFK.

James Files claimed he was the one who killed JFK. Saul claimed he killed JFK. I remember watching a PBS program back in the 90's in which the lawyer for some mobster, claimed the mobster admitted to it.
The name Rogano comes to mind, but i am not sure whether that is the correct name. Isn't there also a Hunt death bed confession. In the book Texas Connection, it was claimed that Johnson had JFK killed.

Hugh Huggins claimed David Ferrie plotted the assassination, with shooter #1 being Charles Harrelson, #2 being Frank Sturgis, #3 Charles Rogers and mystery man #4 shooting from the Book Depository.

So take your pick among a number of claimed "real" killers of JFK.
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
And can a paintball gun seriously be compared to a live ammo rifle lolol...even a 22?!?

Probably chiming in a little late on this one, but the key difference here that nobody mentioned is that one is designed to burst on impact while the other is designed to pierce flesh. The subject's reaction depends on the bullet's shape, where it strikes, and how or whether it exits the body
 
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