Claims of Advanced Tech Recovered from UFOs

[Ann K]

This too:
https://www.space.com/yellow-egyptian-glass-made-by-meteorite-impact.html

Also Tut possibly inherited meteoric iron dagger. Was originally gift from Mitanni or something

I didn't know that. Thanks!
There are also fulgurites, glass formed from sand vitrified by a lightning strike.

Sand, of course, is in plentiful supply in Egypt, and the absence of covering vegetation means that meteorites are easily visible, at least until the sand hides them. That lack of vegetation is also responsible for the relative ease in finding meteorites in Antarctica.

 

[purpleivan]

There are also fulgurites, glass formed from sand vitrified by a lightning strike.

Sand, of course, is in plentiful supply in Egypt, and the absence of covering vegetation means that meteorites are easily visible, at least until the sand hides them. That lack of vegetation is also responsible for the relative ease in finding meteorites in Antarctica.

Thanks for that. I was trying to remember the kind of glass formed by natural vitrification, used in a scarab pendant, found in Tutankhamun's tomb.

 

[Todd Feinman]

Pity almost all the other pharaohs' tombs were looted. Hard to imagine the wonderful things that must have been in some of them.

 

[Ann K]

Thanks for that. I was trying to remember the kind of glass formed by natural vitrification, used in a scarab pendant, found in Tutankhamun's tomb.

Take a look at the article referenced in @Todd Feinman 's post. It's believed to have been caused by a meteorite's air burst.

 

[Andreas]

Honestly, TTSA was just following in their footsteps.

Yeah, I mean, materials "recovered from flying saucers" have long been an important part of the lore. To be a real contactee, one needs to have at least one artifact from a flying saucer. Here's an extraterrestrial ring and a "staff" kindly given to Swedish contactee Gösta Carlsson. (And to protect himself from the "radiation"—or just to be on the safe side—he kept the items in a tin box marked "Dangerous".)

This is just the same story, with the same ingredients, taking place in a slightly different context. But just because you're a former intelligence officer (or a former rock star), the story you tell and the object you find don't become any more authentic than the artifacts shown to us by people like Carlsson.

 

[John J.]

The idea that material from crashed UFOs can be recovered and used goes back possibly to the late 19th century. The idea of using material from supposed crashed UFOs for financial gain goes back at least to the late '40s.

Musing along those lines,
Boris and Arkady Strugatsky's 1972 novel Roadside Picnic has characters retrieving ETI artefacts scattered at a small number of areas, "zones", which had experienced simultaneous alien visitations some years earlier. The items are sometimes useful, although poorly understood; some offer the promise of breakthrough technologies. Some are dangerous.
The authorities have cordoned off the now hazardous, and depopulated, zones. Access is restricted, but cautious research continues.
A few people, called stalkers, earn a living by entering the zones illegally in search of alien artefacts. This is exceptionally risky but potential rewards are high.

I like the premise, which I think is more original than many first contact scenarios in fiction.

It seems that at the time of the Visitation, any humans in the zones were overcome with confusion and chaos, perhaps worse.
There are no surviving descriptions of aliens or their craft, or any records of communication. There is no clue as to why the aliens were here.
A scientist draws an analogy with young people having a roadside picnic in the countryside: They arrive in their cars, light a bonfire, play music and drink while the local wildlife hides and cowers. After the picnickers have left, the animals emerge to find detritus: bottles, some coins, a discarded sparkplug, a wrench, flowers picked in a different meadow. Their functions or meaning are of course incomprehensible.

...the Visitors may not have paid any attention to or even noticed Earth's inhabitants during their visit, just as many humans do not notice or pay attention to insects and wildlife during a picnic. The artifacts and phenomena that are left behind by the Visitors in the Zones were garbage, which are discarded and forgotten without any intentions to advance or damage humanity.

Wikipedia, Roadside Picnic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadside_Picnic

Probably not well-known in popular culture but reasonably well-known amongst SF fans; the first US edition* of Roadside Picnic in 1977 had a forward by acclaimed SF author Theodore Sturgeon.
Tarkovsky's 1979 film Stalker (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalker_(1979_film)) is based on Roadside Picnic, and is highly regarded by film critics.


*The Strugatsky brothers were Russian, the novel was first published in Russia. The novel appears to be set in Canada (maybe Australia, New Zealand).
I remember being struck by how often the various characters drank vodka; the authors, in early 70s Russia, might have had little exposure to information about habits in Western countries.

 

[FatPhil]

Musing along those lines,
Boris and Arkady Strugatsky's 1972 novel Roadside Picnic has characters retrieving ETI artefacts scattered at a small number of areas, "zones", which had experienced simultaneous alien visitations some years earlier. The items are sometimes useful, although poorly understood; some offer the promise of breakthrough technologies. Some are dangerous.
The authorities have cordoned off the now hazardous, and depopulated, zones.

...

Probably not well-known in popular culture but reasonably well-known amongst SF fans; the first US edition* of Roadside Picnic in 1977 had a forward by acclaimed SF author Theodore Sturgeon.
Tarkovsky's 1979 film Stalker (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalker_(1979_film)) is based on Roadside Picnic, and is highly regarded by film critics.

The "zone" was indeed hazardous. However, the mundane explanation is that with the soviets in power, polution was rife. And no, I'm not talking about the story, I'm talking about the making of the film:

Several people involved in the film production, and possibly Tarkovsky himself, died from causes that some crew members attributed to the film's long shooting schedule in toxic locations. Sound designer Vladimir Sharun recalled:

We were shooting near Tallinn in the area around the small river Jägala with a half-functioning hydroelectric station. Up the river was a chemical plant and it poured out poisonous liquids downstream. There is even this shot in Stalker: snow falling in the summer and white foam floating down the river. In fact it was some horrible poison. Many women in our crew got allergic reactions on their faces. Tarkovsky died from cancer of the right bronchial tube. And Anatoly Solonitsyn too. That it was all connected to the location shooting for Stalker became clear to me when Larisa Tarkovskaya died from the same illness in Paris.[29]

-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalker_(1979_film)

I'm pleased to say that after several decades of independence we've cleaned things up, and our brewery even holds its beer festival in one of the filming locations ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallinn_Power_Plant ). However, no amount of beer will make it a watchable movie.

 

[owntheissue]

Could you provide such there? Wold be handy...

Citations?
1960's was Veselagos '67 paper laying out the modern definiton : think it was in Russian but plenty of stuff about Veselago/Metamaterials via Wiki/Google
1998 was Fouche's 1998 talk - linked in the post you quote.
2010 is https://arxiv.org/abs/1009.5663 - am fairly sure this the first time someone publicly provided any math to support the idea of metamaterials facilitating macroscopic propulsion (note 12 years after Fouche ).
2017: Is TTSA claims as reported here .
When posting I recalled from an interview with Justice (that I cant find easily now).

Gemini says he did - but might just be trying to please me:

1. The To The Stars Academy official launch presentation (October 2017).
2. The official TTSA press release for the ADAM Project (July 25, 2019), where Justice is directly quoted on transitioning these materials into "commercial and military capabilities" to build futuristic craft.

 

[John J.]

2017: Is TTSA claims as reported here .

The linked-to article is about the debunked magnesium-zinc-bismuth-lead scrap, thread AARO Releases Lab Report on Alleged Alien Metamaterial. @NorCal Dave, @MonkeeSage and others have told us about the whole saga.

It's not of extraterrestrial origin. The UFO enthusiasts who originally had access to it claimed it was a terahertz waveguide and to have antigravity properties (even to levitate IIRC), but none of this was correct. It is hard to understand why TTS and others made the claims they did.

If To The Stars have access to, or knowledge of, real breakthrough technologies, there's no evidence of it.
They don't appear to be capitalizing on it. TTS isn't a technology manufacturer, nor does it conduct practical materials research of any kind AFAIK.
In terms of TTS' products and development lines, they mainly seem to be T-shirts, baseball caps, sauces and videos about UFOs
https://tothestars.media/en-gb/collections/all-products

 

[Gary C]

Citations?
...
2010 is https://arxiv.org/abs/1009.5663 - am fairly sure this the first time someone publicly provided any math to support the idea of metamaterials facilitating macroscopic propulsion (note 12 years after Fouche ).
...

From the abstract:

Metamaterial-based model of the Alcubierre warp drive

Igor I. Smolyaninov

Electromagnetic metamaterials are capable of emulating many exotic space-time geometries, such as black holes, rotating cosmic strings, and the big bang singularity. Here we present a metamaterial-based model of the Alcubierre warp drive, and study its limitations due to available range of material parameters. It appears that the material parameter range introduces strong limitations on the achievable "warp speed", so that ordinary magnetoelectric materials cannot be used. On the other hand, newly developed "perfect" bi-anisotropic non-reciprocal magnetoelectric metamaterials should be capable of emulating the physics of warp drive gradually accelerating up to 1/4c.

[Two segments bolded by me]

You should read that as a great many "ifs".
If you could create a meta material with the desired electromagnetic properties and
If you could build the (unproven) Alcubierre device and
If you generated the astronomical levels of energy needed to power such a device
Then you "should" be able to emulate the math of said 'warp drive' in the lab at a minute fraction of said power requirement to see if you learn anything.

Trying to link that to what TTSA is doing/has done is frankly wishful thinking.

By way of example, this video explains how emulating the event horizon of a black hole using another physical system looks in the laboratory. No black holes were harmed in making this video.


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_nTWdg_neE

 

[Gary C]

Also the claims depends on the existence not just of UFOs but ones that have "crashed."

Why did it crash?
Why should it crash?
Why does it need a pilot?

The crashed UFO is a trope, not a fact. Some discussion here - https://www.metabunk.org/threads/th...-culture-in-the-changing-ufo-narrative.14506/

 

[NorCal Dave]

2010 is https://arxiv.org/abs/1009.5663 - am fairly sure this the first time someone publicly provided any math to support the idea of metamaterials facilitating macroscopic propulsion (note 12 years after Fouche ).

I think we're talking past each other a bit here. My fault, as I'm using the common UFO world meaning of "meta-materials". There is a a proper use of the word in material sciences:

A metamaterial (from the Greek word μετά meta, meaning "beyond" or "after", and the Latin word materia, meaning "matter" or "material") is any material engineered to have a property that is not found in naturally occurring materials.[3] They are made from assemblies of multiple elements fashioned from composite materials such as metals and plastics.

Their precise shape, geometry, size, orientation and arrangement gives them their smart properties capable of manipulating electromagnetic waves: by blocking, absorbing, enhancing, or bending waves, to achieve benefits that go beyond what is possible with conventional materials

Appropriately designed metamaterials can affect waves of electromagnetic radiation or sound in a manner not observed in bulk materials

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamaterial)

Some quotes from the paper linked indicate the author was likely using the proper term for meta-materials:

Below we will find out what kind of metamaterial geometry is needed to emulate a laboratory model of the warp drive, so that we can build more understanding of the physics involved. It appears that the available range of material parameters
introduces strong limitations on the possible "warp speed".

Nevertheless, our results demonstrate that physics of a gradually accelerating warp drive can be modeled based
on newly developed "perfect" magnetoelectric metamaterials [17].

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1009.5663

In modern UFOlogy, "meta-materials" is a term that is often tossed around for pieces or samples supposedly derived from crashed UFOs.

The official TTSA press release for the ADAM Project (July 25, 2019), where Justice is directly quoted on transitioning these materials into "commercial and military capabilities" to build futuristic craft.

TTSA and Justice were not talking about meta-materials in the same way the author of the above paper was. The July 25, 2019 press release from TTSA, with quotes for Justice make it very clear and unquestionable that they were talking about Art's Parts (bold by me):

The ownership of these assets, which were previously retained and studied by investigative journalist Linda Moulton Howe and are reported to have come from an advanced aerospace vehicle of unknown origin, allows TTSA to conduct rigorous scientific evaluations to determine its function and possible applications.

"The structure and composition of these materials are not from any known existing military or commercial application," says Steve Justice, current COO of To The Stars Academy and former head of Advanced Systems at Lockheed Martin's "Skunk Works." "They've been collected from sources with varying levels of chain-of-custody documentation, so we are focusing on verifiable facts and working to develop independent scientific proof of the materials' properties and attributes.

In some cases, the manufacturing technology required to fabricate the material is only now becoming available, but the material has been in documented possession since the mid-1990's.

https://archive.is/VxZtZ#selection-209.474-209.658

There was even a photo accompanying the text:

There is no doubt, this is the piece of layered bismuth and magnesium that was mailed to Art Bell in the '90s. There is nothing extraterrestrial or advanced terrestrial about this. At best, it may be from a failed attempt to create a missile casing, something Kirkpatrick hinted out once. More likely it's a piece of industrial slag from lead smelting.

It is not a meta-material in any sense of the word. It's not a real meta-material that can manipulate magnetic fields, nor in the UFOlogical use of the word as something from a crashed UFO.

 

[owntheissue]

It's not of extraterrestrial origin. The UFO enthusiasts who originally had access to it claimed it was a terahertz waveguide and to have antigravity properties (even to levitate IIRC), but none of this was correct.

We agree!
It's not of extraterrestrial origin. You know it , I know it , everybody knows it.
My point is you cant explain Mellons (former top civilian black projects tsar) or Justices (former LM special Projects head honcho) claims it was on the basis they are confused or ignorant.

Does anyone honestly believe Jutice was tricked into being associated with such claims?

If not- we need a motive.

It is hard to understand why TTS and others made the claims they did.

No - it is impossible to understand why an organisation like the US army with it's retained PhD' SME expertise across physics /materials science would enter into a CRADA with that wording.
Claims of mass reduction (whilst not losing mass) are controversial - even if it's an ex LM employee and his CIA buddies making them.

 

[MonkeeSage]

No - it is impossible to understand why an organisation like the US army with it's retained PhD' SME expertise across physics /materials science would enter into a CRADA with that wording.
Claims of mass reduction (whilst not losing mass) are controversial - even if it's an ex LM employee and his CIA buddies making them.

This seems to be a thing that happens sometimes, for whatever reason. Another example is Salvatore Pais, who was paid a half million dollars by the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division to investigate his dubious "Pais Effect" (claimed to cancel inertial mass) for 3 years before the project was shuttered without producing any results. He even got a patent issued for it under NAWCAD (and of course he is still on the UFO circuit claiming it is real and the patent proves it).

The motivation from the military for such endeavors could be FOMO. If you have someone who appears to be a credentialed expert (like Hal Puthoff in the case of TTSA) claiming there may be an exotic effect or material, why not enter into a CRADA or throw half a million at it. If it's true it could be easily pay for the time and money, and if not, it's not a huge loss. I'm not sure that's the best policy, but I could see how someone could think like that.

Pais thread is here:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/us-navy-ufo-patent-by-salvatore-cezar-pais.12080/

 

[Gary C]

This seems to be a thing that happens sometimes, for whatever reason. Another example is Salvatore Pais, who was paid a half million dollars by the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division to investigate his dubious "Pais Effect" (claimed to cancel inertial mass) for 3 years before the project was shuttered without producing any results. He even got a patent issued for it under NAWCAD (and of course he is still on the UFO circuit claiming it is real and the patent proves it).

The motivation from the military for such endeavors could be FOMO. If you have someone who appears to be a credentialed expert (like Hal Puthoff in the case of TTSA) claiming there may be an exotic effect or material, why not enter into a CRADA or throw half a million at it. If it's true it could be easily pay for the time and money, and if not, it's not a huge loss. I'm not sure that's the best policy, but I could see how someone could think like that.

Pais thread is here:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/us-navy-ufo-patent-by-salvatore-cezar-pais.12080/

IMHO there is more often than not a congress critter in the loop helping out a 'constituent' for reasons ranging from the prosaic to the perverse. Sen. Harry Reid comes to mind.

 

[owntheissue]

The motivation from the military for such endeavors could be FOMO. If you have someone who appears to be a credentialed expert (like Hal Puthoff in the case of TTSA) claiming there may be an exotic effect or material, why not enter into a CRADA or throw half a million at it.

Fair points but materials which experience mass reduction whilst not losing mass is absolutely the most remarkable claim I've seen in any CRADA.
Fair enough if you have 1 proof positive bench experiment done by a credible solid state matter SME to justify - but that is not Puthoff nor anyone at TTSA.

The names of the people on the US Army side of the deal were public at one point- so unless they were actively looking for a court martial on fraud/ financial negligence - I can only assume there was at least some none publicly available "proof" to facilitate the CRADA (if it wasn't just a CIA game).

Dont like the idea of none publicly available proofs - and you dont see them that often in anything to do with Millitary/Intel unless it is in some disinfo capacity.

Funnily enough - another example of a credible person using that same MO was US NAVY CTO James Sheehy's vouch for Pais with the patent examiner.
Think the word "operable" was used when describing why the "Pais effect/HAUC" worked.
It was never explained what this meant or what happened next to result in the successful patents.

It's also notable these 2 examples of "trust me bro" happened within a short period of time.

 

[NorCal Dave]

The names of the people on the US Army side of the deal were public at one point- so unless they were actively looking for a court martial on fraud/ financial negligence - I can only assume there was at least some none publicly available "proof" to facilitate the CRADA (if it wasn't just a CIA game).

"Proof" of what? The piece of junk TTSA had was alien? The piece of junk TTSA had could facilitate "mass reduction without losing mass"? The piece showed up in Art's mailbox in '96, so presumably it was around before that. Whoever mailed it, had to scrounge it up somewhere. It was in a 2nd tranche of samples sent by the same person. As the first tranche included bits of car radiators and other everyday items, it seems likely this piece was equally un-exiotic.

Its composition has been public, if obscure, since at least '96-'97, Howe had it tested repeatedly. IF there were the slightest possibility this particular sample had ANY sort of remarkable properties, some contractor with expertise in the required fields would have developed it, or at least tried. As bismuth had a price spike (2018), prior TTSA's announcement of the CRADA and then settled back down, one would a assume nothing came of these claims and the bismuth market continued along as usual:

https://www.coinlore.com/coin/bismuth/historical-data

Given that the US is almost completely import reliant, IF this sample had had any exotic properties, one would assume the government, particularly the Trump administration who's tariffs effect its import, would have arranged for some sort of national production:

Bismuth was last produced domestically as a byproduct of lead refining at a Nebraska refinery that closed in 1997. The last stocks of bismuth in the National Defense Stockpile were sold that same year. Some domestic firms continued to recycle bismuth alloy scrap; however, data were unavailable to make estimates of secondary production for 2018.

https://pubs.usgs.gov/myb/vol1/2018/myb1-2018-bismuth.pdf
Just a side note, but if lead smelting ended in '97 and this sample is a by-product of that process as many suspect, then all of Howe's research with companies like Dow and others was pointless. It's not a manufactured sample, it's a by-product of lead smelting in its intermediate form before the bismuth is recovered and sold.

Bottom line, there was nothing to the sample TTSA provided for the CRADA.

Before invoking a CIA plot or some 4D chess game of subterfuge about a secret technology that Mellon or Justice were aware of, a quick historical look, particularly with some of the people involved at TTSA, shows that trying to procure a few dollars from the government is a standard practice.

Hal Putoff was using government funds to study Psy and spoon-bending back in the '70s:

In 1972, physicists Harold E. Puthoff and Russell Targ undertook a series of investigations of psychic phenomena sponsored by the CIA, for which they coined the term remote viewing.[57][58][59][unreliable source?] Among other activities, the project encompassed the work of consulting "consciousness researchers" including artist/writer Ingo Swann, military intelligence officer Joseph McMoneagle, and psychic/illusionist Uri Geller.[60] This ESP work continued with funding from the US intelligence community until Puthoff and Targ left SRI in the mid-1980s.[61][62] For more information, see Parapsychology research at SRI.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRI_International

His some time employee and UFO buddy, Eric Davis nabbed $25k from the Air Force for a useless paper on teleportation:

The Air Force paid $25,000 to a researcher at a company in Las Vegas called Warp Drive Metrics.

What they got back was 78 pagesof mathematical calculations and diagrams. And after much talk of "wormholes" and "parallel universes," came a conclusion: "We are still very far away from being able to entangle and teleport human beings and bulk inanimate objects," reads page 46 of the report (PDF file).

In other words, says Heil: "The concept of transporting any large amount of matter is highly impractical and looks to be highly impractical well into the future."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna6940417

After getting Robert Bigelow to pay them to chase UFOs, and the paranormal at Skinwalker Ranch for Bigelow's NIDS program, Puthoff and Davis were in on the government paid version, AAWSAP. Puthoff contracted to provide "research papers" as part of the $22M program, with he and Davis collecting payment for a few of the papers they wrote:

They nearly got the government to fund yet another UFO/paranormal program for them at DHS with the failed KONA BLUE program.

As for the CRADA with the Army, TTSA stood to make nothing upfront:

Unlike traditional contracts, cooperative research and development agreements, or CRADAs, are not transactional, so TTSA isn't getting any money from the partnership and the Army won't be directly acquiring any new tech. Rather, the agreement will help the Army expand its understanding of metamaterials and other technologies, and allow TTSA to conduct an in-depth analysis of the materials in its possession, Halleaux said.

The Army was doing the research for them about whatever bits of junk they had. More importantly, this gave TTSA street cred at a time they were looking for investors. Always remember, TTSA was looking for investors and one of their selling points was that they had special materials, possibly from crashed UFOs and now the Army is interested. Better invest now while one can?

As seemed to the the case with TTSA, it sounds like the blew a lot of smoke at the Army about all these whiz-bang technologies they might have had to entice them:

Specifically, the Army wants to explore a handful of futuristic materials and technologies the group has either studied or has in its possession, including inertial mass reduction, quantum communications, beamed energy propulsion, active camouflage and directed photon projection. The Army also plans to study the "mechanical and [electromagnetic] sensitive" metamaterials—a type of synthetic material that can manipulate light and other waves—the group collected "as part of its field operations."

In the short-term, Army researchers are particularly interested in studying how those metamaterials could improve "camouflage, concealment, deception and obscuration" capabilities of their ground vehicles, Doug Halleaux, a spokesperson for the Combat Capabilities Development Command, told Nextgov. By manipulating the light waves around a particular object, it's possible for metamaterials to render it virtually invisible.

Did the Army think this stuff was from UFOs? Apparently not, though they were aware that TTSA was making those claims:

Though he called the recent CRADA "one of the more adventurous" partnerships he's worked on, Halleaux was quick to dismiss any claims that the Army was studying "alien technology." TTSA may purport the metamaterials and other tech in their possession came from UFOs, but for the Army, those claims are irrelevant, he said.

Ultimately, it seems TTSA did with the Army Combat Development Command what they did with others during the 3 years it was up and running. They leveraged the supposed reputations of the people involved, even if there was nothing alien about any of it:

"Speculation ... as to the origin of materials really to our researchers isn't what matters," Halleaux said. "The reason TTSA was taken seriously is the credentials of the people on their team. These are folks that have backgrounds in industry and backgrounds in materials science and defense work. [They're] serious professionals with respect to backgrounds."

https://www.nextgov.com/emerging-te...tive-camouflage-and-other-sci-fi-tech/160787/

TTSA was all smoke and mirrors looking for investors. The whole thing collapsed in 3 years. With Mellon, just because he was involved with HOW secret programs operated or were classified, it doesn't mean he knew WHAT was in the various programs. Even IF he did have knowledge, he had no way to exploit it.

What Mellon or Justice ultimately believed is unknown, but 7 years later, Mellon is still banging on about alien Disclosure with people like Eric Davis appearing at Mellon's latest shindig for congress repeating every worn out X-Files UFO trope as if they're all real. I don't see where Mellon is playing some sort of 4D chess in an attempt to hide some advanced terrestrial technology he somehow has access to. Very smart people sometimes believe strange things.

Check out this thread for Mellon's Disclosure Fund presentation with Davis, and others, telling fantastical tales with no evidence for any of it:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ua...ith-house-oversight-committee-may-2025.14218/

You can check out this thread for a history of the bits of junk TTSA was passing off as exotic:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/meta-materials-from-ufos.12995/