ParanoidSkeptic2
Active Member
This is a bigger rabbit hole than I originally thought.
First of all, this entire claim is based on a video and I think 3 or 2 witness testimonies. I am aware that witness testimonies are close to useless, I think they should be considered only for the fact that that without the testimonies this becomes a nothing burger of 21 dudes just walking in.
So, in 2012, Aerial Phenomena Investigation team (API for short) received security footage from a hotel manager named Shane Sovar. It's from a hotel in Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada called Sheraton Fallsview Hotel. The video itself is of 2 tall-ish men in black trench coats and black fedora hats walking into the hotel. The video itself is about 4 minutes long but the actual portion that is of interest is from 00:49 to 00:57. The rest of the video is just slowing and reversing of the footage and an interview with the manager, which I will transcribe here as it covers all the allegations.
Source: https://youtu.be/bcToNxPvZAE
Allegedly, when this was all unfolding back between March and July of 2012, the director, founder and investigator of API (Antonio Paris) joined discussion on Above Top Secret as people were interested about it. They asked for the full video however he kept avoiding the question saying that he cannot release it because Shane didn't want to reveal his identity, which is strange considering that in 2008 October there was an article about the UFO sighting he experienced (which is allegedly what the "Men In Black" wanted to interrogate him about):
People started getting restless as none of their questions were being answered so they started saying that it's a hoax. Antonio got annoyed and started using ad hominem attacks and left the site. There are a lot of pages on ATS to this original discussion but thankfully one of the members highlighted key points with links
Interestingly enough, just a few days after that was, API announced that Shane Sovar will be joining the team.
What can be deduced from that is that Sovar has been a ufologist since an early age. This is all looking a bit weird, add onto the fact that API is a largely unknown UFO investigative organisation, makes you wonder why this long time ufologist didn't go to something like MUFON or something, I mean the actual website for API was only registered only 7 months before this entire investigation
Source
Furthermore, after so many people asked for Antonio to release the full footage he finally released the footage promised except that it wasn't raw as promised, it was edited and the footage actually didn't show anything new, it was the same footage, which is inaccessible now so I'm going off of what people, at the time, said, this was about a month after Sovar joined
What a lot of people have pointed out is that this footage, which was allegedly filmed in 2008, did only come to light in 2012 around April time, which was really close to the release of men in black 3
A user on ATS looked at the pattern/logo of the rugs and they changed between 2012 and when this was recorded, the user contacted the desk and asked when they were changed an apparenlty they were changed sometime in March 2011 which means this had been filmed sometime before that
Some final key points to note is that when you go on the website, there is no mention of Antonio or Sovar, their earliest case is listed as November of 2012 as shown below, and all the videos and channels relating to this have been taken down, it looks like Antonio and Sovar are not associated with API anymore and they went out of their way to remove any mention of this alleged incident, you have to look quite far to find all the additional information on this which I will mention in a separate post below why I actually wanted this covered
Anyway, what most people seem to think that these are orthodox Jews or some friends that Sovar hired to corroborate a hoax. Some even think that it may have been a prank set up by their co-workers that got out of hand. Whatever the case, people generally agree that this is a story with inconsistencies as there were many times where the story changed, and the evidence does not provide ground for the extraordinary theory. What do you guys think can be made of this? There seem to be many convinces that this is a hoax, I'm certain this is a hoax.
First of all, this entire claim is based on a video and I think 3 or 2 witness testimonies. I am aware that witness testimonies are close to useless, I think they should be considered only for the fact that that without the testimonies this becomes a nothing burger of 21 dudes just walking in.
So, in 2012, Aerial Phenomena Investigation team (API for short) received security footage from a hotel manager named Shane Sovar. It's from a hotel in Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada called Sheraton Fallsview Hotel. The video itself is of 2 tall-ish men in black trench coats and black fedora hats walking into the hotel. The video itself is about 4 minutes long but the actual portion that is of interest is from 00:49 to 00:57. The rest of the video is just slowing and reversing of the footage and an interview with the manager, which I will transcribe here as it covers all the allegations.
Source: https://youtu.be/bcToNxPvZAE
The video of course doesn't show much, just them walking in, but what I (and other people online) found curious is that there's only a video of them walking in, no video of them walking out, no video of them walking around, no video of them before they come into the hotel, no video of them at the tourist desk which I found really odd. I seriously doubt that a hotel would only have one camera, but even then, why is there no video of them walking out?Sovar: One of my bellmen approached me and he kind of had a weird look on his face and he said to me: [Bellboy] "Uh, can we go in your office and talk?"
I brought him into my office and he said: [Bellboy] "Uhhh, something really weird happened yesterday and, uh, you weren't here," he said, "uhhhhh, there was a couple of guys here looking for you." And I said: [Sovar] "couple guys? What do you mean?" And he said [Bellboy] "well, uhm, this is really hard for me to say but there's a couple strange looking men that were here, and they kind of freaked everybody out and they were asking questions about you." And of course, now I'm getting a little bit nervous and I'm like [Soar] "what are you talking about?" And he said [Bellboy] "well they were... I don- I don't know how to describe them except for extremely odd looking. They were really, really tall," he said, "and they were identical height- they were the exact same height! They were wearing the exact same clothes and they had the exact same faces, like they were twins," and he said, "they were wearing black suits, black trench coats, they were wearing, uh, old fashion fedora hats; they had extremely, extremely pale skin." And he said [Bellboy] "they came in and they looked around a little bit and they asked for you and I said 'I'm sorry, he's actually not working today' and it seemed like they didn't believe me so they started to walk around the hotel and shortly after they went to the tour desk," and he goes, "I got busy, I started to have to bring cars around and get luggage, annnnd by the time I came back they were gone! But, "he goes, "they freaked me out and I really wanted to tell you that there was these weird guys in here looking for you."
So, of course, now I'm a little bit skeptical and I'm a little freaked out all at the same time, so the first thing I do is run into my security office ('cause I know how to work the security system) and I rewound the cameras and sure enough, there, here comes two gentlemen through the front door looking exactly how he described; then the next day I was talking with my, uh, tour desk and one of them, uhm, asked to talk to me.
She came in my office, the same as my bellman, and she said [Tour desk] "I need to tell you about something that happened! I heard that you heard that there were some men looking for you." And I said [Sovar] "yes," and she said, [Tour desk] "they asked a few questions about you and they said strange things that I didn't understand, they were talking about governments and conspiracies and none of it made any sense to me," but she goes, "they were very, very scary," and I said [Sovar] "well, why were they scary?" And she said [Tour desk] "they had no facial hair, none!" she said "they had no eyebrows, no eyelashes, nothing! Their hair looked like they had a wig on, like it was attached to their hat, like it wasn't even real!" And she said "and the scariest thing, their eyes were so big and so blue that they almost hypnotised me a little bit," and she goes then, "you're gonna think I'm crazy when I tell you this but I swear they knew what I was thinking, I swear, and I don't think I'm crazy but I don't even know how they could do it and I don't know why I'm even telling you this," she goes, "so I started thinking about things other than you and I don't even know if it worked!"
And she started to cry and she said one more thing before she left she said [Tourist desk] "these men, they didn't blink; not once did I see them blink." "
Allegedly, when this was all unfolding back between March and July of 2012, the director, founder and investigator of API (Antonio Paris) joined discussion on Above Top Secret as people were interested about it. They asked for the full video however he kept avoiding the question saying that he cannot release it because Shane didn't want to reveal his identity, which is strange considering that in 2008 October there was an article about the UFO sighting he experienced (which is allegedly what the "Men In Black" wanted to interrogate him about):
Source
Shane Sovar said it was about 10:30 p.m. on Oct. 14 when he was working at one of the hotels overlooking the falls.
"My security officer came out at some point," said Sovar. "He was looking out over the river and said either someone went into the river and they were looking for them or that's a UFO.
"I've never seen a bright light like that," said Sovar. "It wasn't pointing down, it was pointing right at us."
People started getting restless as none of their questions were being answered so they started saying that it's a hoax. Antonio got annoyed and started using ad hominem attacks and left the site. There are a lot of pages on ATS to this original discussion but thankfully one of the members highlighted key points with links
Source
For the benefit of those who landed on this page without actually reading the thread, here is a quick tour of the most significant developments:
The video is a promotion for a new website:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Quote from the website establishing that the hotel is allegedly in Niagara Falls, and that it took place on October 14, 2008:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
First of many posts by Antonio Paris advertising the web page this video is intended to publicize. It is in violation of T&C:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Mr. Paris explicitly claims "paranormal activity"associated with these "Men In Black." (BTW, how do you witness paranormal activity at home when you're staying at a hotel?)
www.abovetopsecret.com...
First, commonsensical, request for footage of the "Men In Black" leaving the hotel.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Mr. Paris claims he has all the footage, but cannot release it because the witness would be identified:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Another common sense flaw in the story:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
First link to actual case file. Note that it does not contain a transcript of any of the actual interviews.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
First link to a contemporary newspaper account of the incident. The witness is positively identified, and the Niagara Falls location independently confirmed.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Visual evidence that there is nothing unusual about the appearance of the "Men In Black."
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Confirmation of witness's identity; identification of hotel as Sheraton Fallsview Hotel,
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Additional confirmation and challenge to release tape.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Mr. Paris politely refuses to answer any questions about the case, claiming that he has had three investigators working on it for months.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Query to determine if the other witnesses who saw the UFO filed reports with MUFON. (If not, how was Mr. Paris able to locate the other witnesses?)
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Tape is confirmed as being prior to 2011:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
A pertinent observation:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Another common sense objection to the story:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Another keen observation:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
The hoax deconstructed:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Mr. Paris takes a swipe at ATS, and concludes by stating that he has permission to release the entire video:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Someone spots holes in Mr. Paris' postings on ATS:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Mr. Paris attempts to steer his followers away from this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Further holes are found in the witnesses' story:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
If you can't read the thread, at least read the highlights.
Interestingly enough, just a few days after that was, API announced that Shane Sovar will be joining the team.
SourceAntonio Paris has recruited Shane Sovar, the hoaxer responsible for the infamous "Men In Black" hoax video, to be "Field Researcher and Investigator for Canada." We now learn that Mr. Sovar "has been interested in UFOlogy since the age of seven and has personally witnessed two UFOs since then." Odd that no mention is made of Mr. Sovar having been the hotel employee who "leaked" the "Men In Black" video.
What can be deduced from that is that Sovar has been a ufologist since an early age. This is all looking a bit weird, add onto the fact that API is a largely unknown UFO investigative organisation, makes you wonder why this long time ufologist didn't go to something like MUFON or something, I mean the actual website for API was only registered only 7 months before this entire investigation
Source
Furthermore, after so many people asked for Antonio to release the full footage he finally released the footage promised except that it wasn't raw as promised, it was edited and the footage actually didn't show anything new, it was the same footage, which is inaccessible now so I'm going off of what people, at the time, said, this was about a month after Sovar joined
Source
So its the same video just rewound a few for times and played really slowly. And the interview is after the video instead of over layed.
Its nothing new or extra to it.
Does not show them leaving
Does not have other angles
Does not have outside footage
and the bell hop STILL does not freak out at the supposed freaky scary and spooky look that these to people supposedly had! I think it proves that its the same damn video and not a release so Antonio Paris, Shane Sovar, and Aerial Phenomenom Research Team still seem like profiters of hoaxing
What a lot of people have pointed out is that this footage, which was allegedly filmed in 2008, did only come to light in 2012 around April time, which was really close to the release of men in black 3
A user on ATS looked at the pattern/logo of the rugs and they changed between 2012 and when this was recorded, the user contacted the desk and asked when they were changed an apparenlty they were changed sometime in March 2011 which means this had been filmed sometime before that
Source
I agree. I thought of that. But I don't know when the video was made. The video was sent to the API team in 2012.
The story of the UFO began in 2008 - that is verified by the Niagara This Week article I linked to earlier ...
But I don't see evidence that the video existed in 2008 ...
Edit ... take that back look at the rugs in the foyer ...
They have the Sheraton logo on them ...
That hotel is now a Marriott ...
Question: When did the hotel change to a Mariott? ...
According to the front desk it changed in March 2011.
Some final key points to note is that when you go on the website, there is no mention of Antonio or Sovar, their earliest case is listed as November of 2012 as shown below, and all the videos and channels relating to this have been taken down, it looks like Antonio and Sovar are not associated with API anymore and they went out of their way to remove any mention of this alleged incident, you have to look quite far to find all the additional information on this which I will mention in a separate post below why I actually wanted this covered
Anyway, what most people seem to think that these are orthodox Jews or some friends that Sovar hired to corroborate a hoax. Some even think that it may have been a prank set up by their co-workers that got out of hand. Whatever the case, people generally agree that this is a story with inconsistencies as there were many times where the story changed, and the evidence does not provide ground for the extraordinary theory. What do you guys think can be made of this? There seem to be many convinces that this is a hoax, I'm certain this is a hoax.
