Claim: "Dogman" spotted on a Facebook livestream

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

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On June 9th of 2020, a Facebook user of the name Shyunique Legacy was livestreaming at around 1 a.m. explaining their encounter with a werewolf/dogman creature. Between 1:20 and 1:30 of the livestream a tall looking creature runs across the frame of the video which prompts the user to shut their door in fear.

Here's a slowed down version for somewhat better view.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/dogman/comments/h809wr/a_better_look_at_the_creature_running_i_Copped/


A frame by frame version someone made

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/dogman/comments/h83sme/realitywhoneedsit_made_this/
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Whatever this creature may be (if it's a creature) it looks to be tall, greyish and appears to be hopping. Most people assume it to be something paranormal like a ghost, the rake, werewolf and the most popular hypothesis being that it's a cryptid under known as "Dogman." Many believers use this livestream as proof that the Dogman exists.

More mundane explanations have been put forth however most of them were dismissed: Smoke from the cigarette (most dismiss this because the creature runs from left to right instead of appearing from the bottom), car lights (dismissed due to the shape of the creature) and normal creatures like a horse or deer (dismissed because of the size of it). Animals even like ostriches, kangaroos and emus have even been proposed but were dismissed due to the unlikelihood of them being in the USA.

Looking through the user's Facebook profile it just looks like an ordinary Facebook profile, leading most to believe that this wasn't pre-planned (although I do have to say that it is quite a coincidence that when the user decided to livestream this occurred, I am aware though that coincidences happen).

The user seems to be based in Fort Pierce, Florida, US.

The main driving force behind people believing it is Dogman is the size, shape and movement of the creature. Someone on reddit attempted to point out that it's just a tall deer but another user dismissed the claims due to comparison of the poll.

An average utility poll is about 35' in Florida

Utility Pole

• Poles range from 20-100 feet tall; the standard pole is 35 feet tall

Source


I did a little bit of rough estimations to estimate that the creature, based on the video is about 11.6 feet or about 3.5m . I used the black spot visible in certain frames as a point of reference

I'm not sure what the creature exactly is but everyone is asserting that this is the "Dogman." At the bottom I'll also post the pictures the user took in their original encounter.

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

Here are the original photos captured by the user of their alleged encounter with the creature.

 

[Mechanik]

This looks like a reflection on glass. You can see what looks like a window/door frame at the left edge of the gif as it starts. I would guess that she was live-streaming and someone darted through the the room behind her while trying not to disturb her livestream.

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

This looks like a reflection on glass. You can see what looks like a window/door frame at the left edge of the gif as it starts. I would guess that she was live-streaming and someone darted through the the room behind her while trying not to disturb her livestream.

Could be that, but would that still apply if she was outside? From the video I believe the phone was outside of the door frame.

 

[Mechanik]

I see what you mean now. I couldn't load the video and was going off of the gif. If we take the person at their word, and they flipped to rear camera, then most likely no glass was in the way.

It is a little suspicious that they were talking about freaking out from weird stuff and then open the door and catch something weird. The shape is transparent which leads me to wonder if this is an older camera which has a hard time imaging dim objects moving quickly through frame.

You get a general view of the setup for the shot and could test my hypothesis by standing in a open door with a light behind you, pointing towards a bright light source, and having someone run past at various distances. It's daytime here or I'd give it a try right now.

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

It is a little suspicious that they were talking about freaking out from weird stuff and then open the door and catch something weird. The shape is transparent which leads me to wonder if this is an older camera which has a hard time imaging dim objects moving quickly through frame.

Yeah, it was very suspicious that the day she decided to prove the werewolf/dogman creature she saw, one just happened to run past.

I agree that the transparency of the "creature" looks odd and it's odd that the camera quality was so low, one would imagine that a standard smartphone would have a generally higher resolution.

 

[deirdre]

I think it is mostly paradolia. She doesnt seem like a scammer, and the timing kinda makes it seem like it is a fairly steady occurrence.

I dont want to go into personal details really (ie location) but lets say there is a main road perpendicular to the dark tree line backdrop... things like barrels or even guard rail posts, can give the illusion of movement (and limbs) because of the way the shadows would move.

I didnt spend alot of time looking for a great example but here is the general idea (of course i think you have to flip my map as her "Levi's" shirt insignia is backwards...so in real life everything is probably in reverse)

 

[Mick West]

Smoke seems likely

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

I think it is mostly paradolia. She doesnt seem like a scammer, and the timing kinda makes it seem like it is a fairly steady occurrence.

I dont want to go into personal details really (ie location) but lets say there is a main road perpendicular to the dark tree line backdrop... things like barrels or even guard rail posts, can give the illusion of movement (and limbs) because of the way the shadows would move.

I didnt spend alot of time looking for a great example but here is the general idea (of course i think you have to flip my map as her "Levi's" shirt insignia is backwards...so in real life everything is probably in reverse)

I think you're right that it's pareidolia, do you think it could have been a distorted light image of like a deer? I think that could be a possibility

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

Smoke seems likely

I originally thought that too, however, at one point the "figure" seems to be actually behind the pole with the rest of its "body" being covered by it.

If it was smoke then I think the smoke would be overlapping the pole.

 

[Mendel]

I originally thought that too, however, at one point the "figure" seems to be actually behind the pole with the rest of its "body" being covered by it.

There is no way to tell if the smoke is in front or behind because the pole is as bright as the smoke. It looks the same in both cases.
Don't be fooled by an optical illusion!

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

There is no way to tell if the smoke is in front or behind because the pole is as bright as the smoke. It looks the same in both cases.
Don't be fooled by an optical illusion!

Ah that is true, I did not account for the light. Looking at it with that in mind does make it more plausible that it was smoke. The thing is, and this might be also an optical illusion, when initially some smoke comes into the frame (before the zoom in) the smoke appears to be "closer" and that figure seems to be "further away." Again could be an optical illusion but still bugs me enough to point it out.

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

One thing though, if it was running at such a velocity, wouldn't the camera pick up noise of its "legs" hitting the ground? In addition, wouldn't the grass be distorted? I know you only see the thing for a second but you definitely do not hear anything hit the ground and, it's a little hard to tell because of the camera quality, but the grass doesn't seem to be impacted by the "running."

 

[deirdre]

do you think it could have been a distorted light image of like a deer?

I don't. it's way too wispy like smoke. i'm only half discounting smoke because the coincidence factor of his smoke looking like that at that oen particular time... while possible.. is more unlikely then say headlight play.

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

I don't. it's way too wispy like smoke. i'm only half discounting smoke because the coincidence factor of his smoke looking like that at that oen particular time... while possible.. is more unlikely then say headlight play.

I see your point. The thing does appear to be translucent and doesn't seem to have physical properties so it must be something like headlight play or smoke.

I bet someone would say that it means it's a "ghost" or "apparition" of some sort but if we use Occam's Razor on this, it would have to be something mundane.

 

[deirdre]

Ah that is true, I did not account for the light. Looking at it with that in mind does make it more plausible that it was smoke. The thing is, and this might be also an optical illusion, when initially some smoke comes into the frame (before the zoom in) the smoke appears to be "closer" and that figure seems to be "further away." Again could be an optical illusion but still bugs me enough to point it out.

the zoomed in area is a crop though of the initial smoke plume. (smoke plume on right of pulled out version.

the thing is it isnt moving that fast really. im not sure... but at the speed we think it is moving, we should have seen it come in from the left on the zoomed out scene if it is something coming across teh yard at teh distance of the pole. it more likely it originated at an angle.. like headlights or smoke could do.

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

the zoomed in area is a crop though of the initial smoke plume. (smoke plume on right of pulled out version.

Ah so it could have been just portion of the smoke potentially rather than the whole big portion.

the thing is it isnt moving that fast really. im not sure... but at the speed we think it is moving, we should have seen it come in from the left on the zoomed out scene if it is something coming across teh yard at teh distance of the pole. it more likely it originated at an angle.. like headlights or smoke could do.

Yeah it's hard to determine the speed but like you said if it is quite fast then wouldn't we see this thing coming earlier?

I still think that the odds of her seeing the "dogman" at the very exact moment she went outside to talk about it are low. I'm not saying that this was orchestrated, just that if this creature was real it has a really good knack for timing.

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

I noticed something, I don't have the software to record it but if you look at Mick's posted video and you go to 0:21 and scroll the time line bar so it appears frame by frame, before the figure reaches the pole it looks like it's levitating, the "legs" only ever seem to touch the ground when the creature is in centre of the frame. I'm assuming that that is due to pareidolia.

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

The thing does appear to be translucent as if you look at the light in the back, if you go frame by frame, it appears to shine through its "body". The image below points that out, it's a bit difficult to see but if you go to the video frame by frame you can see it better

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

I'm becoming more in favour of the smoke hypothesis but one thing that I have a question about is the trajectory of the smoke: Wouldn't the smoke be going upwards as opposed to the right?

 

[deirdre]

it could have gone up outside the frame of the zoomed in scene, then it traveled to the right just like the earlier exhale did.

 

[Hevach]

I'm becoming more in favour of the smoke hypothesis but one thing that I have a question about is the trajectory of the smoke: Wouldn't the smoke be going upwards as opposed to the right?

Smoke isn't lighter than air. Smoke from a fire rises because it's in the rising hot air currents from the fire. But a shorter event like an electrical short or a moving source like a car engine burning oil it will tend to hang in the air and drift on the wind. Also, with smoke illuminated by a light source, the light moving can create the illusion that the smoke is moving with it when it's just the light passing through different parts of the smoke cloud.

 

[Mendel]

I'm becoming more in favour of the smoke hypothesis but one thing that I have a question about is the trajectory of the smoke: Wouldn't the smoke be going upwards as opposed to the right?

If you think of smoke at music events, you'll remember that that smoke does not rise by itself.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTieaXAoLvU
It really depends on what the air that the smoke is "embedded" in is doing.
If you open an outside door, that usually creates some airflow due to the temperature difference. If it's colder outside, that may also cause some condensation on the smoke particles, making them more visible; especially if the relative humidity is high, as it would be in an "evening dew" situation.

Spoiler: Source for condensation on smoke

Article:

Fig. 8. Hygroscopic mass growth (d1,DRY=258.2±7.8 nm) compared against volume growth (d1,DRY=255.3±7.7 nm) of particles produced by a University of Kentucky 3R4F cigarette smoked following HCI puffing parameters, where the dotted line is the density growth factor calculated from the shown mass and volume fits and the shaded region represents its uncertainty due to the range of possible sample RHs within the CPMA.

Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021850215000580

Aside: if you're looking for a good model of how aerosols spread in a room, smoke is a good comparison. If you can smell the cigarette smoke of someone, you're also inhaling a small portion of their exhaled aerosols. (THis may be more obvious to non-smokers than to smokers.)

 

[deirdre]

Smoke isn't lighter than air. Smoke from a fire rises

i think its more an issue of the smoke would have to rise from shyunique's mouth location to the dog man location. if the dogman is shyunique's cigarette exhale.

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

In Sony Vegas I rendered the video as a PNG so I've got all the frames, I'll just upload the ones where you see the creature on here. I'll upload them in 2 formats: one where it's just the raw image and one where I marked where the "creature" is visible

Spoiler: Frame 255 to frame 268 - raw

Spoiler: Frame 255 to 268 - raw and marked

I also made a copy of the images where the sharpness is turned up and the brightness is somewhat turned up too. Both with and without markings

Spoiler: Frame 255 to 228 - edited

Spoiler: Frame 255 to 268 - edited and marked

It looks like some of the clarity was a bit lost but I'm assuming that's due to image compression

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

Upon frame by frame examination, I'm fairly confident that it's smoke mixed with light playing tricks on the mind.

One thing I just thing would need addressing is what deirdre mentioned:

i think its more an issue of the smoke would have to rise from shyunique's mouth location to the dog man location. if the dogman is shyunique's cigarette exhale.

Could the direction where the smoke's coming from coincide with the appearance of the creature?

I did a little mark up of the first puff of smoke visible, I also tried looking for videos of smoke coming out of a cigarette but couldn't find anything of use.

The grey box is where the zoom in is meant to be.

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

I spoke to a few people about this and, without prior knowledge, they gave answers that it's a skin walker or a hoax. After giving the smoke hypothesis they agree that it is a viable explanation however one of my acquaintances said that, although they think it is smoke, they don't think it's smoke from the person's cigarette.

 

[Rory]

Doesn't look like smoke to me.

 

[captancourgette]

Yeah doesnt look like smoke. Looks like a landstrider from dark crystal
Like all these videos its hard to actually make out anything, to me It looks like a double exposure but done nowadays so made on a PC. 2 clips merged together one of a creature either real or cgi added to the night scene.
to me the biggest giveaway is watch when it passes behind the vertical lightbeam in the middle of the screen, it brightens up, which is what happens when you add 2 clips together

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

Doesn't look like smoke to me.

What do you think it is? Reread that and it what I wrote seems snarky, just wanted to clarify it isn't I'm genuinely curious.

Yeah doesnt look like smoke. Looks like a landstrider from dark crystal
Like all these videos its hard to actually make out anything, to me It looks like a double exposure but done nowadays so made on a PC. 2 clips merged together one of a creature either real or cgi added to the night scene.
to me the biggest giveaway is watch when it passes behind the vertical lightbeam in the middle of the screen, it brightens up, which is what happens when you add 2 clips togethe

The resemblance is quite striking with that dark crystal creature, the thing is this happened live on Facebook so I don't think it's double exposure.

 

[Rory]

What do you think it is?

Genuinely I couldn't say. But for sure I don't think it looks like smoke.

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

Genuinely I couldn't say. But for sure I don't think it looks like smoke.

Fair enough, I think it is smoke due to the reasons pointed out in the thread but to sum up a person on reddit posted an explanation why it's smoke.

It's 100% smoke and every aspect of the video backs this up.

Let's address all the claims.

1. Why is she freaked out? She's looking at the phone screen after just zooming in so she freaked herself out.
2. It went behind the pole. No, it 100% did NOT. It is clearly in front of the pole once you get a good source and multiple frames prove this. Watch on a frame by frame and look at the color of the light pole as the smoke moves past it. You will see the pole coloration lighten as the smoke passes in front of it and then redarken once the smoke isn't in front of it. But better than that one of the last frames of the "encounter" as she jerks the camera away shows the smoke clear as day blatantly in front of the pole.
3. The weird movement. It isn't weird as soon as you see the stabilized video that isn't extremely zoomed and cropped which removes all perspective and reference. It has the exact size and scale of a wisp of cigarette smoke floating out the door, the brief glimpse of the left hand door frame provides great perspective for this.

Everything about this now shows it to be cigarette smoke.

1. She's smoking a cig.
2. Every frame shows it to be transparent grey/white. What's also transparent grey/white? Smoke.
3. The most damning of all: Look back to the left after the smoke is passing near the pole and you can see an additional faint smoke trail stringer wafting out the door
4. There is not ONE single frame of that video that shows anything resembling the body of a solid animal while EVERY frame has all the properties of a wisp of cigarette smoke.

 

[CTLifer]

I created this account just to offer my opinion on this. I'm a smoker and one thing I see discounted here is that, while smoke is produced from exhaling cigarette smoke, the cigarette itself also burns independently. That being said, in a building the smoke isn't affected by variable winds, but outside it is. So when (for example) I'm smoking weed inside and blowing the smoke out my screen door, the winds grab the smoke and pull it in a linear (left to right or right to left) motion and pulls the smoke really quickly. In addition, the manner in which Shyunique was holding the cigarette upwards rather than down by her side is consistent with the smoke plume being above the previous exhale. So when using the zoom on a phone, the smoke plume from the burning cigarette was altered which would absolutely make a non uniform smoke pattern. A little late to this thread but hope someone who stumbles upon this understands what I'm trying to say.

 

[FatPhil]

If you think of smoke at music events, you'll remember that that smoke does not rise by itself.

Herp derp. "Smoke" at music events isn't smoke.

 

[captancourgette]

Depends on the music event I suppose,

Though I assume you're meaning the dry ice from the stage and not from the audience

 

[Mendel]

I was thinking about "smoke" machines that heat up a fluid to turn it into steam, and then blow it out where it turns into fog.