Claim: 1990 Calvine UFO

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

Around the 4th of August, in 1990, two men supposedly took 6 photographs of a diamond shaped UFO in the sky accompanied by Harriers. This was first brought up by Nick Pope in his 1996 book Open Skies, Closed Minds. The story somewhat blew up in 2009 when it was released by the National Archive, no photos accompanied it but a photocopy of the trace was with it


Nick Pope teamed up with an artist to do a representation based on the photocopy and Pope's memory, this it what was produced. According to Pope, the rendition is "very accurate"


The photos are apparently hidden away and were meant to be released in 2021 but apparently the ministry extended the time it will take for the photos to be released for another 50 years, leading many believers to say that this adds credibility to the claim

A 30-year rule meant it was due to be declassified on January 1 — but the Ministry of Defence has now blocked release until 2072 without explanation.

Photographs were taken by two Perthshire hikers who watched the “diamond-shaped metallic craft” for ten minutes before it shot up vertically out of sight.

They also claimed to see military jets fly a series of low-level passes.

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Source

I'll also attach the actual report from the archives here


Source

The dimensions of the aircraft vary from source to source, some say it was 75 feet, some say 80 feet and some say 100 feet in diameter. Pope has really hyped this up as one of the most astonishing photos he ever saw.

There are a few problems with this story, the photos were apparently taken at 9pm in Scotland but Pope has said that the photo was seen in broad daylight, which is odd as the sunset was at 9:17 pm.

The claim is that the photograph was taken at 9pm. However, when I looked up the time of sunset, the sun actually set at 9:17pm that night in Perthshire. Would there have been sufficient light to take the photograph as it has been described? The photograph described by Nick Pope is not typical of something taken around sunset in Scotland. The reconstruction (below) looks more like a typical afternoon photograph. And another question: would two walkers have wanted to be up there knowing they had to come back down in the dark? I considered the possibility of a tourist getting caught out, but sunset in London that day was at 8:44pm so anyone from further south would have expected itt o get dark sooner.

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Also, no scale of the photo has been established, the diamond has just been referred to as big .

As relates to the unidentified object in the original photo it is hard to tell from the sketch version, but there is no scale so we don't know if it is a small object close to the camera or a large one further away. Because we are comparing it to the Harrier and we know how big it is then the object seem to be very large, but it might not be.

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Source

America denied that it was their Aircraft but a few people on the ministry didn't believe them, some people on the ministry asserted that it can't be Russian or American.

Of course, many assume extra-terrestrial and not much skeptical investigation was done into it (aside from the blog source) so it's hailed as an inexplicable proof of aliens. What could be a more likely explanation? I don't know why, but this reminds me a bit of the tic-tac UFO story

 

[deirdre]

I dont recall photocopies being that bad in 1990. I dont know who David Clark is (and dont want to spend time or money digging through the National Archives to verify but: )

Article:

In July 1996, prompted by Pope’s account, Don Valley MP Martin Redmond, tabled a parliamentary question on the Calvine photograph. In reply, MoD said: “A number of negatives associated with the sighting were examined by staff responsible for air defence matters. Since it was judged they contained nothing of defence significance the negatives were not retained and we have no record of any photographs having been taken from them.” (Hansard, written answers, 23 July 1996).

Source: http://drdavidclarke.blogspot.com/2009/03/calvine-photos.html

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

I dont recall photocopies being that bad in 1990. I dont know who David Clark is (and dont want to spend time or money digging through the National Archives to verify but: )

Article: In July 1996, prompted by Pope’s account, Don Valley MP Martin Redmond, tabled a parliamentary question on the Calvine photograph. In reply, MoD said: “A number of negatives associated with the sighting were examined by staff responsible for air defence matters. Since it was judged they contained nothing of defence significance the negatives were not retained and we have no record of any photographs having been taken from them.” (Hansard, written answers, 23 July 1996).

Hmm, could it be just Nick Pope hyping something that isn't there?

Interestingly, the thing about the extra 50 years, the only reference I can find are red top tabloids which are less than reliable.

 

[deirdre]

and what's with this little spinny thing on the back. it looks like a bath toy or a blimp. Do aliens use blimp technology?

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

and what's with this little spinny thing on the back. it looks like a bath toy or a blimp. Do aliens use blimp technology?

I'm surprised that actually everywhere I looked, not once has the possibility of a blimp been even brought up

 

[deirdre]

here is the file the photocopy pic (image 36), but it seems to be associated with a different ufo sighting. i'm on page 66 now and not seeing any Calvine connection.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10232694
June 1991-March 1992


(the report you link is in a completely different file of releases.. http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10232693
Jan 1990-June 1991
page 156-158)


is Nick Pope misremembering the file?


From photo file:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10232694
June 1991-March 1992
this is image 30: (is about American Black Mantas)






image 35:


image 36:

 

[flarkey]

As a bit of a plane-geek.....I do find it unusual that a Harrier (ground attack aircraft) would be used to intercept a UFO. Its also strange that a Harrier would be scrambled to one in Scotland. Harriers were not based there in 1990 - however Tornados and Phantoms were based at RAF Leuchars (50 miles away and on Quick Reaction Alert ), which is much closer than the nearest Harrier base (RAF Wittering or Cottesmore at ~320 miles.). It is possible that it could just have been flying by, but I think this its unlikely as the RAF tend not to do training flights at 9pm on Saturday evenings.

 

[banditsat12oclock]

Interestingly, the thing about the extra 50 years, the only reference I can find are red top tabloids which are less than reliable.

I found this to be intriguing, too.

I don't suppose anyone knows anyone who has actually tried to confirm this "extra 50 years of secrecy", do they?

 

[jarlrmai]

I can certainly see how an F117 viewed from certain angles would look a but like that shape drawn.

 

[Todd Feinman]

and what's with this little spinny thing on the back. it looks like a bath toy or a blimp. Do aliens use blimp technology?

Actually NASA is looking at soft robotics for space exploration, doubtlessly made from metamaterials:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sof...ome..69i57.5403j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Todd Feinman]

That reputedly real picture reminds me of an encounter a person posted at Historum years ago, that I collected. Fwiw:

"I had just gotten off from work as a telemarketer and I was in a Miami Suburb waiting for the bus at approx 9 pm. There was a slight drizzle and a fog at about 100 feet elevation. The street where I was waiting for the bus was practically deserted and the traffic was very scarce. I lived at the Gibson Hotel at that time which is located in downtown Miami. I was looking in that direction when I saw the white round light approaching silently at approx 3mph. I recognized it as the same light I had seen several nights before late at night from my hotel window but was traveling at a much higher elevation from the suburbs towards downtown Miami. It had the same strange characteristic of suddenly shaking horizontally (ha! forgot about that part (TF)). It was also entirely silent which ruled out a helicopter or plane.

I had assumed that the light itself was the entire craft but as it turned out the light was merely attached to its side. I only realized this as the backward reflection from it dimly illuminated the rest of its form which appeared to be that of two pyramids attached at their bases. I would say its distance from me when I noticed this was perhaps one hundred feet. It was enormous and dwarfed the house over which it was passing. I assumed it was going to continue on its way when it suddenly stopped.

Then it suddenly doused its white frontal light and shifted it to focus on me for approx three seconds. Then it used a red and then a green lights and did the same. These lights were the most intense lights I have ever seen in terms of purity. Not a flicker. They were not blinding either.

What bothered me most was that the backward reflections from these light revealed what appeared to have been a hull that seemed organic and not metallic. It had this rather brownish tinge. Also, it was effortlessly defying gravity without any sound of any kind.

Once it had focused those lights on me and I had stood stupidly there instead of running like I should have but didn't for some strange reason, it then doused its light and re-lit it at its rim toward my left. That was the direction it had been traveling before it stopped. It then made a slight right turn towards what I knew was the Miami Airport. I gazed at it as it went and fluctuated horizontally now and then as it had done on its approach. It was traveling just below the fog cover as it had before.

Moments later my bus arrived. Got home and noticed that there was time missing. I figured that maybe I had imagined the whole thing. In fact, I hoped I had because it left me with an uneasy feeling as if I had been abused ion some way. Unfortunately, the next morning the newspaper headline was announcing that a UFO had played havoc with Miami Airport traffic the night before. There went my peace of mind.

Have I attempted to find out what happened during that missing time? No I havent. Why? Because I really don't want to know since it isn't going to do me any good one way or the other. I just wish it never happened to be honest."

--"Radrook

 

[banditsat12oclock]

Dr David Clarke has some interesting material on this matter here: https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/2018/06/16/black-projects-ufos-and-the-mysterious-mo-d-notice/

There's one particular photo on the page, but it's marked as copyrighted, so I've not reproduced it here.

It's of a declassified document that refers to the MoD's possession of ASTRA/AURORA photos and 35mm slides, plus the issuance of a 1990s D-notice to the press. One imagines that these could all refer to Calvine, but they just as easily could also refer to another incident, publically known or unknown.

 

[deirdre]

There's one particular photo on the page, but it's marked as copyrighted, so I've not reproduced it here.

the doc in the photo says exactly (i did not add the bold):

Article:

dated 22 March 2000

Source: https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/2018/06/16/black-projects-ufos-and-the-mysterious-mo-d-notice/

UK RESTRICTED
55/108/15

To: [redacted]
From: [redacted]
Copy to: [redacted]

WRAP UP OF UAP MATERIAL

"This is a note to report that the wrap-up of the department's UAP material is completed, subject to the distribution of the set of reports. Reports prepared for distribution have been passed to [redacted] in readiness for action when the covering letter becomes available.

All master copies together with their soft copy discs for the 4 parts of the UAP Report have been left with in the reports library [redacted]. The disc for Volumne 3 is Secret, the rest UK Restricted. Imagery used that is not on the discs is also with this material.

Selected vu-graphs (though insufficient for an up to date final presentation), with some 35mm slides, have been placed onn the above remaining file, together with a sample of the last three UAP reports. The remaining ASTRA/AURORA photos and 35mm slides are also ont his last file. There was a Press 'D' Notice issued at the time.

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deirdre note: the photo cuts off the page so there is more text we cannot see

 

[deirdre]

a quick google of the doc number, i see teh black vault was doing FOIA requests... that might be an avenue someone might want to explor further as i dont feel like digging myself.

Article:

. You will notice that the Policy file that was the subject of my previous FOI request, DI/55/108/15/Pt 4 contained enclosures dating from 1971 onwards. This suggests that Part 3 in the sequence - covering dates 1968-1971 - is ’missing’. Does DIS hold this file? b) With regards to the UFO Policy file covering the period 1996-2000 (your reference D 1/DI55/1 08/15 Pt 5) could you specify how many pages and how many enclosures are held within this file.

Source: https://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/ufos/UK/defe-24-2077-1.pdf

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

Actually NASA is looking at soft robotics for space exploration, doubtlessly made from metamaterials:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sof...ome..69i57.5403j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Well that comment is wasn’t about the softness of it, it was a comment on how the thing on the back looks like some kind of propeller which would not make sense for an intergalactic space ship.

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

That reputedly real picture reminds me of an encounter a person posted at Historum years ago, that I collected. Fwiw:

"I had just gotten off from work as a telemarketer and I was in a Miami Suburb waiting for the bus at approx 9 pm. There was a slight drizzle and a fog at about 100 feet elevation. The street where I was waiting for the bus was practically deserted and the traffic was very scarce. I lived at the Gibson Hotel at that time which is located in downtown Miami. I was looking in that direction when I saw the white round light approaching silently at approx 3mph. I recognized it as the same light I had seen several nights before late at night from my hotel window but was traveling at a much higher elevation from the suburbs towards downtown Miami. It had the same strange characteristic of suddenly shaking horizontally (ha! forgot about that part (TF)). It was also entirely silent which ruled out a helicopter or plane.

I had assumed that the light itself was the entire craft but as it turned out the light was merely attached to its side. I only realized this as the backward reflection from it dimly illuminated the rest of its form which appeared to be that of two pyramids attached at their bases. I would say its distance from me when I noticed this was perhaps one hundred feet. It was enormous and dwarfed the house over which it was passing. I assumed it was going to continue on its way when it suddenly stopped.

Then it suddenly doused its white frontal light and shifted it to focus on me for approx three seconds. Then it used a red and then a green lights and did the same. These lights were the most intense lights I have ever seen in terms of purity. Not a flicker. They were not blinding either.

What bothered me most was that the backward reflections from these light revealed what appeared to have been a hull that seemed organic and not metallic. It had this rather brownish tinge. Also, it was effortlessly defying gravity without any sound of any kind.

Once it had focused those lights on me and I had stood stupidly there instead of running like I should have but didn't for some strange reason, it then doused its light and re-lit it at its rim toward my left. That was the direction it had been traveling before it stopped. It then made a slight right turn towards what I knew was the Miami Airport. I gazed at it as it went and fluctuated horizontally now and then as it had done on its approach. It was traveling just below the fog cover as it had before.

Moments later my bus arrived. Got home and noticed that there was time missing. I figured that maybe I had imagined the whole thing. In fact, I hoped I had because it left me with an uneasy feeling as if I had been abused ion some way. Unfortunately, the next morning the newspaper headline was announcing that a UFO had played havoc with Miami Airport traffic the night before. There went my peace of mind.

Have I attempted to find out what happened during that missing time? No I havent. Why? Because I really don't want to know since it isn't going to do me any good one way or the other. I just wish it never happened to be honest."

--"Radrook

No offence, but I have no clue what this has to do with the post, it’s purely anecdotal and anybody could have wrote an encounter like that without any corroborating evidence, it kinda reads just like a story to me but there’s no way I could debunk or prove this.

And when it comes to missing time, there are, well, more likely explanations than aliensdidit.

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

That reputedly real picture

Sorry to make another comment but this just strikes me as odd, what reputedly real picture? All we have is a drawing of what the thing supposedly looked like and an artistic rendition based on the drawing and what the people allegedly saw.

 

[Todd Feinman]

No offence, but I have no clue what this has to do with the post, it’s purely anecdotal and anybody could have wrote an encounter like that without any corroborating evidence, it kinda reads just like a story to me but there’s no way I could debunk or prove this.

And when it comes to missing time, there are, well, more likely explanations than aliensdidit.

So, the object in the witness account I provided --anecdotal as it is, matches the Calvine UFO very well, --thus my association with it and the Calvine UFO (in the post).
1. Both look like objects composed of two pyramids attached at their bases --like a shallow octahedron
2. The witness I mentioned described a light moving around on the rim of the object, and there is an object on the rim of the Calvine UFO that breaks its symmetry.
@dierdre:
3. I have no way to verify the authenticity of the account I posted.
4. I'm just noting a similarity, not necessarily claiming they are the same object.

If you can't debunk it --maybe think about it instead. Also, just generally, when police arrive at the scene of a crime --they do indeed talk to witnesses about what happened. A picture or bit of metal is just that, without context.

 

[deirdre]

anecdotal as it is, matches the Calvine UFO very well,

it doesnt match it at all. not even slightly. what parts do you think match?

 

[ParanoidSkeptic2]

A picture or bit of metal is just that, without context.

But that's all we have really, one person can say it was aliens, another can say was a blimp, heck, one person could say it's Santa. What matter's is the evidence that supports the claim.

To quote Carl Sagan:

"What counts is not what sounds plausible, not what we would like to believe, not what one or two witnesses claim, but only what is supported by hard evidence rigorously and skeptically examined."