Calvine UFO Photo - Reflection In Water Hypothesis

[Space_Raider]

This looks like a small island or rock in a loch to me. The bottom of the diamond would be the reflection of the island in the water.

If it was a misty morning, where the water ends and sky begins would be unclear.


Edit: to illustrate what I mean, I found this image of a small island in a Loch here from a Google image search. The shape is similar to the object.

The view of a little island on Loch Etive from Ardchattan Priory Gardens
https://blosslynspage.wordpress.com/2014/01/14/floating-island-loch-etive-scotland/

HD Calvine image: https://web.archive.org/web/2022081....wordpress.com/2022/08/watermarked-jpeg-2.jpg
General Calvine UFO discussion: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-original-calvine-ufo-photo.12571/

 

[Rory]

This looks like a small island or rock in a loch to me.

So a double exposure?

Though if there were six of these photos...

 

[RTM]

This looks like a small island or rock in a loch to me. The bottom of the diamond would be the reflection of the island in the water.

If it was a misty morning, where the water ends and sky begins would be unclear.


Edit: to illustrate what I mean, I found this image of a small island in a Loch here from a Google image search. The shape is similar to the object.

The view of a little island on Loch Etive from Ardchattan Priory Gardens
https://blosslynspage.wordpress.com/2014/01/14/floating-island-loch-etive-scotland/
View attachment 53341

Could the jet be a reflection?

 

[Mick West]

This looks like a small island or rock in a loch to me. The bottom of the diamond would be the reflection of the island in the water.

If it was a misty morning, where the water ends and sky begins would be unclear.

I see what you are saying, but I think the clouds indicate we are looking upwards.

 

[Vee7]

I see what you are saying, but I think the clouds indicate we are looking upwards.

View attachment 53343

just a wild thought: if they had a small paddling pool, with a triangular piece of brown paper sticking out, allowing the water to come to rest and then waiting for an aeroplane to fly by, could it be done like this?

maybe an experiment could quickly rule this out.

 

[Vee7]

just a wild thought: if they had a small paddling pool, with a triangular piece of brown paper sticking out, allowing the water to come to rest and then waiting for an aeroplane to fly by, could it be done like this?

maybe an experiment could quickly rule this out.

trouble with this is you'd need absolutely no wind at all. in Scotland I'm guessing this would be next to impossible.

 

[Ann K]

This looks like a small island or rock in a loch to me. The bottom of the diamond would be the reflection of the island in the water.

If it was a misty morning, where the water ends and sky begins would be unclear.


Edit: to illustrate what I mean, I found this image of a small island in a Loch here from a Google image search. The shape is similar to the object.

The view of a little island on Loch Etive from Ardchattan Priory Gardens
https://blosslynspage.wordpress.com/2014/01/14/floating-island-loch-etive-scotland/
View attachment 53341

The town itself is only five miles from Loch Tummel, and a reflected object was my first thought. If the planes enjoy traveling at low altitude, over a long loch would be an ideal place to do it. That would also be consistent with the apparent downward camera angle.

 

[Landru]

trouble with this is you'd need absolutely no wind at all. in Scotland I'm guessing this would be next to impossible.

Wind prediction for next Wednesday in Scotland

according to PredictWind.

 

[Ann K]

I see what you are saying, but I think the clouds indicate we are looking upwards.

Here's Loch Alsh, a large body of water on a calm day.

 

[jarlrmai]

if it were a reflection then the jet would have the tail pointing down right?

 

[Rory]

Can someone explain how people are seeing a possible reflection? There's clouds, a fence, trees, and a plane and the photographer is looking up. How would that work?

 

[deirdre]

The dark spot's in the middle, and there appears to be a dark streak descending (in this 90° rotated view) from each edge of the spot. Those, your "pearl", and also the whitish places toward each narrow point, look much more like a reflection in the water than an object.

i can see the plane as being upside down. (because i dont know planes well) but the reflection bit is more triangular than the original "island" ..which is throwing me.

 

[deirdre]

Can someone explain how people are seeing a possible reflection? There's clouds, a fence, trees, and a plane and the photographer is looking up. How would that work?

the fence and trees are real life. the camera man is looking down like you origianlly siad. the clouds are reflected in the lake. ??

 

[Vee7]

Can someone explain how people are seeing a possible reflection? There's clouds, a fence, trees, and a plane and the photographer is looking up. How would that work?

it's very dubious but i was thinking something like this:

I think others are thinking it's from an elevated position looking down on a lake or something

 

[deirdre]

i can see the plane as being upside down. (because i dont know planes well) but the reflection bit is more triangular than the original "island" ..which is throwing me.

ok this tree is pointier

 

[Rory]

the camera man is looking down like you originally said.

Nah, I said "leaning back" (as in "looking up").

I think others are thinking it's from an elevated position looking down on a lake

Yeah, that's what I can't work out. Doesn't seem possible to me.

 

[Mick West]

Doesn't seem possible to me.

No it doesn't.

For water to be reflective (so you can't see the bottom) you need a fairly shallow angle. Overcast skies are a big help though. But I think this would require quite a long lens.

 

[skrzitek]

Just as an example, the first photo is actually a reflection on a lake and the second photo shows the original photo.

It seems a possibility to me that the photographer saw RAF planes flying low in the area and realized an interesting photo could be made of a reflected plane + some rather angular thing sticking out of the Loch.

 

[saucerpilot]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipOLG9gs-LcxluhFjb-woX2StckMGmVNpvxZ5ztG=w2560-h1440-pd

I think it's reasonable to entertain that the object might be a rock in a lake. There's an example of a similar looking rock from Loch Rannoch, which as it happens, is only a few miles away from where it is said this picture was taken. I'm sure there's lots of places around there were you could take a similar picture on a very calm day.

Also, I think it is reasonably possible that the image of the jet seen in that picture could show its under side. Here's a Hawker Hunter from a couple of different angles.

 

[Ann K]

ok this tree is pointier
View attachment 53355

A reflection could be a mirror image only if the reflected object were two-dimensional. If the upper part (the peak) is further away than the base, it might not show at all. A reflection shows the view as it would be seen from the water, not the view from a distance.

Look at your own photo. You can see that the trees on the shoreline, forming a sort of vertical wall, hide more of the distant mountain in the reflection than they do in the upper half.

 

[Mick West]

This is an attempt to make it easier to understand (I was confused at first). Look at the bottom blueish half but as a pond, with a bank and a fence on the other side, and the overhanging trees are (I think) also on the other side. So in the reflection theory, we see the reflected scene at the bottom, plus the rock, and the reflection of the rock. That's then flipped

 

[Mick West]

A bad example to show the geometry. Ignore the ripples. We are looking "up" into the sky over a fence , under a tree, and there's a twin-lobed UFO in the sky

But it came from the bottom of this:

Like:

 

[deirdre]

That's then flipped

so the hoaxers sent the pic to the newspaper flipped. and/or the paper assumed the fence was on the bottom as fences normally are. yea, the rock reflection this way is easier on my brain

 

[deirdre]

A bad example to show the geometry

didnt we have a flipped pic ufo thread here before? im picturing it was really a car in the lake once we flipped the pic right way up?

 

[deirdre]

found it online...

add

Spoiler

 

[saucerpilot]

What would it take for the reflection to be noticeably brighter than the subject? In every picture that I've found so far, of objects reflected in water, the reflection is darker or equal in apparent brightness to the subject. EDIT: I guess a fresnel effect could make the reflection appear brighter if the difference in viewing angles were high enough. Then again, the lighting is pretty diffuse.

I still think the photo might be the right way up, and that the only reflections are of a rock and the plane.

 

[deirdre]

What would it take for the reflection to be noticeably brighter than the subject?

its not brighter, its white washed . i'm assuming from the overcast sky reflecting down onto the pond everywhere. will go look to see if i can find examples.

 

[flarkey]

Do we know the exact location that the photo was supposedly taken?

 

[saucerpilot]

I'm not 100% sure this is a real picture. But it's one of the results from googling "reflection lake". Could murkiness be responsible for making the reflection appear slightly brighter than the mountains?

 

[deirdre]

i dont think there is any fog in this photo

and i do think this branch is not a reflection. it is sharper than the tree.

 

[saucerpilot]

and i do think this branch is not a reflection. it is sharper than the tree.

I can't tell if it's sharper or just less washed out. The background behind the other branches is much brighter.

 

[jackfrostvc]

I have some questions I cant seem to find the answer to

1) Where are the other photos'. 5/6 were taken of it apparently. Were they released?
2) Has anyone identified where the pic was taken near Calvine?
3) Who took the pics? Any names given?

 

[deirdre]

I can't tell if it's sharper or just less washed out. The background behind the other branches is much brighter.

you could be right but look at the ufo pic again and see how much sharper it is than the fence.

 

[deirdre]

I have some questions I cant seem to find the answer to

1) Where are the other photos'. 5/6 were taken of it apparently. Were they released?
2) Has anyone identified where the pic was taken near Calvine?
3) Who took the pics? Any names given?

no.
no. (rorys vid in the original thinks they found the location but...seems iffy to me. i'd need coordinates.)
no.

 

[jackfrostvc]

Also, look at the left wing of the aircraft. It seems to have the same shading effect as the large object but in reverse. ie bottom half(wing) lighter as opposed to the top half of the object which is lighter
I guess it might be that the left wing is in some cloud or fog. I say that, because I cant see how any sun angle could have the left wing lighter than the right wing and rest of the aircraft.

 

[Rory]

My twopenneth against reflection:

1. It doesn't look like a reflection
2. The "rock" isn't close to perfectly mirrored
3. A barb wire fence directly next to a loch (or even a pond) seems unlikely

 

[Charlie Wiser]

I don't think the image is flipped (ripples added). I think it's the right way up (so the reflection is darker, as expected) and the plane is either upside down (rolling) or just too blurry to tell that it's the right way up. Neither the fence or foliage is a reflection here:

 

[Charlie Wiser]

From Andrew Robinson's report:

The depth of field visible in the image is fairly shallow suggesting either a wider aperture (e.g F2.8 – F5.6) or a longer lens (eg 80mm or above) or probably both.

He assumes the object is in the sky, but aside from that: he allows for a long lens - re. Mick West: "For water to be reflective (so you can't see the bottom) you need a fairly shallow angle. Overcast skies are a big help though. But I think this would require quite a long lens."

 

[RTM]

My twopenneth against reflection:

1. It doesn't look like a reflection
2. The "rock" isn't close to perfectly mirrored
3. A barb wire fence directly next to a loch (or even a pond) seems unlikely

I have fished loughs in Ireland where fences go about 20 feet into the lough, and the Scots are even more uncivilized.

 

[deirdre]

3. A barb wire fence directly next to a loch (or even a pond) seems unlikely

i agree. i was wondering how big a puddle would have to be to show that much fence.
although that nearby place...Pitlochry..only had light rain aug 2nd. (they had like 5 days of "smoke" though...whatever that means.

i did see a few areas behind houses on the river that had fences and still water, but even they seemed too high up from the water...i guess it would depend on the camera angle. the rivers didnt seem all that wide.