Alien Bodies at a Mexican UAP Hearing

[Mick West]

At public hearing in the Mexican Chamber of Deputies, infamous TV ufologist Jamie Maussan presented two small mummified "alien bodies"

The hearing was orgianized by deputy Sergio Gutiérrez Luna.

Article:

In Mexico, the public hearing is organized by the Morenoist deputy Sergio Gutiérrez Luna and the communicator Jaime Maussan. According to the latter, the hearing seeks to establish a criterion to define unidentified aerial phenomena, and include it in the Airspace Protection Law.

Source: https://www.xataka.com.mx/legislacion-y-derechos/mexico-tendra-historica-reunion-ovnis-a-maussan-como-invitado-honor-congreso-como-a-que-hora-ver-audiencia-publica

Also speaking were Ryan Graves and Robert Sallas.


Here's the unboxing of the aliens.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kVl-bKVVlE&t=10942s


Maussan has a poor reputation, even amongst UFO fans, he's been parading these and similar bodies around for year. They are generally considered to be fakes, made, in part, from human remains. It came up before on Metabunk in 2017:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/hoax-three-fingered-nazca-mummy.8841/

Similarly one might create a long three-fingered hand by removing the outer two digits and then splitting the flesh down between the metacarpals which are normally inside the hand.


Once you've gone down that road, you could easily extend it by adding additional bone segments, like in this earlier example from the same people with a structurally implausible number of bones:

And there's some academic debunking

Article:

Recent on-line and television appearance of purportedly extraterrestrial remains excavated in unknown circumstances in the Southern Peruvian coast has revealed itself as the end product of a long process which joins grave looting, yellow press, and some disoriented professionals. Organizers and attendees to the IX World Congress on Mummy Studies held in Lima, Peru, faced a disinformation campaign by presenting a declaration preventing the public and the media of this hoax. Since then, the producers of this scam program have kept, unfortunately, trying to validate their claims by using fallacious strategies, fueled by the revenue of selling the show.

Source: https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-981-15-3354-9_36

[UPDATE} A good collection of related resources here:
https://www.lucaml.info/ [Spanish]

There's a lot more investigation/debunking, as I recall, and we should try to gather it here, as the hearings are getting a lot of unwarranted attention

 

[Mick West]

Research tip, append site:.mx to a search to get Mexican sites

Also in the hearing, Maussan presented the old Mexican Air Force UFO video, which appears to show on the flares of oil rigs, but Maussan and others claim it's UFOs.


This is discussed in another thread, with links to multiple debunks. I did a little Google Earth recreation, but it might be ripe for a Sitrec.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/mexican-air-force-ufo-video-oil-rigs.10837/

 

[Mick West]

There's also a quote attribed the Ryan Graves (double translated)

Article:

"The United States is in possession of ships and remains of non-human origin, the United States Congress has insisted time and again that the people have the right to know the truth, however, so far the Pentagon has not has allowed investigations to deepen and in fact wants to cancel any possibility of new public hearings being held in the United States Congress. "We have to promote scientific search and research to find a real solution to these issues." The ex-military man declared.

Source: https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/maussan-encabeza-audiencia-ovni-en-camara-de-diputados-y-afirma-si-mexico-lo-acepta-podriamos-viajar-a-otros-universos/

That would be interesting if he actually said that without qualifying it.

 

[Ravi]

Even Garry Nolan thinks these "alien bodies" are fake and he links to a pretty good youtube video about it.

X link to Garry Nolan's tweets

YT link to debunk video

 

[Curious George]

There is another documentary about this here

Source: https://youtu.be/6Sc_paW8uEA?t=1811

Content from External Source

 

[Curious George]

Link to DNA data

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA869134

Content from External Source

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA865375

Content from External Source

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sra/PRJNA861322

Content from External Source

And the results on the first one:

 

[jarlrmai]

You need to be a scientist familiar with the specific tests performed and the quality/age of the sample provided the results to have any chance of understanding what it actually means.

My feeling is you can send off a sample to a lab and get a test and then you can get some results back and then spin them to anyone with a lack of understanding anyway way you want.

 

[Mendel]

And the results on the first one:

phaseolus vulgaris: 42.89%

Content from External Source

Attack of the killer beans?

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaseolus_vulgaris

 

[Curious George]

Right, so what does that mean? Do you believe the sample was contaminated with bean leaves, or could it be this alien has some similar gut bacteria or something to plants?

 

[John J.]

could it be this alien has some similar gut bacteria or something to plants?

I'm not a biologist or geneticist, but in light of the context and information in earlier posts on this thread, I think we can probably categorize this possibility as "Rather Unlikely".

 

[jarlrmai]

Right, so what does that mean? Do you believe the sample was contaminated with bean leaves, or could it be this alien has some similar gut bacteria or something to plants?

Sounds like an excellent question for those making extraordinary claims about these things.

 

[Mendel]

Right, so what does that mean? Do you believe the sample was contaminated with bean leaves, or could it be this alien has some similar gut bacteria or something to plants?

This is the biggest fraction of the analysis. I'll readily admit I have no experience reading this, but it looks like it's mainly beans, contaminated with everything else. The mummy might be modeled from bean paste?

If it was a real mummy, I'd hope this is the analysis of the stomach contents.

 

[JWrightBrain]

Attack of the killer beans?

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaseolus_vulgaris

IT'S RELATED TO MR. BEAN!!!!

 

[yoshy]

This should be the most embarrassing charade yet for UFOlogists but we'll likely hear this as proof for years to come

 

[Ravi]

This should be the most embarrassing charade yet for UFOlogists but we'll likely hear this as proof for years to come

Indeed. This rehashing of old cases is a form of art in the ufology (uapology? hmm..) field. As a solid debunk is usually not easy or even possible, these specific cases are brought up from time to time. Usually with a new spin to it, and basically just "trying it again".

 

[Mick West]

Indeed. This rehashing of old cases is a form of art in the ufology (uapology? hmm..) field. As a solid debunk is usually not easy or even possible, these specific cases are brought up from time to time. Usually with a new spin to it, and basically just "trying it again".

Minor sidebar, I wrote about this type of recurrence, and how to fight it, here:
https://skepticalinquirer.org/2022/08/skeptical-recurrence-and-decay/

Article:

George Santayana’s aphorism “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” is familiar to many, but we all inevitably fail at some point to live up to its advice. The problem with the past is that there’s just so much of it, and most of us have our hands full simply dealing with the present.

This inevitable forgetting and renewing leads to a somewhat cyclic aspect of the field of skepticism that could perhaps benefit from some consideration. I’ve been actively investigating many topics for nearly twenty years and so have had the chance to observe new generations both embracing conspiracy theories (and pseudoscience) and attempting to debunk those beliefs. Many of these people were not even born when I first wrote about these topics. Why do things repeat after already being debunked? I will both illustrate the issue and provide pointers for what we might do to improve the situation. The two aspects of this situation are recurrence (which applies mostly to the bunk) and decay (which applies more to skepticism and debunking).

Source: https://skepticalinquirer.org/2022/08/skeptical-recurrence-and-decay/

 

[Ann K]

Indeed. This rehashing of old cases is a form of art in the ufology (uapology? hmm..) field. As a solid debunk is usually not easy or even possible, these specific cases are brought up from time to time. Usually with a new spin to it, and basically just "trying it again".

Indeed. My old school friend has just put out a new book on the Pascagoula abduction story ...from half a century ago!

 

[Mick West]

And the results on the first one:

How do you get to that results page from the NIH link?

 

[MIC132]

How do you get to that results page from the NIH link?

In the "Runs" table click on the number in the "Run" column, then once you get there switch tab to "Analysis" - warning, this last step can take a while.

 

[Mick West]

Ryan Graves issued a statement on TwitterX

Article:

After the U.S. Congressional UFO hearing, I accepted an invitation to testify before the Mexican Congress hoping to keep up the momentum of government interest in pilot experiences with UAP. Unfortunately, yesterday’s demonstration was a huge step backwards for this issue. My testimony centered on sharing my experience and the UAP reports I hear from commercial and military aircrew through ASA’s witness program. I will continue to raise awareness of UAP as an urgent matter of aerospace safety, national security, and science, but I am deeply disappointed by this unsubstantiated stunt.

Source: https://twitter.com/uncertainvector/status/1702023350803959988

 

[jarlrmai]

Ryan Graves issued a statement on TwitterX

Article:

After the U.S. Congressional UFO hearing, I accepted an invitation to testify before the Mexican Congress hoping to keep up the momentum of government interest in pilot experiences with UAP. Unfortunately, yesterday’s demonstration was a huge step backwards for this issue. My testimony centered on sharing my experience and the UAP reports I hear from commercial and military aircrew through ASA’s witness program. I will continue to raise awareness of UAP as an urgent matter of aerospace safety, national security, and science, but I am deeply disappointed by this unsubstantiated stunt.

Source: https://twitter.com/uncertainvector/status/1702023350803959988

It's always interesting to find out where the various UFO proponents draw the line.

 

[Galaga]

How do you get to that results page from the NIH link?

https://trace.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Traces/?view=run_browser&acc=SRR21031366&display=analysis

 

[tobigtofool]

Does this thing have a mouth without a jawbone?

Maussan has a poor reputation, even amongst UFO fans, he's been parading these and similar bodies around for year. They are generally considered to be fakes, made, in part, from human remains. It came up before on Metabunk in 2017:

I feel like there's a better chance these are 1000 old Barbie dolls than 1000 year old aliens.

Toys made out of actual bones is totally par for the course middle age earthlings.

 

[FatPhil]

Indeed. This rehashing of old cases is a form of art in the ufology (uapology? hmm..) field. As a solid debunk is usually not easy or even possible, these specific cases are brought up from time to time. Usually with a new spin to it, and basically just "trying it again".

And we should just dismiss them forthwith, and tell them to go back to playing with their beanie babies.

 

[Curious George]

Was the DNA result in the original case, or is there any new info presented this time? How has the DNA been debunked? Are the bean plants possibly some kind of contamination?

 

[Curious George]

And now I have the explanation:

Source: https://twitter.com/DavidHAltman/status/1702040251248627900/photo/2

Content from External Source

 

[Curious George]

One of the better news articles on yesterday's alien bodies:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico...purported-non-human-being-bodies-to-congress/

Content from External Source

Jamie Maussan brought two boxes containing what he said were the small, stuffed bodies of extraterrestrials recovered in Peru in 2017. He said carbon-14 dating carried out by the National Autonomous University of Mexico had determined the remains were 700 and 1,800 years old. Each of the figures has only three fingers on each hand and elongated heads, resembling, at least superficially, the Hollywood-born character ET.
"This is the first time it (extraterrestrial life) is presented in such a form and I think there is a clear demonstration that we are dealing with non-human specimens that are not related to any other species in our world," Maussan told the lawmakers, urging them to consider the topic, which he said should not be viewed as "a political topic — it's a topic for humanity."

He said DNA evidence could prove the specimens were not of this planet, but it wasn't clear if any such tests had been carried out.

At least one previous claim by Maussan about purported "non-human" remains discovered in Peru has been debunked, though the specimens he presented Tuesday in Mexico City appeared different to the one he previously spoke about in 2015.
The hearing was to debate language on UAP in the Aerial Space Protection Law, which, if approved, would turn Mexico into the first nation to formally acknowledge the presence of alien life ever existing on Earth, the Reuters news agency said, citing local media.

 

[Ann K]

IT'S RELATED TO MR. BEAN!!!!

The corpse will henceforth be known in future scholarly publications in academic circles as "Tofu man".

 

[Curious George]

The DNA tests revealed nothing due to the chemicals being used

The DNA samples posted showed 100% quality, I assume that means all fragments were able to be lined up and matched. Is that possible in the interference of chemicals?
Just a brief primer on how DNA is tested, we can only read short strings of DNA, so the fragments are matched end to end by an algorithm which finds unique sequences to "connect the dots" as it were.

 

[Curious George]

Here's a question, the carbon dating is stated as being about 1000 years. However, the very basis of carbon dating is that carbon was injested by the creature somehow up until the time of death, then started decaying.
In order for the dating to be valid, one has to assume the creature was living on Earth and somehow absorbing carbon. It had no teeth, what was it eating? Soya milk?

 

[John J.]

The validity of C-14 testing rests on the authenticity of the sample being tested.
I guess we don't know the rates of C-14 production in alien biospheres!

I think the DNA results are essentially irrelevant.
Why the person who submitted the samples used material derived from common beans, contaminated with human DNA, is a question only they can answer.

 

[Mendel]

The DNA samples posted showed 100% quality

Where do you see that? The taxonomy analyses had a large percentage "unidentified reads".

 

[Curious George]

Why the person who submitted the samples used material derived from common beans, contaminated with human DNA, is a question only they can answer.

But this isn't clear to me. You are treating the DNA results as if it's possible to just mix different things together. However, my understanding of sequencing is that the fragments have to be matched to a high degree of confidence into an entire, consistent sequence. That implies this is actually a full DNA with sections resembling bean and human, not different bits of DNA from different things mixed together. This all hinges on the number of base pairs used to match the fragments together.

 

[JMartJr]

what was it eating? Soya milk?

material derived from common beans

Cannibals, are they?

 

[Mendel]

But this isn't clear to me. You are treating the DNA results as if it's possible to just mix different things together. However, my understanding of sequencing is that the fragments have to be matched to a high degree of confidence into an entire, consistent sequence. That implies this is actually a full DNA with sections resembling bean and human, not different bits of DNA from different things mixed together. This all hinges on the number of base pairs used to match the fragments together.

Have you ever heard of chromosomes? DNA isn't a single long strand.

 

[Curious George]

Where do you see that? The taxonomy analyses had a large percentage "unidentified reads".

Ok, I answered my own question.


So, to continue with my explanation, on average 165 base pairs matched in order to piece together the full sequence. That implies an extremely low coincidence that mismatched fragments could be out of sequence.

 

[Curious George]

Have you ever heard of chromosomes? DNA isn't a single long strand.

Great, that is the question I'm asking, so thanks for answering it. So, the results can be explained by a mixture on the chromosome level of different biological materials. What are the 30% unknown chromosomes then?

 

[jarlrmai]

I might be completely wrong but surely it's not one cell's DNA strand being sequenced, by the looks of that result the contents of the sample analysed was mostly a specific bean plant and a "soup" of many different species like you might find on a contaminated sample, with some human line cells and a percentage of those not being intact enough to nail down to a species hence the percentages in the descending taxonomic tree to homo sapiens. With the rest being commonly occurring microorganisms generally pervasive in the environment (bacteria/funguses and the like.)

Ie if you DNA sampled a smoothie, you might get Kiwifruit, Strawberry, Banana etc returned form the various cells in the sample and if the smoothie was left on the counter for a while you'd also get more fungus and bacteria.

 

[Curious George]

There is a summary of the evidence here. For example, the debunk that it's pieced together by various bones is allegedly refuted by saying the bones are hollow.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1702018060411093160.html

Content from External Source

Note: too long to replicate it all here.
It would need an extensive debunk to refute all the claims. The existing debunk as far as I know from a cursory examination, centred around the similarity of the bones to other known animals, problems in mirroring the joints, and a few other points, however, a lot of these are addressed in the current presentation.
So, evolution of a massive hoax, or further evidence?

 

[John J.]

So, the results can be explained by a mixture on the chromosome level of different biological materials.

It is much more likely explained by a mixture of DNA from different organisms.
The lab wouldn't have isolated a single molecule of DNA to test.