Alex Jones- Debunked!

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Bill

Senior Member.
Certainly. From the longbow to CCTV, technology is very often at the forefront of major changes and new developments in world affairs. That's what they are, though. Changes and new developments. To say they're all part of the same overarching human condition evidenced throughout history isn't inaccurate, but the same could be said of any and every human act/interaction, ever. Pointing out that greed and the desire to dominate aren't new doesn't change the fact that the system being established now has never been established before, making it new by definition.

Doesn't your anecdote directly counter your position? That your friend hasn't suffered to any notable extent as a result of the Russian revolution is great for her, but your story suggests both her and her family no longer have a place in the Russian aristocracy in the long-term. Thus the revolution clearly had a long-term effect on those members of the aristocracy at least, didn't it? Not on their lifestyle perhaps, but certainly on their ability to influence Russia.
Their family may not have maintained position and influence in Russia but European Aristocracy was never confined inside national borders. Despite the efforts of the communist party the Russian aristocracy has managed to maintain its lineages and when leaving Russia found ready access to family money and positions of influence. I don't know how much influence the old aristocracy has in the post communist government but with ready access to money and international contacts I can see them doing quite well.
 

Bill

Senior Member.
Inclined to agree. People see these revolutions, France to Ireland, Russia to China, as calamitous failures, don't they? However, though they failed to bring about lofty, utopian realities, they succeeded, to some significant degree, in destroying feudal systems (at great cost, admittedly), which was their point within a long historical process. Even Mr Jones has a role, and quite a significant one too, I'd contend, in this process as it continues.
To the peasant it doesn't matter if you call it a feudal system or a collective farm. Their position in society hasn't improved. How are these revolutions a success if all they do is change who is power without improving the lot of the very people the revolution was supposed to help. In each case a powerful elite emerged with all the trappings that come from money and power at the expense of the surviving citizenship.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
I agree and thus your previous comment- "The most evident and indisputable difference between past systems and the present system is the powerful influence of modern technology" is inaccurate as you admit that "modern" technology has always had a powerful influence in past "systems".
Forehead to brick-wall moment. You're referring to technologies of the past as modern because in the past they were modern, and suggesting that means modern isn't new...? I don't even... Ugh.
I'm just gonna re-quote my previous statement with emphasis and naively hope for the best.
From the longbow to CCTV, technology is very often at the forefront of major changes and new developments in world affairs. That's what they are, though. Changes and new developments. To say they're all part of the same overarching human condition evidenced throughout history isn't inaccurate, but the same could be said of any and every human act/interaction, ever.



What? The wealthy elite controlling the vast majority of the Worlds wealth is new?
No. The current, modern system through which this is being achieved to an unprecedented degree is absolutely new. It's asinine to suggest otherwise, unless you can prove Rockefeller and the East India Company engaged in algorithmic trading, just to start.
 
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Boodles

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To the peasant it doesn't matter if you call it a feudal system or a collective farm. Their position in society hasn't improved. How are these revolutions a success if all they do is change who is power without improving the lot of the very people the revolution was supposed to help. In each case a powerful elite emerged with all the trappings that come from money and power at the expense of the surviving citizenship.
Sure, elites emerge, trappings, what-not. Peasant is an outmoded term for the most part in former communist or socialist European nations, which may demonstrate it's therefore slightly mischievous to assert such revolutions (or related structural changes) brought no positive difference for the populace within these territories. Ireland and Denmark have some of the best welfare systems in the world, Poland, Russia, in fact near all of the ex-socialist or communists states of the world (outside of Africa, unfortunately) have free education and free healthcare for all 'peasants'. You won't find a Pole, now working in the west, relying on anything other than the 'communist' health system back home, if he or she gets sick. It is better at home, that's why. Whereas in the United States...

www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=13497&page=1


As far as rural 'peasants' are concerned many rue the day communism collapsed. No more full employment, 'structural reforms' left, right and centre. That is to say, 'cuts and asset stripping'. I just mean it's not all about collectivisation in agriculture.

State controlled means of production brought about huge advances for these states, and eventually, benefits for near all citizens, obviously; still does, very much so, walk into any hospital in the world with no cash and a punctured lung (outside the U.S and Africa) to experience it. That's maturity, points in the process toward wisdom.

P.S The Communist Party may likely win power in Russia again soon. Food for thought. That'll get tongues wagging in the United States, no doubt. Would that be a first for the party - world wide - by democratic mandate rather than violent uprising? Perhaps. A whole new era, possibly.

I think people will not realise the full significance of these revolutions for a long time. It's currently very unfashionable to say so but I believe the democratic principles of communism will eventually win through across the entire planet. This is it's point - after all - and what the intelligentsia have generally been working toward, for centuries.

In this sense I'm entirely in agreement with many of Alex Jones followers in the states, but for completely the opposite reasons. I'll take the 'illuminist' global agenda with bells on, thanks, over backward capitalism.
 
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Alhazred The Sane

Senior Member.
Not sure where you're getting your information on Russia and Russians. I have a small group of Russian friends that I met on New Year's Eve two years ago: 5 men, 3 women. Not one of them romanticizes the fall of communism there, I've never heard any of them 'rue the day' it collapsed. Nor, for that matter, any of their friends. I've seen no indications that the communist party are anywhere near a return to power.

I should also point out that even in countries governed by the centre-right and the right, socialized medicine is the norm in Europe. Free education too.
 

Bill

Senior Member.
Sure, elites emerge, trappings, what-not. Peasant is an outmoded term for the most part in former communist or socialist European nations, which may demonstrate it's therefore slightly mischievous to assert such revolutions (or related structural changes) brought no positive difference for the populace within these territories. Ireland and Denmark have some of the best welfare systems in the world, Poland, Russia, in fact near all of the ex-socialist or communists states of the world (outside of Africa, unfortunately) have free education and free healthcare for all 'peasants'. You won't find a Pole, now working in the west, relying on anything other than the 'communist' health system back home, if he or she gets sick. It is better at home, that's why. Whereas in the United States...

Sure peasant is an out dated term, so is serf. What you call it is irrelevant. The issue is where you stand socially and in your ability to influence the government. The average person found themselves in the same place economically and socially post revolution they were pre-revolution. This assumes they were not part of the 100+ million that died as a consequence of the new government policies (five year plans, forced migration, the great leap forward).

The advances you are touting in education and health care occurred in both revolutionary and non-revolutionary states. They seem to be influenced by factors other than the form of government. If you are going to credit a governmental system with advances, you don't get to exclude countries where those advances did not take place (you can't just omit Africa because it's inconvenient).


P.S The Communist Party may likely win power in Russia again soon. Food for thought. That'll get tongues wagging in the United States, no doubt. Would that be a first for the party - world wide - by democratic mandate rather than violent uprising? Perhaps. A whole new era, possibly.

Election of the Communist party does not mean a return to government as it existed pre-1990 (unless the party plans on eliminating the other parties and reinstating the former socialist dictatorship). The party will still have to respond to the needs of the people and if it doesn't will find itself voted out of power.

It could also mean a lot of the population is to young to remember the joys of standing on line for hours to purchase basic needs.
 
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Clock

Senior Member.
http://leavingalexjonestown.blogspot.ca/2009/08/25-of-strangest-things-said-by-alex.html
 

Boodles

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Banned
Not sure where you're getting your information on Russia and Russians. I have a small group of Russian friends that I met on New Year's Eve two years ago: 5 men, 3 women. Not one of them romanticizes the fall of communism there, I've never heard any of them 'rue the day' it collapsed. Nor, for that matter, any of their friends. I've seen no indications that the communist party are anywhere near a return to power.
No problem, source was a BBC documentary, I will try to find it's name. Largely about the countryside around Arkhangelsk, the withdrawal of government subsidy bringing the destruction of rural (primary sector) industry and infrastructure, the desertion of entire towns. Sought to draw a distinction between the relatively wealthy technocratic classes in Moscow, St. Petersburg and elsewhere, and the suffering country dwellers. Obviously, Moscow is rolling in money like no other place on earth and many people are enjoying the nouveau riche trappings of wealth creation there.

'Rue the day' is just a nice, archaic turn of phrase my mother constantly uses. I just meant regret.

I was left in no doubt whatsoever that a certain and substantial part of the Russian demographic, above a certain age, in rural areas of central and northern Russia, who experienced full employment throughout their working lives, have been left disillusioned by Gorbachev's 'glasnost', or rather what followed on from it with Yeltsin, (hunger, loss of purpose, extreme nationalism, so called 'Jewish' oligarchical asset stripping from distant London apartments).

Regarding that last point, from an historical and conspiratorial point of overview, the Soviet communist project has actually succeeded in wrenching power from the Tsars and concentrating it in the hands of about 12 men in London but that's by the by (and a gross over-simplification).

Your second point there is also understood. I mean the Communist Party are potentially placed to hold the balance of power between United Russia and the Liberal Democrats. The Communist Party were the second party in Russia (last I checked, happy to stand corrected). One would presume those that do not recognise their potential within the balance are, by default, happy for our man from the KGB, Mr Putin (or his underling) to just continue in power forever.
I should also point out that even in countries governed by the centre-right and the right, socialized medicine is the norm in Europe. Free education too.
Yes, this is true but doesn't negate my point. Even the most ardent ruling advocate of the so called 'free market' (an oxymoron, arguably a type of monopoly capitalism and the antithesis of free) would be hard pressed to erode the hard work done by socialists within each of these countries during the course of a temporary centre-right or right wing tenure in government. These measures are introduced by the unassuming intelligentsia, the progressive socialists, back-office researchers, lawyers and academics, and simply managed by whatever government is in power down the road, the founders having created policy from intelligence, not base knowledge, or greed.

Take the UK, the entire world remembers the name of Winston Churchill, a man who was 'also there' when the Communist Party of Russia won World War ll for the western seaboard, when an altogether more intelligent (yet unsung) man of that time was the socialist reformer, Aneurin Bevan, whose legacy remains to this day. No one thanks or remembers the progenitors, socialist, collectivist philosophers to a man or woman.
Were right wing governments of a type in power for long enough in Europe privatisation of even the basest essential services would likely take place. It is happening right now, in fact, death by increments, as you know.

I know of no popular revolutions in Scandinavia, where the most progressive forms of socialism are instituted. That was why I spoke of 'related structural changes' (of a socialist type) rather than gun and pitch fork determinism.
 
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Boodles

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From a neo-Marxist perspective, Soviet communism is just another form of pernicious capitalism and, obviously, totalitarian in the extreme. I've no sympathy for it, a great disservice to his progressive ideas and a tremendous deceit. How does one ascend to the collective ideals espoused in great and noble works of word, when individuals within processes are corrupt to their very core, that's the fundamental philosophical question to address.
Guys, stay on topic.
Sorry. I was simply agreeing with @Grieves about power being ripped from the ancient ruling aristocracy of much of Europe and that this is actually very significant, even to Americans, whose very identity is founded upon the 'proto-communist' rhetoric of the radical, republican British activist and writer, Thomas Paine, ostensible alignment with French republicans and a rejection of the British aristocracy (though not convinced the latter is the case, in hindsight). I'm sure there's plenty of common ground with Alex Jones there, if one thinks about it, laterally. I'll shut up now :)
 
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Bill

Senior Member.
http://leavingalexjonestown.blogspot.ca/2009/08/25-of-strangest-things-said-by-alex.html
Is there a site that keeps track of his correct predictions?
 

Boodles

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Banned
The average person found themselves in the same place economically and socially post revolution they were pre-revolution. This assumes they were not part of the 100+ million that died as a consequence of the new government policies (five year plans, forced migration, the great leap forward).
I disagree. Russia was an utterly backward, medieval mess of loose allegiances with a German middle class in Moscow, in 1880, by 1980, it was the second most powerful nation on earth, with full employment. Ladas and bread lines are superficial issues. There's no bread in the stores here half the time and very little work to be found outside London (where I currently am). The policies of the most powerful nation on earth had a great deal to do with the failure of the Soviet Bloc (and that applies to Cuba (acutely) Ethiopia, Egypt, Libya, Ghana, India, Greece, and every other formerly 'socialist' leaning nation too).

I don't dispute any of the rest of what you have written, the ends never justify the means, whether it's western imperialists from Spain to the Americas kidnapping and enslaving millions of souls from Africa, to build the countries in which most of you guys live (one wonders when folks will finally get around to saying 'thank you') or draconian, murderous restructuring by the Bolshevik elite onward, in the supposed name of a humble Ashkenazi, who wrote under candlelight in a small rented room in Clerkenwell, London, Karl Marx, it hardly makes a difference. It's imperialism.

I just passed his room, by the way, and Lenin plotted the revolution from a room not 30 metres from where I now write. Always been a seething bed of criminality and exiled discontent in my neighbourhood.
The advances you are touting in education and health care occurred in both revolutionary and non-revolutionary states. They seem to be influenced by factors other than the form of government.
Yes, communism, i.e the work of Engels and Marx (on Manchester).
If you are going to credit a governmental system with advances, you don't get to exclude countries where those advances did not take place (you can't just omit Africa because it's inconvenient).
I didn't exclude Africa for convenience. I excluded it for the sake of being factual.
Election of the Communist party does not mean a return to government as it existed pre-1990 (unless the party plans on eliminating the other parties and reinstating the former socialist dictatorship).
Funny you should say that, it's a possibility, in line with Leninist thought on alternating between dictatorship and democracy to achieve ends. I'm already on the page you're reading.
The party will still have to respond to the needs of the people and if it doesn't will find itself voted out of power. It could also mean a lot of the population is to young to remember the joys of standing on line for hours to purchase basic needs.
Like the head of the communist 'KGB', Vladimir Putin? The emperor has endlessly bountiful, silken attire. Your faith in democracy is pleasing to the eye. Plaudits to you, sir. It's true about the youth demographic. I think I'm being slightly misunderstood here. When I speak of communism I speak of the philosophy underpinning Das Kapital, not Stalinist or Leninist technocratic policies emanating from any Polit Bureau. In terms of Russian internal politics, just reminding everyone that former allegiances are complex yet, to a significant extent, intact. Let's also not forget China, Russia's closest ally, of sorts, and soon to be the greatest nation on earth, is run by the Communist Party. Economically speaking, everything seems to be just tickety-boo. Let's not go there on sovereign wealth and western debt. The fat lady hasn't song just because Ronald Reagan and his dutiful assistant, George H. W. Bush, said so in the Washington Post. The fundamental ideas outlast a myriad bastardisations as they hold within them intellectual truth and therefore, likely will prevail, over all common, fashionable misunderstanding.

Amazing how far one gets into disagreements just by agreeing with one contributor to this thread on Alex Jones.
 
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SR1419

Senior Member.
Forehead to brick-wall moment. You're referring to technologies of the past as modern because in the past they were modern, and suggesting that means modern isn't new...? I don't even... Ugh.
I'm just gonna re-quote my previous statement with emphasis and naively hope for the best.

Make it count- the density of your forehead is seemingly quite formidable.

indeed-as I have repeated ad nasuem- the tools are "new". The premise, motivation and goals of economic exploitation are not. "Modern" technology just drives the bus...but the destination are the same. The same parameters that have dictated this system for centuries is the same. The financial gain of the wealthy through economic exploitation of market processes and political graft is as old as sin.

No. The current, modern system through which this is being achieved to an unprecedented degree is absolutely new. It's asinine to suggest otherwise, unless you can prove Rockefeller and the East India Company engaged in algorithmic trading, just to start.

No. What is asinine is your seemingly lack of historical perspective. Rockefeller and East India were not using computers for automated trading- but they were using all the principles behind the manipulation of the markets- the arbitrage, the hedging, trend following, reducing transaction costs etc...all trading techniques that existed long before someone put them in a computer program to run automatically. New tools...same basic concept of taking advantage of imperfect information for financial gain. Same as it ever was.
 

Boodles

Banned
Banned
http://leavingalexjonestown.blogspot.ca/2009/08/25-of-strangest-things-said-by-alex.html

Wow, so much to go on there. I adore number 20. Fantastic and fascinating idea. Someone should implement it (yes, I know it's roots).

Where I differ from most people, I suppose, is I agree with much of his emphasis; there is much truth there, in my opinion, and I haven't got to that stage of thinking by watching American cable television, or wherever it is that your Infowars thingy lives.

For the record, at a glance, what strikes me as true are clearly 6 and 7, elements of 8, possibly 10 (would have to research that), sceptical about all arguments pro and con 12, would hedge a bet truth in 17. 22 and 25 are clearly true in potential scope. 22 isn't half the story.
 
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Cairenn

Senior Member.
Sorry Boodles, your information about the Masons in totally incorrect. Many of our buildings are built in a Greek revival style, that was a popular style at that time, for all types of buildings, including homes. It is not Egyptian/Babylonian. It seems that Alex Jones has no concept of the history of architecture.

Do you have ANY evidence to back up any of your statements? Please post them.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
For the record, at a glance, what strikes me as true are clearly 6 and 7, elements of 8, possibly 10 (would have to research that), sceptical about all arguments pro and con 12, would hedge bet truth in 17. 22 and 25 are clearly true in potential scope. 22 isn't half the story.

8 reads:

really? Foster children are being singled out for this? how are they targeted??

And 22:
did you mean to put some sort of smiley or other indication od (black) humour after your comment that this was "only half the story", or do you really believe something like this??

At best the science is still out on that one :

 

Boodles

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Banned
Sorry Boodles, your information about the Masons in totally incorrect. Many of our buildings are built in a Greek revival style, that was a popular style at that time, for all types of buildings, including homes. It is not Egyptian/Babylonian. It seems that Alex Jones has no concept of the history of architecture.

Do you have ANY evidence to back up any of your statements? Please post them.

Do you have any evidence to refute them?

But first of all I would like to reassure you, once again, that in saying 'clearly 6' I am not being insulting or equating freemasonry to devil worship, not at all.

I think many people fall at the first hurdle there, have no idea their entire identity is predicated on the dark age appropriations of their forbears. The African mysteries of arithmetic, music and astronomy lie at the heart of all human endeavour, all understanding of existence.

Freemasonry pays homage to this. I am neither a mathematician, musician or astronomer, neither am I a biblical scholar or reader of hieroglyphics, nor a 19th degree initiate into any of these latter day western esoteric societies, nonetheless, I do at least understand, as I mentioned before to you, that reverence toward Lucifer pertains to light, and to Saturn, rather than any of the ideas of those who labour under false religious consciousness, or modern rationalists who also work from fundamental misunderstandings of their own cultural antecedents. I do not pretend to understand the significance of Saturn within the African mysteries, the genius of our ancient ancestors is beyond our limited scope, perhaps I should look into that and get back to you? I presume Saturn guides the night, and what of it, one wonders?

Greek architecture? This is falsehood. It's African. We have been here before and you didn't agree then either. No problem. Styles of long destroyed buildings are largely irrelevant. I was, once again, referring to African arithmetic and astronomy. You answered your own question by referencing Greece.
 
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Cairenn

Senior Member.
And all modern skyscapers are phallic symbols. Greek revival Is NOT Egyptian or African architecture.

The fact that you refuse to offer any evidence for you unfounded comments, just got you added to my ignore list. Continue with you beliefs---since it doesn't seem you wish to learn anything.
 

Boodles

Banned
Banned
really? Foster children are being singled out for this? how are they targeted??
The history of fostered and adopted children (in western society) unfortunately reads like a litany of woe. I've [...] immersed myself in a lot of the literature. I think people fall in personifying conspiratorial notions. They also fall in assuming such personifications render the existence of such as void. Mechanisms of all kinds conspire to actuate realities whereby fostered or adopted children end up statistically more likely to have children placed in foster care themselves, to be imprisoned, on low income, committing crime and suicide, and yes, in this case, on anti-psychotic or anti-depressant drugs with alarmingly disproportionate regularity. I can't speak for radiation and wonder what that is concerning. The whole area of adoption and fostering is curiously dark but I'll resist embellishing arguments with further personal anecdotes.
And 22:
did you mean to put some sort of smiley or other indication od (black) humour after your comment that this was "only half the story", or do you really believe something like this??
No smilies. Of course I do, not from having witnessed that specifically, from having witnessed evidence of hundreds of comparable acts, and there is nothing funny about it. I personally know men who have done the exact same thing in London and served a long time in prison for it. How many Americans do I need to watch pissing on the dead bodies of teenagers, leading naked and blindfolded kids around on a leash, malformed newly born, or toasted corpses of hundreds of children who didn't do a thing before such an idea becomes plausible to me? Quite surprised I'm having to defend this.

I don't know if you recall the internet diaries of American marines in Iraq, when they were 'fighting the good war' and therefore foolishly publishing their crimes with shameless impunity to one another, but I do, I was watching. It's all been removed from the internet - and d'you know what? I don't particularly hold soldiers, often misguided children themselves, to account for these things, it's a dehumanising experience, all told, and normative psychological barriers go out the window in such circumstances.
Fat causes fatness. MSG, any excessive salt intake, has been posited as possibly having a role in high blood pressure, which is related to obesity. Calcium has some functional relationship here too. There are complex co-determinants. I'm not a doctor, I have just avoided excess salt for years, have normal blood pressure and a normal weight. I wouldn't ban it, people like it, but it's surprising how foul even the tiniest amount of MSG tastes once one has totally eliminated added salts from one's diet.
 
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Grieves

Senior Member
No. What is asinine is your seemingly lack of historical perspective. Rockefeller and East India were not using computers for automated trading- but they were using all the principles behind the manipulation of the markets- the arbitrage, the hedging, trend following, reducing transaction costs etc...all trading techniques that existed long before someone put them in a computer program to run automatically. New tools...same basic concept of taking advantage of imperfect information for financial gain. Same as it ever was.
Yes, again, you are absolutely correct, greed and exploitation are not new. This hasn't been argued once. You don't need to keep restating it in ever-so-slightly different language. Now, please try and see my point that what I'm referring too is not and cannot be described by any stretch of the imagination as a 'basic concept'. It's a complex global financial system unique and unprecedented in human History. You can boil anything down to the 'same basic concept'. Hey, burlesque dancer or warrior-poet, they're both made of a fair bit of carbon, right? So when you boil it down beyond all recognition, same basic concept. But what does that have to do with anything...?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
The history of fostered and adopted children (in western society) unfortunately reads like a litany of woe. I've just spend the entire year working toward representations at the Supreme Court in the U.K in a related matter, and have immersed myself in a lot of the literature. I think people fall in personifying conspiratorial notions. Mechanisms of all kinds conspire to actuate realities whereby fostered or adopted children end up statistically more likely to have children placed in foster care themselves, to be imprisoned, on low income, committing crime and suicide, and yes, in this case, on anti-psychotic or anti-depressant drugs with alarmingly disproportionate regularity. The whole area of adoption and fostering is curiously dark but I'll resist embellishing arguments with further personal anecdotes.

so in fact no evidence for it at all.

No smilies. Of course I do, not from having witnessed that specifically, from having witnessed evidence of hundreds of comparable acts, and there is nothing funny about it. How many Americans do I need to watch pissing on the dead bodies of teenagers, leading naked and blindfolded kids around on a leash, malformed newly born, or toasted corpses of hundreds of children who didn't do a thing before such an idea becomes plausible to me? Quite surprised I'm having to defend this.

I don't know if you recall the internet diaries of American marines in Iraq, when they were 'fighting the good war' and therefore foolishly publishing their crimes with shameless impunity, but I do, I was watching. It's all been removed from the internet - and d'you know what? I don't particularly hold soldiers, often misguided children themselves, to account for these things, it's a dehumanising experience, all told, and normative psychological barriers go out the window in such circumstances.

Certainly some soldiers....but your post says it is hte habit of "American soldiers" - which paints the whole lot.

MSG, any excessive salt intake, has been posited as possibly having a role in high blood pressure, which is related to obesity. Calcium has some functional relationship here too. There are complex co-determinants. I'm not a doctor, I have just avoided excess salt for years, have normal blood pressure and a normal weight. I wouldn't ban it, people like it, but it's surprising how foul even the tiniest amount of MSG tastes once one has totally eliminated added salts from one's diet.

Ah....now you use "EXCESSIVE" in there.....so again backing off from the claim:rolleyes:

Here's an idea - why not make your ACTUAL claims in the first place, especially the factual ones, so you don't have to waste all our time with cutting through the bunk and we can actually get to those that we agree on and those about which there is a place for some discussion??
 

Boodles

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Banned
so in fact no evidence for it at all.
I'm not in the habit of being deliberately misleading. There is evidence fostered or adopted children in the west are disproportionately prescribed anti-psychotic and anti-depressant drugs. Just as I said.
Certainly some soldiers....but your post says it is hte habit of "American soldiers" - which paints the whole lot.
My 'post' says nothing of the kind. I made not one reference to habits in my own words, nor to any means of extrapolating universal behaviours from incidences involving parties engaged in invasions. That was your thought, and it's appreciated.
Ah....now you use "EXCESSIVE" in there.....so again backing off from the claim:rolleyes:
No, I don't tend to back off from claims here as I don't put forward anything I haven't given proper consideration to. The one exception, I believe, concerned the treaty on the arms trade. @Landru, who strikes me as reasoned, asked a simple question and I simply retracted the parts in which I was in error. I've no idea what you mean and will check but I simply do not view this forum as a competition whereby I set out to claim this and that like a moron and get rectified by those who know better, or vice versa.
Here's an idea - why not make your ACTUAL claims in the first place, especially the factual ones, so you don't have to waste all our time with cutting through the bunk and we can actually get to those that we agree on and those about which there is a place for some discussion??
I did and have. Go ahead. There's often a gaping chasm of silence though, isn't there, when folks are in error, be it slight or substantial. I try to concede all my errors or misunderstandings, in time, and note who else has courtesy to do the same.
 
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Boodles

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Banned
I deleted a couple of messages as I'd rather not go around in circles with those that can't grasp my emphasis.

I'll be succinct this time. The supposed 'lie' put out by Alex Jones (above) is that the Capitol buildings at Washington D.C are symbolically Egyptian or Babylonian. African or Babylonian, okay? I'm deliberately using the word Africa for Egypt.

This Washington D.C 'lie' has been dismissed by Careinn because many of the buildings are understood to be designed after the style of ancient Greece.

I have explained that African (and Babylonian and other) architectural styles of this type pre-date what is latterly interpreted as Greco-Roman by Europeans. Moreover, that this style is of no great relevance when we are referring, as is actually the fundamental point of this particular subject, to the African mysteries of arithmetic, music, geometry and astronomy; and in this case, more specifically, African trigonometry.

We had similar discussions before. She says anything I say around these subjects is nonsense, and here I say in all likelihood, yes, your Freemasonic elder brethren of old, and your yoked masons of the stone, builded ye a New Jerusalem, in honour of the Sulay man, Isis and Ra.

Yet hardly any among them realise. Quite, quite brilliant.

Cairenn has awareness of freemasonry so every single time I have mentioned them on this forum she has intercepted me within moments to dismiss what I say, only to be found to be wrong afterwards. The interception comes in the form of a presumption I'm a sort of schmuck bait for this site, spreading nonsense about conspiracies, without realising I am in Britain and my views on them are a little more nuanced than some others.

She says Alex Jones 'seems' to have no concept of architectural history. I might, therefore, venture to say she 'seems' to have no concept of Pythagorus of Samos, his induction within the African mysteries from where he learned everything (as did all the great thinkers of ancient Greece) and the absolutely critical role the African mysteries play in freemasonry and in fact all European secret societies from now, to the enlightenment, dark age, Christendom, Rome, Greece, Druidism and beyond.
 
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SR1419

Senior Member.
Yes, again, you are absolutely correct, greed and exploitation are not new. This hasn't been argued once. You don't need to keep restating it in ever-so-slightly different language. Now, please try and see my point that what I'm referring too is not and cannot be described by any stretch of the imagination as a 'basic concept'. It's a complex global financial system unique and unprecedented in human History. You can boil anything down to the 'same basic concept'. Hey, burlesque dancer or warrior-poet, they're both made of a fair bit of carbon, right? So when you boil it down beyond all recognition, same basic concept. But what does that have to do with anything...?

No. I do not see your point - at all. I think you are blind to the greater reality and breadth of history that shows this behavior and "system" is not "new" but a continuation of trends dating back centuries.

Unprecedented in its size perhaps but not in its origins, methods and outcomes. They don't use chariots or cannonballs to open markets anymore- just jet planes...but the motivation and reasoning are identical.

The same parameters that have dictated this system for centuries are the same- Its not just that greed and exploitation isn't new its the manifestation of that greed that isn't new- ie: The financial gain of the wealthy through economic exploitation of market processes and political graft. The consolidation of power and wealth. Wealthy corporations trying to manipulate political policy and outcomes to their advantage is not new. Just because they use computers to capture advantages in seconds rather than hours or days doesn't mean the system is new...only improved.
 
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Sausalito

Active Member
There is evidence fostered or adopted children in the west are disproportionately prescribed anti-psychotic and anti-depressant drugs. Just as I said.
Does this surprise you? Should any reasonable person imagine that the root causes of this can be found in some murky "agenda" managed by some equally murky cabal? This appears to be evidence of Alex Jones' tendency to cast every conceivable ill as part of some over-arching program to do, er, something bad. This reminds me of the classic Onion headline, 'KKK Member Struggles To Blame Blacks For His Hangover'.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
I'm not in the habit of being deliberately misleading. There is evidence fostered or adopted children in the west are disproportionately prescribed anti-psychotic and anti-depressant drugs. Just as I said.

no - what you said was:

For the record, at a glance, what strikes me as true are clearly 6 and 7, elements of 8,

and 8 reads:

Prescribing is not killing - UNLIKE what you said.

My 'post' says nothing of the kind. I made not one reference to habits in my own words, nor to any means of extrapolating universal behaviours from incidences involving parties engaged in invasions. That was your thought, and it's appreciated.

what you post said was:

22 isn't half the story.

in reference to

Perhaps then you could explain exactly what you mean by "22 isn't half the story"?? Because AFAIK it is none of the story at all - the only reference to anything of the kind I could find was 1 soldier threw 1 child (teen by the look) if a very small bridge


No, I don't tend to back off from claims here as I don't put forward anything I haven't given proper consideration to.

and that stops you being wrong?? :confused:

the fact is you modified your claim

I've no idea what you mean and will check but I simply do not view this forum as a competition whereby I set out to claim this and that like a moron and get rectified by those who know better, or vice versa.

huh? You've ben on this forum long enough to know that claims are examined and corrected as required.

I did and have. Go ahead. There's often a gaping chasm of silence though, isn't there, when folks are in error, be it slight or substantial. I try to concede all my errors or misunderstandings, in time, and note who else has courtesy to do the same.

feel free to make sense at any time.

Please!
 

Boodles

Banned
Banned
no - what you said was: [elements of 8] and 8 reads:
Prescribing is not killing - UNLIKE what you said.
Thanks for that insight into the verb prescribing not meaning the verb killing. Now, again you're putting words into my mouth. If you insist on being patronising and pedantic, I assure you I can excel at it too. Lesson one: Communication. The word 'elements'. Produces free rein to select any constituent part within a statement and infer and imply meaning at will, without having been tied to any position at all. 'Elements' should also immediately convey this fact to you, in fact compels you to respond within the terms I have set out. I'm confident you're with me, yet instead of establishing consensus on terms you have plumbed straight for your insight that verbs that mean different things, mean different things.

Actually, I'm done with that kind of talk now.

I genuinely don't know how to respond to you. I gave you a reasonably full and very clearly expressed range of views, some of which were quite interesting. I even hinted of my deep involvement in related issues at the very most senior level in the country, this year, and you're caplocking comparisons that weren't even defined, let alone expressed. You have no genuine interest in the subject and are replete of empathy on matters. You simply want to score points over irrelevancies rather than look at deeper issues.

Have you ever been with or regularly cared for a person who is on anti-psychotic drug treatments? Do you know the difference between depot injection and pills in terms of effects? Or how radically different types and doses can affect people? Have you ever experienced someone literally trying to scream out that a dose or type is so strong that it is going to literally knock them stone dead? What about the panic attacks, or the utterly terrifying side effects from side effects pills? (Not an error in the sentence). What does one do to help someone hallucinating from these side effects so badly they smash into things, walk in front of cars, become deranged? Or in the other extreme, they constantly pass out and smash their head on the concrete? Or worse still, when the dose is so strong they are literally catatonic, dribbling, their jaw, elbows and legs completely locked. Are you familiar with severe Tardive Dyskinesia? What about the tremendous depression such states bring about in a person? Are you aware of the loss of freedom, or will, of pride? What about the taboo and the shame? Ever noticed how woman on anti-psychotics effectively undergo forced sterilisation, in the prime of their lives, without menstruating in years? No? Have you ever had to help someone who has been on medication for a long period and then suddenly withdraws from it, the shock to the system this can bring? What about the effects of taking different drugs simultaneously, for heart problems, diabetes etc? Are you aware of the severe obesity brought about by anti-psychotics? Are you aware of contributing factors? Are you aware of the despair people suffer, not as a result of mental illness, but as a result of medication? If you are, why are you asking these questions?
what you post said was:
in reference to
Perhaps then you could explain exactly what you mean by "22 isn't half the story"?? Because AFAIK it is none of the story at all - the only reference to anything of the kind I could find was 1 soldier threw 1 child (teen by the look) if a very small bridge
You have ignored my other half of the story. Again, I gave a full and clear account of my view. More importantly to me, you accentuate nullifying significance to the particular mode of death of a single innocent child and not a proportional opposite to the summary execution of dozens of children by American soldiers on a hour to hour basis.
and that stops you being wrong?? :confused:
the fact is you modified your claim
The fact is I said it is true 'in potential scope'. Can I refer you to my top comment on the word 'elements'? It's a similar expression with no commitment whatsoever.
huh? You've ben on this forum long enough to know that claims are examined and corrected as required.
See last paragraph of that message, please. Was explained.
feel free to make sense at any time.
Please!
I generally do; and did then, also.
 
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Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Thanks for that insight into the verb prescribing not meaning the verb killing. Now, again you're putting words into my mouth. If you insist on being patronising and pedantic, I assure you I can excel at it too. Lesson one: Communication. The word 'elements'. Produces free reign to select any constituent part within a statement and infer and imply meaning at will, without having been tied to any position at all. 'Elements' should also immediately convey this fact to you, in fact compels you to respond within the terms I have set out. I'm confident you're with me, yet instead of establishing consensus on terms you have plumbed straight for your insight that verbs that mean different things, mean different things.

Actually, I'm done with that kind of talk now.

I genuinely don't know how to respond to you. I gave you a reasonably full and very clearly expressed range of views, some of which were quite interesting. I even hinted of my deep involvement in related issues at the very most senior level in the country, this year, and you're caplocking comparisons that weren't even defined, let alone expressed. You have no genuine interest in the subject and are replete of empathy on matters. You simply want to score points over irrelevancies rather than look at deeper issues.

Have you ever been with or regularly cared for a person who is on anti-psychotic drug treatments? Do you know the difference between depot injection and pills in terms of effects? Or how radically different types and doses can affect people? Have you ever experienced someone literally trying to scream out that a dose or type is so strong that it is going to literally knock them stone dead? What about the panic attacks, or the utterly terrifying side effects from side effects pills? (Not an error in the sentence). What does one do to help someone hallucinating from these side effects so badly they smash into things, walk in front of cars, become deranged? Or in the other extreme, they constantly pass out and smash their head on the concrete? Or worse still, when the dose is so strong they are literally catatonic, dribbling, their jaw, elbows and legs completely locked. Are you familiar with severe Tardive Dyskinesia? What about the tremendous depression such states bring about in a person? Are you aware of the loss of freedom, or will, of pride? What about the taboo and the shame? Ever noticed how woman on anti-psychotics effectively undergo forced sterilisation, in the prime of their lives, without menstruating in years? No? Have you ever had to help someone who has been on medication for a long period and then suddenly withdraws from it, the shock to the system this can bring? What about the effects of taking different drugs simultaneously, for heart problems, diabetes etc? Are you aware of the severe obesity brought about by anti-psychotics? Are you aware of contributing factors? Are you aware of the despair people suffer, not as a result of mental illness, but as a result of medication? If you are, why are you asking these questions?
You have ignored my other half of the story. Again, I gave a full and clear account of my view. More importantly to me, you accentuate nullifying significance to the particular mode of death of a single innocent child and not the summary murder of dozens of children by American soldiers on a hour to hour basis.

The fact is I said it is true 'in potential scope'. Can I refer you to my top comment on the word 'elements'. It's a similar expression with no commitment whatsoever.
See last paragraph of that message, please. Was explained.

I generally do. And did then, also.
You have cast pearls of wisdom .....
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Definitely. The post exhausted far too many keystrokes to convey an engorged self-importance.
Interesting example of miscommunication then.

I intended nothing of the kind. Boodles, IMO was clearly drawing on a wealth of deep experience and painful expertise in sharing that post. I found it very moving and enlightening... full of wisdom born of experience. He laid it on the line and each will draw what they will from it. I suppose it could be likened to the scattering of seed, some falling on fertile ground and some on stony hard ground. No euphemism intended.
 

Boodles

Banned
Banned
Definitely. The post exhausted far too many keystrokes to convey an engorged self-importance.
I'm verbose, lack conciseness and take too long to get to points. I'm mercurial. I could go on to prove that point again. I apologise for that. It's just how I am as a lot flies through my mind.

However, it's impossible to list dozens of negative impacts from certain drugs without doing exactly that and being detailed. Would it be better to just write 'stuff happens'?

Also, I was responding to another list, the bits I picked out from @Clock's earlier post on Alex Jones that have been put back to me several times in a lump, it's difficult to remain clear with several totally different issues being discussed simultaneously.
 
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Boodles

Banned
Banned
I intended nothing of the kind. Boodles, IMO was clearly drawing on a wealth of deep experience and painful expertise in sharing that post. I found it very moving and enlightening... full of wisdom born of experience. He laid it on the line and each will draw what they will from it. I suppose it could be likened to the scattering of seed, some falling on fertile ground and some on stony hard ground. No euphemism intended.
I understood what you meant and I appreciated it. You're correct in saying it's born of experience. In fact my point there was it's doubly from experience, related to both prescription drugs and fostered children, which wasn't addressed but that's just as well. I'd like to share experiences but am effectively under a gagging order and loose words can amount to contempt of court and a stiff prison sentence. I'm finding people underestimate just how seriously the courts take contempt in the area of family law. I believe this point is relevant to the question @Sausalito asked of me, and to the 'Jonesian' take on foster care, generally, and will see if I can get together a coherent response that incorporates it.
 
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