Alex Jones- Debunked!

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Boodles

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Er, Babylon wasn't located in Africa.
I see @Cairenn has 'liked' your reply there, which is fine, but brings to my mind certain subjective perceptions which I'll come to in a minute.

I'm going to start using my new descriptor 'Jonesian' more often, and it's the Jonesian bone of contention concerning Washington D.C capitol buildings and structures that is actually of greatest interest to me in this thread. To be fair, it's hardly Jonesian, many have argued over this sort of thing for a long time.

I will retrieve evidence for @Cairenn, who has unfortunately left the room on this one, so may not see it or engage in discussion. The literature is in another city, I'm stuck writing from a phone as ever, but will pull something together after this message. I'm confident evidence can easily be dismissed as esoteric 'mumbo jumbo' and mere coincidence by anyone who cares to countenance, then I can move on.

Before I do that I wish to respond to your point regarding my use of place names such as Babylon, Egypt or Africa, and any confusion arising from it.

Let's be clear, what I'm talking about is simply one line from an earlier post on Alex Jones, and nothing else. I have no material from Alex Jones on this, other than those words. My simple agreement with it, "at a glance", comes from reading material that has nothing to do with Infowars:

http://leavingalexjonestown.blogspot.ca/2009/08/25-of-strangest-things-said-by-alex.html

The reason I spoke of both Babylon and Egypt is simply because they are both in the statement. My emphasis, however, regards Africa.

I do wonder a little as to why @Cairenn has 'like' backed what was, I believe, a simple interjection and call for clarity on your part, rather than a criticism? I subjectively interpret the 'like' as affirming a 'backing proof' that I was somehow wrong to have asserted Babylon is in Africa, in order to discredit my positive position on Jones' statement, when in fact I never even stated that Babylon was in Africa in the first place.

It would be like saying Bermuda is in Venezuela or New York is in Chicago! - and is irrelevant.

The reasons I spoke of Africa (though Africa is not in the statement) are many fold and complex, and motivated by truth, reason, politics, ideology and not least, plain and simple geography. I will speak relentlessly (not here, anywhere in life) within such terms to counter the conceits of the one hundred generations since Herodotus, and more particularly those since the enlightenment and European colonial era. This connects to the greatest holocaust, conspiracy and lie of the entire history of mankind! - And I will make humble efforts, at every opportunity, to redress imbalances and distortions that pervade society everywhere one turns.

Some folks simply cannot get on board with certain truths; in colonial Europe, America, particularly so. To accept truth is to watch one's world view crumble. Can one imagine 'caucasian' people in the deep south of the states, in rural England or elsewhere, who nowadays, because of politically correct conceits, repress ingrained views that their country is white and that the black people in their neighbourhoods are not actual fellow countrymen or women, Americans, Britons, or whatever, but 'other' people who through happenstance of history now live next door or share the bus, accepting a truth that these same people their parents and grandparents told them are nothing, are stupid, are ex-slaves, dangerous, common and lascivious are in fact the people they owe nearly everything to in terms of human civilisation, science, mathematics and reasoning?

This is such a taboo and a perhaps subliminal or subconscious aspect of the biggest taboo in the United States. Cuts people's complacent identities to ribbons so people simply do not want to go there. Many mask this under faux-liberal attitudes, I've touched on that before.

Now, this may all seem tangential to readers but I believe this is the reason why contentions such as Alex Jones', in this instance, are suppressed. The question I ask is "So what if it is an occult, Egyptian Washington D.C?" This is where I, yet again, agree with a 'conspiracy view' but fundamentally differ in interpretation of it. However, we're talking here of the centre of the greatest nation on earth, with white, Anglo-Saxon and Protestant Christian founding fathers, a country borne of the slave trade, laying testament in stone to Africa, to the occult mysteries and gods that form the very genesis of our concept of God and human endeavour. Such an idea is unseating, and cannot be accepted.

I don't wish to get involved in debates about various cradles of civilisation, wonderful things emanated from all peoples everywhere. I just wish to be clear. The entire world has passed through Egypt, Arabs, Romans, Greeks, Persians, Babylonians, and all have contributed, no doubt, but the ancient Egyptians themselves are African people, Ethiopians, as Herodotus described them, in the days before taboo and lies of the type that shape our everyday lives.

I'm happy to strike two words from Jones' statement:

http://leavingalexjonestown.blogspot.ca/2009/08/25-of-strangest-things-said-by-alex.html

For three reasons:

1: I can't speak for 'all'. I'm referring to overall original design, structure and dimensions.
2: I can't speak for Babylon. Regard that as somewhat of a distraction. I've come across Alex Jones invoking the name 'Babylon' quite regularly. Unlike Egypt, a place that still very much exists, Babylon, though still there too, speaks of a mystic and fabled past, and ties in with his well publicised views on Skull and Bones, Bohemian Grove and Druidic cultism, which is all good and, unlike many here, I'll go along with elements of that, but it's not pertinent here.
3: Mystery cults, be they Babylonian, Greek or Roman go back to Egypt and the African peoples, as do we all, according to modern science. The sources I have come across concerning Washington D.C speak of Egypt, Africa, only.
 
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MikeC

Closed Account
Did Jones say the new version or the old one?

After all it is him that is supposed to be being debunked.....
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
... I'm confident evidence can easily be dismissed as esoteric 'mumbo jumbo' and mere coincidence by anyone who cares to countenance, then I can move on.
....
Then it's probably not evidence, in the context of proving an assertion, so it's better not to bother.

Though if the thread wants to get split into 'evidence for occult babylonian architecture in the west' or whatever then it may as well be explored. For those that are into that sort of thing.


....

The reasons I spoke of Africa (though Africa is not in the statement) are many fold and complex, and motivated by truth, reason, politics, ideology and not least, plain and simple geography. I will speak relentlessly (not here, anywhere in life) within such terms to counter the conceits of the one hundred generations since Herodotus, and more particularly those since the enlightenment and European colonial era. This connects to the greatest holocaust, conspiracy and lie of the entire history of mankind! -....

Why don't you actually just say the word 'slavery' if that's what you're talking about? There's no point in being obscure.

No offence, your writing is pleasant enough and has a wide view, but there's such a thing as efficacy, brevity and pertinence. It makes forum conversation more manageable and less gets lost in translation.

ETA (and I do understand you're responding to questioning to do with topical Alan Jones trivia, but if I see more than two paragraphs written in the same post my brain emits a loud humming noise that renders all subsequent words meaningless.)
 
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Boodles

Banned
Banned
Boodles, I'd be interested in which Capitol architect is considered an occultist? There have been a few, I believe.
So would I, in a sense. But this isn't the way I think about this. My support of the statement is based upon design aspects, and not the personalities of those behind the designs. However, I take your point, his statement says 'designed by occultists'. I considered removing the word 'occultists' too, not because it is necessarily false but because it is distracting. I decided not to because it would water the statement down and it isn't necessary to remove it.
Did Jones say the new version or the old one?
That's a very fair question. To reiterate, I have given an opinion with respect to a single sentence above. I assume he is referring to the newer structures. I am.
Then it's probably not evidence, in the context of proving an assertion, so it's better not to bother.
I was being a little sarcastic. Evidence comes in many forms and need not be complete proof to be valid. I am not here to prove anything to anyone. I could stand people literally under and touching the Egyptian obelisk in Washington DC and they'd still come on here and ask for "any" evidence structures in Washington DC are Egyptian. Some folks think a phallus is a building too.
Though if the thread wants to get split into 'evidence for occult babylonian architecture in the west'
Egyptian. You didn't read that passage but that's perfectly alright, old chap.
Why don't you actually just say the word 'slavery' if that's what you're talking about? There's no point in being obscure.
I did mention that. To just say that word would not convey what I mean. There was no obscurity, in my view. Quite the opposite.
If I see more than two paragraphs written in the same post my brain emits a loud humming noise that renders all subsequent words meaningless.
:) Perhaps you've an answer to your quandary regarding obscurity there, then.
 
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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
I did mention that. To just say that word would not convey what I mean. There was no obscurity, in my view. Quite the opposite.

You did eventually. You mentioned 'the greatest holocaust, conspiracy and lie of the entire history of mankind!' but it didn't become clear until later what you meant.
(and I'd agree - cautiously, as it's a very emphatic statement. There's still the witch hunts and the Inquisition remember.)
Obscure is perhaps the wrong word. You expressed your view well and with sincerity, in the end.
But was there a point? Other than some historical/cultural commentary?
(that's only 'invalid' in context of the tangible simplicity this site aims for, which I see value in. Not everything can be 'reduced' to such things, but what can be will be, what can't can be left floating in the ether of future dinner party conversation).

To drag this detour back on topic a little, unless you can relate what you were saying back to a Jones claim, perhaps you could go into why this is true, and why it means anything sinister...

6. "We know the Freemasons at the highest levels worship Lucifer, they say that in their own writings."

So what? The light-bringer? What's wrong with that? That would fit in with it being a relic of the historical Enlightenment.
Really that statement just relies on christians being uptight squares.

And I'd be interested in what your research turns up for
10. Aldous Huxley admitted the brainwashing techniques in Brave New World were drawn from actual elite plans for humanity, told to him by brother Julian. (Coast to Coast AM, Nov. 6/7, 2007)
 

Boodles

Banned
Banned
Boodles, I'd be interested in which Capitol architect is considered an occultist? There have been a few, I believe.
Hello again.

I must admit I didn't quite understand a) the structure of your question and b) the context of it or what quite you imply?

Regards a) Do you mean there have been a few architects or a few so called occultists? Regards b) Are you casting doubt on the assertion of occultism? If so what is your view of terms such as the occult? Or alchemy for that matter?

If it's dismissive and pejorative then I suspect you'll be working from a fundamental misunderstanding but I won't make that assumption.

In answer to your question, I will assume all of them are occultists, but my interpretation of occult, explained in my previous messages, may be radically different to yours.

John Russell Pope is a very good person to start with. He designed @Cairenn's "Greek Revivalist" Supreme Council building with the 13 step uncapped Egyptian pyramid and the Egyptian sphinx's guarding the gate. To be fair, it's modelled after a building that was in east Turkey but both the original and the one in D.C are obviously riddled with Egyptian sorry "Greek" symbolism.
 
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Boodles

Banned
Banned
Did Jones say the new version or the old one?

After all it is him that is supposed to be being debunked.....
It is my understanding debunking a person involves debunking their words, methods, or reasoning. I may not have presented physical evidence (as I'm on a phone) but through words have attempted to demonstrate - as I was challenged to do so and derided for holding a view - that in this instance, he has not been "debunked". The principle here is surely to debunk what is wrong, and not to suggest something that is wrong, is right. And anyone asserting that he is wrong in this instance I shall attempt to debunk, as wrong! ;)
 

Boodles

Banned
Banned
You did eventually. You mentioned 'the greatest holocaust, conspiracy and lie of the entire history of mankind!' but it didn't become clear until later what you meant.
You misunderstood me again, I'm afraid. I was and am literal and I feel I was clear, but obviously not. I wasn't talking about slavery. Sure, it is ultra-significant, American slavery is a defining cultural taboo and still pervades life and relations, but that is only "part" (as I said) of a much, deeper issue that is key here. You should take my words literally. Holocaust, conspiracy and lies refers not to slavery (slavery refers to slavery). I meant outright destruction (which is what holocaust is), collusion and cultural appropriation of everything we know. Think the destruction of the library at Alexandria in Egypt, think Knights Templar, Judaism, Christianity, the so called "enlightenment", colonialism, plunder, science, history, maths... Think the founding fathers. It's the history of the world. Very big. I just set the record straight. No need to dwell on it.

Or do, when you read chemistry, physics, maths, when you look at named constellations in the sky, when you consider the circumference of the earth or moon, when you define things in terms of logic, when you ponder the classification of plants, medicine and such likes, or the periodic table, when you ponder your chosen god, consider how the work of the African mysteries has been so usurped the very terms and names, the Latinate nomenclature, whereby we describe the work of Africans by attributing it to Europeans, who in actual fact knew relatively little, if one goes very far back, and who learned nearly everything they eventually knew (and you and I take for granted) from very long periods of study in the black African universities that existed for thousands of years before the blooming of Greece. In this modern world, such is the strength of the conspiracy, our very words, are a denial of this fact.

And this is the relevant point at Washington D.C too. It's buildings and structures, and the talismans that zing within their relative spatial positioning, are a glowing, monumental, yet secret, acknowledgement of the African mysteries, by the freemasons who built them.

The point is your capitol city is not just occult, it's black. It's a testament in stone to the black living gods of Africa! And no white Americans can even conceive of this! I can't work out which of these truths would be harder for white Americans to face, "What? Occult AND black?" No wonder no one knows and I'm dismissed and denied.
But was there a point? Other than some historical/cultural commentary?
The point was absolutely pivotal. It is why the most blindingly obvious thing to very few, is being discussed here as though it were a "lunatic conspiracy theory" from a "Texas shock jock".

6. "We know the Freemasons at the highest levels worship Lucifer, they say that in their own writings."

So what? The light-bringer? What's wrong with that? That would fit in with it being a relic of the historical Enlightenment.
Really that statement just relies on christians being uptight squares.
Ah, at last we're getting somewhere. I mean this nicely, but your reply sounds like a rationalisation that is almost trying to correct me for being wrong?

:) But if you care to look at my very first message on this subject, what you've just said there is nearly exactly the same thing as I was first to say to everyone on the subject, yet I was jostled and "ignore buttoned" for having said it.

Question then arises, if you agree that the statement is true, why are you criticising the person who has already pointed it out as true? Shouldn't you be telling @Cairenn or @Clock, the OP? Another question is why is Alex Jones being critiqued for saying something that is true, and why is something true being published by a meta member here as one of the "25 Weirdest Things Ever Said By Alex Jones", as though one of his most incredible lies?

I said my first message and yours were "nearly" exactly the same, the light-bearer is nothing to do with the enlightenment, in my view. The freemasons are concerned with the African mysteries, as I keep saying. The "enlightenment" never really happened. Just like the "dark" age was not dark. It is less important than folks realise that central Europe was that late in waking up. The Arab world was excelling throughout! It's more of the essentialist Eurocentric conspiracy and lies I am talking about that no one seems to understand. The kind that'll have everyone believing Galileo, Eratosthenes or Aristotle discovered the world was round, without questioning it. The light of Lucifer is, I believe and am happy to be corrected, referring to Satan, Satin, Saturn, and Saturn has significance of some kind within the African mysteries of astronomy, (i.e now modern astronomy) but as I pointed out originally, I am uncertain of the significance. Perhaps one of our astronomer contributors could help us out with that?
And I'd be interested in what your research turns up for
10. Aldous Huxley admitted the brainwashing techniques in Brave New World were drawn from actual elite plans for humanity, told to him by brother Julian. (Coast to Coast AM, Nov. 6/7, 2007)
Long time since I read Huxley, a man who writes of very dark human potential. I'd rather not go there.

Or I will, quickly, but only about this dark side, with respect to Alex Jones' comment on freemasonry and Washington D.C, as it will put in context a misunderstanding I think we are having.

Though the freemasons who built Washington D.C's capitol buildings have built monumental testaments to the gods of Africa, it should be remembered they are very much part of (and victims of) the grand conspiracy against Africa. Some may not have even known they were building such a testament. Such is the hegemony of eurocentric thought it has only been in the last 40 years that Egyptologists from Berlin, Paris, London and New York have finally accepted what Arab and African scholars knew all along, namely, that the ancient Egyptians, and their living, ancestral gods, were black Africans, from Nubia, Sudan and Ethiopia.

My point is though secret societies protected knowledge and practices for good and true reasons, particularly during times of war, heresy and persecution, as we know, such "keepers of truth" have evolved in various forms and some off shoots have become very, very powerful. In this case, powerful enough to own and control your country and mine, powerful enough to control entire swaths of the planet and so they (whomever they may be) have great potential for darkness. Of course, we can all accept the word "potential".

Alex Jones is of the opinion "they" are actively and aggressively menacing, obviously, and that the architecture of the U.S capitol buildings is a clear indication of this. I know the so called occult and alchemy (or that which is of Khem/Egypt) is not necessarily menacing at all. I need not express my opinion on the sinister or otherwise nature of anything, least of all freemasons or governments, and shouldn't be misinterpreted as having expressed an opinion, unless one is expressed. This is because Alex Jones' comments in this case stand as truth, irrespective of any conclusions he may draw from them, and irrespective of what anyone may think of those conclusions.
 
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Sausalito

Active Member
The point is your capitol city is not just occult, it's black. It's a testament in stone to the black living gods of Africa! And no white Americans can even conceive of this! I can't work out which of these truths would be harder for white Americans to face, "What? Occult AND black?" No wonder no one knows and I'm dismissed and denied.

It's a real "can of worms" topic, and here off-topic to boot, but most ancient Egyptians were not "black" in the contemporary sense. I'm way too tired right now to get into this, but I've spent a good deal of time studying ancient Egypt. I've been around the country, studied middle Egyptian hieroglyphs, etc. But I'm just some dude. Most Egyptologists, however, will tell you the same.
 

qed

Senior Member
It's a real "can of worms" topic, and here off-topic to boot, but most ancient Egyptians were not "black" in the contemporary sense. I'm way too tired right now to get into this, but I've spent a good deal of time studying ancient Egypt. I've been around the country, studied middle Egyptian hieroglyphs, etc. But I'm just some dude. Most Egyptologists, however, will tell you the same.

Get into it!
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
... This is because Alex Jones' comments in this case stand as truth, irrespective of any conclusions he may draw from them, and irrespective of what anyone may think of those conclusions.
Well I think that's the point, he's taking popular misunderstandings of complex subjects ('sacred' geometry and mathematics, which most architects will have had a passing interest in and is likely to express itself in their work), and relying on the shock of 'occultism' to scare people into thinking there's a dark secret meaning to some every-day things.
It's his intent which is clearly bunk.
 

Boodles

Banned
Banned
Well I think that's the point, he's taking popular misunderstandings of complex subjects ('sacred' geometry and mathematics, which most architects will have had a passing interest in and is likely to express itself in their work), and relying on the shock of 'occultism' to scare people into thinking there's a dark secret meaning to some every-day things.
It's his intent which is clearly bunk.
Precisely! :)

Though I may disagree about the last point. I'd rather not get into the "new world order" or rather globalism and capital, and that sort of thing, right now.
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
So you're an afrocentrist?

Haven't you heard? We are ALL Africans. :)

 

Boodles

Banned
Banned
So you're an afrocentrist?
I'm an Irishist! If I have to take a position with respect to your question I would say yes, 100%. I wouldn't trust Wikipedia's take on this particular issue either for reasons I've already laboured upon. It's never a race thing for me, race is a bogus Platonic concept, does not exist. I'll demonstrate this.

Let's look at some of the scientific evidence from the discipline of physical anthropology that is contemporaneous with the height of Egyptology, perhaps we can learn something about Egypt and Afrocentricism, simultaneously?

Some interesting results:

405px-Scientific_racism_irish.jpg

Well, I must say I wasn't expecting this. I guess that's me exposed then. Science has spoken. I concede my inferiority. No wonder I was arguing "Afrocentric pseudo-history". My ape like mind can just about gauge from this damning, conclusive finding that my arguments are of a "low prognathous type" and my primitive ancestral cousins from Ethiopia could not possibly have risen to the genius that had genesis upon the banks of the Upper Nile. I apologise to my superiors who sit upon the higher branches of evolutionary humanity for my having been so... Iberian, in feeble conjecture.
:)
 
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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Sorry, what is wikipedia's 'take' exactly? They provide a summary of the arguments, and a summary of the criticisms.
Was that inaccurate?

And I don't understand your sarcasm above? What's your point?
 

Boodles

Banned
Banned
Sorry, what is wikipedia's 'take' exactly? They provide a summary of the arguments, and a summary of the criticisms. Was that inaccurate?
I apologise. Having read the entire page it's quite balanced. Lots of information. I hadn't clicked on the link, see, just saw the summary there with one sentence giving a reasonable explanation then the next trashing it as pseudo-history, reactionary and therapy, as though it's a neurotic indictment of Afro-Americans.
And I don't understand your sarcasm above? What's your point?
That was just a joke! :) Well, more than that it was a way to clearly demonstrate why Afrocentrism (and Irishism :) ) can and must exist, and a painfully visual way to illustrate the utterly pseudo-scientific nature of the 19th century anthropology that's a close academic neighbour to disciplines such as Orientalism and Egyptology at that time (which can be dubious too).

I don't see my view here as a counter-balance, I just see it as reasonably factual. I'm not arguing a pro-'black' position or a counter-'white' position. Just 'the' position, objectively, as I see it.

Having read your link I see several writers I was familiar with quite some time ago, notably W. E. B. Du Bois, and Cheikh Anta Diop, who I'd like to quote to tie in with @Sausalito, raising a question concerning, well, presumably this sort of issue:
I don't like the bogus Victorian terms of racial classification in which he is 'forced' to redress that issue. It was 1964, but his point is clear.
 
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Boodles

Banned
Banned
Sorry Boodles... our buildings are built in a Greek revival... It is not Egyptian... Do you have ANY evidence.
I know you can't hear me, but this guy does have evidence. It's complicated to explain in written words so a video will do. This gentleman makes good videos actually. I recommend the one on Jerusalem too. Quite surreal as among other things he demonstrates how the places of pivotal moments in the story of Jesus Christ's life form a dead straight horizontal axis across the city. Which is, well, quite amazing. Something going on there.

Anyway, here's Washington D.C, if you've never seen this before. He goes on occasional tangents. Worth while bearing with him though.
And part two.
 
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qed

Senior Member
It's a real "can of worms" topic, and here off-topic to boot, but most ancient Egyptians were not "black" in the contemporary sense. I'm way too tired right now to get into this, but I've spent a good deal of time studying ancient Egypt. I've been around the country, studied middle Egyptian hieroglyphs, etc. But I'm just some dude. Most Egyptologists, however, will tell you the same.

@Sausalito

Please withdraw this theory or start a new thread and back it up. For me, African-denialism is even worse than Holocaust denialism.
 

Alhazred The Sane

Senior Member.
I see @Cairenn has 'liked' your reply there, which is fine, but brings to my mind certain subjective perceptions which I'll come to in a minute.

I'm going to start using my new descriptor 'Jonesian' more often, and it's the Jonesian bone of contention concerning Washington D.C capitol buildings and structures that is actually of greatest interest to me in this thread. To be fair, it's hardly Jonesian, many have argued over this sort of thing for a long time.

I will retrieve evidence for @Cairenn, who has unfortunately left the room on this one, so may not see it or engage in discussion. The literature is in another city, I'm stuck writing from a phone as ever, but will pull something together after this message. I'm confident evidence can easily be dismissed as esoteric 'mumbo jumbo' and mere coincidence by anyone who cares to countenance, then I can move on.

Before I do that I wish to respond to your point regarding my use of place names such as Babylon, Egypt or Africa, and any confusion arising from it.

Let's be clear, what I'm talking about is simply one line from an earlier post on Alex Jones, and nothing else. I have no material from Alex Jones on this, other than those words. My simple agreement with it, "at a glance", comes from reading material that has nothing to do with Infowars:

http://leavingalexjonestown.blogspot.ca/2009/08/25-of-strangest-things-said-by-alex.html

The reason I spoke of both Babylon and Egypt is simply because they are both in the statement. My emphasis, however, regards Africa.

I do wonder a little as to why @Cairenn has 'like' backed what was, I believe, a simple interjection and call for clarity on your part, rather than a criticism? I subjectively interpret the 'like' as affirming a 'backing proof' that I was somehow wrong to have asserted Babylon is in Africa, in order to discredit my positive position on Jones' statement, when in fact I never even stated that Babylon was in Africa in the first place.

It would be like saying Bermuda is in Venezuela or New York is in Chicago! - and is irrelevant.

The reasons I spoke of Africa (though Africa is not in the statement) are many fold and complex, and motivated by truth, reason, politics, ideology and not least, plain and simple geography. I will speak relentlessly (not here, anywhere in life) within such terms to counter the conceits of the one hundred generations since Herodotus, and more particularly those since the enlightenment and European colonial era. This connects to the greatest holocaust, conspiracy and lie of the entire history of mankind! - And I will make humble efforts, at every opportunity, to redress imbalances and distortions that pervade society everywhere one turns.

Some folks simply cannot get on board with certain truths; in colonial Europe, America, particularly so. To accept truth is to watch one's world view crumble. Can one imagine 'caucasian' people in the deep south of the states, in rural England or elsewhere, who nowadays, because of politically correct conceits, repress ingrained views that their country is white and that the black people in their neighbourhoods are not actual fellow countrymen or women, Americans, Britons, or whatever, but 'other' people who through happenstance of history now live next door or share the bus, accepting a truth that these same people their parents and grandparents told them are nothing, are stupid, are ex-slaves, dangerous, common and lascivious are in fact the people they owe nearly everything to in terms of human civilisation, science, mathematics and reasoning?

This is such a taboo and a perhaps subliminal or subconscious aspect of the biggest taboo in the United States. Cuts people's complacent identities to ribbons so people simply do not want to go there. Many mask this under faux-liberal attitudes, I've touched on that before.

Now, this may all seem tangential to readers but I believe this is the reason why contentions such as Alex Jones', in this instance, are suppressed. The question I ask is "So what if it is an occult, Egyptian Washington D.C?" This is where I, yet again, agree with a 'conspiracy view' but fundamentally differ in interpretation of it. However, we're talking here of the centre of the greatest nation on earth, with white, Anglo-Saxon and Protestant Christian founding fathers, a country borne of the slave trade, laying testament in stone to Africa, to the occult mysteries and gods that form the very genesis of our concept of God and human endeavour. Such an idea is unseating, and cannot be accepted.

I don't wish to get involved in debates about various cradles of civilisation, wonderful things emanated from all peoples everywhere. I just wish to be clear. The entire world has passed through Egypt, Arabs, Romans, Greeks, Persians, Babylonians, and all have contributed, no doubt, but the ancient Egyptians themselves are African people, Ethiopians, as Herodotus described them, in the days before taboo and lies of the type that shape our everyday lives.

I'm happy to strike two words from Jones' statement:

http://leavingalexjonestown.blogspot.ca/2009/08/25-of-strangest-things-said-by-alex.html

For three reasons:

1: I can't speak for 'all'. I'm referring to overall original design, structure and dimensions.
2: I can't speak for Babylon. Regard that as somewhat of a distraction. I've come across Alex Jones invoking the name 'Babylon' quite regularly. Unlike Egypt, a place that still very much exists, Babylon, though still there too, speaks of a mystic and fabled past, and ties in with his well publicised views on Skull and Bones, Bohemian Grove and Druidic cultism, which is all good and, unlike many here, I'll go along with elements of that, but it's not pertinent here.
3: Mystery cults, be they Babylonian, Greek or Roman go back to Egypt and the African peoples, as do we all, according to modern science. The sources I have come across concerning Washington D.C speak of Egypt, Africa, only.

Bloody hell, you don't half witter on.
 

Sausalito

Active Member
@Sausalito

Please withdraw this theory or start a new thread and back it up. For me, African-denialism is even worse than Holocaust denialism.

*Sigh*
As I said, can of worms. I shouldn't have said anything, and I probably shouldn't bother replying here. Let's get some things straight, without even exploring the "race" of ancient Egyptians:
1. I am concerned with facts.
2. I am not concerned with semantics or your personal feelings about facts.
3. There is more than ample evidence of the mass murder carried out by the Nazis - we have undeniable evidence for The Holocaust.
4. Ancient Egypt (of historical record): 5,000 - 2,000 years ago. The Holocaust: less than 100. We have substantially less-conclusive evidence about the "race" of ancient Egyptians, for what should be obvious reasons.
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = To my mind, Holocaust denial is worse in this case, because it denies readily available evidence.

Ancient Egypt and "race" gets people all worked up. That's a shame. I think that it's a funny thing to have strong personal feelings about. It's a topic that's been explored elsewhere in much depth, and the response from overly-vocal laypeople usually gives me a headache. I'll consider starting a thread on it (Rambles-destined, no doubt) that addresses a claim that can be dealt with squarely. Leaning away from it. Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_race_controversy - not a bad place to start. Just remember to check your "-ists" and "-isms" at the door when considering evidence - of anything.

PS - qed, is your image from an edition of Gravity's Rainbow? Easily one of my favorite pieces of literature.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Thus is the fate of all threads containing long lists - a dark morass of digressions and descents to semantics, often already made redundant by the handy summaries available on Wikipedia.

Maybe I should ban lists :)
 

Sausalito

Active Member
Thus is the fate of all threads containing long lists - a dark morass of digressions and descents to semantics, often already made redundant by the handy summaries available on Wikipedia.

Maybe I should ban lists :)
Yeah, you're right. At first I thought that "debunking" Alex Jones was silly; it's a bit like proposing to debunk the sounds of a running faucet. Then I accepted the inevitability of such a thread, and perhaps the usefulness. Addressing a wild, disorganized list of bunk proclamations seemed unavoidable - what's the alternative? Have 100s of threads devoted to this gas bag? So I felt okay about a list, considering our rambling man of interest (ugh, bit of a misnomer). Perhaps such a list might give perspective to a listener who has been swept up in the Jonesy bunk-stream, if his claims were listed. "Wow, look at this. Is this someone whose words I should actually heed? Golly."
But of course, any unfocused discussions will follow thermodynamics' second law...
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Maybe the best thing to try to do with lists is prune them down. If there's items in a list that are debatable (i.e. they end up in debate, like this), they they should be removed from the list. An "Alex Jones Debunked" list might be more effective if it contained a small number of indisputable errors, or lies, rather than a larger quantity that includes items open to some interpretation.
 

qed

Senior Member
@Sausalito

Perhaps I have misunderstood you.

  • Where any ancient Africans "black" in the contemporary sense?

If no, then sorry (duh!), else if yes, then which (the "Ethiop" I presume)?

You have referred to the "layperson". What are your qualifications in this field, and are you published?
 

qed

Senior Member
It's a real "can of worms" topic, and here off-topic to boot, but most ancient Egyptians were not "black" in the contemporary sense.

To be honest I am a little stunned at the behavior of the meta-members on this site.

The only evidence provided is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_race_controversy which begins
The very evidence provided as proof repeatedly emphasizes the fact that the very question is unscientific.

Not only did you let this bunk slide, many in fact like it.
 

Sausalito

Active Member
To be honest I am a little stunned at the behavior of the meta-members on this site.

The only evidence provided is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_race_controversy which begins
The very evidence provided as proof repeatedly emphasizes the fact that the very question is unscientific.

Not only did you let this bunk slide, many in fact like it.
Keep your shirt on. Of the wiki link, I merely said "not a bad place to start." I made no claim of "proof" of anything. You'll notice how I placed quotation marks around the word "black", qualified that by saying "in the contemporary sense", and subsequently placed quotation marks around the word "race". This is because the average person's conception of human "races" is generally pretty flawed and naive. The quotations are there because I am acknowledging this fact. I wrote the word that way precisely because it is unscientific (in the popular usage).
My original comment stands. As I said, although I have studied ancient Egypt in more depth than the average bear, I am not an Egyptologist or physical anthropologist, etc. I side with the available evidence that I am able to understand, and inevitably defer to experts here and there. I would refer you to them.
"But don't take my word for it..." - LeVar Burton, of Reading Rainbow


Edit: Also, you'll notice that I said "most" ancient Egyptians... There were definitely sub-Saharan Africans in the Egyptian population at various times and in varying profusions. Ancient Egyptian society, generally speaking, was not particularly "racist." If a foreigner accepted the Egyptian religion and ways of life, they were accepted as Egyptian. This doesn't fully address the multitude of foreigners who conquered Egypt throughout its history. Again, this isn't exactly a revelation. Go read up on ancient Egypt. Learn hieroglyphs. Do as I did and visit far-flung archaeological sites and get a stiffy for mummies. Yeah, so, ya know, Alex Jones.
 
Last edited:

qed

Senior Member
OK:):(.

We agree there is no scientific basis to race.

What then does your assertion mean, scientifically?

---------------------------------------------------

Sorry if I am sensitive to African-denialism. I only see your claim as a tiny piece of this denialism.

Regularly I meet people who prefer aliens to have built the pyramids rather than Africans.

African-denialism is even worse than Holocaust denialism. I meet both forms, and both repulse me.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Define 'profound'?
Profound to the average man in the street, or only to people who like to connect points on maps then create symmetrical shapes and then claim every historical meaning ever associated with that shape?
It's really hard to take seriously.
Different brains, different wiring, different ways of seeing the world.
 

Boodles

Banned
Banned
@Boodles

How precise are the vertices of these shapes with respect to their identifying buildings?
Good point. I'm back on a cellular and am not overly familiar with Washington DC. Now, looking at Richard Campbell's diagram the Washington Memorial looks slightly to the east of where it should be. Scott Onstott accounts for this by stating the desired pin point position had ground that was too soft, so it was moved to rock a few feet away. I haven't verified this. Other than that it would seem inch perfect, but who knows? I saw this a good while ago and remain convinced. I haven't even started! Had to leave the internet cafe and can't upload bitmaps, which is the format I have for various bits and pieces for that.
 
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