That's swell.I didn't make the video
So he's looking for someone to do that, not just talk about sublimation.Published on 3 Sep 2013
So you think you can debunk chemtrails ? Great lets be having you ...
And then some minor comments, not related to this challenge. Yeah, what about sublimation?Anyone on this page care to discuss this issue live on an interet radio ? I will accept anyone with the highest degrees in all relating sciences and I am 100% confident that they will agree with me regarding these strange trails that linger ... any takers ?
Forgive my use of "chemmie," I suppose it was not very polite, and certainly might give the impression of a polarized atmosphere. Welcome! I encourage you to delve into past discussions on these forums, and perhaps first www.contrailscience.comI'm not a chemmie, however I'm not really sure what a chemmie is. I've no idea what sublimation is, please excuse my ignorance, I am willing to learn. I'm simply searching for the truth and in that search have found two groups of people, simply defending firmly entrenched positions. Do you have to be a chemmie or a debunker? Doesn't help me much. What hope is there for those of us who retain an open mind, due to conflicting information?
Shouldn't we be working together to establish truth? This is why when I saw the challenge, I thought it would be a wonderful opportunity for two people to discuss this openly. Perhaps someone knowledgeable from this forum would be so bold.
I am aware that the mainstream press has reported that the MOD admitted to secretly spraying us with dangerous chemicals including zinc cadmium sulphide and have conducted aerial germ warfare experiments on us in the past, which included micro-organisms, secretly, without our consent, for period of 40 years, so I don't think the idea of them perhaps continuing this sort of activity, also in secret, is as preposterous as many on this forum do.
Had anyone highlighted that before the MOD disclosed it, would they also have been 'debunked' by this forum?
And I must add, that from my brief time on this forum, I do detect a somewhat hostile environment 'Unless you identify a claim, you can anticipate a dismissal rather than a discussion.'
I'm sorry I'm not making any claims. Will I be dismissed?
I am aware that the mainstream press has reported that the MOD admitted to secretly spraying us with dangerous chemicals including zinc cadmium sulphide and have conducted aerial germ warfare experiments on us in the past, which included micro-organisms, secretly, without our consent, for period of 40 years, so I don't think the idea of them perhaps continuing this sort of activity, also in secret, is as preposterous as many on this forum do.
Had anyone highlighted that before the MOD disclosed it, would they also have been 'debunked' by this forum?
You've been misled then.
I am aware that the mainstream press has reported that the MOD admitted to secretly spraying us
It would have been much easier to conduct those experiments if there'd been nobody around.
In this case the evidence would have been pretty compelling as it was designed to be found.
Cloudspotter, you are so entrenched in your position, that you automatically, without looking at the evidence, presume I must have been misled?
Asked whether such tests are still being carried out, she said: 'It is not our policy to discuss ongoing research.'
?the substances used were thought to be harmless.
As Micks says these were dispersal tests - not tests on people.
In another chapter, 'Large Area Coverage Trials', the MoD describes how between 1961 and 1968 more than a million people along the south coast of England, from Torquay to the New Forest, were exposed to bacteria including e.coli and bacillus globigii , which mimics anthrax.
That's right. They don't want to give any clues as to what they might be up to by making ANY comments about what is or isn't going on. Someone could potentially figure out what they're working on by a process of elimination, better just not to make any comments at all.
Anthrax and zinc cadmium sulphide for example? Can you tell me who thought these to be harmless?
Cadmium, for example is recognised as a cause of lung cancer and, during the Second World War was considered by the Allies as a chemical weapon.
Cloudspotter
Was there a mass evacuation I was unaware of or am I missing something?
I was alive from 1960 and live on the South Dorset coastline!
Not that I'm expecting answers, not had any yet...
No one was sprayed with anthrax in these tests.Cloudspotter, you are so entrenched in your position, that you automatically, without looking at the evidence, presume I must have been misled? I merely quoted
On what evidence you base the fact that
I really surprises me that firstly, you are not aware of this fact and secondly, you presume I've been misled! I thought I was the newbie here...
I didn't say I believed the mainstream media, however, had they been lying about the MOD, I presume the MOD would have challenged them by now, would they not?
It wasn't designed to be found, someone in the MOD came clean! But I have to ask, did you consent to being sparayed with Anthrax?
I really feel some of you are still defending firmly entrenched positions. This is leading to you drawing false conclusions, before seeing the evidence.
What is your agenda here? Is it to debunk something you don't believe, or is it to search for truth?
I am simply seeking truth
Source: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience
Shouldn't we be working together to establish truth?
We can start by establishing a scientific baseline such as understanding basic physical properties of the atmosphere such as relative humidity and such.
However this has no relevance at all to discussing chemtrails.
I am aware that the mainstream press has reported that the MOD admitted to secretly spraying us with dangerous chemicals including zinc cadmium sulphide and have conducted aerial germ warfare experiments on us in the past, which included micro-organisms, secretly, without our consent, for period of 40 years, so I don't think the idea of them perhaps continuing this sort of activity, also in secret, is as preposterous as many on this forum do.
You obviously don't want to start by answering ANY of the questions I've already asked.
You obviously don't want to start by answering ANY of the questions I've already asked.
Cloudspotter, have you bothered to read the article? Sorry, don't want to add another question for you not to answer.As you've noted yourself it was Zinc Cadmium sulphide not Cadmium and bacillus globigii not Anthrax. How can you be seeking the truth when you change the facts?
What was the purpose of the tests?
I didn't make the video
I believe that Truthnow thinks that the relevance flows from this:
In short, if the government conducted secret experiments in the past that affected the public then it is probably doing so again. Therefore chemtrails.
I say, fine, there probably are clandestine programs and aren't for the benefit of Joe Public. But I also say that debunking is a better help at finding those programs than perpetuating a hoax. If "awake" people are chasing around airplane contrails because they have been misled by people like the Chemtrail Promoters then the government has less work to do to hide any secret nefarious activities. There are basic facts about contrail formation that must be understood before one can even begin to look for something abnormal.
Cloudspotter, have you bothered to read the article? Sorry, don't want to add another question for you not to answer.
I don't know what the purpose of the tests were, THAT'S WHY I'M HERE LOOKING FOR ANSWERS!
Biggerdave, they sprayed Anthrax off the Scottish coast. I believe people live in Scotland.
I thought you guys must be the experts as you would know what's going on and would answer my questions.
Instead of answering my questions, you simply want to argue and pick hole in them.
I came here with an open mind, but as I said, you guys scare me...
I will not be posting again unless my questions are answered
Cloudspotter, have you bothered to read the article? Sorry, don't want to add another question for you not to answer.
I don't know what the purpose of the tests were, THAT'S WHY I'M HERE LOOKING FOR ANSWERS!
Biggerdave, they sprayed Anthrax off the Scottish coast. I believe people live in Scotland.
I thought you guys must be the experts as you would know what's going on and would answer my questions.
Instead of answering my questions, you simply want to argue and pick hole in them.
I came here with an open mind, but as I said, you guys scare me...
I will not be posting again unless my questions are answered
No, WE don't need to do that, and would only be forced to guess or pick one out of many. The PROPONENTS of the story should come into agreement on those details, but they never will, due to the fact that little of what they are talking about actually exists.Gentlemen, I think if we are going to discuss something we first need to define what it is we are trying to establish knowledge about.
As most of you already know the word "chemtrails" can mean a number of different things depending on who you ask.
If we are to have a sound discussion, my suggestion is that we:
This is more the way we need to construct things. Otherwise there will only be gishgallop about historical anecdotes and paranoia.
- First, establish what we are talking about. We need to define what "chemtrails" is/are. Or at least define some kind of expectation of what it is. Are we talking deliberate spraying program? Or is it unintentional?
- Who is doing it?
- For what purpose?
- How does these trails achieve their purpose? What is the mechanism/process behind them?
- What proper methods would be useful to detect if they exist as claimed?
- Have such methods been used to establish any sort of confirmation of said phenomena?
No, WE don't need to do that, and would only be forced to guess or pick one out of many. The PROPONENTS of the story should come into agreement on those details, but they never will, due to the fact that little of what they are talking about actually exists.
Well, yes of course. I meant we in a more general sense. But of course the ones doing the claim must agree on the definition of "chemtrails", not the sceptics. My point is just that if open discussion is the purpose everyone needs to know the definition. I'll change the first point in my post.