2008 UFO Footage From Kumburgaz, Turkey

[Z.W. Wolf]

This is my speculation: Yalcin did not use an optical effect, but an old practical effect called Pepper's Ghost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper's_ghost

Most famously used at The Haunted Mansion.

People have noted that these flying saucers don't look like real images but more like reflections... because that's what they are; reflections


He used a small object because he wanted to use a zoom lens and keep it in focus in the sky, and keep the image small, as if it were a distant object he was zooming in on. He can zoom in and out on the virtual image as if it were a large, distant object. This had the side benefit in that he could keep the Moon and the object in focus at the same time.

Here I'll show you what I mean.

The simplest way to do a Pepper's Ghost shot. This would work for a zoom shot, if you were a long way from the surface of the window itself.

This kind of setup could work. But it wouldn't be a TV, but an illuminated object itself and probably closer to the window so that the reflection was in the window itself

This is another setup that would work.

There are many different ways it could be set up.

 

[flarkey]

Hey @Z.W. Wolf & @Mick West ,

I've been thinking about this over the weekend and your theory. I started to think what Yalcin could have used to do this, particularly as a Night Watchman or security guard. In my previous post I mentioned that I thought it could have been reflection off a convex mirror, but now I think that the 'object' could be the top half on an image from a Security Camera Monitor. Lets look at the pictures of the UFO.

They remind me of a wide angle night vision or infra red security camera footage, not dissimilar to this. Note the bending of lines due to the optical effect of the lens.

Also, some night-lights use an infra red illuminator to make the scene brighter. The UFO images have brighter spots like this too,

Could he be filming a security guard's television monitor from a distance? Perhaps the lower part of the image is cut off due to a wall or a window? This is what the image might look on an old monitor

To me, the UFO image looks like a wall or fence with gateposts and a large opening which is being illuminated by something, possibly car headlights? (I've added light source in the pic below for illustrative purposes). Could this be a security camera image from a building near the beach looking out towards the sea? Or is it somewhere completely different?

One thing that I thought could be problem is the absence of flickering. I'd expect any video of a TV to show some element of flicker. I think it is visible in this YouTube Video at 1m10s as the exposure drops.
Source: https://youtu.be/ZHOp5oMkmL0?t=61



What do you think? Is there weight to this or am I seeing things?

 

[Mick West]

What do you think? Is there weight to this or am I seeing things?

I think as I mentioned earlier, there's a danger in taking something that something vaguely resembles, and then moving things around until it fits. With this approach, we've got seemingly good fits for the same photo, with both a cruise ship and a camera lens

 

[Ravi]

I still agree with Z.W. Wolf. I also think the fact the videos of the zooms on the disc show so little image shake, makes me believe the object was not so very far away at all.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

I think as I mentioned earlier, there's a danger in taking something that something vaguely resembles, and then moving things around until it fits. With this approach, we've got seemingly good fits for the same photo, with both a cruise ship and a camera lens

Agreed. ...to a degree. There are lot's of things that have a resemblance. And the photo equipment you've shown is not really a good match.

There are a number of details to look for when you've really taken a good look at these hoax videos.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

There are some consistent elements.

-The objects are arcs. Or flattened arcs.
-These arcs are cut off at the bottom with a straight edge.
-There is always another arc below the UFO object, and this object is always the same object.

In this case there's a wide separation between the arcs

It follows that the two arcs that appear in each photo are separate objects. And while the UFO arcs have some variance in their appearance, the lower arc is always the same - thus the same object each time.

My opinion is that these objects are hoops resting on a cylindrical object - such as a wooden dowel. Always the same dowel. We are looking along the length of the dowel. The straight edge is caused by a flat surfaced object - a tabletop, a plastic box, pasteboard, a clipboard, a TV tray...

The dowel and the hoop hanging on the dowel are situated beyond the flat surface. The image of the dowel and the hoop resting on it are cut off by the far edge, or the top edge, of the flat surface. The flat surface may be anything from completely horizontal to completely vertical. We see only the top part of the hoop and the dowel, so we see them as arcs. The rest is hidden by the flat surface.

There is a single light source above the hoop and the dowel. The lit portion of the dowel surface is the lower arc and the hoop resting on it is the UFO. There is sometimes an area of shadow between them, where the dowel surface is shadowed by the hoop; sometimes there is no shadowed area. That is determined by the shape of the hoop. A hoop with a flat inner surface sits flat on the dowel and casts no shadow. A hoop with a more circular cross section does not sit flat on the dowel and casts a shadow.

In the case of the last photo above, the relative position of hoop and the light source, and perhaps the hoop with the dowel, has made a wider band of shadow between the lighted dowel surface and the hoop than usual.


He used this particular hoop a lot. It's in at least five of his hoax videos on five different dates.

If you're having a hard time picturing these as hoops resting on a cylindrical object, think garden hose.

They are not garden hose.

If you want to picture their proportions, think bicycle tire.

They are not bicycle tires.



They are shiny metallic objects. Some appear to have a silver color, some appear to have a copper or bronze color. Yalcin is not a rich man nor did he have a job that would give him access to expensive or exotic things. Therefore they are probably common objects. They are not likely to be large objects. Most likely a few inches in diameter. They have indentations, lumps, ridges and all manner of surface irregularities, therefore they are not likely to be machine parts or photographic equipment.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

This area here in the red box was interpreted by one Believer as two Aliens in a window of the Flying Saucer, bending toward each other in conversation.

See them?

This is my interpretation. I believe these are curved ball-headed posts welded on a blade.

I cobbled this up out of parts I've found in photos of jewelry.

Not very good, but I just want you to get the idea.


I got this part from a photo of a vintage hinged bangle bracelet.

It's the blade part of a clasp. I think that there is just a single rigid loop welded to the blade. In this case the blade may have just been meant to hold itself against the underside of the other half of the bangle with the help of the spring action of the bangle itself. The loop just gives it a bit more hold, possibly against a post.


To clarify, these are similar parts on other vintage hinged bracelets.

.

This one is definitely a spring. You push down on the projection, the spring compresses, and releases the clasp. I'm going to call it a doubled-over spring for lack of anything better. (If anyone knows what to call this type of spring- or this type of clasp - please tell me.)

A couple more...

I think the spring action here comes from the blade itself pushing up on the interior part of the slot, as the whole half of the bracelet it's attached to is springy; if you get my meaning. You push down and release the tension. Not very strong. After all, it doesn't have to resist much force. It's just a bracelet.

I think this one is a doubled-over spring.


I can only find this type of blade and slot clasp on vintage bracelets.


This is the kind of clasp, with many variations, I've found on new hinged bangle bracelets.

I borrowed a part of this to make the composite above. This ball-headed post shape is common on jewelry new and old.


This is the complete bracelet from the above close-ups. I don't think there's a slot on the other side. You just slide that end over the blade, and there's some spring action from the bangle itself.

I think this UFO is a copper or bronze bangle bracelet.

This is my interpretation of what we're looking at here.

Decorative shapes
Blue - a raised knob
Green - an indentation
White - the middle of three (decorative) ridges

and...
Red - two ball-headed posts
Yellow - a gap between the blade of the clasp and the socket end

The ball-headed posts serve as the projection you push on to slide the blade out of the slot. This particular bangle may not be hinged. It's thin and you may just bend the springy hoop back a bit. No hinge necessary. And the blade is a simple piece, not a spring itself; and relies on the bangle itself to provide the spring tension.

One more. The slot where the ball-headed posts fit when the clasp is closed.

The proportions and decorative shapes remind me of Tuareg bangles.

The bangle bracelet may be sitting on a bracelet display.

Common objects.


Or it may be sitting on a similar dowel.

In any case, I think all of these objects are various bangle bracelets sitting on a wooden dowel; with some other object in front masking most of the bangle and dowel so that they appear to be arcs. There is a single light source (flashlight?) above.

I think it likely that Yalcin just used things that were sitting on his wife's dresser.

 

[flarkey]

Hi @Z.W. Wolf

I see your theory and it certainly is viable. However I'm still sticking with my 'wide angle security camera footage on a tv' theory for a while. Yalcin was a night watchman, a security guard, he would have access to such a tv screen. The best evidence for my theory this this image. To me it looks like a pillar beside a wall that is being illuminated by a torch or an infra-red light. The bending arc is purely down to the wide angle lens.

Three of these images show a gate on a wall, with two people standing in it talking to each other. Edit: in fact, I've just had the idea that perhaps the two 'heads' are boats overturned on the beach. The Perspective is strange in this camera.


I think there are three different images shown over the numerous videos. This is in keeping withthe security camera theory, that woudl periodically change between different local cameras, for example covering all areas around a building.

Others (Gilles Fernandez) have also though that this could be a tv screen - athough no one else seems to have thought it was a security camera feed. https://skepticversustheflyingsauce...D44msfldwXW5AJw-jptqee71uB3AEm_mwFCbzIsx6F0D0

i havent found the exact location that was being filmed, but there are plenty of white walls with gaps in them around Kumburgaz. I'm working on it.

 

[Ravi]

I was looking at the OP again, at the photo collage specifically, and noticed the second image from the left, on the second row from the top. This one shows a remarkably smooth curve. When reviewing the video again, at this specific moment, I noticed it has something on the left, looking like tree branches or something.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFuivergbXA

A little further in the video, this expands until it almost full obscures the illuminated curve.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFuivergbXA

I still have no idea he was filming, but the artefacts seen later in the videos are likely obscurations of the (original?) illuminated curve, so I am not convinced about it being bracelets or tvs or whatnot. I think it something much more easy and obvious.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

CRT security monitors wouldn't be color monitors.

 

[flarkey]

CRT security monitors wouldn't be color monitors.

In general, I tend to agree. It's absolutely a black and white image. Are you referring to the suggested blue halo? If so, that's a fair point. However, i wouldn't rule out the possibility of a colour monitor being used.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Hi @Z.W. Wolf

I see your theory and it certainly is viable. However I'm still sticking with my 'wide angle security camera footage on a tv' theory for a while. Yalcin was a night watchman, a security guard, he would have access to such a tv screen. The best evidence for my theory this this image. To me it looks like a pillar beside a wall that is being illuminated by a torch or an infra-red light. The bending arc is purely down to the wide angle lens.

Are you referring to this one? It's a bangle bracelet sitting on that same old wooden dowel. That's decorative indentation in the bracelet. Much like the markings on these Tuareg bangles.

View attachment 43721


Three of these images show a gate on a wall, with two people standing in it talking to each other. Edit: in fact, I've just had the idea that perhaps the two 'heads' are boats overturned on the beach. The Perspective is strange in this camera.

Which one are you referring to?

I think there are three different images shown over the numerous videos. This is in keeping withthe security camera theory, that woudl periodically change between different local cameras, for example covering all areas around a building.
View attachment 43722

Others (Gilles Fernandez) have also though that this could be a tv screen - athough no one else seems to have thought it was a security camera feed. https://skepticversustheflyingsauce...D44msfldwXW5AJw-jptqee71uB3AEm_mwFCbzIsx6F0D0

You couldn't take videos of a TV monitor with a camcorder without having a rolling black bar or flicker due to the difference in the scanning frequency between the TV and the camera.

View attachment 43724

i havent found the exact location that was being filmed, but there are plenty of white walls with gaps in them around Kumburgaz. I'm working on it.

The locations would necessarily be within the grounds of the Yeni Kent Apartments. There isn't even one part of the Yeni Kent that has walls or driveways that look like you are describing, let alone 4 or 5. There's only one entrance to the complex. And it looks like this.

Wouldn't security cameras be looking at the apartment buildings? As a matter of fact where on the grounds of the Yeni Kent could you not see the buildings in a wide angle camera? We see the entire complex in this photo. One driveway.

And I have never seen any security cams with a fisheye lens.

View attachment 43723

 

[flarkey]

I admit there's a few things to work out.

Regarding the scanning frequencies of the camera v the monitor, yes I'd have expected a Rolling black bar, but then I saw this video. It shows that some monitors ie the lower ones show a rolling bar and a flicker but the top one doesn't. I'm wondering if this has to do with Yalcin's camera being NTSC rather than PAL. (Turkey is a PAL country)


Source: https://youtu.be/Hb7YJdEnhpE

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

In general, I tend to agree. It's absolutely a black and white image. Are you referring to the suggested blue halo? If so, that's a fair point. However, i wouldn't rule out the possibility of a colour monitor being used.

No these are color images. Some of the objects are silver colored and some are bronze or copper colored. Some early ones have a bluish light source. Most have a more yellowish light source. Different flashlights, probably.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

I was looking at the OP again, at the photo collage specifically, and noticed the second image from the left, on the second row from the top. This one shows a remarkably smooth curve. When reviewing the video again, at this specific moment, I noticed it has something on the left, looking like tree branches or something.

This is the same bangle on different days.

It has a flat inner surface, so it's sitting flat on the wooden dowel (Red arrow - you can even see the grain in the wood). This bangle has flat sides and a curved top.
Green arrow - a fine (decorative) groove.
Blue - decorative indentations.

Because of the flat inner surface it's sitting flush on the wooden dowel. And because it also has flat sides, it doesn't cast a shadow on the surface of the dowel.

The same one on a different day.

Green - the same fine groove.
Red - the same wooden dowel.


This frame below is just over exposed because the automatic exposure on the camera was confused. You can see the fine groove more clearly. And the wooden dowel is more visible as well.

View attachment 43726
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFuivergbXA

A little further in the video, this expands until it almost full obscures the illuminated curve.

Same one again, even more over-exposed.

The light source on this day was a little bit farther back, making the top brighter in relation to the side. In this frame you can see the surface of the wooden dowel reflected in the flat side of this silver colored bangle.

Flat inner surface and flat sides, like this one. But the marks on this one are nicks from wear.

 

[Mick West]

You can see the surface of the wooden dowel reflected in the flat side of this silver colored bangle.

Can you? Remember when everyone was convinced it was a cruise ship, and then the inside of a teleconverter. And some people see little green men there.

Beware of forcing your imagination onto the interpretation of an image.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

I understand. But just look one more time, carefully, starting with post #126.

 

[Mick West]

I understand. But just look one more time, carefully, starting with post #126.

I did, and it's certainly a good-looking fit in parts. I'm saying don't go declaring it solved, because it's not. For a start, the "bangle" ufo seems to be rather thick.

I'm a bit bangle challenged, this is all I could come up with

:

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

You're not seeing it in the proper perspective. The camera is not looking at it edge on. The camera is above it.

Orange line - far edge of rounded top
Green line - near edge of rounded top
Purple line - bottom edge where it meets the wooden dowel
Bright arc below purple line - top surface of wooden dowel

I think it would be interesting if everyone would make a sketch of what this one looks like to them. I'm doing mine, right now.

 

[Mick West]

You're not seeing it in the proper perspective. The camera is not looking at it edge on. The camera is above it.

Orange line - far edge of rounded top
Green line - near edge of rounded top
Purple line - bottom edge where it meets the wooden dowel
Bright arc below purple line - top surface of wooden dowel

I'm still not seeing it. Maybe you could mock something up physically?

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Well, here's my sketch of this one.

This is tricky because the camera is somewhat above the bangle and I don't have the skill to draw the perspective. We're looking down on those two posts. I can't draw that.

Orange - knob with bright highlight on surface
Purple - a smooth depression or dip
Green - two ball-headed posts welded onto a blade
Red - the top surface of the wooden dowel
Blue - the middle of three decorative ridges

As for the other one... these two frames are better exposed and clearer.
They're two more examples of the same bangle.

Red line - far side of the rounded top
Green line - near side of the rounded top
Purple line - bottom edge where it meets the wooden dowel
Red arrow - top surface of wooden dowel
White arrow - fine decorative groove

Ditto

 

[flarkey]

Well, if we're doing art-club.....


With this image in mind

And this one also from the Kumburgaz videos.....

I have sketched this as the daytime scene...

Converted it into night....

And used GIMP to add a simple lens distortion.... Not quire the same, but I hope it gets my idea across.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

I think doing an actual sketch will make you look at the details and clarify what it is you're really seeing.

 

[Mick West]

This is a Canon EF mount teleconverter, a flashlight is held a few inches above, exposure is lowered.

Interesting the size of the highlight. What light and surface would result in the highlights seen in the Turkey video?

 

[deirdre]

i see the camera thing mick posted earlier except the angles of his line are wrong... whatever it is is sitting on a wall corner, like this... is what i see. i dont have a man's watch with those little divets on the edges, so mine doesnt look as cool/ and mine is so tiny i cant really get the back half of the circle to disappear and still keep an angle

 

[deirdre]

ps. if that is a clasp we see.. it is wrong for a bangle, but what about a pocket watch?(not that familiar with thier closing mechanisms though).

 

[Mick West]

i dont have a man's watch with those little divets on the edges,

I've got one:

Certainly reminiscent of this.

 

[deirdre]

hhmmm they do have some with clasps like old purses, but i dont know if it would line up right.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

ps. if that is a clasp we see.. it is wrong for a bangle, but what about a pocket watch?(not that familiar with thier closing mechanisms though).

The many different clasps on vintage bangles. As old as Victorian and as new as 1960's.

Spoiler: Click here for lots of photos of bangles

There's no slot on this one. One side slips over the other.

The carrot fits into the rabbit's head.

This one is the closest match I've found so far.

A little photoshopping makes it closer.

This one interesting too, for the shapes and the highlights and shadows.

Another angle.

 

[deirdre]

The carrot fits into the rabbit's head.

no. you just squeeze it so the carrot and rabbit lay on your wrist. like this style

i get your idea but this area is all "metal" too, so a clasp just on the edge bit seems a bit unlikely

 

[deirdre]

i know off topic, but can't resist. saw photo s of this "avrocar" and apparently you need to run like fred flintstone to get it started

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

no. you just squeeze it so the carrot and rabbit lay on your wrist. like this style

I stand corrected

View attachment 43812

That area is not metal. It's a shadow on the surface of the wooden dowel. The metal ends where you see it end. It's just a thin hoop, with the proportions of a bicycle tire.

i get your idea but this area is all "metal" too, so a clasp just on the edge bit seems a bit unlikely
View attachment 43814

Like this.

I'd like everybody to sketch what they think this looks like. Here's my sketch again.

Orange arrow - a knob... with a shiny highlight (because the surface is angled to reflect the light source like a mirror).
Purple - A smooth dip, or valley, or depression
Green - two knob-headed posts welded on a blade
Red - The lit portion of the wooden dowel. The area between is in the shadow of the bangle.
Blue - the middle of three decorative ridges.

I've ordered some tracing paper, so I can make a better sketch.

 

[deirdre]

It's a shadow on the surface of the wooden dowel.

i dont know what you mean by this. a dowel is a rod right? like the rod i hang my clothes on in my closet?
are you saying this whole pink area is a dowel?

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

i dont know what you mean by this. a dowel is a rod right? like the rod i hang my clothes on in my closet?
are you saying this whole pink area is a dowel?
View attachment 43825

No, this is a different bangle. There's no shadow. It's sitting flush on the wooden dowel. The dark stripes are grain in the wood. We're looking along the length of the dowel. There's an object in front of it masking most of it. Only the top of the bangle and the dowel are visible.

I imagine they're sitting on something like this.

You should go back. I already explained this.

... these two frames are better exposed and clearer.
They're two more examples of the same bangle. The side of this bangle is flat and shiny, like a mirror. But there's a fine groove in it half way between the top and bottom edge that follows the circular shape. Your PINK line is drawn over that groove. My Green Arrow is pointing to the groove.

View attachment 43747View attachment 43748
Red line - far edge of the rounded top
Green line - near edge of the rounded top
Purple line - bottom edge where it meets the wooden dowel
Red arrow - top surface of wooden dowel
White arrow - fine decorative groove

Ditto
View attachment 43750
View attachment 43749

I think I'll have to buy a bracelet display and a bangle bracelet to demonstrate.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Here, it's something like this. This is the best example I can find right now. Now imagine it's sitting just like this on a bracelet display. But there's a piece of black foamboard leaning against the end of the dowel so that everything below the top straight edge of the foamboard is hidden. And there's a flashlight above shining down on them.

Red line - far edge of the top
Green line - near edge of the top
Purple line - bottom edge where it meets the dowel (you are imagining)

Looking along the length of the dowel.

 

[Ravi]

Although I do agree with many of mr Wolf's ideas, I just cannot agree with the stretch of the story here. I see no real match with what the Turk filmed. Sorry!

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Would you please make a sketch of this one? I want to know what it is you see. The details.

 

[Ravi]

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

I mean this is something. And it's just one thing, without any argument. And once you see it, it jumps out at you with no ambiguity.

 

[JMartJr]

I suspect trying to see a lot of details in these blurry images is an invitation to pareidolia. Especially when looking at stills rather than the video.
FWIW, I don't see anything inconsistent with the bangles theory, but I can also see the "fence with a gate, and boats or something in the background through the gate." With THAT wide a range of possibilities, I'd suspect the imagery does not contain enough information to lead to a positive ID of what was being videoed.