1. Graham2001

    Graham2001 Active Member

    The quote in the title is attributed to Socrates and it used by Anti-vaxers and other peddlers of disinformation. Snopes.com looked into the origin of the quote and was only able to trace it online to a post on the Goodreads.com website from 2008. I went to that page and there is no information provided on where the poster (Or even who the poster was.) got it from (They could equally have made it up from the whole cloth.), the goodreads page has no means of commenting on the quote other than to 'like it'.

    Here is the link to the Goodreads.com page, which just contains the quote itself.

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/48955-when-the-debate-is-lost-slander-becomes-the-tool-of?page=5

    Here is the link to the snopes.com article.

    I'm wondering if this is a case like the Einstein quote ("It’s become appallingly clear that our technology has surpassed our humanity.") that originated in the 1995 film Powder, something that was created for a film or other pop culture item. Searching this one online is tricky, but I'd love to find a pre-2008 source if one exists.
     
  2. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    might have to try different variations. i'm seeing "when the debate is over, slander becomes the tool of the loser"

    although im seeing nothing for that either prior 2008.

    can socrates even really have quotes? Everything he allegedly said is sort of hearsay. (like Jesus i guess)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates


    And if we're going by Plato... i'd be shocked if he could say anything so succinctly. :) i'm not seeing the word "debate" at all, in his Apology of Socrates
    http://www.sjsu.edu/people/james.lindahl/courses/Phil70A/s3/apology.pdf
     
  3. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    here are some similar paraphrasing of Socrates trial (as told in Plato's 'Apology of Socrates)

    https://chs.harvard.edu/CHS/article/display/1191



    https://digitalcommons.lsu.edu/cgi/...article=1347&context=gradschool_dissertations
     
  4. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    Some Professors weighing in on the quote

    https://www.politifact.com/facebook...e/no-socrates-didnt-call-slander-tool-losers/
     
  5. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

  6. Mendel

    Mendel Member

    The quote does not describe reality anyway.

    Counterexamples from the 2016 US election would be pizzagate and "crooked Hillary": slander used while the debate was ongoing, by the winning side.
     
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