Yankee Blue - The Hazing Ritual Responsible for Some Military Belief in UFOs?

[Mendel]

Which covers some more of his interview with Phillips

referring to this thread: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ti...tence-of-anomalous-black-triangle-ufos.14278/

I'd love to have a transcript of this.

 

[jarlrmai]

referring to this thread: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ti...tence-of-anomalous-black-triangle-ufos.14278/

I'd love to have a transcript of this.

If we could download it it might be possible to get an AI transcript although some of the audio quality is not the best to be fair.

 

[MonkeeSage]

I'd love to have a transcript of this.

Here's the auto-generated transcript from whisper AI in plain text and srt (w/ timestamps). Unedited and unreviewed so there are likely some transcription errors. Also there is no speaker identification, so you need to listen to the audio to check who is speaking.

View attachment greenstreet.txt
View attachment greenstreet.srt.txt

If we could download it it might be possible to get an AI transcript although some of the audio quality is not the best to be fair.

X spaces audio can be downloaded with yt-dlp using cookies from a browser logged in to X. This was the command I used:

yt-dlp --cookies-from-browser firefox https://x.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1932913264905891993

(Note: This requires the ffmpeg program to be installed on linux, I would assume it's also required on other platforms)

 

[Mendel]

Here's the auto-generated transcript from whisper AI in plain text and srt (w/ timestamps). Unedited and unreviewed so there are likely some transcription errors. Also there is no speaker identification, so you need to listen to the audio to check who is speaking.

View attachment greenstreet.txt

Thank you, that was super helpful.
I kinda like where Greenstreet's at, I'm not 100% in the same place, but he knows what we know (and some of what we know is becsuse he found it out), so that's need. He kinda speculates in a slightly different direction, but it's just so refreshing to see someone reporting on this who is aware of the facts.

A lot of what I read has been covered in his video (see link above). Here's what I found interesting:

And I learned that some of the UAP, if not all of the UAP caucus are not SAP CAP cleared. They don't have SAP CAP clearance to certain things.
And SAP means special access program. Cap means controlled access program.

And AARO offered to do a one-time read in, read on for these guys, for the UAP caucus, but their leadership, the Speaker of the House and the committee leadership denied, declined to allow that to happen to these guys. Meaning in essence, they didn't want them, these specific congressional leaders to have that ultra sensitive access for whatever reason. It could just be a trust reason. We don't trust these yahoos. You know, it could be like that kind of thing.

There's a big distinction between the Representatives that do the UFO hearings, and the members of the armed services and intelligence committees who I assume have the clearance to actually read the classified version of the AARO report. And if these guys don't back their UFOlogist party members up, then likely they [the UFO caucus] are barking up the wrong tree.

This is an older legend, and I should really go and check which of that audio is Phillips:

But I'll just say there was a unrelated thing that happened that I think UFO believers, including myself, thought was related to Tic Tac. [..]
Um, so the one bit that I'll say, I won't give you everything, is the story that after Tic Tac at night, uh, a helicopter landed on the Princeton, two men in black came off the helicopter, walked into the captain's room and took data tapes, got back on the helicopter and took off. I interviewed, uh, I interviewed in one of my reports, two Navy officers who saw this happen with their own eyes. And then I think there were some denials, uh, like they didn't actually see that. And I think Fravor was like, that never happened.
And, um, and turns out that actually happened. Turned out that actually happened and it was DARPA and they were dressed all in black. Apparently that's been confirmed completely.
It was DARPA.
They were dressed all in black.
They did land on the Princeton.
They did go into the captain's quarters and they did take stuff.
Um, but the unrelated part is like, it was, it was relating to the, I believe, uh, the wasp they were testing. One of the things they were testing out there, I guess they were testing many things, was the wasp, which does not look like a Tic Tac at all. It's like this little tiny, uh, drone. Uh, and I guess they were testing it in swarms and the Princeton had picked it up as unidentified bogey.
So basically the Princeton on their end picked up these wasps, DARPA wasps, and we're like, what the heck are these? And what's this swarm? There's so many.
Um, well, DARPA came and made sure that didn't get out.

Spoiler: video on the WASP

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXE_CQFsiNw

The Wasp Micro Air Vehicle (MAV) is a small, portable, reliable, and rugged unmanned aerial platform designed for front-line day/night reconnaissance and surveillance. Wasp is the result of a multi-year joint development effort between AV and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA).

 

[jarlrmai]

Thank you, that was super helpful.
I kinda like where Greenstreet's at, I'm not 100% in the same place, but he knows what we know (and some of what we know is becsuse he found it out), so that's need. He kinda speculates in a slightly different direction, but it's just so refreshing to see someone reporting on this who is aware of the facts.

A lot of what I read has been covered in his video (see link above). Here's what I found interesting:

And I learned that some of the UAP, if not all of the UAP caucus are not SAP CAP cleared. They don't have SAP CAP clearance to certain things.
And SAP means special access program. Cap means controlled access program.

And AARO offered to do a one-time read in, read on for these guys, for the UAP caucus, but their leadership, the Speaker of the House and the committee leadership denied, declined to allow that to happen to these guys. Meaning in essence, they didn't want them, these specific congressional leaders to have that ultra sensitive access for whatever reason. It could just be a trust reason. We don't trust these yahoos. You know, it could be like that kind of thing.

There's a big distinction between the Representatives that do the UFO hearings, and the members of the armed services and intelligence committees who I assume have the clearance to actually read the classified version of the AARO report. And if these guys don't back their UFOlogist party members up, then likely they're barking up the wrong tree.

This is an older legend, and I should really go and check which of that audio is Phillips:

But I'll just say there was a unrelated thing that happened that I think UFO believers, including myself, thought was related to Tic Tac. [..]
Um, so the one bit that I'll say, I won't give you everything, is the story that after Tic Tac at night, uh, a helicopter landed on the Princeton, two men in black came off the helicopter, walked into the captain's room and took data tapes, got back on the helicopter and took off. I interviewed, uh, I interviewed in one of my reports, two Navy officers who saw this happen with their own eyes. And then I think there were some denials, uh, like they didn't actually see that. And I think Fravor was like, that never happened.
And, um, and turns out that actually happened. Turned out that actually happened and it was DARPA and they were dressed all in black. Apparently that's been confirmed completely.
It was DARPA.
They were dressed all in black.
They did land on the Princeton.
They did go into the captain's quarters and they did take stuff.
Um, but the unrelated part is like, it was, it was relating to the, I believe, uh, the wasp they were testing. One of the things they were testing out there, I guess they were testing many things, was the wasp, which does not look like a Tic Tac at all. It's like this little tiny, uh, drone. Uh, and I guess they were testing it in swarms and the Princeton had picked it up as unidentified bogey.
So basically the Princeton on their end picked up these wasps, DARPA wasps, and we're like, what the heck are these? And what's this swarm? There's so many.
Um, well, DARPA came and made sure that didn't get out.

The audio is not from the interview it is Steven Greenstreets thoughts on his interview.

 

[MonkeeSage]

Steven Greensteet posted some comments about this hazing ritual from Sean Kirkpatrick on X.

GREENSTREET: The WSJ story reveals the US military created "fake" UFO images and put them out into the public outside Area 51.

Was this just an isolated incident or a microcosm of a larger operation? Did you find other examples of "fake" UFO stuff being put into the public? Is it still happening?

KIRKPATRICK: This was not isolated, nor was it a centralized "larger operation." There were multiple instances and some just let the rumors go as it was easier than developing a story. "Shouldn't" be happening still, but one can never be 100% sure.

GREENSTREET: The WSJ also revealed a "fake" alien SAP within the US Air Force.

The Air Force appears to claim this was "hazing" or a "prank". But was it really ? Was this perhaps a non-prank counterintel strategy?

Again, is this an isolated incident? Or were there other examples of "fake" alien/UFO programs throughout the departments?There appears to have been some kind of cover up here - with USAF requesting AARO not include this "embarrassing" information in their report. Do you agree?

KIRKPATRICK: No, this was not a counterintel strategy. This was a ritualistic event for new SAPCO officers. Not isolated. Several similar activities. Investigations are ongoing.

(did not answer my question about AARO's role in a potential Air Force cover up)

Source: x.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1933194954018619592

 

[John J.]

To some extent this might belong in the Tic Tac thread, but it's following on from post #83, post #84 and post #85 (by @MonkeeSage, @Mendel and @jarlrmai respectively):

And I think Fravor was like, that never happened....
...And, um, and turns out that actually happened. Turned out that actually happened and it was DARPA and they were dressed all in black. Apparently that's been confirmed completely.

Is there any way for us to assess which account (Fravor or Greenstreet's) is more accurate?

Is it likely that recently-gathered radar information, recorded on whatever medium, would be stored in the (USS Princeton) Captain's accommodation? The Princeton would have purpose-built facilities for cataloguing and storing such data.
I guess the Captain might have had the relevant media in his care to allow a courteous and rapid handover.
But you'd expect him to be present for this (I feel Greenstreet's description implies this was not the case).

If something like Greenstreet's DARPA retrieval happened, how did his "two navy officers" know the visitors were from DARPA- did they introduce themselves, just in case they were confused with any other non-USN helicopter arrivals, or just to be friendly?
What were the two officers doing, or supposed to be doing, when they supposedly saw the DARPA employees enter the Captain's accommodation? How do they know what was taken, if anything? Can they describe its visual appearance to Greenstreet?

The officers and men of USS Princeton routinely work with classified information. It is a disciplined and physically secure environment. All the crew are uniformed service personnel, subject to military law.
Many systems or subsystems on Princeton will be secret. If ordered to specially secure, and not to review, certain radar recordings (or whatever) there is no reason to doubt that that order would be complied with.

Most DARPA employees are not service personnel, nor are they Federal Investigators. DARPA is not a law enforcement or counter-espionage agency. It does not have "field agents" or an organic police/ security branch AFAIK.
It does not undertake activities to physically secure assets/ data held elsewhere. That isn't its role.
DARPA's website lists career/ attachment opportunities for service personnel, https://www.darpa.mil/careers/how-military-can-serve, "Opportunities for military professionals". No MIB-style roles are currently advertised.

DARPA comprises approximately 220 government employees in six technical offices, including nearly 100 program managers, who together oversee about 250 research and development programs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA

Greenstreet:

One of the things they were testing out there, I guess they were testing many things, was the wasp, which does not look like a Tic Tac at all. It's like this little tiny, uh, drone. Uh, and I guess they were testing it in swarms and the Princeton had picked it up as unidentified bogey.
So basically the Princeton on their end picked up these wasps, DARPA wasps, and we're like, what the heck are these? And what's this swarm? There's so many.

(1) Greenstreet doesn't supply evidence of anything unusual being tested.
(2) The AeroVironment Wasp

...is the result of a multi-year joint development effort between AeroVironment and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) to create a small, portable, reliable, and rugged unmanned aerial platform designed for front-line day or night reconnaissance and surveillance.

Wikipedia, Wasp III https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AeroVironment_Wasp_III, see also a USAF factsheet dated 14 September 2011,
https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104480/wasp-iii/

Wasp is a small, lightweight and relatively cheap recce platform with a 5km (3.1 mile) operating radius.
With limited growth potential- USMC Wasp IIIs are being replaced- it seems an unlikely contender for testing swarming concepts. It is not a weapons platform, and a Wasp's ability to carry a practical munition is questionable;
the WASP III aircraft weighs 453g (USAF), this is in the same weight range as a single hand grenade (many types 400-500g).

Note Wasp's limited range (c. 3 miles): Even if Wasp RPVs, a variant or similar RPVs were being used in swarming tests at sea, it is hard to understand how USS Princeton failed to see the ship from which they were launched and operated.

I suspect Fravor's right, and none of what Greenstreet describes really happened.
Greenstreet relies on/ reports claims made by two unidentified witnesses. Possible weaknesses in the claimed version of events are not examined, because this might undermine the "something interesting happened" narrative. Lots of people like stories involving secretive or high-tech government organisations identified by acronyms/ abbreviations.
He combines this with what appears to be supposition re. Wasp RPVs, although the aircraft themselves are not particularly high-tech and are of modest performance (although a very useful capability). Of course, the word "wasp" might evoke ideas of swarms, but the real world AeroVironment Wasp and its control systems were not designed to provide a swarm capability.

 

[Mick West]

Rep. Eric Burlison, part of the "UAP Caucus," is looking into the hazing claims. He says Grusch has never heard of "Yankee Blue"

Article:

"When I talked to [UFO whistleblower David] Grusch, he said, 'that's ridiculous,'" Burlison tells us. "He would have heard of that. He's never heard of that."

Source: https://www.askapoluaps.com/p/how-is-wsj-report-not-illegal?utm_source=substack&publication_id=1755497&post_id=165824340

The link is partially paywalled, but the full audio is embedded.

 

[beku-mant]

There are a few issues that stand out to me. Phillips admits some anomalous technology seems to exist, which isn't ours, and which he thinks we can't replicate. He thinks it is adversarial. But I would bet that the US is in the lead on any such frontier, or would have caught up by now, since this is a decades old phenomenon we are talking about. This implies, to me, if the claims of actual anomalous technology are real, likely AARO was not let in on its origins, or is not letting us in on it (i.e. Phillips was kept in the dark or Phillips was lying to us).

In either case, how can we believe the claim about a giant hazing ritual without evidence. It sounds like a perfect cover story to dismiss or keep AARO out of real programs if they did exist. And the fact anomalous technology seems to exists makes you expect real programs working on such technology exist.

 

[John J.]

Article: "When I talked to [UFO whistleblower David] Grusch, he said, 'that's ridiculous,'" Burlison tells us. "He would have heard of that. He's never heard of that."

Is David Grusch claiming to have knowledge of all hazing/ practical jokes within the USAF over several decades?
Or to have knowledge of every time UFOs/ UAP are mentioned by USAF personnel?

Either (implied) claim would seem to subvert Mr. Grusch's credibility.

 

[John J.]

Phillips admits some anomalous technology seems to exist which isn't ours, and which he thinks we can't replicate.

Where?

And the fact anomalous technology seems to exists...

What is the basis for that?
What do you mean by "anomalous"?

 

[beku-mant]

Where?

What is the basis for that?
What do you mean by "anomalous"?

He claimed (speaking about black triangle UFOs) there is technology with performance we can't replicate, in his interview with Greenstreet. While he was vague about the anomalous performance, he described it as "that we can't replicate today", and that it doesn't give off the sound or heat you would expect, and he sounded like he started to say trans-medium, but stopped himself at trans. Of course he could just be mistaken, rather than lying or kept in the dark. But still there are apparent contradictions in what we hear from AARO IMO. It's hard to believe anything without transparency, and until then we're left with opinions.

 

[John J.]

He claimed (speaking about black triangle UFOs) there is technology with performance with we can't replicate, in his interview with Greenstreet.

Ah, thank you for the rapid response- by chance I've just noticed the Tim Phillips lends credence to the existence of anomalous black triangle UFOs which you started!

 

[NorCal Dave]

Phillips admits some anomalous technology seems to exist, which isn't ours, and which he thinks we can't replicate. He thinks it is adversarial.

So he says. As discussed in the thread about his claims, he use big sweeping statements that can be taken in variously ways. His claim that these are adversarial is answered more or less by you:

But I would bet that the US is in the lead on any such frontier,

Agreed. As I asked in the other thread, what advisory has ever shown the existence of the necessary prerequisites to develop this supposed technology? Not Iran or North Korea. Russia had a space program that relied heavily on tweaking '60s & '70s technology. There most advanced aircraft, the Su57 was and is heavily reliant on western tech. China, maybe, but only in the last 10-20 years. This supposed anomalous technology would take a fair amount of time to ramp up to.

This implies, to me, if the claims of actual anomalous technology are real, likely AARO was not let in on its origins, or is not letting us in on it (i.e. Phillips was kept in the dark or Phillips was lying to us).

That's speculation based on assuming anomalous technology does in fact exist. Something for which there is still no evidence. Phillips may be like a number of people in this field that saw and or heard about things, possibly out of context, and may have assumed these things do more than they really do.

IF there are plausible things like the supposed Aroura, a super secret follow up to the SR71 that pushes existing technology to the frontier, even if AARO knows about it, it would likely remain secret. And I don't mean a physics defying craft, just a very technologically advanced one based on our current technology.

In either case, how can we believe the claim about a giant hazing ritual without evidence.

Agreed. Right now it's just another possible story. I would argue though that hazing rituals are a known thing. Closed institutions like the military engage in things like hazing. We know that cadets at the Air Force academy engaged in hazing:

An investigation found roughly 30 players on the Air Force Academy's lacrosse team were involved in hazing of freshmen cadets to varying degrees, the academy said in an email Wednesday.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/...for-hazing-now-some-of-them-may-not-graduate/

So, we have actual evidence for hazing by Air Force people, we don't have evidence for anomalous aircraft.

 

[Mendel]

Is there any way for us to assess which account (Fravor or Greenstreet's) is more accurate?

Yes. Wait for evidence to emerge (e.g. vol.2 of the AARO report).
We can assume Fravor wasn't on the bridge of the Princeton and didn't witness this.

Is it likely that recently-gathered radar information, recorded on whatever medium, would be stored in the (USS Princeton) Captain's accommodation?

Greenstreet uses the words "Captain's room", which could well refer to the captain's workplace.

What were the two officers doing, or supposed to be doing, when they supposedly saw the DARPA employees enter the Captain's accommodation?

Working.

(1) Greenstreet doesn't supply evidence of anything unusual being tested.
(2) The AeroVironment Wasp

That's the evidence. The WASP III was a DARPA project.
We don't know whether DARPA trialled the WASP IV at some point, because that trial would've been classified.

it is hard to understand how USS Princeton failed to see the ship from which they were launched and operated.

Nobody claims that the Princeton failed to see it. Greenstreet says that this had nothing to do with the Tic-Tac thing, it merely happened afterwards, establishing a false causality for the UFOlogists.
Wasn't the Princeton operating near one of the islands where they test drones? And you saw the video I posted, the USMC or the Navy Seals might well launch these from small rubber boats (in fact, that would be the only way to retrieve these).

 

[John J.]

the USMC or the Navy Seals might well launch these from small rubber boats (in fact, that would be the only way to retrieve these)

Which might be another reason not to use Wasp in a drone swarm trial (in addition to its extremely limited payload).

 

[TDM]

The hazing ritual probably contains themes and ideas that were already a part of UFO mythology when it started.

That's a certainty. The ur-myth in UFOlogy is about recovering alien spacecraft and/or bodies in Roswell, right? And the article claims they're being shown a flying saucer. The idea of a long running, above-top-secret coverup is an inevitable feature in all UFOlogy because of the obvious discrepancy between UFO mythology and reality. If the UFOs were visting routinely and there was no coverup, it would all be common knowledge, so there has to be a coverup by definition.

Project Blue Book was a study into UFO sightings. Have Blue was the F117 prototype code name. Whether by design or accident, "Yankee Blue" has that just so quality where it sounds like it could be a real top secret code name for something.

Whether they also included any details beyond just "photo of fuzzy flying saucer" as part of the hazing (possibly what you are alluding to), I have no idea. The practice probably wasn't standardised, since it isn't official. So yeah it's plausible that some people got to see tic tacs, others got to see triangles, or what have you, at the discresion of whoever printed out the photo for the new batch of recruits in a given year.

 

[Kelvin]

Project Blue Book was a study into UFO sightings. Have Blue was the F117 prototype code name. Whether by design or accident, "Yankee Blue" has that just so quality where it sounds like it could be a real top secret code name for something.

The use of Yankee White for Presidential support activities is fairly well known. I suspect the hoaxer constructed the name Yankee Blue to imply something like "Presidential UFO program."

DoDI 5210.87 (November 30, 1998)

The administrative nickname "YANKEE WHITE" must be stamped or printed in the Remarks section of the DD Form 1879, "Request for Personnel Security Investigation," for all Presidential support requests that are manually submitted. For those electronic submissions of the DD Form 1879, "YANKEE WHITE" will be typed in item 1 and the form will then be stamped by the Defense Security Service (DSS) upon completion of the investigation.

 

[flarkey]

Sean Kirkpatrick recently presented an account of his time at AARO and discusses Yankee Blue....


Source: https://youtu.be/bi0H_mkwTW0?t=4515

The reaction of the Secretary of the Air Force when he told him that they'd found the Alien Program and it was just a hazing ritual is rather funny....

I can only express the excitement that the Secretary of the Air Force shared with me when I briefed him on this. I went in to brief him on all the research we had done—everything we had found and everything we had been working on. There were about eight people in the room. At the end of the briefing, I said, "Sir, I need to speak with you alone for a moment." He said, "Okay," and dismissed everyone else. I pulled out a quad chart and slid it over to him. I said, "Sir, this is the alien program."
He looked at me and said, "What? What do you mean, Sean?"I told him the story. I explained that we had officers come forward and share this information—what they were doing, how this wasn't the only instance, and that there were several similar cases circulating. They may have been doing this for upwards of 30 years.I asked him, "What do you want to do about this?" Since this is for public consumption, I won't repeat his exact words, but his reaction was essentially: "Are you effing kidding me?"

 

[Mendel]

Sean Kirkpatrick recently presented an account of his time at AARO and discusses Yankee Blue....

All right. Security officer Hazing.
One of my favorite blast things I found
uh Yankee Blue um

I'm sure many of you are familiar with the SAPCO organizational structure, but in case you're not, quick rundown. OUSDI [?] has a SAPCO office that oversees all Department of Defense special access programs. Each service has a SAPCO office that owns theirs, right? (The IC has a CAPCO office because we have to be different.)

Uh but basically the Air Force um had an officer— actually several officers—come forward and say, "Hey, um I was a SAPCO officer and as a young SAPCO officer, um the Air Force had this tradition. So you're a brand new SAPCO officer,I'm the head I'm the director of the SAPCO. You come into the Air Force and you go, I'm ready for my portfolio and I'm going to sit down with you—or one of my staff is—and we're going to flip through the the deadly quad chart book of quad charts, right? Heavy quad charts, another program. Here's your program. Here's your portfolio. This is what you need to know. I'm going to pull out an NDA. I'm going to give it to you. You're going to sign it. You're going to say, uh, this is what you're responsible for. Okay. And then you go off on your way.

And then the next day, um or maybe later that afternoon, one of the staff will call you back. Hey, we forgot to tell you something. Bring you in and they slip the last quad chart across the table to you and they go, they flip it over and they go, "Hey, this is uh this is uh the alien program. Um, now we're not allowed to tell you anything more than what's on this quad chart. All you need to know is it exists. You don't have ownership of it. You don't have oversight of it. This is just it, right? And then they take it back. They give you another NDA that signs Yankee Blue. Take it back. Send you on your way. And then they sit around in the office and they make bets on how long it's going to take you to figure out that's not real, or if you do. And several of them don't, and they go away thinking they've signed for an actual program.

So, [..] it's a tradition that is based in "I want to mess with my new cadets".

So, I can only express the excitement that the Secretary of the Air Force shared with me when I briefed him on this. [....] [see @flarkey's post]

All right. So, uh, that one, uh, went on and they went to investigate. Uh, and just to give you, uh, kind of the scope of what we're talking about here. Uh, that was not only in the Pentagon. Yankee Blue came from Central Command. There were many of these all around. They they've been propagated all around.

 

[Montauk]

Sean Kirkpatrick recently presented an account of his time at AARO and discusses Yankee Blue....


Source: https://youtu.be/bi0H_mkwTW0

I definitely wanna watch this. One cursory look at the comment section doubled it. Lotta cognitive dissonance.

"not" a believer *wink*

The only embarrassment I feel is from reading your comment. lol.

wow…that's a new one. Oh he's got another one up his sleeve

Oh my….

 

[flarkey]

I have watched the full presentation and found it to be very good. SK speaks well and although he may be a little 'dry' his calm, factual and honest recollection of his time at AARO is fascinating. And fact that the Disclosure - fans don't seem to like it makes it even better.

 

[Montauk]

I have watched the full presentation and found it to be very good. SK speaks well and although he may be a little 'dry' his calm, factual and honest recollection of his time at AARO is fascinating. And fact that the Disclosure - fans don't seem to like it makes it even better.

Oh but don't you know he's "lying again" and this isn't the "first time he's been caught". Also he's a "smoking steam of bs". /s

 

[Montauk]

A user expressed his appreciation for Kirkpatrick's work (here here) and this guy wasn't too happy about it

Ahh yes "0 evidence". Sure buddy.

 

[Montauk]

So what is our consensus on the whole thing, 1. was there actually a hazing ritual, and 2. what pieces of evidence are there for it. UAP believers claim "there is none" which I disagree with. My brother is curious about it and after reading through the whole thread I'm still not sure I understand it fully.

 

[Kelvin]

A user expressed his appreciation for Kirkpatrick's work (here here) and this guy wasn't too happy about it View attachment 90032
Ahh yes "0 evidence". Sure buddy.

I would like to see any artifacts that might have been created for the fake program, such as the quad chart he mentioned. I think it would be funny. And it might get some of the "witnesses" to go public and confirm those are the documents they saw.

 

[RobertBillyBob]

Kirkaptrick via Douglas Dean Johnson :

What I saw from Yankee Blue showed a real photograph on what looked to be a saucer shape with someone in a lab coat standing over it. Since it was a real photograph, people would accept it for what they see in it. If you look at it and are told that's an alien craft, you'd probably believe it at first review. The mind sees what it wants to believe. It's not until you learn that it is a photograph of the heat shield of the lunar lander upside down that your mind sees the truth.

source :

Source: https://x.com/ddeanjohnson/status/2118091516048818266


I couldn't find good Apollo's heat shield pictures but I found some for Orion's. I totally see how you could think this kind of picture shows a classic flying saucer craft

 

[purpleivan]

Here's a photo of the installation of the Apollo heat shied at Avco/Avcarb.

https://www.avcarb.com/about-avcarb/

 

[MonkeeSage]

I totally see how you could think this kind of picture shows a classic flying saucer craft

If it were a used heat shield (perhaps from one of the test modules) the charred / damaged appearance might contribute to the perception of being crash-landed as well.

Apollo Test Capsule CM-011
"CM-011 heat shield after it was removed so it could be tested in the lab"

Source: https://uss-hornet.org/exhibits/apollo-test-capsule-cm-011/

"Apollo 7 Command Module (CM 101) at Dallas' Frontiers of Flight Museum"

Source: https://waltercunningham.com/cm101returns.htm

 

[Mendel]

 

[Hwy666]

So what is our consensus on the whole thing, 1. was there actually a hazing ritual, and 2. what pieces of evidence are there for it. UAP believers claim "there is none" which I disagree with. My brother is curious about it and after reading through the whole thread I'm still not sure I understand it fully.

The consensus appears to be to ignore the glaring lack of evidence for Yankee Blue and instead post pics of NASA spacecraft.

It was an odd move by Kirpatrick to tell that story to the WSJ. He was under no pressure to provide any explanation for the claims made by "whistleblowers" in the intelligence community.

But now there's a burden of proof hanging out there and no one has picked up the ball. Seems like a smoking gun to me.

 

[Mendel]

The consensus appears to be to ignore the glaring lack of evidence for Yankee Blue and instead post pics of NASA spacecraft.

It was an odd move by Kirpatrick to tell that story to the WSJ. He was under no pressure to provide any explanation for the claims made by "whistleblowers" in the intelligence community.

But now there's a burden of proof hanging out there and no one has picked up the ball. Seems like a smoking gun to me.

The DoD confirmed it.
That's better than anything the disclosure movement has.

I'm disappointed we haven't seen a volume 2 to the AARO historical report yet.

 

[MapperGuy]

The consensus appears to be to ignore the glaring lack of evidence for Yankee Blue and instead post pics of NASA spacecraft.

It was an odd move by Kirpatrick to tell that story to the WSJ. He was under no pressure to provide any explanation for the claims made by "whistleblowers" in the intelligence community.

But now there's a burden of proof hanging out there and no one has picked up the ball. Seems like a smoking gun to me.

The terminology being used for all this doesn't help to understand it.
I would not call it "hazing" I would call it an 'initiation ritual'. Like fraternities making initiates do stupid/dangerous things. Why? Because the current members had to do those things when they were initiated. So it becomes a tradition, and continues for no other reason than "its tradition".
Calling it a hazing "program" makes it sound like an official thing, when its just current members of the club doing to the new guys what was done to them when they were new.

The only real way to confirm this to the doubters would be for numerous 'victims' to come forward and confess all. Which might be embarassing for many of them to admit. Especially if they then participated in doing it to the next new guys.
I would not expect to find any documentation of this, even the UFO pictures show to the victims might not have been the same. Easy enough to fake up a new batch from time to time. If the old ones are consigned to the burn bag after use.

 

[Hwy666]

The DoD confirmed it.
That's better than anything the disclosure movement has.

I'm disappointed we haven't seen a volume 2 to the AARO historical report yet.

The DoD banned hazing and all other forms of harassment in 2018. The UAPTF wasn't formed until 2020.

https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/issuances/dodi/102003p.PDF?vext

I did find this, which I find ridiculous:

"One such incident, first uncovered by the Wall Street Journal, involves an Air Force colonel who, in the 1980s, handed fake photos of flying saucers to a bar owner near the top-secret Area 51 base in Nevada. The colonel, now retired, later admitted to investigators that he was acting under official orders to deflect attention away from the then-classified F-117 Nighthawk stealth fighter."
https://www.ktvu.com/news/ufo-disinfo-cold-war-stealth-coverup

Seriously? That's like loading a fire extinguisher with napalm.

 

[MonkeeSage]

The DoD banned hazing and all other forms of harassment in 2018.

The allegation is that the activity was against regulations, and was still under investigation at the time of the first AARO historical report.

Investigators are still trying to determine why officers had misled subordinates, whether as some type of loyalty test, a more deliberate attempt to deceive or something else.

After that 2023 discovery, Kirkpatrick's deputy briefed President Joe Biden's director of national intelligence, Avril Haines, who was stunned.
Could this be the basis for the persistent belief that the U.S. has an alien program that we've concealed from the American people? Haines wanted to know, according to people familiar with the matter. How extensive was it? she asked.

The official responded: "Ma'am, we know it went on for decades. We are talking about hundreds and hundreds of people. These men signed NDAs. They thought it was real."

The finding could have been devastating to the Air Force. The service was particularly sensitive to the allegations of hazing and asked that AARO hold off on including the finding in the public report, even after Kirkpatrick had briefed lawmakers on the episode. Kirkpatrick retired before that report was finished and released.

In a statement, a Defense Department spokeswoman acknowledged that AARO had uncovered evidence of fake classified program materials relating to extraterrestrials, and had briefed lawmakers and intelligence officials. The spokeswoman, Sue Gough, said the department didn't include that information in its report last year because the investigation wasn't completed, but expects to provide it in another report scheduled for later this year.

"The department is committed to releasing a second volume of its Historical Record Report, to include AARO's findings on reports of potential pranks and inauthentic materials," Gough said.

Source: https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/ufo-us-disinformation-45376f7e

 

[Fritzkquzerk]

The allegation is that the activity was against regulations, and was still under investigation at the time of the first AARO historical report.

Investigators are still trying to determine why officers had misled subordinates, whether as some type of loyalty test, a more deliberate attempt to deceive or something else.

After that 2023 discovery, Kirkpatrick's deputy briefed President Joe Biden's director of national intelligence, Avril Haines, who was stunned.
Could this be the basis for the persistent belief that the U.S. has an alien program that we've concealed from the American people? Haines wanted to know, according to people familiar with the matter. How extensive was it? she asked.

The official responded: "Ma'am, we know it went on for decades. We are talking about hundreds and hundreds of people. These men signed NDAs. They thought it was real."

The finding could have been devastating to the Air Force. The service was particularly sensitive to the allegations of hazing and asked that AARO hold off on including the finding in the public report, even after Kirkpatrick had briefed lawmakers on the episode. Kirkpatrick retired before that report was finished and released.

In a statement, a Defense Department spokeswoman acknowledged that AARO had uncovered evidence of fake classified program materials relating to extraterrestrials, and had briefed lawmakers and intelligence officials. The spokeswoman, Sue Gough, said the department didn't include that information in its report last year because the investigation wasn't completed, but expects to provide it in another report scheduled for later this year.

"The department is committed to releasing a second volume of its Historical Record Report, to include AARO's findings on reports of potential pranks and inauthentic materials," Gough said.

Source: https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/ufo-us-disinformation-45376f7e

Hundreds of them in decades? But just 3/4 people talked?

 

[jon_eir]

I may have missed something from your post with not understanding your final comment.

Seriously? That's like loading a fire extinguisher with napalm.

I would caution quoting from articles like this. It may not be circular reporting in the strictness sense, more akin to dependent reporting. The article its self list a The Wall Street Journal article which used itself listed other sources.

The Source: This report is based on information first published by The Wall Street Journal, which reviewed findings from a 2024 Department of Defense analysis led by the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO). Additional details were obtained through official Pentagon statements and interviews conducted by WSJ with AARO staff and other defense officials involved in the review.

I find this the following statement particularly concerning.

He told the Wall Street Journal that many popular conspiracy theories can be traced to actual efforts by the U.S. military to conceal vulnerabilities or capabilities during tense periods of geopolitical rivalry.

Source: www.ktvu.com/news/ufo-disinfo-cold-war-stealth-coverup

This is paraphrasing of Sean Kirkpatrick and I've found a significant problem with the KTVU article's attribution, where is the source for this paraphrase? why is it a paraphrasing and not a direct quote.

The WSJ article is likely here, although no specific source is given for that statement,

The Pentagon itself sometimes deliberately fanned the flames, in what amounted to the U.S. government targeting its own citizens with disinformation.

Source: www.tovima.com/wsj/the-pentagon-disinformation-that-fueled-americas-ufo-mythology/?.com

referencing to a 1997, CIA historian Gerald K. Haines published CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947–90, in the CIA's journal Studies in Intelligence.
It describes the following sequence:

From 1955 onwards, the CIA's highly classified U-2 aircraft flew at altitudes far above ordinary commercial air traffic.

Agency by August 1955 was testing a high-altitude experimental aircraft--the U-2. It could fly at 60,000 feet; in the mid-1950s, most commercial airliners flew between 10,000 feet and 20,000 feet.

Pilots and observers reported unusual objects, particularly when sunlight illuminated the aircraft at dawn or dusk.

Consequently, once the U-2 started test flights, commercial pilots and air traffic controllers began reporting a large increase in UFO sightings.

The early U-2s were silver (they were later painted black) and reflected the rays from the sun, especially at sunrise and sunset. They often appeared as fiery objects to observers below.

Air Force Project Blue Book investigators could sometimes identify the objects as U-2 aircraft through classified channels.

By checking with the Agency's U-2 Project Staff in Washington, BLUE BOOK investigators were able to attribute many UFO sightings to U-2 flights.

Rather than reveal the secret aircraft, investigators sometimes supplied alternative explanations involving atmospheric effects.

Air Force BLUE BOOK investigators aware of the secret U-2 flights tried to explain away such sightings by linking them to natural phenomena such as ice crystals and temperature inversions.

They were careful, however, not to reveal the true cause of the sighting to the public.

Haines articles acknowledged that the Air Force had made misleading public statements to protect classified reconnaissance programs not that they planted fake ufos images as part of an official coverup program/disinfo campaign.

This led the Air Force to make misleading and deceptive statements to the public in order to allay public fears and to protect an extraordinarily sensitive national security project.

"One such incident, first uncovered by the Wall Street Journal, involves an Air Force colonel who, in the 1980s, handed fake photos of flying saucers to a bar owner near the top-secret Area 51 base in Nevada. The colonel, now retired, later admitted to investigators that he was acting under official orders to deflect attention away from the then-classified F-117 Nighthawk stealth fighter."
https://www.ktvu.com/news/ufo-disinfo-cold-war-stealth-coverup

The problem with this statement is that it assumes this disinformation operation actually happened. If the Wall Street Journal's account relies solely on a reported confession from an unnamed retired colonel- no original photographs, military orders, interview transcripts, or independent corroborating evidence have been publicly presented. In particular the "later admitted to investigators that he was acting under official orders" line from above. Until that evidence is available, the claim remains an unverified allegation, not an established historical fact. You're criticising the logic of an operation whose existence hasn't yet been independently demonstrated. Unless I stated in my opening I have your point

 

[John J.]

Hundreds of them in decades? But just 3/4 people talked?

I'd guess many "targets" realised it was a prank and went along with it, like new employees sent to ask for a long weight (wait), a can of striped paint or a bubble for a spirit level. Let their seniors have a bit of a chuckle on day 1, and then moved on without really bothering about it.

If so, Yankee Blue or similar pranks might only have "been an issue" for a tiny minority of particularly impressionable or gullible people.

 

[Fritzkquzerk]

I'd guess many "targets" realised it was a prank and went along with it, like new employees sent to ask for a long weight (wait), a can of striped paint or a bubble for a spirit level. Let their seniors have a bit of a chuckle on day 1, and then moved on without really bothering about it.

If so, Yankee Blue or similar pranks might only have "been an issue" for a tiny minority of particularly impressionable or gullible people.

Makes sense.
I am very surprised of the idea of people seeing photos of circular metallic (and clearly man made, almost crude) objects and thinking USA is hiding alien spaceships in military bases.
Well, not particularly if I think of most conspiracy buffs, but officials? What level of gullible you need to be to even go to Congress to talk about this just by looking at pictures?
If this is the case someone must be having a good laugh in some office.

 

[NorCal Dave]

He was under no pressure to provide any explanation for the claims made by "whistleblowers" in the intelligence community.

Like who? Grusch made a number of claims, many of which have become increasingly fantastic, like US personal fighting with reptilians (link to JRE below):

2:08:53
So, I mean it just posed a threat and uh you know uh US personnel started you know getting hurt and dying and so, so US personnel was killed by these reptilians.

Grusch worked with the UAPTF, so he could have verified all his claims himself, rather then waiting for the latter AARO to do it. When Grusch and people like Eric Davis, who did testify to AARO, share "whistleblower claims", such as a crashed UFO in Italy that was recovered by US troops, we can trace the story and see it is nonsense (link below). In addition, Grusch has never appeared before AARO to give details, nor has he ever shared anything of consequence with he various Congressional people in the UFO caucus. Should Kirckpatrick and ARRO being "under pressure" to explain what Grusch talks about on the JRE?

When so called "whistleblowers" like, Davis, along with Hal Puthoff and Lue Elizondo went to ARRO at the behest of Chris Mellon, there stories were looked into (link below) :

Davis has repeatedly claimed he is one of Grusch's primary sources. Both he and Grusch tell the same Italian UFO story and they both talk about the Nordics and the Reptilians. It seems likely that Davis repeated these stories to AARO. We have at least 1 example of these guys telling a story that didn't pan out as they told it. Puthoff and Daivs have told the story of "The General", later revealed to be Jack Sheehan, touching a "craft", with the implication that it was alien. Here is how Micheal Shellegburger presented the tale in a congressional briefing document:

Bernard Haisch of Lockheed Martin states Hal Puthoff tried the "front door" approach to get into the secret UFO black program he believed existed. Puthoff wrote to a Pete Aldridge and Under Secretary Jacques Ganser but did not get a reply. Haisch believed the program was split into four parts and about 200 people were on the bigot lists. An unnamed individual "The General" was believed to still have access and was retired and working for an oil company when he met Puthoff at the suggestion of John Petersen.

That general is later revealed in a 18 September 2003 entry to be Jack Sheehan, now working for Bechtel in oil exploration. Sheehan states he saw and touched a "craft" but would not reveal more. Sheehan states he uncovered the UFO black project by discovering a $9B discrepancy.

Shellenburger in turn was getting this from Vallee's memoirs, Forbidden Science. Link to a discussion of this briefing below. It seems Puthoff and/or Davis repeated this claim to AARO, who tracked down Sheehan and found, IF he ever spoke to them, it was likely a reference to the F117, not crashed UFOs:

An interviewee105 stated that a former military member, who was also an interviewee,had stated that he had touched an off-world aircraft. AARO contacted and interviewed the former military member 106 who denied any knowledge of off-world technology in possession of the USG, a private contractor, or any other foreign or domestic entity. The former military member attested that he could not remember if this encounter with the original interviewee had ever occurred, but opined that if it had happened, the only situation that he might have conveyed was the time when he touched an F-117 Nighthawk stealth fighter at a facility. The former military member signed an MFR attesting to the truthfulness of his account.

https://media.defense.gov/2024/Mar/...RO-HISTORICAL-RECORD-REPORT-VOLUME-1-2024.PDF

The same pattern repeats with the KONA BLUE program. People, likely Puthoff and Davis, told AARO the KONA BLUE program was a secret UFO program that didn't answer to Congress. It then it turned out Puthoff was among those trying to stand up KONA BLUE as a UFO program and it failed. It never answered to Congress, because it never got approved. Link below to thread.

It is critical to note that no extraterrestrial craft or bodies were ever collected—this material was only assumed to exist by KONA BLUE advocates and its anticipated contract performers. This was the same assumption made by those same individuals involved with the AAWSAP/AATIP program. The SAP was never approved or stood up, and no data or material was transferred to DHS.119

• KONA BLUE was not reported to Congress at that time because it was neverestablished as a SAP and, therefore, did not meet the threshold for congressional reporting. However, the Deputy Secretary of Defense provided a Congressional Notification concerning the program when it was identified in the spirit of transparency.

https://media.defense.gov/2024/Mar/...AARO-HISTORICAL-RECORD-REPORT-VOLUME-1-2024.P

When claims can be examined, they turn out to be false, otherwise, they are just stories repeated around by the same group of people.

Thread about KONA BLUE: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/kona-blue-aaro-report-on-the-proposed-aawsap-successor.13434/

Thread on the Italian UFO story often told by Grusch and Davis: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-a-ufo-crashed-in-1933-italy-and-the-us-recovered-it.13282/

Thread on briefing: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/the-congressional-uap-hearings-debrief.13077/

Mellon sending "whistleblowers" to AARO:


Source: https://x.com/ChrisKMellon/status/1750294265597428216?t=FFmz5FgT9kn_0nARlF0UxA&s=19


Grusch on JRE:


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYPXINFcvmI