Isis/Osiris consipracy, sexual and occult symbology in art, crucifixion scenes

I can deal with honesty, even if I don't like it, I respect peoples right to say it.

Are you suggesting a future along the broad lines of Hunger Games, Time, 1984, Starship Troopers, Star Wars etc, all of which share a broad commonality of an 'all powerful elite' which is technology rich and a sub caste of the plebeian masses which are kept down; is an inevitability?

Population control is definitely a massive issue which needs urgent address. China, being the worst affected, is the first to try to do something about it legislatively by mandating a 'one child only policy'.

Starship Troopers envisages a world in which one must 'earn the right to procreate'.

How do you see it?

I'm with Bill Gates on this one. Population growth will level off when countries reach stability in health and economic terms. Quick aside - do you understand why Bill Gates says vaccines are part of population growth reduction?
 
Reposting as original seems to have 'disappeared'

Like I said, I can't see what the divergence is.

Hitler and Stalin were racist and homophobic, what is the difference. (Think I put a bit better the first time)

What this typifies to me, is the problem of putting 'too much power' into the hands of one man or even an elite of like minded. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely

The divergence is between Nixon's opinion of the Grove, and Alex Jones. Nixon just thinks it's "the most faggy goddamned thing you could ever imagine", whereas Alex (and presumably you) think it's a deadly serious ancient ritual of stupendous importance in world affairs.
 
The divergence is between Nixon's opinion of the Grove, and Alex Jones. Nixon just thinks it's "the most faggy goddamned thing you could ever imagine", whereas Alex (and presumably you) think it's a deadly serious ancient ritual of stupendous importance in world affairs.
I did hear/read (if I am correct) that participants admitted the confab resulted in the success of the Manhattan Project . . . if true that is pretty stupendous . . .


Bohemian Grove - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_GroveThe Grove is particularly famous for a Manhattan Project planning meeting that took place ... it from Melvin Cyrus Meeker who had developed a successful logging operation in the area. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove

Content from External Source
 
I did hear/read (if I am correct) that participants admitted the confab resulted in the success of the Manhattan Project . . . if true that is pretty stupendous . . .


Bohemian Grove - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_GroveThe Grove is particularly famous for a Manhattan Project planning meeting that took place ... it from Melvin Cyrus Meeker who had developed a successful logging operation in the area. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove

Content from External Source

That is true and also that Greenspan attended just before being made head of the Fed, Also many other 'positions' were ratified at the grove... this is serious business.

So Nixon had to put up with 'the fags', big deal he got what he came for end of story.

And what an obnoxious person his own words prove him to be.
 
That is true and also that Greenspan attended just before being made head of the Fed, Also many other 'positions' were ratified at the grove... this is serious business.

So Nixon had to put up with 'the fags', big deal he got what he came for end of story.

And what an obnoxious person his own words prove him to be.

I seems pretty obvious that there would be significant meetings there, simply because there were significant people there, and they would meet.

The big question is: so what? If they did not meet there, they would meet elsewhere.
 
That is true and also that Greenspan attended just before being made head of the Fed, Also many other 'positions' were ratified at the grove... this is serious business.

How do you know positions were ratified at the gathering?

Anecdotal but pertinent...The actual location is not far from me - I met someone who had served as waitstaff at the gathering for a few years and described it as big party with lots of drinking and dumb skits but did not see anything outwardly suspicious or nefarious. I guess they save the satanic rituals for later.

Also, noteworthy is that members of the band the Grateful Dead have played there and supposedly GD guitarist Bob Weir is a member...either he has gone to the dark side or there is nothing much going on such that such a counter-culture icon and ..er...bohemian such as Weir feels comfortable joining.
 
I'm with Bill Gates on this one. Population growth will level off when countries reach stability in health and economic terms. Quick aside - do you understand why Bill Gates says vaccines are part of population growth reduction?

I haven't looked into that. Perhaps you could provide some links?

I am concerned about vaccines in general as they are definitely open to abuse if one wished.

It's all about TRUST. Do we trust those in positions of power? That needs to be earned and so far 'they' have not in my mind done so. I have no axe to grind with Bill Gates. He provided a brilliant user-friendly means for people to use computers.

I have no problem with occult things. Programming is essentially occult, it's the secret codings that make computers work, that's great but importantly it is only 'secret' in the sense that 'you have to take the time and trouble and have the aptitude to learn it. It is not secret as in 'only a select few are allowed to learn it.

But even if we do trust 'our leaders' and they are proven to be fit for office and of the best intent, we need to be aware that power can be usurped and 'things that appeared fine whilst x y and z where in office could be used as devastating tools of persecution if a, b and c take control.
 
Well, respectfully, I think you seem prone to seeing suspicious things everywhere based on very limited observations. I've done partial edits and warnings on MANY debunker posts. I've also cleanly excised MANY believer posts.

Lol, I think I may have learned it from you as you also seem quite partial to seeing suspicious things.
 
I haven't looked into that. Perhaps you could provide some links?

http://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates.html

At about 4:30
First, we've got population. The world today has 6.8 billion people. That's headed up to about nine billion. Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by, perhaps, 10 or 15 percent,
Content from External Source
However if you do a search, you'll see the conspiracy theorists claim this is Bill Gates "admitting" he's trying to kill people with vaccines. Like see the comments here:


In reality it's the correlation between infant mortality rate and population growth rate that he's addressing. Here's a brief explanation:
 
Lol, I think I may have learned it from you as you also seem quite partial to seeing suspicious things.

I do? Most conspiracy minded people tell me to opposite - that I'm an "everything is fine, nothing to see here" type of sheeple.
 
This puts Bohemian Grove in perspective IMO

Shame we have to go to RT and Alex Jones to find out anything. Alternative media is criticised on this and similar 'orthodox' sites but when you have such blatant media disinformation and suppression of information, where else do you go to find this important stuff out. It affects us all.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=QAfMe4Fy1Fo&feature=endscreen

Huh? What's new in this video?

What information has been suppressed about BG?
 
Huh? What's new in this video?

What information has been suppressed about BG?

Great I must have it wrong. Please post some links from CNN, BBC, SKY, WSJ, any other main stream news outlets informing the general populace about what goes on there and who attributes a speech given there to there nomination for high office. Also a 'mainstream media report on the Manhattan Project originating there or Tri Lateral agreements or any of the other stuff talked about.

Wikipedia doesn't really count as it is not a mainstream news agency, simply a product of information sharing on the net and even that does not really go into what goes on there in any depth let alone the import of it.
 
Just because information does not appear in the MSM does not mean they are covering it up. It's quite likely that the information is just not true, or not newsworthy, or not supported by evidence.

Be specific here. What one thing is being covered up, and what is the evidence for it? And why would it be in the news?

Why exactly is the fact that the initial Manhattan project meeting was held at the grove something that should make the news? It's just a location where the people were, so they had the meeting there.
 
This puts Bohemian Grove in perspective IMO

Shame we have to go to RT and Alex Jones to find out anything. Alternative media is criticised on this and similar 'orthodox' sites but when you have such blatant media disinformation and suppression of information, where else do you go to find this important stuff out. It affects us all.

...and yet the video you post contains clips from mainstream media...

I do not think Alex Jones lends a sense of credibility to the issue...he makes strong accusations but its merely his word and speculation- he admittedly DIDN'T see any of the things he claims goes on there- He is clearly very challenged as a source:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHgCopVQ5Ek


The RT Host mentions Peter Bergen- a respected journalist who - IMO - has more credibility than Jones- and says that Bergen said there was nothing untoward that took place there.

Here is an old but detailed look at the gathering:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/57990123/...Retreats-A-Study-in-Ruling-Class-Cohesiveness



On a side note- I do not think Alex Jones can be considered alternative anymore- being so ubiquitous on the internet and the internet being the main source of news for most people- he is mainstream...he views are not and he borders more on entertainment than factual reporting of the news...but he is definitely in the main stream of media...
 
Great I must have it wrong. Please post some links from CNN, BBC, SKY, WSJ, any other main stream news outlets informing the general populace about what goes on there and who attributes a speech given there to there nomination for high office. Also a 'mainstream media report on the Manhattan Project originating there or Tri Lateral agreements or any of the other stuff talked about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53fqi-kHMmA

not TV but definitely mainstream:

http://www.vanityfair.com/style/features/2009/05/bohemian-grove200905


Not media but interesting nonetheless- a PHd dissertation :

http://library.sonoma.edu/regional/faculty/phillips/bohemian.pdf
 
I can deal with honesty, even if I don't like it
So you don't like honesty.

Are you suggesting a future along the broad lines of Hunger Games, Time, 1984, Starship Troopers, Star Wars etc, all of which share a broad commonality of an 'all powerful elite' which is technology rich and a sub caste of the plebeian masses which are kept down; is an inevitability?
No. Apparently you are.

Population control is definitely a massive issue which needs urgent address. China, being the worst affected
We are all affected. You don't seem to get the point.

Starship Troopers envisages a world in which one must 'earn the right to procreate'. How do you see it?
I see a world that muddles through after 9/10ths of it dies in battles over food stores. I will have taught my grandchildren self-sufficiency. I won't be here, having had luxurious access to the last best part of the world. Just like you.

Thanks for all the fish...
 
Interesting, something in this article caught my eye:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ijozAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4zIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=4308,2001609


That was 30 years ago, and now we have Oxy saying things like:

Except the infowar is being lost... keep up the resistance... keep the net FREE! The 99% are waking up and have a voice.. Rock and Roll

Yes the jig is up because of the internet. If you google up ex masons nowadays you can get many many testimonies on what goes on and has gone on for millenia. This could never have been disseminated before.
[...]
Only now can the secrets be revealed.

I think back then people also felt that the jig was up, that they had discovered this secret society controlling the world, and they were revealing it to everyone, so the exposure would fix it.

But nothing changed. If anything, the rich got richer.

So what happened? Did they fail to get the public to look, or was there perhaps just nothing really that interesting to look at?
 
Last edited:
Most of us realize that the issue of population capacity or carrying capacity will need to be addressed . . . we all hope we don't have to rely on crisis management or a massive natural die off to answer the constraints . . . those who have studied population dynamics realize unless technology intervenes we may be looking at a potential nightmare . . .
 
So you don't like honesty.

That is one way of interpreting what I said, although I think you understood what I was really saying.

No. Apparently you are.
I wasn't saying anything, I was asking a question. The answer is 'no' that's cool.


We are all affected. You don't seem to get the point.

I understand fine. It's a big problem. I was simply asking your view.

I see a world that muddles through after 9/10ths of it dies in battles over food stores. I will have taught my grandchildren self-sufficiency. I won't be here, having had luxurious access to the last best part of the world. Just like you.

Thanks for all the fish...

That's an interesting view. 9/10ths die... similar to my concern? I proffered it as 'billions' but you essentially seem to be agreeing. If you would like to expand on it... how it evolves?

I was viewing it as a possible planned act, you seem to view it as an 'emergent natural process'... not trying to put words in your mouth, simply trying to understand your thinking on it.

Of course you are right that we have lived in very good times, we are very lucky.
 
Interesting, something in this article caught my eye:

That was 30 years ago, and now we have Oxy saying things like:

I think back then people also felt that the jig was up, that they had discovered this secret society controlling the world, and they were revealing it to everyone, so the exposure would fix it.

But nothing changed. If anything, the rich got richer.

So what happened? Did they fail to get the public to look, or was there perhaps just nothing really that interesting to look at?

I find it interesting to look at. It is generating a lot of interest still. In fact the interest is growing exponentially. Good digging with the main stream media, you actually found a small amount of coverage which is quite surprising.

'The infowar is being lost' actually comes from Brzezinski. I like that idea.

If people think I am strange because I don't want to be 'chipped', monitored and surveilled in infinitesimal detail then they can think I am strange.

Funny though how you appear so defensive of the 'privacy of the elite' and what they get up to whilst they plan our lives in secret.

Strange how prostitution and homosexuality are no longer crimes when the elite are doing it. Guess Jazzy would say 'Get used to it' but I don't see why we should have to myself.
 
If people think I am strange because I don't want to be 'chipped', monitored and surveilled in infinitesimal detail then they can think I am strange.
That's not strange.

Funny though how you appear so defensive of the 'privacy of the elite' and what they get up to whilst they plan our lives in secret.
I believe in equality under the law, and the rule of law. I do not thing the elite should have any more or less restrictions on their privacy than you and I have

Strange how prostitution and homosexuality are no longer crimes when the elite are doing it. Guess Jazzy would say 'Get used to it' but I don't see why we should have to myself.
Homosexuality is not a crime. Prostitution is not a strongly enforced crime even in places in the US where it is a crime, there's plenty of it within a mile of my house, and it's not being done by the elite.
 
I find it interesting to look at. It is generating a lot of interest still. In fact the interest is growing exponentially. Good digging with the main stream media, you actually found a small amount of coverage which is quite surprising.

'The infowar is being lost' actually comes from Brzezinski. I like that idea.

If people think I am strange because I don't want to be 'chipped', monitored and surveilled in infinitesimal detail then they can think I am strange.

Funny though how you appear so defensive of the 'privacy of the elite' and what they get up to whilst they plan our lives in secret.

Strange how prostitution and homosexuality are no longer crimes when the elite are doing it. Guess Jazzy would say 'Get used to it' but I don't see why we should have to myself.

No, It is not strange to not want to be monitored 24/7. Privacy is always nice.

"Strange how prostitution and homosexuality are no longer crimes when the elite are doing it."
Where did you get that from?
 
Oh, and about that previous comment- you just got me on a bad day. No bad feelings I hope, I apologize. We are here, as you said, to have an intelligent conversation.

To Mick-
The rules have been read. This is Strike 1, and the only strike. I tend to keep it that way.
 
That's not strange.


I believe in equality under the law, and the rule of law. I do not thing the elite should have any more or less restrictions on their privacy than you and I have


Homosexuality is not a crime. Prostitution is not a strongly enforced crime even in places in the US where it is a crime, there's plenty of it within a mile of my house, and it's not being done by the elite.

I only mention it on the basis that during the time frame of Bohemian Grove, it has been illegal. The same as prostitution is illegal. It is strange that these laws are suspended, as is remarked upon in some of the online videos.

Prostitutes are regularly arrested, and special 'vice squads' operate to this end. Unless this is just in the films of course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States

Prior to 1962, sodomy was a felony in every state, punished by a lengthy term of imprisonment and/or hard labor. In that year, the Model Penal Code (MPC) — developed by the American Law Institute to promote uniformity among the states as they modernized their statutes — struck a compromise that removed consensual sodomy from its criminal code while making it a crime to solicit for sodomy. In 1962 Illinois adopted the recommendations of the Model Penal Code and thus became the first state to remove criminal penalties for consensual sodomy from its criminal code,[3] almost a decade before any other state.[citation needed]​ Over the years, many of the states that did not repeal their sodomy laws had enacted legislation reducing the penalty. At the time of the Lawrence decision in 2003, the penalty for violating a sodomy law varied very widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction among those states retaining their sodomy laws. The harshest penalties were in Idaho, where a person convicted of sodomy could earn a life sentence. Michigan followed, with a maximum penalty of 15 years imprisonment while repeat offenders got life. This was later invalidated in the case of Michigan Organization for Human Rights v. Kelly (1987).[citation needed]​
Content from External Source
Also the illegality was/is at the behest of the people who were defying the law.

It seems hypocritical IMO
 
I only mention it on the basis that during the time frame of Bohemian Grove, it has been illegal. The same as prostitution is illegal. It is strange that these laws are suspended, as is remarked upon in some of the online videos.

Prostitutes are regularly arrested, and special 'vice squads' operate to this end. Unless this is just in the films of course.

That fact that sodomy was made legal in CA in 1974 indicates it would have been acceptable well before that. Certainly men having sex in private was no big deal. I don't see any evidence of special treatment of the Grove regarding homosexuality.

Prostitutes are regularly arrested. And they are are also far more regularly not arrested. Vice squads generally bust organized prostitution. A girl picking up guys in bars and going back to a hotel room to have sex with is a private transaction, and it does not seem like there was any particularly special treatment here.

"Red-light" districts have operated (illegally) for decades all round the state. Hookers have operated (illegally) in bars all round the state for decades. I think you are making something out of nothing. It's no different to hookers hanging out around a political convention. Just with richer guys.
 
Just butting into this, but a world without wars is stupid. War is profitable, creates jobs and makes the economy better. It is a common known fact that when World War II ended, we were out of the Great Depression.

Nothing personal but I have to challenge the statement. The best way I can see of that is via some soldiers views on this war and who is benefiting and who is suffering.

[h=1]Even US Soldiers are Waking up to the New World Order[/h]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6TlQbuLjIU

Its pretty powerful IMO
 
Nothing personal but I have to challenge the statement. The best way I can see of that is via some soldiers views on this war and who is benefiting and who is suffering.

Even US Soldiers are Waking up to the New World Order

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6TlQbuLjIU

Its pretty powerful IMO

Sure, War is a Racket, but also another topic. This can go in another thread if people really think it's worth discussing.
 
That fact that sodomy was made legal in CA in 1974 indicates it would have been acceptable well before that. Certainly men having sex in private was no big deal. I don't see any evidence of special treatment of the Grove regarding homosexuality.

Prostitutes are regularly arrested. And they are are also far more regularly not arrested. Vice squads generally bust organized prostitution. A girl picking up guys in bars and going back to a hotel room to have sex with is a private transaction, and it does not seem like there was any particularly special treatment here.

"Red-light" districts have operated (illegally) for decades all round the state. Hookers have operated (illegally) in bars all round the state for decades. I think you are making something out of nothing. It's no different to hookers hanging out around a political convention. Just with richer guys.

Seems like a bit of an emergent topic within the broader sense of the thread.

Personally, I see it as important in the context of the social strata or 'caste' system which clearly operates in the U.S. Yes it operates world wide in various ways but the U.S makes much of 'it's morality' and 'lack of class structure' so when you blatantly see criminal law, (felony), openly looked on by the justice system, (law enforcement), I think it should at least merit a raised eyebrow and a few questions. If so many are doing it why not legalise it?

I will not pursue it other than to say, here are a few facts:

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-oldest-profession-shocking-facts-statistics-663619.htm

70% of female inmates in American prisons were initially arrested for prostitution

All arrests of prostitutes involve entrapment, invasion of privacy, and/or the use of discriminatory laws/tactics

The average age of entry into prostitution is 13 years

A Canadian Report on Prostitution and Pornography concluded that girls and women in prostitution have a mortality rate 40 times higher than the national average
All of the respondents in the New York study listed finances as their reason for getting into sex work
Now you know the facts, you can come to your own conclusions.


http://voices.yahoo.com/prostitution-united-states-sex-drugs-alcohol-107396.html?cat=17

Hypocrisy righteousness, and radical political activism have all guided the plight to keep prostitution illegal and its workers unseen; however in many cases it is the very people that lead the fight against it that have partaken in its lure, whether it be government officials, religious family men, or the police. The issue of prostitution exists in a dichotomy of ideals, practices, and perception. There is the dichotomy of street hooker versus high priced whore, of feminist theory and the issue of women being either exploited or liberated, and the ideals behind criminalizing prostitution-who are we punishing? Who are the real victims?

Does prohibition really work...
 
Well, the thread is really about if there's some kind of ancient religion behind a worldwide conspiracy to impose a new world order. But we don't seem to be getting very far with that.

You want to try revisiting it and briefly listing the key evidence?
 
It's high noon. The foe defeated, the weary lawman shuffles nervously dow the main street, hands on pistols, wondering whether there are snipers in the roof tops...
 
Perhaps it may be an appropriate time to see exactly on what we can agree, if anything, so I will put a small list of what I think is relevant and ask if you agree or disagree and if you disagree, why you disagree. For ease, tacit agreement is concluded in the absence of disagreement.

1) A religion/philosophy existed in Babylon thousands of years before Judeo Christian religion

2) It was based on science but was presented to the masses in symbolism and allegory as religious doctrine.

3) It comprised the core of all pagan religions of the time and the pantheon of gods were variously known by a number of names.

4) Judaism evolved from this religion and shares many of the core belief systems.

5) Christianity emerged from Judaism and struggled against massive persecution for around 300 years.

6) Christianity gained acceptance due to Emperor Constantine and in order to bring paganism into Christianity, they were merged over time.

7) Knights Templar were the 'strong arm' of the the Catholic Church.

8) Religion and politics were inextricably linked throughout this timeframe.

9)The priests considered, and were, the illumined ones throughout and the masses were fed on what they needed to know or what it suited the priests for them to believe

If we leave it there for the time being.

Well I did try to get some direction by seeing at least what we could and could not agree and why, but to be honest there was an apparent lack of response and the only two answers seemed disinterested and derisory to me, which disinclined me to continue. I also thought the lack of genuine interest was quite strange given that this is supposed to be a forum of people who by their involvement are expressing an interest in these type of subjects.

If anyone wishes to progress it in a reasonable fashion, I am prepared to discuss it further.
 
Would you say your case rests upon a large number of individual pieces of circumstantial evidence, each of which alone is pretty meaningless, but when taken as a whole they reveal (or at least give grounds for suspicion of) your theory.

Or are there pieces of evidence that you feel are "smoking guns"?
 
Would you say your case rests upon a large number of individual pieces of circumstantial evidence, each of which alone is pretty meaningless, but when taken as a whole they reveal (or at least give grounds for suspicion of) your theory.

Or are there pieces of evidence that you feel are "smoking guns"?

I would say it's a trail which can be followed. It can be shown that these things have threaded throughout history and can still be evidenced today.

I can say there is clear evidence which shows how these arcane practises have been promulgated at the highest levels and how 'the masses' have been dragged along with it by some members of the elite. Within this elite there are power struggles, which has served to avert a world government to date, and that there are still power struggles which are being played out which will decide who ends up with what powers and where but it is largely a cartel at the moment and the exact power hierarchy is still emerging... emerging in the sense of who becomes more dominant.

World domination is not a new concept and in no way can it be rationally disparaged as a comical 'Dr Evil' scenario.

Communism wants world domination... it is a stated and clear objective.

The Catholic church wants world domination... again stated and clear.

Islam wants world domination... ditto

United Kingdom sought it... and still wants it.

American is currently pursuing it as stated by many people but I think Brzezinski states it clearest.

The disunity has prevented it and power plays, similar to power plays within the mafia, go on constantly.

Throughout the powers listed, as well as the powers not so far included, runs the thread going back to Babylon Mystery Religion, whereby each of these powers contain elite people all linked together in that understanding and fraternity originated from Babylon Priesthood.

Obviously not all members of the elite subscribe to it. The time frame has covered thousands of years but the current technologies of the age make it within grasp.

The thing is, people are aware of the terrors these 'benevolent' changes bring as they have been well documented through the aftermath of religious conquests/impositions as well as political conquests/impositions.
 
Well, I'm sorry, but I really don't see that you've presented any compelling evidence (or even any slightly suspicious circumstantial evidence) to back up this "Babylon Mystery Religion" having any effect on current affairs.
 
Well, I'm sorry, but I really don't see that you've presented any compelling evidence (or even any slightly suspicious circumstantial evidence) to back up this "Babylon Mystery Religion" having any effect on current affairs.

That's fine, people have different perceptions of things. Many Americans will say 'What we are doing is right... we are the good guys' and many Americans will say 'What we are doing is wrong and we have no business invading other countries ... bring our troops home'. Its perspective as simple as that. It took an awful lot of protesting, among other things, to stop the Vietnam War.

I take it you don't even accept the Babylonian Religion as being on two level, the esoteric, scientific level and the exoteric rituals for the masses.
 
Back
Top