NoParty
Senior Member.
Sorry, but I remember my Strunk & White pretty well...that dog's name is "Pipsqueak" (one word, always!)
Max Bliss debates chemtrails
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David Fraser
Senior Member.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...065.1073741827.328240720622120&type=1&theater
Max claims this is proof of chemtrailing during the search for MH370. It is taken from a BBC news article here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26782637
Max claims that this is flight JA500A, which is the aircraft shown at the beginning of the piece and is a Gulfstream of the Japanese Coastguard http://aegwaspotters.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/japan-coast-guard-gulfstream-g550.html
The uniforms are Australian in the piece and the aircraft shown at the end is an AP3C-Orion as this article clearly states
https://my.news.yahoo.com/photos/ma...otruding-left-wing-royal-photo-103245271.htmlExternal Quote:
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Excess fuel is dumped from a nozzle protruding from the left wing of a Royal Australian Air Force AP-3C Orion aircraft before landing, after their mission searching for missing Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 over the southern Indian Ocean was aborted, March 27, 2014. Severe weather on Thursday halted the air search for a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet presumed crashed in the southern Indian Ocean, frustrating hopes of finding what new satellite images showed could be a large debris field. REUTERS/Michael Martina (MID-SEA - Tags: MILITARY TRANSPORT)
So all in all a fuel dump.
mrfintoil
Active Member
http://webserver.dmt.upm.es/~isidoro/tc3/Aircraft ECS.pdf
I think it's quite clear that the controversial text is referring to cabin air, not outside conditions.
"At cruise altitudes there is practically no water in the [cabin] air, so it is natural to have dry cabin air."
I think the reason why "cabin" is left out the first time is because it reads quirky to use it twice in such short interval. And the whole previous section is talking about humidity conditions inside the cabin, from being stationary on the ground through take off and ascension, so why shouldn't this particular line not refer to cabin air at cruising altitude?
A little bit further down we read:
"Outside humidity is very small at high altitudes, and is kept very low inside the plane to minimize problems of condensation and frost on the cold structure"
Here we see they make a clear distinction between inside and outside conditions, so if previous section referred to outside conditions, it should have expressed this.
And for eventual believers who might read "outside humidity is very small", this is talking about absolute humidity, not relative humidity. Even if you have low absolute humidity, you can still reach 100% relative humidity, which causes condensation to form.
It's interesting to note that Max Bliss explains 'relative humidity' as "How much water is in the air". But what he describes is absolute humidity. Relative humidity is the amount of water in relation to temperature and pressure, which I explained is a whole other thing.
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WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Someone should inform "Max Bliss" that he is grossly mistaken in his "reasoning".
The fact that the air being introduced into the airplane cabin as part of the pressurization system is "dry" is simply due to the way this air has been "conditioned" as part of the process!!
An air conditioning "pack" (as we call them) is also called an "Air Cycle Machine" (or 'ACM'). It uses hot, compressed air (taken in from the ambient surroundings...typically tapped off from an engine's compressor section, but as seen with the Boeing 787, that installation uses an electric compressor pump design instead) and the moisture is removed as part of this process! When the hot, compressed air is expanded (and cooled to near 0°C/32°F), the water contained precipitates out, and is shunted to drain overboard.
Perhaps this video should be force-fed to "Max Bliss"??:
Here is "Max" being forced to watch and get an education:
EDIT: I bunged up the [ url ] embedded BB code, and can't seem to fix it!! (Embarrassed)
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TWCobra
Senior Member.
The Orion P3Cs have an enormous endurance but must operate to conservative fuel rules.
At the first search site they had to allow for an engine out, depressurised, return to Perth which limited them to two hours search time.
This new search area is much closer which allows for a much longer search time due to the reduced contingency fuel requirements.
This also means that if the flight returns due to deteriorating weather, then they will be waaaay overweight for landing and a fuel dump is required.
All of this is lost on Max however. According to him it doesn't even. "Look like fuel". When does an bricklayer come across avtur?
Max calls for pilots to strike to stop the chemtrail program. I love the comment from one on the thread, to paraphrase; "why should pilots strike to stop chemtrails when none of you are willing to stop flying to your holidays in aeroplanes." Why indeed?
Max is increasingly desperate. He knows there is no proof for what he asserts, a fact also demonstrated by Harold Saive who showed the paucity of his argument by begging for a pilot whistleblower on P4T.
Why is that needed Max and Harold if your case is so strong ?
At the first search site they had to allow for an engine out, depressurised, return to Perth which limited them to two hours search time.
This new search area is much closer which allows for a much longer search time due to the reduced contingency fuel requirements.
This also means that if the flight returns due to deteriorating weather, then they will be waaaay overweight for landing and a fuel dump is required.
All of this is lost on Max however. According to him it doesn't even. "Look like fuel". When does an bricklayer come across avtur?
Max calls for pilots to strike to stop the chemtrail program. I love the comment from one on the thread, to paraphrase; "why should pilots strike to stop chemtrails when none of you are willing to stop flying to your holidays in aeroplanes." Why indeed?
Max is increasingly desperate. He knows there is no proof for what he asserts, a fact also demonstrated by Harold Saive who showed the paucity of his argument by begging for a pilot whistleblower on P4T.
Why is that needed Max and Harold if your case is so strong ?
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Yes. How else can we, as pilots, explain the vast misconceptions spewed by people like "Max Bliss"??
(Scratching my head here, in frustration!)
By breaking them down, and explaining them in clear simple threads with findable titles. One bit a time
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Ah!!! The proverbial "Light Bulb", as in the cartoon version, just appeared over my head!!
NoParty
Senior Member.
That sounds really good! If only we could get someone to dedicate an entire website to just that kind of systematic, polite de-bunking!
Svartbjørn
Senior Member.
I think you're asking too much NP.. itd never work
deirdre
Senior Member
speaking for myself, and everyone I know, I don't think normal people have any trouble realizing outside air is way different then inside air. we may not know how the inside air got there. but we know its not the outside air. if it was the outside air we wouldn't be able to breathe.
I think you need neuroscientists to figure out how to explain it ( to 'them') , not pilots.
mrfintoil
Active Member
NoParty
Senior Member.
Wow! Four minutes without a shred of scientific support for the claim of "chemtrails"
but lots and lots of shoutouts for Metabunk…
Overall, I'd say more good than bad for those that fight nonsense claims.
TWCobra
Senior Member.
Sounds like Max is being forced to accommodate Dane Wigingtons POV regarding chemtrails causing global warming.
Max if you can find an error in anything I say, or what any of the other people you slander in your video say, please point it out instead of resorting to mindless insults.
Max if you can find an error in anything I say, or what any of the other people you slander in your video say, please point it out instead of resorting to mindless insults.
Hama Neggs
Senior Member
"Calling someone out" generally means that you intend to confront them and see what they have to say. I'm guessing Max has no intention of listening to any response.
Ross Marsden
Senior Member.
He doesn't "call [us] out" in the sense of a challenge.
He mentions our names and says we are insane, and a few seconds later says "the guys at metabank are criminals". This is between 1:55 and 2:30.
Right at the end (3.47) he names us again, and wishes we were "decent, all-round, honest people". Well, Max, we are.
mrfintoil
Active Member
I think this is mainly theatrical. No real intent to establish a proper dialogue I think. Like most of you already pointed out, if he really had proper factual arguments against any of you, he would have presented them by now instead of constantly barking at the skies like he usually does in these videos.
By the way, that "EU seed law" he talks about is probably this relatively old thing which caused a stir about a year ago among proponents of organic farming: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-13-400_en.htm
Most people believed the revised legislation only dealt with seeds, and that it allowed government to literally imprison those who planted uncertified seeds in their own private garden. It was believed that the Monsanto corporation was behind this (of course) to gain even further monopoly on seeds.
The truth is that the revised legislation do not include private farmers at all, even small commercial enterprises can be granted exemptions from these laws. The laws was not all about restricting use of seeds, but they were part of a much bigger revision of general food certification. Like it says in the EU press release the previous legal system was outdated and inefficient, which allowed faux content to be sold as a genuine products. The horse meat scandal from last year is one example of this, and the faux meat was so wide spread that a new more efficient legislation system had to be done, which now deals with all elements in the food chain, seeds included.
I presume Max didn't care to find out the actual purpose of these revised EU laws, so he still lives with this original misconception and is now trying to incorporate it into his conspiracy narrative.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
I think that this may be a positive, actually. Those people who were previously unaware of MetaBunk (and ContrailScience) will be directed here (and there), and perhaps begin to see exactly just "who" is sane.
Anecdotal: Had lunch yesterday with a neighbor (an MD, in radiology) and, just conversationally, mentioned my participation in online Forums like this, and on the topic of "chem"trails. He was completely unaware of the sub-culture belief in the Urban Legend (Myth). It isn't "mainstream", apparently.
I've had several similar experience. It's worth remembering that the conspiracy culture is really quite insular. While I've met several people who have heard of the chemtrail theory, the majority of people have not, and would just think it's silly.
JRBids
Senior Member
I used to tell people about these forums and how people think contrails are chemtrails. Not one person has heard of them, and all have either laughed or looked totally confused by the whole idea.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Then, you and I have similar experiences (in the "real world") in that regard. However, the very small percentage of "belief" in so-called "chem"trails would continue to be assigned to the category of nonsense that those who profess (serious) belief in other fantasies, such as (...insert here...).
But, in particular, this Urban Legend (Myth) is very pervasive, and potentially dangerous:
Advocating violence against "Chemtrail" planes, pilots, scientists, and debunkers
THAT ( ^^^ ) gave me pause, and encouraged me to keep attempting to educate the ill-informed.
derwoodii
Senior Member.
The trouble with the higher functioning ill at ease like dear Max is they have great capacity to create a world that fits their beliefs & or delusions.
Cherry picking parts and writing persuasive prose to be used via www.web gathering more of the same ilk to be come a collective ( i'm thinking Star trek Borg here).
I find direct approach to the entrenched minds more often ends in defeat or reprisal & to date I am unsure what primmer is best for unwrapping the truth while allowing space for their id and ego to fill & find balance with a new reality.
Luke 23:34 and no I dont subscribe to it sources its is just a very good phrase ATM
Cherry picking parts and writing persuasive prose to be used via www.web gathering more of the same ilk to be come a collective ( i'm thinking Star trek Borg here).
I find direct approach to the entrenched minds more often ends in defeat or reprisal & to date I am unsure what primmer is best for unwrapping the truth while allowing space for their id and ego to fill & find balance with a new reality.
Luke 23:34 and no I dont subscribe to it sources its is just a very good phrase ATM
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Sorry....I agree with "Cherry Picking" as a false tactic, so on-board with that aspect. Oh and a "Primer" to help teach, yes agreed.
(I realize that in English the word spelled this way <primer> has different pronunciations, and meanings. The English language has its faults, let's be clear!)
I've fallen into the "primmer"/"primer" trap myself.
SO....the context is a "Primary" (hence the "prim" root) sort of educational tool....in that sense, let us proceed!!
(PERSONAL bias...no need for bible references, when using logic).
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
NO worries....I enjoy the occasional chain saw, and destructive capabilities too...I wasn't singling you out, personally. Sorry if you felt that, it was NOT the intent!!!!
PEACE!
ETA....a very funny UTube:
OK....maybe the one above isn't that funny...
Here's one that is guaranteed to make you laugh...(I hope):
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Hama Neggs
Senior Member
Hilariously apropos!
OT but reminded me of some Ozzy lyrics.
Screams break the silence
Waking from the dead of night
Vengence is boiling
He's returned to kill the light
Then when he's found who he's looking for
Listen in awe and you'll hear him
Bark at the moon
Ha ha ha ha ha...
TEEJ
Senior Member.
Hama Neggs
Senior Member
So brave of Max to say it's pseudoscience, but never debate any specific details.
Hama Neggs
Senior Member
Well, he taunted Mick on Twitter about WW2 trails and said he would show Mick for a fool and liar. Funny how that all just faded away with Max never presenting anything.
I think Max has been trying to build a case for the WWII thing, but is perhaps unsatisfied with what he found. He asked me on Twitter if I'd found any WWII contrail footage from "The Pacific Theater". I sent him some brief shots of contrails from Japan Bombing raids, and explained why there was unlikely to be much in the way of footage.
Hama Neggs
Senior Member
He was making some distinction about the part of the world where trails were seen? Any idea why?
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