Max Bliss debates chemtrails

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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
He was making some distinction about the part of the world where trails were seen? Any idea why?
Possibly related to his idea that all WWII contrails were due to water injection? Maybe he thinks different planes were used in the Pacific?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Possibly related to his idea that all WWII contrails were due to water injection? Maybe he thinks different planes were used in the Pacific?
to some extent they were - all B-29's were in the Pacific, all Japanese a/c were in the Pacific (obviously but you never know), later model B-17's were not used in the Pacific, most US naval a/c were not seen much in Europe, most British naval a/c not seen much in the Pacific, no Spitfire IX's served in the Pacific (they used Spit VIII's - which had the same engine but was purpose designed for it whereas the IX was a "hasty" arrangement of the uprated engine fitted to a Spitfire V airframe that just so happened to work perfectly and so more IX's were made than VIII's!), and so forth.

So while it is fairly obviously a moot point from a rational/science/evidence point of view it might pay to be aware of the differences in air fleets that did exist in case he does bring it up.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Max seems to be taking cherry-picking to new heights. This post from his R.E.A.L Institute FB quotes NASA's education piece on contrails.

The post triumphantly notes that NASA says there are metal particles in jet exhausts. It is true.. there are, in miniscule amounts. They come from the engine itself which is operating at high revs and temperatures. It is called "normal wear".

Max however conspicuously fails to acknowledge the following points from the same article;

1. Contrails are mainly composed of ice.

2. The persistent contrails from a small biz-jet, a Sabreliner, were measured as weighing an average of 3.1 kg/flight metre. (Jets cover an average of 15,000 metres (8 nautical miles) /minute in cruise. The maths therefore blows chemtrail theory out of the water as a contrail persisting for 3 minutes from a Sabreliner would weigh more than the max payload available in any aircraft; 134 tonnes in a 747-8 freighter). A Sabreliner itself only weighs approx 7.5 tonnes fully loaded.

3. The weight of the parts of the contrail that are not water or CO2 (SO2, soot and metallic particles) is 0.025kg/flight metre or 0.375 kg per minute of flight.

Max, you should read up on confirmation bias.
 

Balance

Senior Member.
@TWCobra I read that yesterday and thought he's really scraping the bottom of the barrel by commenting on this "admission" of metal particles in the exhaust from NASA. Perhaps he'll realise all those passing road vehicles (including his own) are also commiting the same "evil crimes against humanity".
 

TEEJ

Senior Member.
Max is off again dabbling in Flight Radar 24 and getting it wrong, yet again!

upload_2014-10-10_11-49-23.png

https://www.facebook.com/mrmaxbliss?fref=ts

Unfortunately Max you got the wrong aircraft. The aircraft you filmed was not the Raytheon 390 Premier well to the east of you but the Cessna Citation Mustang (Registration M-IFFY) at nearly 34,000 feet.

Raytheon 390 Premier

http://www.flightradar24.com/2014-10-09/17:33/12x/PRM1/4880f27

Cessna Citation Registration M-IFFY at nearly 34,000 feet.

http://www.flightradar24.com/2014-10-09/17:03/12x/MIFFY/4880482

https://www.flickr.com/photos/hetebrij/15325349992/

Max has been busy again making videos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/MrMaxBliss

Max doing his research on Ryan Air :)

 

Debra

Member
Of course it wasn't the Fascist NWO who terminated his channel, it was because he is a thief.

 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Of course it wasn't the Fascist NWO who terminated his channel, it was because he is a thief.

sweet. was that on facebook, cause I'm not finding it in browser search.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
They look at it as a badge of honor, they feel the more times they are taken down, the closer they are to the truth, they won't mention the copyright infringements that led to the take down. Max already has a new channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkVwJARa97zzXchnhyY8lwA

His facebook reaction:
View attachment 9849
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...0810995396.524896.685100395&type=1&permPage=1
Damn, and all this time I thought YouTube was exposing "the fascist NWO!" :confused:
 

Rico

Senior Member.
I saw that yesterday.

Odd. What does Dane get for flagging copyright on fellow chemtrail promoters?
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
There is a large schism in what they believe. Wigington says that Global Warming is caused by chemtrails... Bliss says that Global warming is a hoax. They have clashed about this before.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Bliss on Wigington.
What to do (rhetorical).

train-wreck? I dunno.

Because this is NOT meant as an educational Forum....nevertheless there is NO on-going form of "geo-engineering" as proposed by either of these two gentlemen.

Reading that post though....displays HUGE mistaken beliefs, which comport with many on-going "conspiracy beliefs" that range far beyond the realm of this thread's "Posting Guidelines", and topic.

....perhaps...self-destruct mode? ;)
 
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Mackdog

Senior Member.
There is a large schism in what they believe. Wigington says that Global Warming is caused by chemtrails... Bliss says that Global warming is a hoax. They have clashed about this before.
Now both may start claiming that the other is a government operative that is trying to "divide and conquer". This type of infighting is why the CT movements never get any traction (thankfully).
 
Now both may start claiming that the other is a government operative that is trying to "divide and conquer". This type of infighting is why the CT movements never get any traction (thankfully).
True. That, and the whole lack of any compelling evidence whatsoever. But I'm nitpicking. :)
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
There is a large schism in what they believe. Wigington says that Global Warming is caused by chemtrails... Bliss says that Global warming is a hoax. They have clashed about this before.
Not quite. Dane fully accepts AGW is valid, but believes that chemtrails/geoengineering has been deployed to mitigate the effects, but that it is being over done, or that there are further unintended effects.

Max Bliss suggests this of Dane in that capture posted by TEEJ in post #415.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Dane also seems to believe that chemtrails are blocking sunlight (according to his bio he first got into the subject when his solar panels were underperforming) and yet simultaneously believes that solar radiation is "off the charts". He wants to bake his cake, have it, eat it and sell it.
 

TEEJ

Senior Member.
I assume that Max's mocking answer is actually the correct one.
Max wouldn't understand even if he was taken up on a flight to observe contrail formation by different by-pass turbofans. The NASA HU-25C is fitted with medium-bypass turbofans.

He would probably think that the following film footage was CGI?

Note at 8:25 the low-bypass Snecma M53's of the Mirage 2000 at that specific time not producing contrails while the Airbus A340s hi-bypass are still producing.

upload_2014-12-15_21-29-39.png



The producers of the movie sought out assistance from the French Air Force in order to have contrails for effect.

Google translation of the French website.

From

http://archives.aerobuzz.fr/article147.html

In the latest NASA test footage the chase plane is a Falcon 20 fitted with medium-bypass turbofans the same as the HU-25C in the image posted by Max.

 

Larrydalooza

New Member
Also, in my imagination, the lower jet has just descended through the contrail at a different thrust than the jet that is intentionally trying to create a contrail. Between engine design and operating differences, in lies the explanation.
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
plus also the smaller jet on the left is very close to the edge of the frame. Is it possible there ARE contrails but just forming that little bit further away? What distance behind that jet SHOULD a contrail form?
 
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Mackdog

Senior Member.
plus also the smaller jet on the left is very close to the edge of the frame. Is it possible there ARE contrails but just forming that little bit further away? What distance behind that jet SHOULD a contrail form?
Also I would think that the air would be warmer right behind the DC-8, which would mean that the air is not conducive for forming contrails.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
Note at 8:25 the low-bypass Snecma M53's of the Mirage 2000 at that specific time not producing contrails while the Airbus A340s hi-bypass are still producing.
Yep, but the current prevailing "wisdom" in chemmie circles is that high-bypass engines CAN'T produce contrails. Ask them why they believe that and you get crickets. :rolleyes:
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Yep, but the current prevailing "wisdom" in chemmie circles is that high-bypass engines CAN'T produce contrails. Ask them why they believe...
'cause some CT they believed said it--probably when they were first getting indoctrinated--
...and now it's stuck in there...likely forever... :oops: (It's known after all...no need to look it up now)
 

TEEJ

Senior Member.
Images from flights during 2013. The HU-25 Falcon/Guardian can be seen forming contrails as it trails the DC-8.




http://www.nasa.gov/topics/aeronautics/features/access_fuel.html#.VI_6IiusWSr

Of note they were also planning to trail commercial airliners as targets of opportunity.

http://phys.org/news/2014-04-nasa-effects-emissions-contrail-formation.html
 

rezn8d

Jim Lee
"
US Defense Department switching to civilian-grade jet fuel
By Matt Kohlman & Joshua Mann | February 13, 2014 02:05 PM
http://blogs.platts.com/2014/02/13/us-defense-department-switching-to-civilian-grade-jet-fuel/

Contrails, Geoengineering, and the Single Fuel Concept
http://climateviewer.com/2014/11/05/contrails-geoengineering-single-fuel-concept/

 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Jim, can you answer this question please?

How do you reconcile the requirement for Geoengineering to be carried out in the high Stratosphere, with the total inability of any current aircraft, and particularly the airliners usually filmed by chemtrail advocates, to get anywhere near the required altitudes, even without a useful load much less with one?
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
And while you are mulling that one, can you also explain how, if Geoengineering additives are in the fuel, why we never see white trails on takeoff, climb and descent?

After you have ignored that question, can you also explain how geoengineering nanoparticles can be added to commercially available fuel without altering the specific Gravity of the fuel, something that pilots such as myself are required to check after every refuelling.

Please then explain how said nanoparticles can be added without affecting the freezing temperature of the fuel, something that is also required to be known to the degree by both pilots and onboard fuel temperature sensing systems?

In your own time please...
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
@rezn8d ("Jim Lee") --- you posted a video that is over 45 minutes long with no specific time references and claims.

When I have the time I will attempt to address that video, and post in its "comments" section as to (what I expect I will find) its many errors.

But first, could you help out by citing one or two actual points from the video? (I presume you've already watched it in its entirety?).
 

Keith Beachy

Senior Member
Why would switching to bio-jet-fuel stop contrails?

What does JP-4 have to do with the fantasy of chemtrails? JP-4 was used because it does not freeze up like other jet fuels. When we flew with JP-5 at high altitude our fuel control unit would freeze up and as we descended our engine would go sub idle, stuck, essentially off. How does switching fuels support the "chemtrail" fantasy and claims of conspiracy? When aircraft crash, the fuel can burn; even JetA burns and can blow up in flight. Why bring up flash point and leave out defined claims.

There are additives in our car gasoline - is that part of the chemtrail conspiracy never explained with facts.
 

rezn8d

Jim Lee
Jim, can you answer this question please?

How do you reconcile the requirement for Geoengineering to be carried out in the high Stratosphere, with the total inability of any current aircraft, and particularly the airliners usually filmed by chemtrail advocates, to get anywhere near the required altitudes, even without a useful load much less with one?
Contrails are not geoengineering, they are the bane of the aviation industry

Longer Airline Flights Proposed to Combat Global Warming
http://www.livescience.com/104-longer-airline-flights-proposed-combat-global-warming.html

Earth Warmed by Trails of Clouds that Jets Leave Behind
http://www.livescience.com/13462-contrails-climate-change-global-warming-clouds-air-travel.html


NASA to study the effects on emissions and contrail formation of burning alternative jet fuels
http://phys.org/news/2014-04-nasa-effects-emissions-contrail-formation.html

thought you might enjoy this:

On The Climate response to Cirrus Cloud Seeding
https://ams.confex.com/ams/95Annual/webprogram/Paper268699.html

 

rezn8d

Jim Lee
And while you are mulling that one, can you also explain how, if Geoengineering additives are in the fuel, why we never see white trails on takeoff, climb and descent?

After you have ignored that question, can you also explain how geoengineering nanoparticles can be added to commercially available fuel without altering the specific Gravity of the fuel, something that pilots such as myself are required to check after every refuelling.

Please then explain how said nanoparticles can be added without affecting the freezing temperature of the fuel, something that is also required to be known to the degree by both pilots and onboard fuel temperature sensing systems?

In your own time please...
No I won't explain any of that as I clearly don't believe any of this is geoengineering, it's pollution.

BETZ LABORATORIES INC/BETZ DEARBORN -- SPEC-AID 8Q462 -- 6850-01-432-7761
http://www.hazard.com/msds/f2/cdg/cdgcf.html
 

rezn8d

Jim Lee
@rezn8d ("Jim Lee") --- you posted a video that is over 45 minutes long with no specific time references and claims.

When I have the time I will attempt to address that video, and post in its "comments" section as to (what I expect I will find) its many errors.

But first, could you help out by citing one or two actual points from the video? (I presume you've already watched it in its entirety?).
I not only watched the video, I made it. Tune in and learn something.
 

rezn8d

Jim Lee
Why would switching to bio-jet-fuel stop contrails?

What does JP-4 have to do with the fantasy of chemtrails? JP-4 was used because it does not freeze up like other jet fuels. When we flew with JP-5 at high altitude our fuel control unit would freeze up and as we descended our engine would go sub idle, stuck, essentially off. How does switching fuels support the "chemtrail" fantasy and claims of conspiracy? When aircraft crash, the fuel can burn; even JetA burns and can blow up in flight. Why bring up flash point and leave out defined claims.

There are additives in our car gasoline - is that part of the chemtrail conspiracy never explained with facts.
I cite those explosive incidences as they were quotes from the Colonel who proposed the switch to JP-8 during the NATO single fuel concept conversion between 1988-1996. The year the conversion was complete, the chemtrail conspiracy began.

These are not coincidences.

ps. I spoke with Mick West on the phone for 45 minutes prior to releasing all of this. He knew nothing of the NATO Pipeline Committee, the Single Fuel Concept, or any of this, so quit acting like none of this is a surprise to you. K?
 
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