1. igoddard

    igoddard Active Member

    Ah! A question of photo forensics in this case...

    The Daily Mail is reporting opinion that the "Good Boys" bus-stop poster behind Epstein's alleged madam Ghislaine Maxwell was photoshopped in. Was it? I'm skeptical, but unsure. This photo was published by The New York Post last week and was reportedly taken last Monday, Aug 12, two days after Epstein died.

    [​IMG]
    @ https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/ghislaine-maxwell.jpg

    However <cue mystery music>, Daily Mail says that poster is not there now, and they contacted the advertising company that installs the poster on that bus stop and they say the poster for a hospital that is there now has been up since July 28, and that there never was a Good Boys poster there. Moreover, the advertising company opines that the "Good Boys" poster was photoshopped in. The Mail states:

    My first impression is that it was not photoshopped in because on the glass panel housing the poster there is a reflection of a white SUV, seemingly the same one in the street to its left...

    [​IMG]

    And the reflection of the white SUV would be extremely hard to photoshop in, so hard my sense is the Good Boys poster was not photoshopped in. But I could be wrong. Based on what the advertiser told the Mail, you have to wonder.

    Also, there is a red 'wash' over the 'Good' in "Good Boys" above, but that red-wash is not seen in the copy of the same photo The Daily Mail shows...

    [​IMG]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...y-Ghislaine-Maxwells-burger-bar-makeover.html

    Another question is: Would we see that white SUV in reflection given the positions of the poster panel and the SUV? I'm unsure about that, the poster appears to be closer, and the SUV further away. So should we even be seeing the white SUV in the reflection?
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  2. Agent K

    Agent K Active Member

    What's going on with the faces of the man and woman behind her?
     
  3. igoddard

    igoddard Active Member

    Their faces are definitely photoshopped to protect their privacy. More obviously in this copy of the photo...

    [​IMG]

    http://archive.fo/AaQor
     
  4. Agent K

    Agent K Active Member

    Someone tried to unpixelate them?

    Edit: And the New York Post logo is covering up the second tray of food on the seat.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    That's a different photo. Different traffic and people.
    Metabunk 2019-08-18 21-03-53.
     
  6. Agent K

    Agent K Active Member

    If the original unphotoshopped photo didn't have the reflection, why would someone go to the trouble of adding one?
     
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  7. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    :) off topic, but fun stuff
    https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/ghislaine-maxwell-in-n-out/
     
  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Yes you would. The poster is at right angles to the road, so a reflection of the SUV is going to look like if there's another SUV parked in front of this one, facing the other way. And that's exactly what it looks like.
    Metabunk 2019-08-18 21-45-12.
     
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  9. Agent K

    Agent K Active Member

    She was reading The Book of Honor: The Secret Lives and Deaths of CIA Operatives, according to the NY Post.
    As I quoted above, her father was accused of spying for the KGB or the Mossad. There were conspiracy theories about his death ostensibly from falling off his boat.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    There's another edit, which is odd:
    Metabunk 2019-08-18 22-00-03.

    Metabunk 2019-08-18 22-01-00.

    In the first image, the Miceli's sign has been obscured with red, like the word "GOOD" in GOOD BOYS.

    In the second, it has been clumsily edited out entirely.

    It looks like this:
    Metabunk 2019-08-18 22-04-57.
     
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  11. igoddard

    igoddard Active Member

    Bang, there it is! So I find it very hard to believe the "Good Boys" poster was photoshopped in. But the mystery persists as to why it's there given it's not now and the poster-installing company says it never was.

    Here's a copy of the photo where the 'Good' in "Good Boys" does not have a red-wash over it...

    [​IMG]

    http://archive.is/ooQcs

    But notice how prominent "Good Boys" hits you, it's almost a bit too bright, in-focus and flat-on. Just going with the Mail's narrative that something's up with that sign.
     
  12. igoddard

    igoddard Active Member

    I'm somewhat wondering if the NY Post got scammed by a prank. In a fast-paced breaking-news environment, it might be easy to bite on one. In the face-on shot of Maxwell, I swear her face looks to have had smoothing done to some of it. There seems to be less grainy noise in her face.
     
  13. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Possibly some kind of copyright issue. They have also blurred out the all the identifiable signs in the mini-mall
    Metabunk 2019-08-18 22-14-46.

    Google street view:
    Metabunk 2019-08-18 22-15-38.
     
  14. Agent K

    Agent K Active Member

    Good catch, definitely photoshopped. At least Outfront's "Need Cannabis" poster is legit.
    upload_2019-8-18_22-26-2.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  15. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  17. Agent K

    Agent K Active Member

  18. Agent K

    Agent K Active Member

    The street sign looks blue-washed.
    upload_2019-8-18_22-44-34.
     
  19. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Weird, almost like they are trying to take out identifiable signs. None of this indicates the Good Boys sign was faked though. Unless they did a super good fake with 3D rendered reflections, and then did the world's worst half-assed obscuration job.
     
  20. Agent K

    Agent K Active Member

    Looking at the .jpg file's metadata.
    Title: ***MUST WATERMARK BEFORE PUBLICATION*** Ghislaine Maxwell is seen Thursday, Aug. 15, 2019, at In and Out Burger in Universal City, Los Angeles, 3640 Cahuenga Blvd. (NO CREDIT)

    Authors: Meadowgate Media;

    What's Meadowgate Media?
     
  21. Agent K

    Agent K Active Member

    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
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  22. igoddard

    igoddard Active Member

    Business Insider has a shot of the spot now, and we can see the sign for a local hospital ("ER" prominently visible) that the Daily Mail reports that the sign-installing company says has been there since July 28...

    1566161392513.

    Notice in this copy of the face-on shot, the "Good Boys" sign might be different. Here the 'Good' seems like a thin font, but it is not in the other copies. Although this might be an effect of the red 'wash' seen in the higher res copies making it look thin. But the white of the 'Good' seems here to be bright, not washed out...



    But why would they photoshop in the "Good Boys" poster? That makes no obvious sense.

    Could it be that this "Gotcha!" story was concocted by Maxwell and her PR advisors? A PR stunt? Any media would bite if she wanted to cause an effect. And notice just as news was hitting that she's laying low in New England, sketchy photos emerge with a contrived paparazzi "Gotcha!" narrative leading us to believe she's living in LA.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
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  23. igoddard

    igoddard Active Member

    Yes, and there are two phones, two cups, two meals. Kinda like two people.

    But the NY Post's story was:
    And why would she bother to tell a paparazzi the title of the book she was reading? That sounds utterly contrived. And the book is on murdered CIA agents. That has a pranky smell, imo, like a conspiracy-theory joke.

    Note also that all the contents on the table are markedly shifted around from one to the next photo, indicating passage of time and much ado. As well note the different patrons in the surrounding tables from one to the next photo. So presumably this paparazzi was hovering over her for like 45 minutes. And she didn't call the police? A simple explanation seems to be that the "paparazzi" was actually the second person for the second phone, cup and meal.
     
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  24. Auldy

    Auldy Senior Member

  25. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    based on yotube tutorials, it's not that hard to change a bus stop ad. Maybe the movie people snuck their poster in there for a few days before the movie came out. (or an advertising company employee did a temp swap for a few days and doesn't want ER to know or they'll get sued. Unless selling bus stop ad space is a highly ethical endeavor? )
     
  26. travis8945

    travis8945 New Member

    New guy here. Just wanted to quickly interject and say that the "why" the "Good Boys" poster might've been included:
    A theory on reddit that I've observed is that "Good Boys" is a film that hypersexualizes subject matter containing children and in doing so hypersexualizes children. It could be a little nod to that theory and the whole Epstein-Pedo narrative. Taken in tandem with the fact that many people believe this photo op to be a staged event (myself included pending more information), it could be seen that Maxwell deliberately had herself photographed in front of such a relevant poster or in fact had it edited to include said poster. There is so much noise here, man.
     
  27. Stlar1111

    Stlar1111 New Member

    Here are some observations

    The pictures were taken at three different times.

    Glasses off photo (front view). Single man at third table, he has an uneaten hamburger, SUV is reflected in the Boys sign, red take out box on seat, three people eating at rear left table.

    Glasses on photo (front view). Two people at third table, looks like they are finishing up their meal, no SUV reflection. The boys sign is not redded out because the SUV isnt there, the SUV is in the picture with the single male in the rear table.

    Glasses on photo (side view). Dog in picture and an obvious wall/trash can photoshop. Grey SUV is parked in background. From the following google streetview photo, you can see that the trash can is located inside the brick wall not on the outside of the wall, outside the wall is a parking lot drive.

    Trash Can.JPG

    I also think the Grey SUV has been photoshopped. In the following google aerial photo you can see that the building has a street facing red awning and a side facing awning. In the reflection of the Grey SUV you can see two side facing awnings that would not match the location.

    Canopy.JPG


    Reflection.JPG Reflection.JPG Trash Can.JPG Canopy.JPG Just my observations on the photos. The time period must have been over 15 minutes or so because of the other customers finishing their meal and a new man sitting down. Things have changed at the table, take out box on seat, phone/keys, bag. Also is it strange that there are no straws in the drinks? Looks like it was staged. Also, why would they do such a poor photoshop job on the trash can, almost like they want people to catch it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2019
  28. Stlar1111

    Stlar1111 New Member

    Something else I noticed about the side view picture/photoshop. Near the bottom of her shirt/top of pants, you can see what looks like some aggregate rock that is not part of the seat. This is the same rock that the trash cans are made of showing that the trash can was removed (poorly) in front of the wall and placed behind the wall.
     
  29. igoddard

    igoddard Active Member

    I'm still not persuaded that the Good Boys poster was photoshopped in. Aside from the Daily Mail report, and even in a photo with horrendously bad photoshopping all over, the Good Boys sign would by itself not stand out as pasted in. Imo, based on photo examination it's believable that it was out there. I can even make an argument on focus and camera artifacts that seem to be in the Good Boys poster and surrounding content. So maybe we have to also be skeptical of The Daily Mail's story.

    The reflection over the Good Boys poster seems hard to believe would have been worked in by an editor. The reflection reveals a 3D rotation of the SUV, so you could not just copy the SUV on the left, flip it and gently ghost-paste it over to create a fake reflection. You'd have to have two views of the SUV. So that reflection has got to be real, and was there. The only way I can conceive of this being an editing job is another poster was there in the original photo and had this same reflection, then a skillful editor preserved the reflection even while pasting in the Good Boys poster. That's not inconceivable nor impossible, but it would be a lot of work and could not have been the same editor who did the botch edits all over the photos.
     
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  30. igoddard

    igoddard Active Member

    A simpler hypothesis might be that -- assuimg the Good Boys poster was skillfully edited in -- it might have allowed a photo from say 2016 to be made contemporary given the Good Boys movie was just out the same week as the photo is alleged to have been taken.
     
  31. Stlar1111

    Stlar1111 New Member

    Its almost like they put the good boys poster in to reference time, like a kidnapper making a hostage hold a newspaper to establish that the hostage is ok at a certain date.
     
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  32. tinkertailor

    tinkertailor Senior Member

    I spend a lot of time in LA and constantly notice which movies are being advertised to me and where. I can literally date certain conversations and memories in my head by thinking "well, I remember seeing a billboard for Deadpool 2 after saying that, so I must have had that conversation in May". I am sure that someone in that neighborhood could tell you exactly when and where this was taken.

    As for the photo itself, it looks like it was shot at an unusual focal length for a paparazzi shot. I rarely see paparazzi photos that don't look like they were taken from a distance with a long zoom lens. Usually those shots are candid too, and her smile and calm demeanor are at odds with that. Paparazzi love getting photos of people eating foods that make their subject look unattractive, like hamburgers and hotdogs. Yet here, she looks so prim and perfect and smiling.
     
  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I had a go at photoshopping in a different sign with a reflection of the car.

    Metabunk 2019-08-19 12-53-07.

    Not too hard. This took me maybe 20 minutes.
     
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  34. Stlar1111

    Stlar1111 New Member

    One issue I can see with a changing of the poster would be the reflection quality from the ER sign to the Boys sign. If the ER sign is the correct sign, it is a light color and the reflection would be very difficult to see (not much contrast). Someone could have put in the boys sign AND put in a white SUV reflection, however this would have been much harder to do. Could be that a $7.00/hour worker messed up the signs.
     
  35. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    if you're making a photo you want to delete distracting elements. in this case they used a clone tool to add in the brick wall over the ugly garbage can.

    you're really gonna have to use your imagination to follow my awesome picture here.. I think that is the blue parking sign breaking up the awning there.
    aa.PNG
     
  36. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    That's what I did. Didn't really take long to add the reflection. Although the car is a different model.

    Maxwell-Fake-Car-Reflection-on-off.
     
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  37. Stlar1111

    Stlar1111 New Member

    It could be the blue (i assume no parking sign) is breaking up the awning, however, that would make it look like two squares and not two rectangles. The reflections definitely look rectangular, but it also could be a curvature in the grey SUV panel as well.
     
  38. Stlar1111

    Stlar1111 New Member

    There could be two photoshops going on here. One that changed the sign (good quality) and one that changed all the other elements (daily mail) such as moving the trash can, removing images on the shopping center signs, removing and replacing the neon sign on the Italian restaurant. I just dont understand WHY (other than composition) they would remove the trash can and Italian restaurant sign. I can see them blurring other stores for legal reasons.
     
  39. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    this truck has weird stuff going on too.. and I doubt google street car is photoshopping stuff to protect someone like Maxwell.
    upload_2019-8-19_16-50-51.
     
  40. igoddard

    igoddard Active Member

    Nice work! Though another thing to consider is would editor even think of adding a reflection, or be able to understand how it should appear, which can be somewhat counter-intuitive.

    Here's a comparison

    [​IMG]

    Notice that there appears to be signs of waves in the presumably paper poster giving wavy shading along its left edge and that is consistent in the two shots. Notice also the grain in the photo is uniform across the photo and poster, but not in your simulated insert. Possibly with a full-res original then reduced in size that could be faked as well. But I still say there's no obvious clue that the Good Boys poster is photoshopped into the images.