Debunked: Fake Snow, Burning Snow.

SAB said:
Mick....I have to disagree....I live on a farm and I am pretty familiar with incomplete combustion....this was different.
Click to expand...

Can you try this experiment with your candle, and report back?



Make sure you get a lot of soot on the jug.
 
Why are you still using a flame to melt the snowball when it has been repeatedly said that the flame its3elf will cause the smell?
If you want to come to any valid conclusions about the snow, melt it in a saucepan, test the flame on non-flammable materials, to at least isolate that claim from the test.
 
Cloudspotter said "Geoengineering proposals have been around for some time now but there is zero evidence that geoengineering of the type you are talking about has been implemented." Perhaps that's true...... but just move Joyce's lecture to the 2 minute 22 second mark....and listen to the sentence....at 2:22 she states "and we also know the aerosols (and then she takes a deep...almost gulping breath) that we are currently emitting are ummm ...are already protecting us from global warming to a certain extent" Just a funny little Mommy linguistic conspiracy theory BUT..... having four children, the deep breath almost always comes when they are getting something off their chest. This is just a parenting note that I am aware of....I 've experienced many a confessions from the children (LOL). The are/ ummm type of speach is also, I've noticed from parenting, a chance to harness your words properly. These are just my parenting observations and in no way am I saying this is Science. Cloudspotter I think the evidence is clear....but I could be brain damaged from burning those damn snowballs. http://video.mit.edu/watch/using-aerosol-injections-for-geoengineering-4828/
 
Pete Tar...the freaking snow melts...yes it will melt from the Sun...duh...it's gone here in Georgia...that's not the point...the point is...somethings not exactly right with the snow.
 
SAB said:
Cloudspotter said "Geoengineering proposals have been around for some time now but there is zero evidence that geoengineering of the type you are talking about has been implemented." Perhaps that's true...... but just move Joyce's lecture to the 2 minute 22 second mark....and listen to the sentence....at 2:22 she states "and we also know the aerosols (and then she takes a deep...almost gulping breath) that we are currently emitting are ummm ...are already protecting us from global warming to a certain extent" Just a funny little Mommy linguistic conspiracy theory BUT..... having four children, the deep breath almost always comes when they are getting something off their chest. This is just a parenting note that I am aware of....I 've experienced many a confessions from the children (LOL). The are/ ummm type of speach is also, I've noticed from parenting, a chance to harness your words properly. These are just my parenting observations and in no way am I saying this is Science. Cloudspotter I think the evidence is clear....but I could be brain damaged from burning those damn snowballs. http://video.mit.edu/watch/using-aerosol-injections-for-geoengineering-4828/
Click to expand...

Let's keep the focus on the "burning" snowballs please. There are plenty of other threads for the other topics.
 
Mick...I don't care a darn bit about black soot....I'm concerned that the smell is telling us a different story. It's funny because I live in a college town and lots of folks, of course, were doing the "snow ball" test here. One of the things I kept hearing over and over from the young stoner students (hey, I think it's better than drinking but that's just my humble opinion) so many of those kids were saying....I've smoked my bowl of weed down to nothing in my glass pipe or wood pipe and then sniffed the bowl (why?, I don't know, why do boys scratch their balls in the morning) and they all have said.....even though they use a lighter for this purpose...none of them had ever experienced the smell of burning plastic. Are you kidding about keeping on topic....the burning snowball may have everything to do with these aerosols that Joyce says "we are currently using"...it may have NOTHING to do with it but it's absolutely something to THINK about.
 
SAB said:
Perhaps that's true...... but just move Joyce's lecture to the 2 minute 22 second mark....and listen to the sentence....at 2:22 she states "and we also know the aerosols (and then she takes a deep...almost gulping breath) that we are currently emitting are ummm ...are already protecting us from global warming to a certain extent" Just a funny little Mommy linguistic conspiracy theory BUT..... having four children, the deep breath almost always comes when they are getting something off their chest. This is just a parenting note that I am aware of....I 've experienced many a confessions from the children (LOL). The are/ ummm type of speach is also, I've noticed from parenting, a chance to harness your words properly. These are just my parenting observations . . .
Click to expand...

I think a better interpretation of this comment by Joyce is she is acknowledging the presence of human generated pollution which in the form of Sulfur Dioxide that gets (emitted) into the stratosphere is thought by some to have slowed global warming through a form of global dimming . . . In fact substances are always in the atmosphere, in rain, in snow and in all combustion products . . . the question is what is normal, what is unexpected but normal and what is unexpected and not normal?
 
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SAB said:
Mick...I don't care a darn bit about black soot....I'm concerned that the smell is telling us a different story.
Click to expand...

The experiment is to check for the smell. Hold the jug over the candle until you get it sooting up, and sniff it.
 
SAB said:
Mick....I have to disagree....I live on a farm and I am pretty familiar with incomplete combustion....this was different. Hey, I'm not saying it was anything nefarious...the smell was odd and toxic to say the least. I actually enjoy some of the smells of incomplete combustion. I know that sounds strange but from tweaking out our generator to working on farm equipment even those wonderful and plentiful bowls of weed I smoked in college, I've had plenty of experience with incomplete combustion....that was NOT the smell of that, not even close. Cloudspotter...please if you can take the time listen to this lecture...I also linked the same one in my above post but it is worth the listen. The spraying of aerosols (new and improved cloud seeding) is being done....and has been done...as the professor states in this video...."We" (they) have lowered the temperatures of the Earth already. This video is from a MIT video lecture series from a few years ago, Joyce Penner is an aerosol expert and a proponent of geo-engineering not a crazy conspiracy theorist. Please take the time to watch...she says we have been SPRAYING AEROSOLS and that YES they have been working to cool the Earth although not to the degree that had hoped for. http://video.mit.edu/watch/using-aerosol-injections-for-geoengineering-4828/ Yes, the beginning of this lecture is about huge aerosols injections that have been contemplated, those that could replicate volcanic eruptions but just slide your slider up to the 2 minute 17 second mark and pause it...now read..and then please continue to listen. They have called it "cloud seeding" but you will see, she uses the term aerosol injections. Does that have anything to do with our snow? I have no idea. I have also had people say...perhaps this was water that was picked up from the Gulf of Mexico with chemicals from the BP oil spill clean-up. I do know the toxic smell of burning chemicals was unmistakable. I took a ball to the house of my neighbor who worked as an aerospace engineer and also taught at the University of Georgia. I heated up a snow ball for him with a candle and asked him "What does this smell like to you?" and he said..."it smells like we need to take it out of the house so we don't end up with brain cancer" (LOL). He is such a salt of the Earth person and not prone to any conspiracy theory. In fact if I could get him to use the internet, (He is 82 and doesn't use the internet) he would love this sight. I told him about the "imcomplete combustion theory and he said..."that was complete combustion, of what, I don't know" Who really knows?
Click to expand...

First, the 'cloud seeding' she mentions early in the vid is inadvertent, being caused by aerosol pollution from ocean going ships. Second, unless I missed it somewhere, she uses the term EMIT multiple times in describing the pollution emitted by hydrocarbon combustion. You're spinning it to make it sound like she's saying aerosol injection is currently happening but any objective person can understand that she's talking about future proposals, and what effect certain aerosols in normal exhaust emissions currently have on climate. A lot of what she's saying is hypothetical anyway. She even says in the summary "I think the response of the whole system needs to be studied considerably more. Probably the strategy matters, what you use will matter enormously. My personal belief is that we will need to improve the GCM (Global Circulation Model) before we can believe the (modeled) results on precipitation."

Why should we believe that your interpretation of the smell of soot on snow is any less inaccurate than your interpretation of Penner's lecture? :rolleyes:
 
SAB said:
.the burning snowball may have everything to do with these aerosols that Joyce says "we are currently using"...it may have NOTHING to do with it but it's absolutely something to THINK about.
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SAB, I only watched the first few minutes but she is talking about current pollution we emit into the atmosphere. I think her "gulp" is just speaker-anxiety but she might be hiding something I guess.
 
SAB said:
Mick...I don't care a darn bit about black soot....I'm concerned that the smell is telling us a different story.
Click to expand...
The soot is telling you a story, because that's what you are smelling. Listen a little bit to that piece of evidence.

SAB said:
One of the things I kept hearing over and over from the young stoner students (hey, I think it's better than drinking but that's just my humble opinion) so many of those kids were saying....I've smoked my bowl of weed down to nothing in my glass pipe or wood pipe and then sniffed the bowl (why?, I don't know, why do boys scratch their balls in the morning) and they all have said.....even though they use a lighter for this purpose...none of them had ever experienced the smell of burning plastic.
Click to expand...

As a former pot smoker.......when the weed is gone, the resin/residue remains. That left-over resin still burns.
If anyone were to try to put a lighter to a new/clean pipe and suck on it.....it would taste nasty.....like burning chemicals. It would taste like the lighter, nothing else.
 
SAB said:
Mick...I don't care a darn bit about black soot....I'm concerned that the smell is telling us a different story.
Click to expand...
the soot and smoke residue is what you're smelling. how can you say you don't care about the soot. and @Stupid is correct about resin in the bowl.
 
SAB said:
Mick....I have to disagree....I live on a farm and I am pretty familiar with incomplete combustion....this was different. Hey, I'm not saying it was anything nefarious...the smell was odd and toxic to say the least. I actually enjoy some of the smells of incomplete combustion. I know that sounds strange but from tweaking out our generator to working on farm equipment even those wonderful and plentiful bowls of weed I smoked in college, I've had plenty of experience with incomplete combustion....that was NOT the smell of that, not even close. Cloudspotter...please if you can take the time listen to this lecture...I also linked the same one in my above post but it is worth the listen. The spraying of aerosols (new and improved cloud seeding) is being done....and has been done...as the professor states in this video...."We" (they) have lowered the temperatures of the Earth already. This video is from a MIT video lecture series from a few years ago, Joyce Penner is an aerosol expert and a proponent of geo-engineering not a crazy conspiracy theorist. Please take the time to watch...she says we have been SPRAYING AEROSOLS and that YES they have been working to cool the Earth although not to the degree that had hoped for. http://video.mit.edu/watch/using-aerosol-injections-for-geoengineering-4828/ Yes, the beginning of this lecture is about huge aerosols injections that have been contemplated, those that could replicate volcanic eruptions but just slide your slider up to the 2 minute 17 second mark and pause it...now read..and then please continue to listen. They have called it "cloud seeding" but you will see, she uses the term aerosol injections. Does that have anything to do with our snow? I have no idea. I have also had people say...perhaps this was water that was picked up from the Gulf of Mexico with chemicals from the BP oil spill clean-up. I do know the toxic smell of burning chemicals was unmistakable. I took a ball to the house of my neighbor who worked as an aerospace engineer and also taught at the University of Georgia. I heated up a snow ball for him with a candle and asked him "What does this smell like to you?" and he said..."it smells like we need to take it out of the house so we don't end up with brain cancer" (LOL). He is such a salt of the Earth person and not prone to any conspiracy theory. In fact if I could get him to use the internet, (He is 82 and doesn't use the internet) he would love this sight. I told him about the "imcomplete combustion theory and he said..."that was complete combustion, of what, I don't know" Who really knows?
Click to expand...
That presentation by Joyce Penner is about the results of a computer modelling experiment using a Global Circulation Model and one or two of the projected climate scenarios. None of what she presented actually happened in the atmosphere. It happened in a computer.
 
Stupid said:
As a former pot smoker.......when the weed is gone, the resin/residue remains. That left-over resin still burns.
If anyone were to try to put a lighter to a new/clean pipe and suck on it.....it would taste nasty.....like burning chemicals. It would taste like the lighter, nothing else.
Click to expand...

And when someone smokes a bowl, they hold the lighter over the pipe, so they are sucking in clean burning flames .

6d7eff6cda1b90595b207d7ef4b327eb.jpg

Try smoking it with the bowl facing down, over the flame. You'll get a nasty smell/taste pretty quick there.
 
Mick West said:
And when someone smokes a bowl, they hold the lighter over the pipe, so they are sucking in clean burning flames .
Click to expand...
Erm. Actually the flame is above the bowl and it's contents. Combustion is complete and it is the very hot combustion products that are heating the buds to incandescence. If you dip the flame down too much, you get the nasties - the complex aromatics of incomplete combustion.
Oh, yeah man, keep the flame out of the bowl.
 
Ross Marsden said:
Erm. Actually the flame is above the bowl and it's contents. Combustion is complete and it is the very hot combustion products that are heating the buds to incandescence. If you dip the flame down too much, you get the nasties - the complex aromatics of incomplete combustion.
Oh, yeah man, keep the flame out of the bowl.
Click to expand...

My bowl smoking inexperience is showing :) But the basic point is the same. Don't smoke a bowl upside down :)
 
Mick West said:
And when someone smokes a bowl, they hold the lighter over the pipe, so they are sucking in clean burning flames .
Try smoking it with the bowl facing down, over the flame. You'll get a nasty smell/taste pretty quick there.
Click to expand...
I bet you are right, though I've never tried it :cool:
Sucking in air during a pipe toke does add extra oxygen, aiding in a fuller combustion.....like an Oxyacetylene welding torch....the more oxygen added to the acetylene, the cleaner it burns. No oxygen, and soot literally flies up in the air.
But when the fuller combustion by a lighter+air meets the pipe and it's waiting dried female-flower inhabitants, this new fuel source (d'kine weed, killer ganja) reaches another "incomplete combustion", resulting in a "thoroughly complete mind buzz" of under-combusted smoke and mind-blowing alternative reality that you try to explain to everyone.
....wow dude.....sweet.
 
SAB said:
Mick....I have to disagree....I live on a farm and I am pretty familiar with incomplete combustion....this was different. Hey, I'm not saying it was anything nefarious...the smell was odd and toxic to say the least. I actually enjoy some of the smells of incomplete combustion. I know that sounds strange but from tweaking out our generator to working on farm equipment even those wonderful and plentiful bowls of weed I smoked in college, I've had plenty of experience with incomplete combustion....that was NOT the smell of that, not even close. Cloudspotter...please if you can take the time listen to this lecture...I also linked the same one in my above post but it is worth the listen. The spraying of aerosols (new and improved cloud seeding) is being done....and has been done...as the professor states in this video...."We" (they) have lowered the temperatures of the Earth already. This video is from a MIT video lecture series from a few years ago, Joyce Penner is an aerosol expert and a proponent of geo-engineering not a crazy conspiracy theorist. Please take the time to watch...she says we have been SPRAYING AEROSOLS and that YES they have been working to cool the Earth although not to the degree that had hoped for. http://video.mit.edu/watch/using-aerosol-injections-for-geoengineering-4828/ Yes, the beginning of this lecture is about huge aerosols injections that have been contemplated, those that could replicate volcanic eruptions but just slide your slider up to the 2 minute 17 second mark and pause it...now read..and then please continue to listen. They have called it "cloud seeding" but you will see, she uses the term aerosol injections. Does that have anything to do with our snow? I have no idea. I have also had people say...perhaps this was water that was picked up from the Gulf of Mexico with chemicals from the BP oil spill clean-up. I do know the toxic smell of burning chemicals was unmistakable. I took a ball to the house of my neighbor who worked as an aerospace engineer and also taught at the University of Georgia. I heated up a snow ball for him with a candle and asked him "What does this smell like to you?" and he said..."it smells like we need to take it out of the house so we don't end up with brain cancer" (LOL). He is such a salt of the Earth person and not prone to any conspiracy theory. In fact if I could get him to use the internet, (He is 82 and doesn't use the internet) he would love this sight. I told him about the "imcomplete combustion theory and he said..."that was complete combustion, of what, I don't know" Who really knows?
Click to expand...


So did you hold the flame under a spoon, or a glass, and find out it gave off the same odor yet?
 
SAB said:
Cloudspotter...please if you can take the time listen to this lecture...I also linked the same one in my above post but it is worth the listen. The spraying of aerosols (new and improved cloud seeding) is being done....and has been done...as the professor states in this video...."We" (they) have lowered the temperatures of the Earth already. This video is from a MIT video lecture series from a few years ago, Joyce Penner is an aerosol expert and a proponent of geo-engineering not a crazy conspiracy theorist. Please take the time to watch...she says we have been SPRAYING AEROSOLS and that YES they have been working to cool the Earth although not to the degree that had hoped for. http://video.mit.edu/watch/using-aerosol-injections-for-geoengineering-4828/ Yes, the beginning of this lecture is about huge aerosols injections that have been contemplated, those that could replicate volcanic eruptions but just slide your slider up to the 2 minute 17 second mark and pause it...now read..and then please continue to listen. They have called it "cloud seeding" but you will see, she uses the term aerosol injections.
Click to expand...
I listened to it, and I think you misunderstood. She doesn't say that we have been "spraying aerosols" from airplanes in that segment. She's talking about ship tracks. As she says, "Where the emissions from ships brighten the clouds in the little lines that you see, and change the radius of the particles in the clouds." The aerosols in this case are from the exhaust of large sea ships, being "injected" (unintentionally) into marine layer clouds.

There's also a common misunderstanding, where people hear "aerosols" and assume it means "something being sprayed," because for most people the word is used only in reference to spray cans. In atmospheric research, it refers to any particles that are suspended in the air, from both natural sources and various sources of manmade pollution (see here for a NASA page about aerosols). She talks about aerosols from human pollution, but nowhere does she say that there's a current, ongoing program to intentionally release aerosols to mitigate the effects of global warming.

Edit: whoops, sorry - I see that this has already been answered. There was another page of responses that I hadn't seen. :oops:
 
Belfrey said:
I listened to it, and I think you misunderstood. She doesn't say that we have been "spraying aerosols" from airplanes in that segment. She's talking about ship tracks. As she says, "Where the emissions from ships brighten the clouds in the little lines that you see, and change the radius of the particles in the clouds." The aerosols in this case are from the exhaust of large sea ships, being "injected" (unintentionally) into marine layer clouds.

There's also a common misunderstanding, where people hear "aerosols" and assume it means "something being sprayed," because for most people the word is used only in reference to spray cans. In atmospheric research, it refers to any particles that are suspended in the air, from both natural sources and various sources of manmade pollution (see here for a NASA page about aerosols). She talks about aerosols from human pollution, but nowhere does she say that there's a current, ongoing program to intentionally release aerosols to mitigate the effects of global warming.
Click to expand...
Funny how people only hear/see what they want isn't it?
 
Jay Reynolds said:
Dane Wigington is pushing this one hard. He and others see it as an opportunity to advance the chemtrails hoax.
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/chemically-nucleated-snow-what-is-it/
Click to expand...
Hey Jay I do believe Dane has changed the video. The new one compaires shaved ice to packed snow. I replyed but im not sure of my wording. Could you review it for me? thank you.



(my reply on youtube)
Ive done my own experiment 5 grams of snow 2 ci melted with a bic lighter. resulting in 4.9 grams of water. so we have a 2% sublimation 98% wicking effect. while 2 ci of shaved ice weighed 15 grams and after melting with a lighter resulted in 14.7 grams still 2% sublimation and 98% melting no wicking effect due to the 3x density (water content) My findings say shaved ice has 3x the water content due to weight to 2 cubic inches of snow 5 grams and 2 cubic inches of shaved ice 15 grams. Ice has less air due to the crystalline structure of snow. Evident in color of your snowballs. your ice ball is dark and shows that it is saturated with water. while the snowball is white evidence that its full of air that will wick the water inside the snowball until it becomes saturated then it will drip. come on now we are not snowtards.
 
Robert Tankersley said:
Hey Jay I do believe Dane has changed the video. The new one compaires shaved ice to packed snow. I replyed but im not sure of my wording. Could you review it for me? thank you.



(my reply on youtube)
Ive done my own experiment 5 grams of snow 2 ci melted with a bic lighter. resulting in 4.9 grams of water. so we have a 2% sublimation 98% wicking effect. while 2 ci of shaved ice weighed 15 grams and after melting with a lighter resulted in 14.7 grams still 2% sublimation and 98% melting no wicking effect due to the 3x density (water content) My findings say shaved ice has 3x the water content due to weight to 2 cubic inches of snow 5 grams and 2 cubic inches of shaved ice 15 grams. Ice has less air due to the crystalline structure of snow. Evident in color of your snowballs. your ice ball is dark and shows that it is saturated with water. while the snowball is white evidence that its full of air that will wick the water inside the snowball until it becomes saturated then it will drip. come on now we are not snowtards.
Click to expand...


Interesting experiment. I don't think there's any sublimation though, just some evaporation of the melted water.
 
Robert Tankersley said:
What would be an indicator for sublimation?
Click to expand...

A lack of any liquid water.

Some of the water is gone. But there's nothing to suggest it sublimated. The physics just does not support sublimation at those temperatures. The lost water is evaporating.

It's kind of a minor point. But there was a rush to point at sublimation where it was not needed, and could not really help.
 
Great video showing that the mass of the snow does not change. Proving no real contribution of sublimation or evaporation to the effect.

 
Mick West said:
A lack of any liquid water.

Some of the water is gone. But there's nothing to suggest it sublimated. The physics just does not support sublimation at those temperatures. The lost water is evaporating.

It's kind of a minor point. But there was a rush to point at sublimation where it was not needed, and could not really help.
Click to expand...

If someone has some snow available, dip one side of a snowball into a little food coloring and melt the colored side, it should demonstrate the wicking effect.
 
I'm not familiar with this woman called Rev Michelle Hopkins but she's making some extraordinary claims about the snow in this video which is starting to go viral.

 
Emeline said:
I'm not familiar with this woman called Rev Michelle Hopkins but she's making some extraordinary claims about the snow in this video which is starting to go viral.

Click to expand...

Wow! Those are some real leaps of logic . . . contaminates are routinely found in rain drops, snow, and hail stones including bacteria . . . but to positively ID what she indicated would require way more than a bit of microscopic work and photography . . . red blood cells (possibly a few fungus spores, red cells could not survive without the proper saline balance and pH . . . they would rupture? Depleted Uranium? Barium particles? Bacteria ID'ed by subspecies . . . come on . . . I hope people will not swallow this fantasy!!

The bacteria she mentions is a well known to be found as nuclei for precipitation since 1970 and is used in artificial snow production at ski resorts . . .



Pseudomonas syringae


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudomonas_syringae

P. syringae also produce Ina proteins which cause water to freeze at fairly high temperatures, resulting in injury to plants. Since the 1970s, P. syringae has been implicated as an atmospheric "biological ice nucleator", with airborne bacteria serving ascloud condensation nuclei. Recent evidence has suggested that the species plays a larger role than previously thought in producing rainand snow. They have also been found in the cores of hailstones, aiding in bioprecipitation.[5] These Ina proteins are also used in making artificial snow.[6]


Content from External Source
 
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blargo said:
I am afraid they already are. I have seen people comment on this video "confirm that it is science fact." You hear what you want to hear...
Click to expand...
For misinformation to be believable it must contain some facts but to believe this you would have to think the world was about to quickly come to an end as we know it . . . it implies we are about to be transformed into some type of cyborg or removed from the planet . . . why use snow, use the food and water sources . . . they would be way cheaper and you could target exactly who you wished?
 
M Bornong said:
If someone has some snow available, dip one side of a snowball into a little food coloring and melt the colored side, it should demonstrate the wicking effect.
Click to expand...
M Bornong said:
If someone has some snow available, dip one side of a snowball into a little food coloring and melt the colored side, it should demonstrate the wicking effect.
Click to expand...
I had to use tomato juice since I don't have food coloring. but i'll probably end up going viral as "proof of ammonium phosphate in snow when cooked!" o_O

 
George B said:
For misinformation to be believable it must contain some facts but to believe this you would have to think the world was about to quickly come to an end as we know it . . . it implies we are about to be transformed into some type of cyborg or removed from the planet . . . why use snow, use the food and water sources . . . they would be way cheaper and you could target exactly who you wished?
Click to expand...


Here is some more of the Reverend's other work . . . pseudo-science ranting at its best . . .


Here’s another (earlier) youtube that shows TTA (or HAARP) frequencies delivered to planted chemtrails over storms. Rev Michelle uses a whole pot-pourri of new terms you’ll never have heard of like ‘infrasonic undulation’ and ‘frequency planes’ and contends the use of a CORPORATE GENOCIDE MACHINE and a PLAN TO CLEAN THE PLANET OF CIVILIANS aka Agenda 21. I’m not totally sure how this ‘holocaust of the human race’ folds into the Pay For Everything, Your Life Belongs To Commerce Theology (the real religion) that’s ruining this planet but let’s keep watching this research and see where Rev Michelle goes with it. http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...ea-floor-causing-2-earthquakes-2-2538692.html
Content from External Source
 
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This is instructive. . . . the Reverend claims special knowledge from military and scientific experts but identifies none of them for vetting . . .


RevMichelleHopkins - BIO ~ Why I know what I know
Byrevmichellehopkins
14,677 views


Content from External Source
 
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