Christian Conspiracy Theorists

This popped up in a Google alert:

http://www.watchmanscry.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=23

It seems to be a forum for people who are fundamentalist Christians, and also pretty serious conspiracy theorists. quite a fascinating mix. This comment quite surprised me:

http://www.watchmanscry.com/forum/showthread.php?p=227371

I think as Christians, we are the most privileged people on the planet. Because in a world of confusion and lies we have a solid truth to stand on with the Word of God. Even if everyone else is a liar, God is true. Romans 3:4

Astonishing certainty, mixed with distrust of everything else.

They debunk the Fake CNN coverage of the Gulf war. I was kinda sad, to be honest : ( I really liked believing that the media was lying to us. I know that is terrible to admit. But if I say I love truth then I need to consider this information right? I don't think they proved it was real at all, but they did help to me question it a little.

He was sad, because he preferred it when the media was lying! He liked the fantasy, and is struggling to get away from it because he likes it.

Anyway, not poking fun here, just quite fascinating.

Few things in this world are what they seem.
Time will tell Mick who was right about 9/11.

Mick said:

This popped up in a Google alert:

http://www.watchmanscry.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=23

It seems to be a forum for people who are fundamentalist Christians, and also pretty serious conspiracy theorists. quite a fascinating mix. This comment quite surprised me:

http://www.watchmanscry.com/forum/showthread.php?p=227371

I think as Christians, we are the most privileged people on the planet. Because in a world of confusion and lies we have a solid truth to stand on with the Word of God. Even if everyone else is a liar, God is true. Romans 3:4

Astonishing certainty, mixed with distrust of everything else.

They debunk the Fake CNN coverage of the Gulf war. I was kinda sad, to be honest : ( I really liked believing that the media was lying to us. I know that is terrible to admit. But if I say I love truth then I need to consider this information right? I don't think they proved it was real at all, but they did help to me question it a little.

He was sad, because he preferred it when the media was lying! He liked the fantasy, and is struggling to get away from it because he likes it.

Anyway, not poking fun here, just quite fascinating.

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Do you think Christians are more likely to believe conspiracies than others . . . ? or do you think religious people in general more likely to believe in conspiracy theories?

George B said:

Do you think Christians are more likely to believe conspiracies than others . . . ? or do you think religious people in general more likely to believe in conspiracy theories?

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Here's what I believe even though this question isn't for me, but I just want to say, that cults and conspiracy theories does indeed go hand-in-hand. For example, Rick Ross (and no he's not, the rapper guy; he has a site Rick Ross Institution) is a cult expert, he exposes what cults and cult-like behaviors that these cult leaders does to their followers: brainwash, exposes them to a false reality like Jones Town, Scientology, Desteni Production to name a few. The cult leaders and members don't like him and see him as a threat; they believe he's brainwashed-doesn't know what he's talking about, and he's a disinformer.

Then, we have conspiracy theoriest (maybe call them non-profit conspiracy theoriest). They see Mick, another example, as a threat because this site is about exposing the truth about conspiracy theorist lying about information, and it does cause their followers to be paranoid, delusional, and brainwashed.. So, their followers believe Mick to be a disinformer, works for the government/CIA, shrill whatever they can think of to make their argument valid. That's why I believe cults and conspiracy have so much in common.

I should add not using Mick name as disrespectful, but as an example, since this is his board, and you run into some unregister guests that are more likely the followers of conspiracy theories showings signs of cult-like behaviors.

You can see from Boot's comment from the Watchman's forum that he doesn't really know what he believes in because he wants to make a valid arugment that Metabunk is wrong, but they're right about a, b, and c. I guess that might count as Boot-being a Christian believing in the conspiracy theories rather than believing in the truth.

I see a lot of similarity in CT believers and cults. The 'belief' is more important than any fact is. Look at how a certain poster here reacts to me.

Cairenn said:

I see a lot of similarity in CT believers and cults. The 'belief' is more important than any fact is. Look at how a certain poster here reacts to me.

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Hmm..I don't know you, so I don't know how they react to you, but...I'll say Hello!

Cairenn said:

I see a lot of similarity in CT believers and cults. The 'belief' is more important than any fact is. Look at how a certain poster here reacts to me.

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Humanity is one big cult...and any group that deviates from it is ironically called a 'cult' prone to thinking like 'conspiracy theorists'.
This is nothing more than a defense mechanism of the human herd to label and explain any deviation by some of it's members to the majority.

A friend once said "Everyone on earth is gullible, paranoid and just plain stupid. All you have to do is wait around long enough and they'll eventually show you their particular brand."

How true!

Years ago I spent a lot of time posting on AOL's Christian message boards. Many far right conservative Christians had the mindset "there are dark evil forces attacking us every day, but we are special we have our super-hero Jesus on our side, so they can't touch us." The more extreme the sect, the more cult like. The Apostolic Pentacostals were, to me, the most extreme of that group.

Hiper, deviation from the norm is not inherently cult like. Cults are smallish groups walled off in one way or another from the majority. These groups tend to be parasitic in nature and beyond questioning. A good example of a cult is Heavens Gate. The members had odd beliefs and gave everything to the cause including life.

Now take people like Wild Bill Cooper. He and his ilk tolerate zero questions of their beliefs and demand money from the audience. Methods and amounts differ but the goal is authority and revenue. Many hardcore CT leaders operate that way. Worse they tell believers that they are the only source of truth.

Now compare that to say furries or crossdressers or BDSM followers. Many would find those peoples' behavior deviant but not cult like. There is no real financial abuse or dominant leader in those groups. Just consenting adults with interesting hobbies. So try not to feel so down on humanity.

JRBids said:

Years ago I spent a lot of time posting on AOL's Christian message boards. Many far right conservative Christians had the mindset "there are dark evil forces attacking us every day, but we are special we have our super-hero Jesus on our side, so they can't touch us." The more extreme the sect, the more cult like. The Apostolic Pentacostals were, to me, the most extreme of that group.

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Most religions have, at one time or another, shown themselves to be dangerous. Many are just another manifestation of conspiracy theories. Some have outgrown this, maybe.

F4Jock said:

Most religions have, at one time or another, shown themselves to be dangerous. Many are just another manifestation of conspiracy theories. Some have outgrown this, maybe.

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The mainstream religions are not dangerous, it is the dangerous people who misinterpret them, either deliberately, 'for the usual reasons' or through some form of illness/delusion.

Let's face it, we are all deluded and dangerous... it is simply a question of degree.

JeffreyNotGeoffrey said:

Many hardcore CT leaders operate that way. Worse they tell believers that they are the only source of truth.

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Who?

Oxymoron said:

The mainstream religions are not dangerous, it is the dangerous people who misinterpret them, either deliberately, 'for the usual reasons' or through some form of illness/delusion.

Let's face it, we are all deluded and dangerous... it is simply a question of degree.

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People are what make up a religion. Every mainstream religion thinks they are the one true way. Read the Bible. Read the Q'ran, the Torah. One page it's all brotherhood, next page it's kill the mf'ers! Words are weapons. People, as you correctly point out, are deluded and dangerous. You forgot one other thing: They're terminally stupid and easily led! The originators of said religions realized that.

F4Jock said:

People are what make up a religion. Every mainstream religion thinks they are the one true way. Read the Bible. Read the Q'ran, the Torah. One page it's all brotherhood, next page it's kill the mf'ers! Words are weapons. People, as you correctly point out, are deluded and dangerous. You forgot one other thing: They're terminally stupid and easily led! The originators of said religions realized that.

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Yes, Yes almost any group of people can be isolated and radicalized . . . so we should preach moderation in everything including moderation . . . because you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time . . . always be on guard for deceit . . . it is the only thing guaranteed other than death and taxes . . .

JeffreyNotGeoffrey said:

Many hardcore CT leaders operate that way. Worse they tell believers that they are the only source of truth.

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hmm...Richard Gage does not seem to operate that way.

So to be a hardcore official conspiracy theorist is allowed but not to be a hardcore government conspiracy theorist... then all of a sudden it becomes cult-like.

George B said:

Yes, Yes almost any group of people can be isolated and radicalized . . . so we should preach moderation in everything including moderation . . . because you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time . . . always be on guard for deceit . . . it is the only thing guaranteed other than death and taxes . . .

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Damn George! That was good! "Moderate moderation!" Could become the next battle cry of the Terminally Confused!

Now if you look at your "fooling" quote it essentially says people are gullible idiots most of the time!

And I agree about deceit. What you forgot is that we pick and choose our deceit so yours is not mine and vice versa. I think you'd be fun to have a beer with!

F4Jock said:

Damn George! That was good! "Moderate moderation!" Could become the next battle cry of the Terminally Confused!

Now if you look at your "fooling" quote it essentially says people are gullible idiots most of the time!

And I agree about deceit. What you forgot is that we pick and choose our deceit so yours is not mine and vice versa. I think you'd be fun to have a beer with!

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You got it . . . that is why places like MetaBunk are good to have around . . . for the few that escape the fog to encourage the rest . . . to have a beer . . .

George B said:

You got it . . . that is why places like MetaBunk are good to have around . . . for the few that escape the fog to encourage the rest . . . to have a beer . . .

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Once again "Kudos!!" Only problem is, well you nailed it, "the few." I was a field-grade commander in wartime. I have perhaps too little patience for what is a constantly demonstrated persistent lack of intelligence.

F4Jock said:

Once again "Kudos!!" Only problem is, well you nailed it, "the few." I was a field-grade commander in wartime. I have perhaps too little patience for what is a constantly demonstrated persistent lack of intelligence.

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I had similar experiences . . . however, I witnessed not necessarily a lack of intelligence as much a lack of connection to the reality of what the people at the tip of the spear were experiencing . . . if you are not in the same playpen you cannot tell someone how dirty the sand really is unless you are sitting in it as well . . .

George B said:

I had similar experiences . . . however, I witnessed not necessarily a lack of intelligence as much a lack of connection to the reality of what the people at the tip of the spear were experiencing . . . if you are not in the same playpen you cannot tell someone how dirty the sand really is unless you are sitting in it as well . . .

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But this connotes the ability to realize that one is indeed sitting in dirty sand! The problem may boil down to one of perception: How does one convince another to entertain intellectual input without succumbing o one's own prejudices?

F4Jock said:

But this connotes the ability to realize that one is indeed sitting in dirty sand! The problem may boil down to one of perception: How does one convince another to entertain intellectual input without succumbing o one's own prejudices?

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Hmmmm . . . human bias and prejudice is almost universal . . . objectivity is indeed rare and even when found is fleeting . . . it is like the weather . . . if you don't like it . . . all you have to do is wait and it will change . . . the real question is dose "Truth" exist and can people ever agree on what it is?

OK hiper... There is Bill Cooper. There is the whole chemtrail/geo engineer group. Note how these people have REALLY dire and important info but will only share it for a fee much like WITWATS. This also true of some 9/11 truthers like Phillip Marshall. Oh he has THE proof it was an inside job. And yet he doesn't release this earth shattering news, but we have to buy his book. MANY CT leaders like the above and Moncton and Icke profess the desire to save us but we have to buy their material or go to paid lectures. Incidentally these people do not allow people to question their beliefs on FB or online or any where.
I have shown how overblown such a bad and generic a phrase "humanity is a cult" is. You sound like the goth kids on South Park. If you want to be a nonconformist act like us, dress like us, and listen to our music.

JeffreyNotGeoffrey said:

OK hiper... There is Bill Cooper. There is the whole chemtrail/geo engineer group. Note how these people have REALLY dire and important info but will only share it for a fee much like WITWATS. This also true of some 9/11 truthers like Phillip Marshall. Oh he has THE proof it was an inside job. And yet he doesn't release this earth shattering news, but we have to buy his book. MANY CT leaders like the above and Moncton and Icke profess the desire to save us but we have to buy their material or go to paid lectures. Incidentally these people do not allow people to question their beliefs on FB or online or any where.
I have shown how overblown such a bad and generic a phrase "humanity is a cult" is. You sound like the goth kids on South Park. If you want to be a nonconformist act like us, dress like us, and listen to our music.

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Ah, this is the who is it?

Strange that. Bill Cooper wrote a book and dared to try to sell it. Proof positive then.

But then he was also 'telling it for nothing' on the radio.

Bill Cooper predicted 9/11 at no cost.

How much did you have to pay to find out about any of the above peoples beliefs? Nothing? Wow, got a bargain there then.

So all 'alternative authors' are cons. Acupuncture, meditation, exercise, diet,natural remedies that people have used for millenia... all junk, sicko nut jobs.

Life is not black and white my friend but an infinite variety of greys.

Oxymoron said:

Ah, this is the who is it?

Strange that. Bill Cooper wrote a book and dared to try to sell it. Proof positive then.

But then he was also 'telling it for nothing' on the radio.

Bill Cooper predicted 9/11 at no cost.

How much did you have to pay to find out about any of the above peoples beliefs? Nothing? Wow, got a bargain there then.

So all 'alternative authors' are cons. Acupuncture, meditation, exercise, diet,natural remedies that people have used for millenia... all junk, sicko nut jobs.

Life is not black and white my friend but an infinite variety of greys.

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Exactly what did Bill Cooper say predict about 911??

George B said:

Exactly what did Bill Cooper say predict about 911??

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Oxymoron said:

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Thanks. . . good guess . . . based on his conspiracy theories. . . . coincidence? probability? intuition? We may never know . . .

JeffreyNotGeoffrey said:

I have shown how overblown such a bad and generic a phrase "humanity is a cult" is. You sound like the goth kids on South Park. If you want to be a nonconformist act like us, dress like us, and listen to our music.

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Humanity is one big herd. All herds are by definition cults.
Why does that sound bad to you?

hiper said:

Humanity is one big herd. All herds are by definition cults.
Why does that sound bad to you?

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Seems like a blanket statement don't you think? Human culture is extremely diverse and divided, you seem to be lumping them all into a kind of cult. How exactly do you see that is so?

hiper said:

Humanity is one big herd. All herds are by definition cults.
Why does that sound bad to you?

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Can't find any definition of a herd as a cult. Perhaps you could enlighten?

George B said:

Exactly what did Bill Cooper say predict about 911??

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Please note that just because SOME of the stated alternate authors and predictions are true and free, not every one is and not all come to pass nor do they take special knowledge gleaned from sitting in a cave with Usama. Case-in-point: I "predicted 9/11" (Sort of) several years before Mr. Cooper. How? It wasn't rocket science. It just seemed logical to me, and I so stated several times, that some day someone would figure out how easily a commercial aircraft could be commandeered and flown into a large building. Hardly brilliant. Similar things had been done before on a smaller scale and there was the example (With religious overtones) of the Kamikaze in WWII. Of course I never thought that it would be done on the scale and with the coordination a d pre-planning of the actual event.

Of course I also thought that if I could think of this other people had and had already considered measures to prevent it......

You can also consider the "Blind Squirrel" explanation. People who propose alternative remedies and predictions don't usually just stick to one but use a kind of shotgun effect. There are so many such extant that by odds due to sheer weight of numbers, some have to come true. Thing is we tend to conveniently forget the ones that don't. Take Jeanne Dixon. Made her bones over JFK. Was otherwise not very good at prognosticating but who points that out?

If you want to read a well-researched site that investigates natural remedies try Supplement Geek.

Dan Wilson said:

Seems like a blanket statement don't you think? Human culture is extremely diverse and divided, you seem to be lumping them all into a kind of cult. How exactly do you see that is so?

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F4Jock said:

Can't find any definition of a herd as a cult. Perhaps you could enlighten?

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Every herd on this planet has it's own unique 'cult-like' style of living on this planet.
If we look at the heaven's gate group of people one of the first words many if not all think of is 'cult'.
What is actually happening is we are labeling them 'different from us'.
If an alien race were to look at humanity they would see humanity and the 'cult of being human'.
Make sense?

hiper said:

Every herd on this planet has it's own unique 'cult-like' style of living on this planet.
If we look at the heaven's gate group of people one of the first words many if not all think of is 'cult'.
What is actually happening is we are labeling them 'different from us'.
If an alien race were to look at humanity they would see humanity and the 'cult of being human'.
Make sense?

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I'll agree that a cult can be a herd but I contend that a herd is not necessarily a cult. Being human is a state, not a cult.

A necessary ingredient to qualify for cult-like behaviour is the mechanism by which outsiders are demonised as either victims or agents, so any thing they say that contradicts the beliefs within the cult can be dismissed. eg, satan has fooled you, demons have possessed you, you're an alien walk-in, you're sheeple, you're a shill, you worship the government.

Pete Tar said:

A necessary ingredient to qualify for cult-like behaviour is the mechanism by which outsiders are demonised as either victims or agents, so any thing they say that contradicts the beliefs within the cult can be dismissed. eg, satan has fooled you, demons have possessed you, you're an alien walk-in, you're sheeple, you're a shill, you worship the government.

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Oh . . . you mean like Democrats and Republicans!!

Sometimes yes. The Democrats that call ALL Republicans, 'repukes' or the Republicans that brand ALL Democrats as 'communists or socialists' or liberals as 'pigs that need to be shot'. Those are examples of a 'cult like behavior', However, that is NOT all of either of that group.

Take 2 members of the Tea Party I know somewhat. My Friend Danielle and a certain poster here. Danielle and I will often agree on many things. She is no fan of our current President, but she does not attack him for breathing. She doesn't attack his wife or children either. She is a member of the Tea Party, but doesn't exhibit any 'cult behavior'. She reads a wide variety of sources, not just a couple. The same cannot be said about a certain poster here.

Conspiracy theory and religion?! That's as close to an immovable object as you're ever likely to get. I guess they can bypass the clamour for evidence...."How do I know it's a conspiracy?....God told me".

So TRUE.

Melbury's Brick said:

Conspiracy theory and religion?! That's as close to an immovable object as you're ever likely to get. I guess they can bypass the clamour for evidence...."How do I know it's a conspiracy?....God told me".

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People have been conspiring since the beginning of time...
I don't understand why it's such a nasty word to you 'official conspiracy' guys.

Well what a surprise. The Metabunk Debunker Conspiracy Theory, (That Boston bombers acted because of conspiracy theorists), is debunked:

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/boston-bombing-suspect-cites-iraq-afghanistan-wars-as

Dzhokhar Tsarvaev, the 19-year-old suspected Boston marathon bomber, cited the U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past decade as motive for carrying out the attack along with his brother, Tamerlan, U.S. officials told the Washington Post on Tuesday.

But I suppose he could just be saying that to protect the conspiracy theorists from blame...