The psychology of the CT believers

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
An interesting study from 1994 into "Belief in Conspiracy Theories":

http://crab.rutgers.edu/~goertzel/CONSPIRE.doc


In another study:

http://websites.psychology.uwa.edu....yetalPsychScienceinPressClimateConspiracy.pdf


There is a correlation between rejecting Global Warming (and science in general) and CT's
 
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scombrid

Senior Member.
BLIZZARD 2013 CHARLOTTE NEMO JUICED

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNoUW4wb9zU


Overnight prior to dawn 02/07 there was heavy aerosols laid out through out the night. The dawn of morning had a very apparent dispersed chemtrail haze. The aerosoling continued till approx 1:00PM . At approx 1:00-1:30 it became evident that aerosol was reacting to directed energy. By 2:00 PM the change had become quite noticeable with waves in the sky, By 2:30 peak energy was reached . My bet is this will likely intensify the blizzards wind and snowfall. This event similar in that it involved two weather patterns one from SW & one from Great Lakes area however directed energy was running from different direction: Prior to Hurricane Sandy NNW-SSE. Prior to Blizzard event ran from SSW-NNE.

This youtuber is describing classic cyclogenesis, or formation of a winter storm, occurring over the east coast when the polar and sub-tropical jet streams phase together. Such an event typically involves merging of two weather systems, one from the south and one from the north, often a surface low along the gulf coast and trough moving down across the great lakes. The storm of the century that occurred in 1993 is a classic and much studied event (different storm track and higher intensity than the recent blizzard but similar atmospheric dynamics). The cloud types that he calls aerosols (cirrus and cirrostatus and embedded contrail cirrus) are and always have been common ahead of such storm systems as are the wavy clouds (undulating mid-level clouds) that he attributes to "aerosol was reacting to directed energy". Before we had satellites, such clouds were a forecasting tool because they were often a harbinger of approaching weather (although they don't often offer good clues as to the likely intensity of the oncoming weather as such clouds occur with simple weak waves of low pressure like "clipper" systems that may only bring showers or flurries). The high cirrus clouds are followed by progressively lower cloud types from cirrus to altocumulus and altostratus to stratus and eventually nimbostratus. When cyclogenesis is very intense you'll get cumulus and cumulonimbus embedded in the system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Storm_of_the_Century

The extratropical area of low pressure formed in Mexico and moved eastward into the Gulf of Mexico along a stationary front, which developed thunderstorm activity near its center. A strong shortwave trough in the southern branch of the polar jet stream accelerated the strengthening of the surface low. As the area of low pressure moved through the central Gulf of Mexico, a shortwave trough in the northern branch of the jet stream phased with the system in the southern stream, which continued significant strengthening of the surface low.

The 1993 superstorm went on to pummel the entire east coast with hurricane force winds and snow from Pensacola to Nova Scotia.

Another historic east coast winter storm: Ash Wednesday Storm in 1962:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Wednesday_Storm_of_1962

Combination of atmospheric conditionsThe massive storm was caused by an unusual combination of three pressure areas, combined with atmospheric conditions of the Spring equinox which normally cause exceptionally high tides. The storm stalled in the mid-Atlantic for almost three days, pounding coastal areas with continuous rain, high winds, and tidal surges, and dumping large quantities of snow inland for several hundred miles.

How would the Chemtrail/HAARP believers react if such a storm occurred this year?



My point is that such clouds have always occurred in association with approaching weather but this particular youtuber and many other chemtrail believers seem convinced that these clouds are a recent and unnatural type that are PROOF of weather control in action and that the storms that are associated with them are unprecedented. It is as if, in spite of their self declared and self assured "awareness", they have no memory of past events such as the March 1993 superstorm that affected the entire east coast or the 1962 Ash Wednesday Storm. All humans are succeptible to selective memory and confirmation bias but what predisposes some people to carry it to this extreme?
 
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Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
All humans are succeptible to selective memory and confirmation bias but what predisposes some people to carry it to this extreme?
As you say, we are predisposed to the bias. A sustained propaganda campaign in multiple media venues and over the internet for more than a decade has advanced this hoax.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
http://websites.psychology.uwa.edu....yetalPsychScienceinPressClimateConspiracy.pdf

A study into "Motivated rejection of science"


http://www.shapingtomorrowsworld.org/news.php?p=2&t=58&&n=188

[h=1]The involvement of conspiracist ideation in science denial[/h]What seems to be the case, as others may have already noted, is that the die-hard conspiracy theorist, in order to continue to hold on to their stated beliefs, will reject science and scientists as untrustworthy.

Similarly (in my own humble opinion) these same people reject media sources (other than their conspiracy blogs) as being untrustworthy.

When I say 'untrustworthy', you can substitute the phrase "Part of the conspiracy". It seems that when these people are faced with any evidence that does not fit in with their mind-set, they automatically reject that evidence as flawed or disinformation....
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
It seems that when these people are faced with any evidence that does not fit in with their mind-set, they automatically reject that evidence as flawed or disinformation.
It seems to work with ID, 911, chemtrails, GW denial and alternative medicine too. What surprises me is how it manifests itself in the most ordinary individuals. I think it springs from not including Logic instruction in primary education, while permitting religious education to minors. Fifty years after reversing the above, our society will begin to benefit. If it survives that long.
 

Rico

Senior Member.
It seems to work with ID, 911, chemtrails, GW denial and alternative medicine too. What surprises me is how it manifests itself in the most ordinary individuals. I think it springs from not including Logic instruction in primary education, while permitting religious education to minors. Fifty years after reversing the above, our society will begin to benefit. If it survives that long.

I'd like to throw the word "critical thinking" out there, which involves reasoning and the evaluating of information gathered. The thing that seems lacking about some of these people is that they fail to investigate evidence. They do try to collect evidence, but they do not weigh the relevance, nor the importance, of such evidence in the context of whatever problem they are trying to explain. In lacking to do so, they accept and reject evidence through other means, such as feelings, faith, and authority (i.e., ex military member thinks it's true, thus it must be true).
 

RolandD

Active Member
http://websites.psychology.uwa.edu....yetalPsychScienceinPressClimateConspiracy.pdf

A study into "Motivated rejection of science"


http://www.shapingtomorrowsworld.org/news.php?p=2&t=58&&n=188

The involvement of conspiracist ideation in science denial

What seems to be the case, as others may have already noted, is that the die-hard conspiracy theorist, in order to continue to hold on to their stated beliefs, will reject science and scientists as untrustworthy.

Similarly (in my own humble opinion) these same people reject media sources (other than their conspiracy blogs) as being untrustworthy.

When I say 'untrustworthy', you can substitute the phrase "Part of the conspiracy". It seems that when these people are faced with any evidence that does not fit in with their mind-set, they automatically reject that evidence as flawed or disinformation....

My favorite comment from the second link above:

Sylvs at 13:38 PM on 15 February, 2013
Can you write a paper about why conspiracy theorists seem to write much longer posts than everyone else?
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
My favorite comment from the second link above:

This one, a response to a conspiracy theorist theorizing about the reviewers of the paper is my favorite.
The CT commenter is so blinded that he falls right into the mold and sets hmself up as confirmation of the paper's hypothesis:
http://www.shapingtomorrowsworld.org/news.php?p=2&t=58&&n=188#2944

Scott, I have to tell you that you and your ilk are pure gold..... Now here you are, alleging further conspiracy to subvert the peer review process. You can't help yourself can you? You are so oblivious that you can't even see how deluded you are. Keep it up. I predict a starring role for you in the fourth paper.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I have seen this happening in relation to the oil spill. There are those that are SURE that the well is still leaking. The Coast Guard, along with officials from multiple states have checked the well head area several times with an ROV. No LEAK, but the 'true believers' are now saying that BP 'owns' the Coast Guard, and the states and ALL the researchers. The ROV footage is public, but they will insist that it has been altered.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
It seems to work with ID, 911, chemtrails, GW denial and alternative medicine too. What surprises me is how it manifests itself in the most ordinary individuals. I think it springs from not including Logic instruction in primary education, while permitting religious education to minors. Fifty years after reversing the above, our society will begin to benefit. If it survives that long.

I find the lack of Logic Instruction and Critical Thinking astounding especially when by apparently intelligent people. It was raised to me by a Chemtrailer about Big Pharma conspiracies and chemo and radiology do not work for cancer, and cancer treatment is made up purely for profit. He set out an argument straight out of the Natural News. However if at any stage he would have decided to take a critical appraisal he would have seen the lack of logic. According to Facebook he lives 20 miles from me yet he fails to understand that we have a socialised system of healthcare which is totally the opposite of a system that allows dominance by pharmaceutical companies. I contacted him with details of how the NHS procure drugs etc but to no avail.

Now the interesting thing is with someone who was deluded they would take the information and wrap it around to suit their reality, and if needs be adjust their concept of reality to take account of that information However this chap chooses to just ignore the material as it is a danger to his entire belief system. To accept it would then logically bring his other CTs in question. That lack of reasoning seems to be the key.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
I find the lack of Logic Instruction and Critical Thinking astounding especially when by apparently intelligent people..


I have wondered why it is that critical thinking skills and how to distinguish a valid argument from a fallacious argument are not a mandatory part of the the curriculum prior to college. Has there ever been an effort to make this part of the required coursework? If so, which parties had argued against it? (If I had to guess, I would think the same people who advocate including 'intelligent design' would be against the instruction of critical thinking skills)

While I am asking somewhat rhetorical questions.... I have to question the sincerity of the chemtrail theorists that venture outdoors without wearing a gas mask (other than for show at one of their protests)! We have seen people that suffer from germaphobia that truly live in fear of contamination and germs who always wear one of those surgical masks when they go outside of the house, but I have not seen or heard of a single one of these chemtrail 'believers' that takes such sensible precautions based upon what they say is being sprayed upon them. This is just one more reason that I question the sincerity of many of the people that push the chemtrail BS.



Seeing as it is Presidents' Day......


"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." --Thomas Jefferson to William C. Jarvis, 1820. ME 15:278
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I have wondered why it is that critical thinking skills and how to distinguish a valid argument from a fallacious argument are not a mandatory part of the the curriculum prior to college. Has there ever been an effort to make this part of the required coursework? If so, which parties had argued against it? (If I had to guess, I would think the same people who advocate including 'intelligent design' would be against the instruction of critical thinking skills)

That would be Texas Republicans, see their OFFICIAL 2012 platform:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/texasgop_pre/assets/original/2012Platform_Final.pdf
Critical thinking does not sit well with organized religion. But plenty of schools do teach it.

http://www.criticalthinking.com/all-abilities/core_curriculum.html

And there's organizations that promote it:
http://www.p21.org/overview/skills-framework/260

There's an aspect of many conspiracy theories that says that schools are simply there to produce useful workers for the elite, so all curricula are suspect. "Critical Thinking" could be viewed as newspeak for "become unthinking slaves to the man by trusting his 'science'". Look at the founders of p21.org - big business, but big business that needs clever people. Very suspicious if you are the suspicious type.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
One sides doesn't trust 'big government', the other doesn't trust 'big business' and a third group doesn't trust either one.

My dad was a skeptic, and he never finished HS (not uncommon back in those days, however) but he had MAJOR critical thinking skills. He was a pharmacist, (he apprenticed to learn), but he read and considered. When he found out, that they were having a baby, he decided that the entire house needed to be repainted, since he was not sure that a lead free paint had been used. It was a brand new house and he bought lead free paint and repainted it ALL, that was 1950. He had already spotted a link between lead paint and health. Later, I remember my mom liking the pain reliever, Anacin. It had aspirin, caffeine and a third ingredient, at that time. My dad, read up and found out that that 3rd ingredient had some problem. He got her to switch to Bufferin, at least 5-6 months before the government ordered that ingredient taken out of Anacin.

He was a smart man
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Here's a good example of a particular type of Conspiracy Theorist - one who distrusts science partly because it's against his religion:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread926475/pg1#pid15948009
There's not a lot you can do with a person like that.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
Here we have some fellow posting about chemtrails on Craigslist with an outright request for people to give him things (money and a car) so he can get the word out. The plea for people to give him things was made after he made a pitch for both of the " .... are they Spraying" videos. Not too difficult to figure out this fellows motivation.


$Wanted.JPG
 

PCWilliams

Senior Member.
An interesting exchange between a person asking for psychological help wth her husband's CT problems. The follow ups become clear that her question became a defense of CT'ers by CT'ers.Even though the discusson begins to degenerate, a few seem reasonable.
Page 1
http://www.wellsphere.com/schizophr...iracy-theories-a-sign-of-schizophrenia/897991
Page 2
http://www.wellsphere.com/forumTopi...ity=schizophrenia&noRedirect=true&pageIndex=1

Wow. This poor lady is reaching out for help with her husbands paranoid, uncharacteristic behavior and the CT'ers are telling her HE is the normal one who has become enlightened. I tried to send her a message but you have to sign up to use their messaging system. :cool:
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
An interesting exchange between a person asking for psychological help wth her husband's CT problems. The follow ups become clear that her question became a defense of CT'ers by CT'ers.Even though the discusson begins to degenerate, a few seem reasonable.
Page 1
http://www.wellsphere.com/schizophr...iracy-theories-a-sign-of-schizophrenia/897991
Page 2
http://www.wellsphere.com/forumTopi...ity=schizophrenia&noRedirect=true&pageIndex=1

That was one of the most disturbing things I have read and thanks for posting. One wonders what the motivation is to troll a health support site. Yes, I understand that a CTer has the need and group desire to defend their beliefs, but to do that at the sacrifice of someones wellbeing is just devilish. I am not able to get about that well at the moment and my daughter attended a lecture for me by a chap called Adrian Furnham. He was talking about a conspiracy theory been a living thing and its believers just feed it now and again. It really was quite fascinating but I think that it detracts from the real human cost that there can be to some people and relationships.

When I get the chance I will drop her a line with some links to support groups that will not allow such a conflagration to occur.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
...I am not able to get about that well at the moment and my daughter attended a lecture for me by a chap called Adrian Furnham. He was talking about a conspiracy theory been a living thing and its believers just feed it now and again...

It fits the definition of a meme which is capable of evolution - replication with variation and selection.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
can someone explain me this please? its a diagram showing that the planes dont have a visible gap or something that they normally would with contrails, hence diagrams A, B and D show aerosol emissions, please read what it says on the picture and can anyone disprove this? ive only started reading about chemtrails a couple of weeks ago but am amazed how much i am able to find out and truly do hope that this is not a conspiracy against us and that you can prove me very wrong.

http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/01...als-jets-are-spraying-aerosols-not-contrails/
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
can someone explain me this please? its a diagram showing that the planes dont have a visible gap or something that they normally would with contrails, hence diagrams A, B and D show aerosol emissions, please read what it says on the picture and can anyone disprove this? ive only started reading about chemtrails a couple of weeks ago but am amazed how much i am able to find out and truly do hope that this is not a conspiracy against us and that you can prove me very wrong.

http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/01...als-jets-are-spraying-aerosols-not-contrails/

Contrail gap length varies quite a bit with various factors.

http://contrailscience.com/how-big-is-the-gap-between-contrails-and-engines/
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
can someone explain me this please? its a diagram showing that the planes dont have a visible gap or something that they normally would with contrails, hence diagrams A, B and D show aerosol emissions, please read what it says on the picture and can anyone disprove this? ive only started reading about chemtrails a couple of weeks ago but am amazed how much i am able to find out and truly do hope that this is not a conspiracy against us and that you can prove me very wrong.
The engines do still have a very short gap, and then the trail shows a progression in intensity which indicates condensing steam, and not some sort of added powder. One can also see that it emanates from the central core of the engine, and not its surrounding ring. This is the part of the engine which could never tolerate the passage of any sort of solid material. That backs up the idea that what you're looking at is condensing steam.

The trail normally cools over a hundred feet or so down to temperatures well below zero. If the ambient temperature is colder than normal, or if the air is more saturated with moisture at that level, then this distance shortens. As we don't know either ambient temperature or humidity at that point in time, then all that can be said is that the video shows signs of both extreme cold and great humidity.

It would have helped if the cameraman had zoomed out to show us how the trail developed over the next minute. Had he done so, then you would have seen a huge billowing trail like this:

Screen Shot 2013-03-05 at 11.26.55.png

The "third" trail is from the galley (kitchen) drain. (Not in the above picture). It has to be released from a pressurized cabin... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .. .. .. .. .. . . . . .
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Psychology of CT believers?

I read this comment last night on a closed thread:

Nobody wants any of this to happen, but if any footage is proven staged then the whole thing is staged.

When I used to post on a creationism vs evolution message board, the biggest gun the creationists had was that if the creation story was fake, the whole Bible falls like a house of cards, and Jesus didn't rise from the dead. Apparently CTers belong to a similar religion.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
hi i have a question. this looks slghtly suspicious, its a photo of one of the supposed chemtrail planes and some writing is blurry something says hazmat but you cant see the rest.

http://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/

on this site they say its a flight testing airplane and that the barrels test water, but on another photo you can see upclose where it says hazmat, on the top it also says sprayer 05 (picture below)


https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=...teriorofchemtrailsprayer11feb08.shtml;700;663

why would a plane say that if it only had water in their barrels?
amazing how this chemtrail conspiracy theory was and how many stories associated with it there are

thanks.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
hi i have a question. this looks slghtly suspicious, its a photo of one of the supposed chemtrail planes and some writing is blurry something says hazmat but you cant see the rest.

http://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/

on this site they say its a flight testing airplane and that the barrels test water, but on another photo you can see upclose where it says hazmat, on the top it also says sprayer 05 (picture below)


https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=chemtrail+plane+inside&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43148975,d.d2k&biw=1360&bih=577&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=6Fc2Uaq_DcTJPJ7kgdgE#imgrc=RTggadPtNhyBoM%3A%3BuKL1KltnQflWFM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Feducate-yourself.lege.net%252Fcn%252Finside%252520chemtrail%252520plane%252520crop%252520sprayer%252520wall%252520marking700w.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Feducate-yourself.lege.net%252Fcn%252Finteriorofchemtrailsprayer11feb08.shtml%3B700%3B663

why would a plane say that if it only had water in their barrels?
amazing how this chemtrail conspiracy theory was and how many stories associated with it there are

thanks.

It's a fake photo. See:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/661-Debunked-Chemtrail-Plane-Interior-(Ballast-Barrels)

and the original:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boeing/Boeing-777-240-LR/0855967/L/
 
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David Fraser

Senior Member.
I was going to start a separate thread relating to this, but I will put it here for now. I had an interesting chat the other day with reference to chemtrails and the lack of the involvement of any environmental group like Greenpeace. The person involved provided me a link which has a quote from Patrick Moore, formerly of Greenpeace.

http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2012/12...ipcc-revealed-as-basis-for-chemtrails-denial/

Now I know that Patrick Moore and Greenpeace fell out some time ago, and having read his book the quote is entirely taken out of context. I challenged the view that Patrick Moore would not be a reliable source to quote for chemtailers as he is Pro GMO and potentially pro NWO if you believe that thing and I provided the following link with a quote.

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17410...Rice-which-can-eliminate-vitamin-A-deficiency

Unfortunately I did not have time to get a screenshot, but essentially rather than accept that the original argument was flawed or open to criticism she was more willing to accept that Greenpeace was pro-chemtrails yet still anti-GMO. Now given the content of many Youtube videos these policies would be diametrically opposed to each other, but a more acceptable answer than Greenpeace is not in on it. Anywho I was blocked extremely quickly after that but it does highlight some issue with reasoning, even if at a group level.
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
The Power of Unreason


http://www.academia.edu/1023671/The_Power_of_Unreason_Conspiracy_Theories_Extremism_and_Counter-Terrorism


(excerpt)
"In-group/out-group dynamics and demonizing the outsiders. The first multiplier relates to the way conspiracy theories demonize outsiders. Accusing outsiders of perpetrating nefarious conspiracies hardens a sense of identity and collective minority against outsiders. It inspires a tendency to overestimate external scrutiny of the group and attribute everyone else’s behavior to it. This is called‘sinister attribution error’ or ‘paranoid cognition’ in which a small close-knit group of co-believers is locked in an existential struggle with an ‘out-group’, consisting of everyone else.
74
It is possible that through this self-aggrandizing siege mentality,conspiracy theories also reinforce a process called group polarization Groups acting in these conditions of self-imposed exile end up thinking and doing things that group members would never think or do on their own: group-think.
75
Like-minded people, after discussing, confirming and validating each other’s position, all end up taking a more extreme position than before they started to talk.This phenomenon has been found in hundreds of studies.
"
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Examples of advocacy groups headed towards extremism can already be found. It could come about when the membership becomes frustrated, and considers taking "actions".

These might be benign, or even amusing. Engaging in a risque advertising program:

PETA-poster-equates-pubic-hair-with-fur.jpg

If ordinary protests don't work, the ante gets upped by doing something slightly more than standing on a corner:

chaining yourself up in a public place

forest.jpg

Flinging blood on a store window:

OWS-Bloody-Window1.jpg

Walking around smeared with blood:
071115_peta_wide-horizontal.jpg

When these tactics don't achieve the desired results, sometimes these groups proceed into more 'direct' actions, usually starting with vandalism or arson.

Individual actors, influenced by the same memes as the groups doing smaller actions, usually perpetrate the more extreme cases, such as the Unabomber or Timothy Mcveigh.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
And while PETA does that, they slaughter pets at their shelter. That just goes to show that what folks SAY they are for and what they are really for are not the same thing.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
And while PETA does that, they slaughter pets at their shelter.
But when they euthanize, they do it humanely.

A hothead on Russ Tanner's Global Skywatch week before last told Dane Wigington, he liked it when Dane used the word "execute".
Wigington was talking about his master plan, whatever that is, not execution of people, but it was clear enough the caller wanted more direct action! They both sort of giggled. "heh-heh-heh"
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
And while PETA does that, they slaughter pets at their shelter. That just goes to show that what folks SAY they are for and what they are really for are not the same thing.

I don't think that argument is really one - a practical solution to the suffering caused by too many neglected and abused animals is euthanization, as is practised by veterinarians. It's a shame humans aren't offered the same option.
It would be nice if large farms could be put aside to giving them the space to socialise and roam though, I'm sure every damaged animal has the chance of finding happiness if given the right environment. (humans included in that).
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Pete, PETA actively opposes the No Kill movement, they oppose trap/neuter/release for feral cat colonies. They support the killing of all pit bulls and pit mixes. They do not even attempt to find homes for the animals released to them. Even healthy, adoptable puppies and kittens are killed within hours. They have even went to other shelters and told them that they would help find homes for some of their animals and were given animals for the purpose of helping them find homes. Those animals were killed within minutes, in a mobile van. They do not just kill animals that are sick or unplaceable, they have a higher kill rate than most city pounds, many years their kill rate is the highest in the state of Virginia.

PETA doesn't approve of the ownership of any animal by people, to them it is slavery. That even includes seeing eye dogs.

I have a blind friend that was accosted by PETA folks when he was training with his dog. I thought he had just ran across a over zealous follower. It turns out that many others have also. I got to reading some of what their president has to say and I got a real education in what PETA is.

They oppose T/N/R because the cats will not be properly taken care of, but they oppose the ownership of cats (and other animals) because they are not living naturally. HUH? was my thought.

Anyway off one of my BIG soapboxes.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Yikes. That's a very extreme version of animal rights. I'm sure it makes sense once you've been 'converted'.
http://www.petakillsanimals.com/trial/
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
They have left the domain of being reasonable. And their supports ignore the facts and maintain that they only kill sick and unadoptable animals.

Some of their followers have went into dog shows and 'freed' the dogs from their 'cages' (crates). Then they held doors open and tried to get the dogs to leave the building. Even into NYC traffic!
 
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Spongebob How to prove Chemtrails don`t exist (via ICCTOI) . . . the believers' dilemma???? Contrails and Chemtrails 29
Mick West A Challenge to Chemtrail Believers - Explain this 1969 Issue of Popular Science Contrails and Chemtrails 8
Mick West Former believers, and lessons learned Escaping The Rabbit Hole 164
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