Synchronicity - What's your experience of it?

[Charlie Wiser]

I spend all day writing (usually fiction) or editing and reading while listening to podcasts (often book reviews, although not in my genre, or philosophy-type channels). It seems like at least once a day, sometimes multiple times in one hour, I will type or read a word at the same time as the podcaster says the word.

It's a freaky feeling when it happens, especially when the word is unusual. I ended up asking ChatGPT what the likelihood was of this happening. ChatGPT calculated that it would happen at about the rate that it actually happens to me, which was comforting. But it's still freaky every time it happens.

 

[Giddierone]

I spend all day writing (usually fiction) or editing and reading while listening to podcasts (often book reviews, although not in my genre, or philosophy-type channels). It seems like at least once a day, sometimes multiple times in one hour, I will type or read a word at the same time as the podcaster says the word.

It's a freaky feeling when it happens, especially when the word is unusual. I ended up asking ChatGPT what the likelihood was of this happening. ChatGPT calculated that it would happen at about the rate that it actually happens to me, which was comforting. But it's still freaky every time it happens.

This reminds me of that time Michael Huntington noticed how Garry Nolan and Rael (Claude Vorilhon) both say the same word "hyperbolic" in their respective TV shows, while also looking similar (eyebrows, mouth shape), and being in a similarly-coloured room.

 

[Mendel]

Here's a speculation: perhaps someone heard the word "exegesis" but ignored it as "just another term I don't understand. I'll look it up some day", and only became aware of its use AFTER having looked up the definition. Then it's not a rare thing that turned up again shortly afterwards, but a common thing, and the only difference is that the person is now tuned in to it.

Where I worked, we had a number of acres of woods around the building, and some of us would go out for lunchtime walks. I'd always thought of wildflowers in my non-botanical mind as simply "those little white (yellow, pink, purple) things", but then several of us bought field guides and decided to learn what they all were. All of a sudden I saw and identified things everywhere, things by the side of the road that would not have registered in my conscious mind at all until after I started to study the subject.

(I attribute that interest to an older man in the company, who knew the names of things in Latin and his native Estonian, but not in English!)

I think it's more to do with booting yourself into a new area of knowledge that comes with new jargon and new insights.
E.g. if you've been watching religious videos and then venture into theology, suddenly theological jargon (like "exegesis") comes up. A theologist might see the word several times each day because it's really not rare, but someone new to the field may take more note of it. Like, you wouldn't marvel at seeing 5 different traffic lights on the same day, but a backwoods country bumpkin might at 2. There's a certain threshold of synchronicity where it ceases to be special.
So if you move from a world with no X to a world with abundant X, then there may be a moment where you see a lot of X but still wonder at it: be it greek jargon, traffic lights, or wildflowers.

 

[NorCal Dave]

ChatGPT calculated that it would happen at about the rate that it actually happens to me, which was comforting. But it's still freaky every time it happens.

Yeah, but ChatGPT just tells you what you want to hear. In this case, a false sense of comfort.

 

[Charlie Wiser]

Yeah, but ChatGPT just tells you what you want to hear. In this case, a false sense of comfort.

It showed me its calculations based on the number of words I hear and write per day, the number of words I hear per the number written (since speech is faster), with a 0.5sec time delay in which I would "decide" the words happened at the same time, and the number of words regularly used in English (30K, I think).

It calculated I would hear and write the same word 0.5 times per day, which is about right. It feels like more than that to me because it happens in clusters, but of course then there are days when it doesn't happen at all.

 

[deirdre]

I spend all day writing (usually fiction) or editing and reading while listening to podcasts (often book reviews, although not in my genre, or philosophy-type channels). It seems like at least once a day, sometimes multiple times in one hour, I will type or read a word at the same time as the podcaster says the word.

It's a freaky feeling when it happens, especially when the word is unusual. I ended up asking ChatGPT what the likelihood was of this happening. ChatGPT calculated that it would happen at about the rate that it actually happens to me, which was comforting. But it's still freaky every time it happens.

it's freaky that you can write or read and listen simultaneously. maybe what is happening is your mind is kinda predicting what they will say next? and that influences the words you are choosing?

kinda fascinating and very cool. brain multitasking!
its never happened to me, but i cant read or write with any concentration unless i mute whatever is in the background

 

[Charlie Wiser]

it's freaky that you can write or read and listen simultaneously. maybe what is happening is your mind is kinda predicting what they will say next? and that influences the words you are choosing?

kinda fascinating and very cool. brain multitasking!
its never happened to me, but i cant read or write with any concentration unless i mute whatever is in the background

When I'm doing creative writing (actually putting paragraphs to the page) I prefer to listen to music, but when I'm making research notes, or outlining or editing, I listen to podcasts.

One reason the "synchronicity" struck me as odd is that all of the above relates to fiction but a lot of what I listen to has nothing to do with fiction (strike that... I listen to stuff about the Bible sometimes). So the subject matter doesn't overlap but unusual words sometimes do. The other day it was "chaos", for example, which is a common enough word but not something most of us say very often. These words feel random to me so the synchronicity stands out (compared to, for example, "said" or "because" - which I don't take notice of when they align).

Anyway, while I never thought there were supernatural elements at work, it was interesting to see a calculation that aligned with mundane reality.

 

[deirdre]

Anyway, while I never thought there were supernatural elements at work, it was interesting to see a calculation that aligned with mundane reality.

you told the chatgpt calculator to omit common words from it's calculation?

 

[Herfules]

As us gamblers say, million-to-one shots happen every day. No big deal.

The more you understand about probability, the more you wonder why these unlikely coincidences don't happen more often than they do.

 

[Charlie Wiser]

you told the chatgpt calculator to omit common words from it's calculation?

Actually, no. I just did that - asked it to exclude the top 100 words (I asked for the list - they are articles, conjunctions, prepositions, pronouns, common verbs) which ChatGPT tells me account for 50% of spoken & written English. The recalculation is 1/15000 words will align, or 0.2/day.

This is all extremely approximate since I don't know how many words I listen to or type/read a day, or keep track of the matches. I asked ChatGPT about it because I was curious if the odds were something like once a month versus once a day. The former would've made me believe in the synchronicity jinn, whereas it turned out to be the latter.

 

[deirdre]

The former would've made me believe in the synchronicity jinn, whereas it turned out to be the latter.

i think you'd need to omit more of the common words. but lets say its 1x every 2.5 weeks..and youre doing 1 every 3 days. i believe in synchronicity, but in this case i'm more prone to think you are familiar with the types of things you listen to and it's subliminally effecting your writing choices. ie. more cool brain stuff, than actual synchronicity.

like those magician guys who can tell you "you wrote down "red hammer". "

 

[Charlie Wiser]

i think you'd need to omit more of the common words. but lets say its 1x every 2.5 weeks..and youre doing 1 every 3 days. i believe in synchronicity, but in this case i'm more prone to think you are familiar with the types of things you listen to and it's subliminally effecting your writing choices. ie. more cool brain stuff, than actual synchronicity.

like those magician guys who can tell you "you wrote down "red hammer". "

No, because this is through reading (while editing/proofing) or copying research notes, not writing from scratch. That's what makes it seem remarkable when it happens.

I don't write the incidents down, so I'm probably overestimating (in retrospect) how often it happens. Also, what I'm reading/editing vs listening to may be closer in vocabulary than random chance. I'm not listening to highly scientific things, or low-brow sit coms, or some other specialized language that would statistically decrease the expected matches. It's all just basic modern English. (I don't believe in synchronicity in terms of magic, so the calculations are in the ballpark of what I'd expect.)

 

[NoParty]

Once upon a time...early '80s, I was standing in line for Space Mountain in Anaheim.
My girlfriend (still a friend, btw) asked me: "Doesn't your cousin Chris live in LA?"
I chuckled at the question, since the LA metroplex had maybe 8 million people, even back then,
so I thought it was funny that she was kind of suggesting that we might see him that day at Disneyland.

I told her the question reminded me of being in "Hawaiʻi" & having folks ask:
"Oh, you're from San Diego? Do you know Ricky Barnes?" which seemed hilarious to me,
as San Diego County had some 2 million people. I never once knew whatever person I was asked about.

The Space Mountain line conversation soon turned to other things, and I totally forgot about this.

We went on the ride, had a great time, and as we were walking out the exit,
we ran into my cousin Chris! I was shocked! How in the world could she have "predicted" such a thing?

I thought that that was really something, and shared the story with quite a few friends, over the years.

Many years later, she casually mentioned that she had thought she had seen Chris ahead of us in the line...
but, for whatever reason (nothing intentionally deceptive, I don't think) just never mentioned that little detail.

 

[GM4AJK]

Many years later, she casually mentioned that she had thought she had seen Chris ahead of us in the line...
but, for whatever reason (nothing intentionally deceptive, I don't think) just never mentioned that little detail.

When the fog of the LIZ lifts, it's always nothing remarkable

 

[Ann K]

We went on the ride, had a great time, and as we were walking out the exit,
we ran into my cousin Chris! I was shocked! How in the world could she have "predicted" such a thing?

I was once out painting landscapes with a friend, both of us looking scruffy in paint-splattered clothing. At mid-day we discussed lunch, and she suggested going to a popular buffet. I laughed and said how out of place we'd look beside the usual crowd of big hat wearing church ladies dressed to the nines. She said that was OK, nobody we knew would be there anyway. We got in line - and found ourselves to be immediately behind her coworker, the two of them being the only two people in a small office. And yes, the other woman had a stunning dress and coat, and a BIG hat.

 

[FatPhil]

This happened the other day during our dinner-time quizzing (context, it's "the backwards round"):
http://fatphil.org/tmp/spooky_bush_sm.mp4

 

[deirdre]

so I thought it was funny that she was kind of suggesting that we might see him that day at Disneyland.

just never mentioned that little detail.

if you thought she was suggesting you might see him at disney land from that question, despite her allegedly leaving out that detail.. perhaps youre the one who is psychic.

 

[GM4AJK]

This happened the other day during our dinner-time quizzing (context, it's "the backwards round"):
http://fatphil.org/tmp/spooky_bush_sm.mp4

before seen never I've format quiz interesting an that's

 

[Todd Feinman]

Here's a speculation: perhaps someone heard the word "exegesis" but ignored it as "just another term I don't understand. I'll look it up some day", and only became aware of its use AFTER having looked up the definition. Then it's not a rare thing that turned up again shortly afterwards, but a common thing, and the only difference is that the person is now tuned in to it.

Where I worked, we had a number of acres of woods around the building, and some of us would go out for lunchtime walks. I'd always thought of wildflowers in my non-botanical mind as simply "those little white (yellow, pink, purple) things", but then several of us bought field guides and decided to learn what they all were. All of a sudden I saw and identified things everywhere, things by the side of the road that would not have registered in my conscious mind at all until after I started to study the subject.

(I attribute that interest to an older man in the company, who knew the names of things in Latin and his native Estonian, but not in English!)

I love it.

 

[Todd Feinman]

Just remembered something! This is fun. Actually happened not long ago. I had printed off a picture of a tassel-eared red squirrel, to make a small poster that read "Squirrel for President". I made the same squirrel picture my screensaver I kept joking to my colleague in my office "Vote for Squirrel! No one has fluffier ears than I do!", mocking a prominent narcissist. Next day the Prez was shot in the ear, and showed up with gauze on his ear. I'm sure my colleague still remembers this, as I pointed it out to her after he was shot. Fun!
I remember I looked for a picture of a falling squirrel briefly <edit> as in squirrel going down in polls. Violence is always wrong. And we laughed.

 

[GM4AJK]

I made a joke response to a Xweet on my mobile phone...

And then I opened YouTube on my laptop, and this was its top recommended video. Synchronicity, spyware or other?

 

[deirdre]

and this was its top recommended video

there's a whole channel for torque testing?! i swear you can find the answer to anything on youtube!

 

[jarlrmai]

I made a joke response to a Xweet on my mobile phone...

View attachment 88458

And then I opened YouTube on my laptop, and this was its top recommended video. Synchronicity, spyware or other?

View attachment 88459

Tracking cookies

 

[Gary C]

there's a whole channel for torque testing?! i swear you can find the answer to anything on youtube!

You can find "an answer" to anything on Youtube.
YMMMV

 

[Scaramanga]

The discussion in this thread did reminded me of the Global Consciousness Project, so I thought I'd have a quick search here on MB to see if there were any interesting discussions that already existed, and oddly, the best hit I got was from @Scaramanga post here. Does that count as a synchronicity event in and of itself?

My understanding is the Global Consciousness Project was resoundingly debunked some time ago...with many of the 'hits' being down to researchers on the project having an entire world of 'news' to randomly pick as their 'hit'. In short, it was statistical nonsense....with an 'after the event' bias.

 

[GM4AJK]

My understanding is the Global Consciousness Project was resoundingly debunked some time ago...with many of the 'hits' being down to researchers on the project having an entire world of 'news' to randomly pick as their 'hit'. In short, it was statistical nonsense....with an 'after the event' bias.

Indeed, another variation on Ley Lines and Bible Code. Throw enough shit against a wall and some of it will stick.

 

[Todd Feinman]

Just went to get ground coffee at local Starbucks drive through. Amazingly as the young punk rock girl handed my bag of coffee to me, I noticed that she had a tattoo of the Bob Dobbs head with his pipe, from the Church of the SubGenius. I pointed it out to her and we laughed, and I asked for some slack. Drove home and flipped on YouTube on my TV, and there pops up a suggested thumbnail for "Devo and the Secret History of SubGenius" and there is the same Bob Dobbs' head on the thumbnail! I think this might be a good omen. Haven't seen that face in a very long time. This very moment I am drinking a cup of that coffee, hoping for some slack.

 

[GM4AJK]

Tracking cookies

flipped on YouTube on my TV, and there pops up

I have come to the conclusion that all synchronic events involving technology "with ears"[1] do not count.

[1] With ears meaning anything electronic, you can interact with that is connected to the Internet.

 

[yoshy]

What's the theoretical model to distinguish "synchronicity" and coincidence? A scientific approach would need to propose that to generate hypotheses to test.

 

[Mauro]

What's the theoretical model to distinguish "synchronicity" and coincidence? A scientific approach would need to propose that to generate hypotheses to test.

My take is coincidences are physical, real, objective events, while synchronicities are psychological, virtual, subjective events.

 

[yoshy]

My take is coincidences are physical, real, objective events, while synchronicities are psychological, virtual, subjective events.

Ahhh sorry I should've specified I was referring to "synchronicity" as used in the woo world. It's not super well defined, but it points to some sort of guiding force (not necessarily God even). Some sort of coincidence that points to something... larger.

 

[deirdre]

It's not super well defined, but it points to some sort of guiding force (not necessarily God even). Some sort of coincidence that points to something... larger.

doesn't physics/math do that all the time?

Ahhh sorry I should've specified I was referring to "synchronicity" as used in the woo world.

based on this thread, a model cant be established because synchronicity is being defined all wrong in the first place by most!

 

[yoshy]

doesn't physics/math do that all the time?

Not really. Physics will postulate missing particles or theories (like relativity) that make predictions that can be tested. Synchronicity, in the woo sense, doesn't do that. Metaphysics gets into the why more than physics. Math starts from axioms, which are agreed upon rules, and beyond that, like the supernatural, is largely irrelevant.

based on this thread, a model cant be established because synchronicity is being defined all wrong in the first place by most!

Haha ya that's the first step. I actually didn't know there was a non-woo version

 

[deirdre]

Synchronicity, in the woo sense, doesn't do that.

It's not woo. certainly some people can make it into woo (like my preference to decide sometimes that its god or grandpa saying hi), but it itself isn't manifested or anything. there isnt anything supernatural about it happening. It's more just noticing the 'fabric of reality', the way that we notice contrails once someone or something draws our attention to them.

And it can be reproduced and seen by multiple observers.. i did it myself with at least 7 friends and family members (just to make sure i wasnt hallucinating it all) over many months. I'm not sure hwo to explain it, it's just pattern recognition really since our world/reality is pretty finite.. ergo patterns will repeat...like they do in nature.

 

[yoshy]

It's not woo. certainly some people can make it into woo

That's why I said in the "woo sense" because that's my experience with it. That's also why I said elsewhere I wasn't familiar with the non-woo sense.

(like my preference to decide sometimes that its god or grandpa saying hi), but it itself isn't manifested or anything. there isnt anything supernatural about it happening. It's more just noticing the 'fabric of reality', the way that we notice contrails once someone or something draws our attention to them.

And it can be reproduced and seen by multiple observers.. i did it myself with at least 7 friends and family members (just to make sure i wasnt hallucinating it all) over many months. I'm not sure hwo to explain it, it's just pattern recognition really since our world/reality is pretty finite.. ergo patterns will repeat...like they do in nature.

Copying from Google Gemini here:

> Synchronicity, introduced by psychologist Carl Jung in the early 20th century, refers to meaningful coincidences—events that share a significant, non-causal connection, such as thinking of someone and immediately receiving a call from them.

That is woo. Your example is noticing 7 coincidences over several months. 1 coincidence per month isn't synchronicity. It's a really normal rate, possibly even low rate of coincidences. Unless you think there is some sort of higher meaning to them, which again is back to woo country.

 

[Rationalman]

It's not woo. certainly some people can make it into woo (like my preference to decide sometimes that its god or grandpa saying hi), but it itself isn't manifested or anything. there isnt anything supernatural about it happening. It's more just noticing the 'fabric of reality', the way that we notice contrails once someone or something draws our attention to them.

And it can be reproduced and seen by multiple observers.. i did it myself with at least 7 friends and family members (just to make sure i wasnt hallucinating it all) over many months. I'm not sure hwo to explain it, it's just pattern recognition really since our world/reality is pretty finite.. ergo patterns will repeat...like they do in nature.

Patternicity "Patternicity is the human tendency to perceive meaningful patterns, connections, or intentionality within random, chaotic, or meaningless data. Coined by Michael Shermer, it is an evolutionarily driven cognitive bias—often termed a "belief engine"—where the brain prefers to risk a false positive (Type I error) rather than miss a crucial, real pattern. " Google AI

 

[Ann K]

It's not woo. certainly some people can make it into woo (like my preference to decide sometimes that its god or grandpa saying hi), but it itself isn't manifested or anything. there isnt anything supernatural about it happening. It's more just noticing the 'fabric of reality', the way that we notice contrails once someone or something draws our attention to them.

And it can be reproduced and seen by multiple observers.. i did it myself with at least 7 friends and family members (just to make sure i wasnt hallucinating it all) over many months. I'm not sure hwo to explain it, it's just pattern recognition really since our world/reality is pretty finite.. ergo patterns will repeat...like they do in nature.

I have no idea what you're talking about at all. But whether one talks about coincidences, synchronicity, or patterns, they are all things that only exist because an observer notices them. We don't call it a coincidence if we see the sun rise every morning, or if a dropped object always falls down instead of up. The repetition of mundane events is a thing that we don't notice, and depend upon in our daily lives.

Where the "woo" comes in is not in the events themselves, but in the significance we place on them. True, sometimes noticing a pattern can lead to a genuine discovery, and much of science has advanced in that way. But in the same fashion, pseudoscience and pseudoreligious beliefs and conspiracy theories can arise.

 

[JMartJr]

Where the "woo" comes in is not in the events themselves, but in the significance we place on them. True, sometimes noticing a pattern can lead to a genuine discovery, and much of science has advanced in that way. But in the same fashion, pseudoscience and pseudoreligious beliefs and conspiracy theories can arise.

Just speaking for me, I'd be open to the idea that the subconscious mind sometimes prompts us to notice interesting coincidental stuff that will lead us to consciously realize something of which we ought to be more aware. Which is in line with "the "woo" comes in is not in the events themselves, but in the significance we place on them," and also with there being a "hidden hand" of some purpose in synchronicity -- our own subconscious.

My working hypothesis is that things like tarot cards or astrology or I Ching work something like that -- to the extent they work at all. They provide the brain with ambiguous signals, which might prompt the user to consciously realize something they knew subconsciously.

Thus the skeptic can be correct that "well THAT could mean anything!" and the believer correct when they find very personal and relevant "messages." Being able to mean anything is not a bug, it's THE feature, and the call, if any, is coming from inside the house!

 

[yoshy]

Just speaking for me, I'd be open to the idea that the subconscious mind sometimes prompts us to notice interesting coincidental stuff that will lead us to consciously realize something of which we ought to be more aware. Which is in line with "the "woo" comes in is not in the events themselves, but in the significance we place on them," and also with there being a "hidden hand" of some purpose in synchronicity -- our own subconscious.

My working hypothesis is that things like tarot cards or astrology or I Ching work something like that -- to the extent they work at all. They provide the brain with ambiguous signals, which might prompt the user to consciously realize something they knew subconsciously.

Thus the skeptic can be correct that "well THAT could mean anything!" and the believer correct when they find very personal and relevant "messages." Being able to mean anything is not a bug, it's THE feature, and the call, if any, is coming from inside the house!

Interesting ideas, especially the part about the subconscious mind prompting us to notice patterns consciously for some reason. But just to clarify again, the woo version of synchronicity posits that pattern recognition or even the existence of the coincidences is caused or created by something else... That "else" is often not well defined or not even defined at all. Sometimes I'll see "the universe wanted me to see this". Lol the universe? What does that even mean?! The universe is the name for the spacetime we live in. At least specify God(s), machine elves, something! (Not directed at you, just to be clear!)

 

[deirdre]

Your example is noticing 7 coincidences over several months.

does it read that way? it was more like 10 or 20 a day. As much as i wanted. (i was super stressed out at the time working with neglected kids..so my brain was in hyperalert mode as i mentioned earlier).

Where the "woo" comes in is not in the events themselves, but in the significance we place on them.

i literally just said the same thing.

We don't call it a coincidence [...] if a dropped object always falls down instead of up.

last night i thought i should use gravity as analogy. but i dont think that is synchronicity or coincidence.. i think you actually DO understand what i'm saying, you just don't realize it.