Switching on and off of trails?

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
No but soot etc completely blanketing the sky is, to me. But Like I said I dont claim that to be chemtrail related as such.

Soot blanketing the sky? What?

Remember the engine exhaust situation in the sky is basically the same, every single day (unless there's an air-traffic shutdown). So the amount of soot is the same, every day. It's not "blanketing the sky".
 

Gary Cook

Active Member
Soot blanketing the sky? What?

Remember the engine exhaust situation in the sky is basically the same, every single day (unless there's an air-traffic shutdown). So the amount of soot is the same, every day. It's not "blanketing the sky".


Ok, so the soot is not in the contrails. It separates?

Mick, I appreciate how much of a gent you have been with me.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
No but soot etc completely blanketing the sky is, to me. But Like I said I dont claim that to be chemtrail related as such.

It really depends on what you are describing. A picture might help

Low level haze is typically caused by humidity and smog. High level haze could be natural cirrus clouds composed of ice crystals forming around dust particles. I believe sea salt is also a common nucleating agent. If you're taking about blankets of persistent spreading contrails, those form when water vapour from jet exhaust freezes at high altitude. If the air is supersaturated, a kind of cascade happens where the ice crystals (and small amounts of soot and other by-products) from the jet exhaust induce more ice crystals to form as they draw water vapour from the air.

In other words the blanket did not all come from the plane, but the plane was responsible for its formation.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Ok, so the soot is not in the contrails. It separates?

Mick, I appreciate how much of a gent you have been with me.
the soot is always there, more on takeoff, but all that is required for the white lines you see is water vapor from the exhaust condensing, freezing into ice crystals
which then grow 1000 times by gathering water vapor already existing in ice supersaturated air.

you can see the soot best at high power levels during take off. probably less soot at cruise
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Does a plane engine 'burn cleaner' than traffic on the ground?

Considering the amount of cars close to us versus the amount of planes in the sky, it seems meaningless to be concerned over the pollution from planes as a priority over car-based emissions.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
Because I cant name drop people without their permission. That is basic politeness. But I don't think I submitted what they told me as evidence in to the debate here. I am listening to everything I have been told here and you seem like good people with good intentions. As am I. I don't think hysteria helps anybody.

Sure you did. You said that atmospheric conditions can't vary enough to explain what you see and you cited some "weather specialists" as your source on that. QUOTE YOU in post #8:

"The trails, whatever they are, change almost instantly.

I have asked around and weather speciealists agree that this cant be the atmostphere. It is just too sudden."


If these people are holding themselves up as "specialists" in this area their statements should be available for review. You can just quote some of their statements on the matter, can't you? You DID cite them as an authoritative source, after all. Gary Cook, you are being disingenuous. Don't cite sources you then say you won't won't specify.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
I have reviewed Micks link: http://contrailscience.com/broken-contrails/

I am conscious of the sheer volume difference in the amout of moisture that such an effect would need to occur. Especially when these trails form clouds that blanket the sky and that this apperant broken contrail phenomen happens multiple time in various places in the sky and another plane can fly through the same patch of sky creating a trail where the other plane didnt.

We are right back to this. The "same patch of sky" VISUALLY, is not the same thing as the ACTUAL same parcel of air. There could be one to several thousands of feet in altitude difference and you couldn't tell. Your premise is faulty.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Gary, I shot these two photos whilst flying from Sydney to Perth as an illustration of the phenomenon of trails stopping/starting.

2D photos didn't really do it justice because all the clouds look to be at the same level but in fact the aircraft was flying inside a broken layer of cirrus with a layer of cumulus well below it.

The trail started in the cirrus layer and stopped when the aircraft reached clear air. The implication being that the changes in relative humidity that created the gaps in the cirrus layer were sufficient enough to create a break in the contrail as well.

The aircraft in question was a Virgin Australia Boeing 737.image.jpgimage.jpg
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
You tell me, did i write that?

Here's what you said:

Gary Cook said:
Like i said I am 50/50 On chemtrails, but from what I know of what is being uncovered in the banking world, I would be scared if I was them. the level of fraud is monumental. But not a story for this thread.

Since this isn't the thread for the banking world "fraud story", and I can't ask you "what is being uncovered in the banking world" (well I can but it would be pointless I think), I have to ask why you link the two? Usually when I come across someone who is JAQing off about chemtrails, and brings up bank fraud, it's like DING DING DING DING CTer!! CTer!!


Good point although unnecessarily demeaning. Most chemtrail truthers do what they do because they care about people and have witnessed real government plots to hurt people in the past. Since the point of this forum seems to be to help people who are in despair about conspiracy theories I am here being polite to people and asking questions. t least my mind is open enough to questions both sides as the camp, as it were.

The point of this forum is to debunk conspiracy theories. I don't think most chemtrail truthers (truther: another compiracy theory mentioned that's 3) do what they do because they care about people, I think many are just plain scared of clouds and have other people who are either making money off that fear, or are also afraid of clouds pushing them deeper and deeper. And many of the people who believe in chemtrails also believe the pilots should be shot down or otherwise stopped, so that's not "caring" for anyone. You also mention people have witness real goverhnment plots to hurt people.......CT # 4 mentioned by you.

I am not stupid enough to go, LOOK THEY ARE CHEMTRAILS THEN!, lol.

But that is scary. Considering I have seen them completely blanket the sky before. At least a couple time s a week.


Is your concern then that fuel emissions are causing pollution or that we are being "sprayed" with poisons intentionally for whatever your reason of choice is? I.e., population control, weather control, nano bot implantation.....
I wonder if you will answer that question.
 
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JRBids

Senior Member.
I am not quite sure what your point is but that is interesting to know that was happening in WW2 also.

To me it says that during WWII people also saw contrails spread opined that it looked like they were creating weather. Except they were probably joking about it.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Ok, so the soot is not in the contrails. It separates?

Mick, I appreciate how much of a gent you have been with me.

Where do you live that soot is blanketing the sky? China?

Indeed. Some of them have mental health issues but personally I treat people humanly. Liberal types especially can be really nasty to anybody who doesnt follow the maintream status quo.

Cause right wing conservatives are very open minded, right?

Gary are you trolling us?
 

justanairlinepilot

Senior Member.
Just asking but some of the people here seem very hostile to people that consider chemtrailing may be happening.

Can we blame people for thinking it is possible when even mainstream newspapers have reported on the existence of black-op projects?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience

So, what is it going to take to convince you that chemtrails are not real but part of a conspiracy of which a few people are making money? I'm an airline pilot and I work at the altitudes of which you see these trails. I can't, but if I could, I would bring you with me and show you that all of these trails are being produced by normal engine exhaust, of which are commercial airliners. I notices you asked if they were being made by the wing...you'll only find that at low altitudes with high lift production and high relative humidity...Bernoulli's principle (1783). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli's_principle

From what I am reading no one is being hostile towards your questions. However, you seem to be very stubborn with scientific fact. Contrailscience is a repeat of many, many scientific studies...not a few people trying to cover up a conspiracy.
 

Martin

New Member
Just asking but some of the people here seem very hostile to people that consider chemtrailing may be happening.

Can we blame people for thinking it is possible when even mainstream newspapers have reported on the existence of black-op projects?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience
You are right to say people are being a little hostile, Gary. Maybe because you mentioned this which will get under peoples skin a bit. 'The fascist globalists have committed genocide in certain countries. Would it be such a stretch for them to use slow-kill globally?'

This comment is a bit condescending 'then we will see if there is a need to investigate the intentions of the fascist globalists in relation to the presence of the ice clouds.' Also someone put words in your mouth regarding the 'banking cover up'. I think the point you were making was that cover ups can, have & do go on...so everybody here should not write off people who ask questions as 'loons', or imply they are loons, as some are implying.

The link you supplied shows that governments / the military do hide things, and do spray people with things, so that means it is possible in some cases that some kind of geo engineering / spraying may be going on. People have a right to ask questions just on previous history alone, which I think is your point regarding the Guardian article.
On what scale does any geo engineering go on is anyone's guess. Is it done illegally? who knows.
Personally I have seen no strong evidence to say it is on the scale people say and it is for the purpose of hurting people in any way. I don't buy the depopulation thing at all...it does not logically play out in many ways.

With regards to your question about contrails / pollution from planes having an effect
'On a basic environmental level.' Yes, there is science to say contrails covering the sky in a blanket kind of way are having an effect on the environment. http://www.contrails.nl/contrails-research/temperature 02.htm#2
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
I don't theink anyone posting here is "hostile", Martin and Gary Cook.

Regardless of what spraying or experiments have been done in the past, there is no evidence that there is an atmospheric geoengineering program in operation.

Also, while there may be effects of contrails or contrail cirrus on total cloudiness, surface temperatures or local radiation balance, the production and placement of them is unplanned, not intentional and not in any way deliberate.
 

Martin

New Member
Hi Ross. Ok, not so much hostile, more a bit condescending and kind of missing some of the points Gary is making.

I agree, there is no evidence to say any kind of illegal geo engineering is going on. I totally agree.

Yes, the link I posted is not to say any kind of pollution is planned, or intentional. It was to answer Gary's questions regarding if contrails are effecting the world 'On a basic environmental level.'
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
Hi Ross. Ok, not so much hostile, more a bit condescending and kind of missing some of the points Gary is making. I agree, there is no evidence to say any kind of illegal geo engineering is going on. I totally agree. Yes, the link I posted is not to say any kind of pollution is planned, or intentional. It was to answer Gary's questions regarding if contrails are effecting the world 'On a basic environmental level.'
Contrails represent 3.5% of total hydrocarbon combustion.

One twenty-eighth of the problem.

This has turned out to be within the noise of any instrumentation in present-day use, and so no scientist could make the claim that contrails, or even the COX, SOX, and NOX that they contain, have any measurable effect on the atmosphere whatsoever.

This on its own should suggest that "chemtrails" are mythological: there's nothing to measure.
 
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Martin

New Member
Contrails represent 3.5% of total hydrocarbon combustion.

One twenty-eighth of the problem.

This has turned out to be within the noise of any instrumentation in present-day use, and so no scientist could make the claim that contrails, or even the COX, SOX, and NOX that they contain, have any measurable effect on the atmosphere whatsoever.

This on its own should suggest that "chemtrails" are mythological: there's nothing to measure.

I see. I was mainly referring to the contrails dispersing across the sky and blocking out sunlight. What some have called 'Global dimming'
 

Gary Cook

Active Member
This was all quite an old reaction of mine. I have learned that it is better to just stick to known facts otherwise things go a bit argumentative and frivolous. I also trust the admin more than I used to and they didnt try to suppress my assertions like I thought they may. Before I came to this forum I was used to debunkers but debunkers that did so just out of ego rather than for the sake of science and rationality like people here tend to be proponents of. I am still 50/50 as such but I dont have anything to present. The facts here are good and i am grateful. My intution is telling me something is wrong still but thats not something to get in to when there are more obvious challenges in life and society.
 
This was all quite an old reaction of mine. I have learned that it is better to just stick to known facts otherwise things go a bit argumentative and frivolous. I also trust the admin more than I used to and they didnt try to suppress my assertions like I thought they may. Before I came to this forum I was used to debunkers but debunkers that did so just out of ego rather than for the sake of science and rationality like people here tend to be proponents of. I am still 50/50 as such but I dont have anything to present. The facts here are good and i am grateful. My intution is telling me something is wrong still but thats not something to get in to when there are more obvious challenges in life and society.
If you MO is to stick to known facts Gary. And you are 50/50 on the topic. What "Known Facts" make you lean the 50% towards chemtrails?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Bit off topic now. The topic is switching ona nd off of trails, which has probably been covered.

New topics in new thread please. We don't need an extensive examination of the entire chemtrail theory here unless there is something new.
 
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