Steven Greenstreet's Skinwalker Ranch Video Series

Also, "Panza" probabaly indicates having a paunch. Trust me, I'm an expert on such matters :) (And, yes, the mere fact that I have typed that sentence should make you trust me less.)

OOT, you could go with "FelipePanzón" as an alter ego. While "FelipeGordo" is a more accurate form and the slang word ponzón is hard to find in most Spanish to English translators, the Mexican guys I knew used it all the time when referring to "plumper" folks, though it can be taken as derogatory.

Back on topic, I've gotten through 3 episodes so far and I'm enjoying it. I think @sgreenstreet does a good job of entertainingly walking one through all the claims and the associated problems.

His "basement office" set is great. It plays along with the various reality TV shows and notions of AATIP's government High Tech lab where UAPs are studied and analyzed by teams of experts. The room full of screens at SWR where Dr. Travis Taylor looks at the evidence is like miniature Huston mission control. I often get that's what people imagined Elizondo's AATIP offices looked like, had they actually existed.

Greestreet plays against the High-Tech look with his retro '70s/'80s office where a hard-boiled Private Dick or Investigative Journalist combs through the actual documents and connects the dots to solve the case.

Nick Pope as the co-host was concerning at first for me, but it's perfect. It's not some UFO buzzkill skeptics like @Robert Sheaffer or Mick reenforcing all the problems with the SWR mythos, it's a UFOlogist guy trying to make excuses for all the shortcomings.

And with his Mormon background, Greenstreet is the perfect guy to try and get to the bottom of Fugel's beliefs.
 
A good analogy, but even if many players come off as Quixotic:

Quixotism as a term or a quality appeared after the publication of Don Quixote in 1605. Don Quixote, the hero of this novel, written by Spanish author Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, dreams up a romantic ideal world which he believes to be real, and acts on this idealism, which most famously leads him into imaginary fights with windmills that he regards as giants, leading to the related metaphor of "tilting at windmills".

Already in the 17th century the term quixote was used to describe a person who does not distinguish between reality and imagination. The poet John Cleveland wrote in 1644, in his book The character of a London diurnall:


Content from External Source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quixotism#:~:text

It's only to an extent. Bigelow was a successful businessman, so he appears to have known when to pull the plug on NIDS and let it rest until he could get government funding for AASWAP. When that dried up, he sold to Fugel. Depending on how much he sold it for, he may have recouped what he spent on acquiring SWR and funding NIDS. His BAASS company made have also generated a bit of a prophet contracting for AAWSAP.

Fugel is also a successful businessman and after buying SWR, he knew how to market it with the Discovery Networks. So, they may be a bit Quixotic in their quests, but they're, if not making money, not losing much in those quests.

In keeping with the Cervantes analogies, I guess it leaves some of us as Sanchopancesco people (bold by me):
[
  1. (relational) of Sancho Panza (a character in the 1605 novel Don Quixote); Panza's
  2. Sancho Panza-esque; having the characteristics associated with the character, including lowbrow wit and cynical realism.
Content from External Source
  1. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sanchopancesco

I've no doubt Fugal has a keen eye for business. But it's clear he genuinely believes, or wants to believe, in the paranormal to the extent of being prepared to spend large sums to 'investigate' it. So I'm not so cynical as to see the whole thing as just a business venture. I think the same applies to Bigelow, who has stated his devout belief numerous times. The entire problem with believers investigating stuff is they go in expecting to find phenomenon.....and most relevant of all, their team is then primed to 'find' what the boss is after. Is someone on the pay check at SWR really going to go up to Fugal and say ' hey, my job here is a waste of time but thanks for the nice pay check'. No....they will just keep 'finding' stuff to keep the boss happy.
 
One of the fundamental aspects of real science is repeating experiments multiple times and comparing the results. How do the results differ across multiple trials, by how much do they differ, what sources of error can you sometimes detect, all sorts of benefits can be had by repeating experiments. People who are unwilling to repeat experiments, or who withhold information so that others can't repeat the experiment themselves, are displaying a lack of faith in their own results.
Don't forget that the pseudoscientists often choose experiments that aren't suited to giving accurate results. In this case, GPS is at its most inaccurate when tracking height/altitude (and the receiver being in motion doesn't help accuracy, either).
Inaccuracy is a problem for science, but it's an advantage for pseudoscience since it is merely looking for something "unexplainable", not an explanation. It's kinda the same deal why pictures of UFOs and aliens are usually grainy: "we can't figure out what it is, therefore it's supernatural". Sorry, no, the reason you can't figure it out is the bad quality of your data.

Note also the lack of comparison data: "we dropped these over a paranormal place, so anything that looks weird must be due to paranormal influence". Science is to have a control, i.e. figure out what is normal before making statements about what isn't. Otherwise, you're liable to consider normal (but nonintuitive) results abnormal. Using roll-your-own experiments instead of standard equipment (e.g. weather balloons) helps with generating "special" data that has no comparison and can provide a canvas for baseless incredulity.
 
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Here's a link to @sgreenstreet 's entire playlist that eventually led here: Basement Office Playlist. The playlist starts with Greenstreet and Nick Pope (that UFO guy from the UK MoD) discussing various UFO stories. If I remember correctly, Greenstreet starts the series as somewhere between believer and skeptic (please correct me if I'm wrong; it's been a while).

For those not interested in watching the entire ~15 video series, I recommend just starting on the Lue Elizondo episodes and going from through the end of the Skinwalker episodes. The first 10 or so are fun, but not as focused on the skeptical side of things this website is for. The remaining episodes after are directly relevant to the modern revival from the Pentagon releases, and this is when the skepticism really starts to turn up.

The videos get especially spicy once Greenstreet turns his attention to the more recent UFO videos and Lue Elizondo specifically.
. Moving on to videos on the various UFO programs AATIP, AAWSAP and those involved. There are numerous inconsistencies in stories from the players involved. No evidence ever shared. Confounding reality TV shows.

Finally, the last 5 episodes are on SkinWalker Ranch, starting with this one .

It's impossible to easily summarize several hours of video, but it's worth watching for any skeptic. The basic summary is Greenstreet researches the history of Skinwalker ranch, interviews relevant people, and eventually spends a night at the ranch. Essentially, nothing makes sense by the end of it. Some things are almost too stupid to believe they're real, but everything is verified in the videos.

So finally a question for Mr @sgreenstreet. Do you have any firm belief in what's truly going on here? My impression from watching these videos is that you grow more and more incredulous as the series goes on. Is my impression of your feelings correct? Are you pretty frustrated by the end?

When I first watched Part 3 of Skinwalker, I had a really positive impression of Brandon Fugal, and it seemed like you did too. He seemed to be a legit believer and dedicated to being open with the findings. But by part 5, it was quite clear that there is no commitment to openness. Among much else, he avoids your questions about contagions, charges for access to the ranch website, shares literally no real evidence with you at months of ghosting you. By the end of it, it just seems like a scam to me, and you seemed quite frustrated with Fugal. Do you think people like Fugal are genuine but mislead or gullible? Are they grifters?

Final episode just dropped.


@Nemon at the end of the episode, he said that he requested the 5 best pieces of evidence, actual data, from Fugal. Fugal didn't respond for months, and his eventual response was just fluff from the show. I believe that accounted for the delay.

I highly recommend everyone watch this series. It's nearly impossible to summarize how absurd the whole situation is. More examples of past and present claims of unexplainable behavior, never sharing data. More connections between the major players exposed. The fact that everything is so heavily monetized has made me lean more towards deliberate scam.

One of the best moments is Greenstreet questioning Fugal on claims that there is essentially a contagious poltergeist or virus from the ranch. Greenstreet presses Fugal on why Fugal has never contacted the CDC or other authorities about this dangerous contagion, inter-spliced with clips of the stars of the show meeting with hundreds or thousands of fans (and charging them money for it).

I think we need a separate thread for the series itself (or each episode if mods prefer that). There's just so much ridiculousness to summarize.

Additional context:

The video is the conclusion to Greenstreet's series on Skinwalker Ranch. It's a 47 minute video that includes a lot of new information, as well as footage from Greenstreet's night at the ranch. Spoiler alert: he didn't find any aliens, dinobeavers, or other notable paranormal activity. He does get bad allergies.

The video includes some further background on Fugal, the current owner of the ranch, including his involvement with an "archaeology" group whose goals including proving the book of Mormon and UFO sightings.

There is a further dive into the personalities involved both up front and behind the scenes, including Jay Stratton, Travis Taylor, Utah government officials. Many of these personalities also get paid thousands for their appearances at paranormal conventions.

Includes fun facts like Travis Taylor has previously speculated that Greenstreet is actually working for the Men in Black. Also lots of stonewalling from government officials.

Hopefully this is enough context in a thread where we've been discussing the videos. It's a 47 minute video, and it's difficult to summarize just how dumb a lot of the truth is.

Sorry, but… since when is the New York Post a reputable source of investigative journalism?
 
Sorry, but… since when is the New York Post a reputable source of investigative journalism?
Agreed, it's definitely generally not. But you can judge Greenstreet's journalism on its own merits. As far as I can tell, every claim in this series is backed up interviews, official government documents, or primary sources. And you can ask him questions directly on this site if you please.
 
Don't forget that the pseudoscientists often choose experiments that aren't suited to giving accurate results. In this case, GPS is at its most inaccurate when tracking height/altitude (and the receiver being in motion doesn't help accuracy, either).
Inaccuracy is a problem for science, but it's an advantage for pseudoscience since it is merely looking for something "unexplainable", not an explanation. It's kinda the same deal why pictures of UFOs and aliens are usually grainy: "we can't figure out what it is, therefore it's supernatural". Sorry, no, the reason you can't figure it out is the bad quality of your data.

Note also the lack of comparison data: "we dropped these over a paranormal place, so anything that looks weird must be due to paranormal influence". Science is to have a control, i.e. figure out what is normal before making statements about what isn't. Otherwise, you're liable to consider normal (but nonintuitive) results abnormal. Using roll-your-own experiments instead of standard equipment (e.g. weather balloons) helps with generating "special" data that has no comparison and can provide a canvas for baseless incredulity.
Indeed. Everything about Skinwalker ranch seems designed to get only the barest of information, one fuzzy picture, one faint recorded sound, one trial never repeated.

In the Skinwalker Ranch: Judgement Day video linked above you can see the owners lack of interest in conducting actual science. Don't talk to medical experts about people who get sick after visiting, for example. Or how about reporting to the FAA that 'wormhole' above the ranch that causes balloons and drones to disappear? Maybe tell the FAA about it so passing helicopters don't get sucked in? For all the claims about unusual things about the location there is an almost complete lack of interest in providing any real answers, performing any real science.

Why, for example haven't they installed a hundred cameras in that building where odd lights are seen, cameras on every wall, on the floor and the ceiling, visible light cameras, thermal cameras, UV cameras..... and so forth?
Strange sounds outdoors? A couple of hundred microphones in a grid pattern covering the entire ranch maybe?
Shouldn't they have, by now, installed cameras that keep every square foot of the ranch under observation both day and night?

So much they could do, if they wanted too.
 
Shouldn't they have, by now, installed cameras that keep every square foot of the ranch under observation both day and night?

So much they could do, if they wanted too.
Are you assuming they haven't? or do they walk around in the series and you can see all the cameras (or lack of cameras)?

has @sgreenstreet talked about that anywhere?
 
Are you assuming they haven't? or do they walk around in the series and you can see all the cameras (or lack of cameras)?

has @sgreenstreet talked about that anywhere?
Watching the last episode, I wondered if @sgreenstreet wouldn't be under surveillance (and if they wouldn't try to pull a trick or two on him) in the cabin or at his campsite. However, he doesn't seem to find any surveillance technology, nor does he mention anything of the sort, if I recall correctly.
 
Are you assuming they haven't? or do they walk around in the series and you can see all the cameras (or lack of cameras)?

has @sgreenstreet talked about that anywhere?
We are very familiar with that carriage house video, the one they refer to as their "best" unexplained event in their most mysterious location, and they only saw fit to put a single camera there. It occurs to me (as it might have to them) that more cameras (and/or microphones) might just provide more illustrations of nothing happening.
 
They are the definition of selection bias, they review the footage and anything that looks odd enough makes the show the rest is discarded.
 
Are you assuming they haven't? or do they walk around in the series and you can see all the cameras (or lack of cameras)?

has @sgreenstreet talked about that anywhere?
Yes, I am "just" assuming they have not. And it is a very safe assumption.

If they had photos of a 'dino-beaver' instead of an artists sketch they would be showing the photos, not the sketch.

They are marketing hints of things, not hard data or definitive evidence of things. Because there is nothing there out of the ordinary.
If they had cameras everywhere they would not have to rely on eyewitness testimony, they could show the pictures or release the sound recordings. And if they had complete coverage they would be bragging about it, I am quite sure.

It is not in their interest to have complete coverage of the area, or multiple recording devices in a single location.
People would then expect, and might even demand, solid evidence, something more than just tales of things going bump in the night.
 
People would then expect, and might even demand, solid evidence, something more than just tales of things going bump in the night.
That's exactly how QAnon worked. Q, supposedly an "insider", never leaked any evidence; all Q did was drop hints that made people scared.
 
all Q did was drop hints that made people scared.
...and allowed people to "work it out for themselves," following hints to reach conclusions that were sort of baked in to the clues, but it felt like reaching conclusions "all on their own, like "doing your own research," and made it into a emotionally rewarding game -- with the added advantage (or disadvantage, depending on where you are looking at it from) that having figured it out for themselves, they were harder to convince that they might be wrong.

I do not know if the Skinwalker Ranch folks are using that same technique, I do not follow their show. So this may be wandering off topic, if so I apologize and will hush up now! ^_^
 
...and allowed people to "work it out for themselves," following hints to reach conclusions that were sort of baked in to the clues, but it felt like reaching conclusions "all on their own, like "doing your own research," and made it into a emotionally rewarding game -- with the added advantage (or disadvantage, depending on where you are looking at it from) that having figured it out for themselves, they were harder to convince that they might be wrong.
The conclusions were not "baked into the clues", the clues just set the crowd running, and whatever they arrived at was the conclusion. Read more on this at https://www.metabunk.org/threads/a-game-designer’s-analysis-of-qanon.11509/ , and it's probably best to take any Qanon-related discussion there.

I simply wanted to point out the similarity between Q and SWR, that incomplete clues demonstrably work well to make an audience believe in a narrative that lacks evidence (that we really would expect to be available). Sometimes even expert panels claim that clues "plausibly explain" their narrative, with no evidence!
 
i'm confused by your link. are you saying none of those things ever happened?
I referred you back to a previous post were I included a link to and excerpt from an article where former Bigelow employees stated they told Bigelow what he wanted to hear about spooky goings on at SWR.

The same post also identified a former SWR security guy (also interviewed in the same article) who guested on C2CAM with rent-a-host/SWR author George Knapp. Knapp had apparently not talked to the guest before going on air as he repeatedly told Knapp he, nor his colleagues, had ever witnessed much out of the ordinary while pulling security at the ranch. As previously mentioned, Knapp ditched the guy and the guest does not appear among the "guest search" feature on the C2CAM website.
 
The same post also identified a former SWR security guy (also interviewed in the same article) who guested on C2CAM with rent-a-host/SWR author George Knapp. Knapp had apparently not talked to the guest before going on air as he repeatedly told Knapp he, nor his colleagues, had ever witnessed much out of the ordinary while pulling security at the ranch. As previously mentioned, Knapp ditched the guy and the guest does not appear among the "guest search" feature on the C2CAM website.

That would be fun to find the episode. It reenforces that the whole SWR and by extension the vast majority of the US DoD's response to UFO/UAPs from the mid '00s up until very recently, if not today, is all based on the unsubstantiated stories of George Knapp. He is literally the Godfather of SRW, AAWSAP, AATIP and God know what else.

Despite what he says in his books, when pressed by people like Joe Rogan, Knapp is forced to admit there is NO physical evidence for anything he's claimed over the past 20 years.
 
I referred you back to a previous post were I included a link to and excerpt from an article where former Bigelow employees stated they told Bigelow what he wanted to hear about spooky goings on at SWR.

The same post also identified a former SWR security guy (also interviewed in the same article) who guested on C2CAM with rent-a-host/SWR author George Knapp. Knapp had apparently not talked to the guest before going on air as he repeatedly told Knapp he, nor his colleagues, had ever witnessed much out of the ordinary while pulling security at the ranch. As previously mentioned, Knapp ditched the guy and the guest does not appear among the "guest search" feature on the C2CAM website.

i'll take this answer (which only repeats your original post you linked) as a "yes. i'm saying those things never actually happened" :)
 
So Steven is a pig — and one or the other of us can probably relate that to himself.
0:03 "squealing, pathetic, stinky swine"

pretty sure pigs don't stink. and i've also never heard of a pathetic pig. :) even Fugal's insults can be easily debunked.

between using cows as mutilation bait and his reaction to pigs, i think maybe PETA needs to get involved to prevent him from buying any livestock inthe future.
 
After Steven Greenstreet revealed the failure of Fugal and his Skinwalker crew to provide usable evidence, Brandon Fugal has now lost his composure. So Steven is a pig — and one or the other of us can probably relate that to himself. "Oink", @sgreenstreet ;)

Wow!

The quote at 4m35s was followed by a cut to this (which I've overlaid with the quote), which @sgreenstreet wasn't piggy^H^H^H^Hetty enough to pick up on - but I am, because I love the mud!


I particularly liked not just what I thought would be the ending, embracing the criticism, vocally, owning it, but the coda that followed really defanged the attempted insult.
People making things up =
Pig-on-pig theme sunk, pal
(that's an anagram, by the way)

Oink!
 
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