Stand Up to Detect the Curve of the Earth

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Hmm, actually yes, it is Catalina. I was thinking of the Malibu Beach Inn example. I put them together in the refraction simulator.

It's not really a good example, as some of it is from the motion of the ocean.
Metabunk 2020-08-17 15-37-10.jpg
 

ThePlaneTruth

New Member
I was in the debate where the dual panel image was used to prove curvature. Mick, are you the source for the video? I believe the coordinates are incorrect bc I CANNOT find them as I hunt the pacific coast. The closest I can get is in the eastern side of San Clemente.

I believe it is irresponsible to post this image without adequate information. Which island is in front of you there?
Please update your location and how you changed your location in 7 secs to take the next shot.
Please include the focal length data
Please give us the swell data for that day if still available.
Do you have any video of this day?
Please watch my follow up video to the debate where I address "your" photo.
Infamous Slide #22
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Which island is in front of you there?
Please update your location and how you changed your location in 7 secs to take the next shot.
Please include the focal length data
Please give us the swell data for that day if still available.
Do you have any video of this day?
Catalina
I walked a bit, hardly moved. About 20 feet as I remember. But the GPS in the camera might be off.
Probably fully zoom on P900
Swell data, I don't know.
Yes I have video. Attached. It' my photos and video. The video shows me standing up. Handheld, unfortunately.
HOWEVER, I don't really think now this is a good example. Largely because of the potential for swell. A far better example is Catalina, viewed from the beach, then the pier, then the cliff. It's like 100 times better.
20170313-094520-f0g0s.jpg
 

Attachments

  • DSCN3196.mp4
    3.2 MB · Views: 34

Bobby Shafto

New Member
I was in the debate where the dual panel image was used to prove curvature. Mick, are you the source for the video? I believe the coordinates are incorrect bc I CANNOT find them as I hunt the pacific coast. The closest I can get is in the eastern side of San Clemente.
I plotted the coordinates Mick gave to Santa Monica beach just south of the pier.
The island in the background is south end of San Catalina Island in the direction of Blackjack peak.

Travis,
I listened to your debate with Catz. I commented on one of Heath's videos that I would like to talk about these images in one of his [Heath's] live streams, if he's willing to host. He said sure. Hope we get the chance to explore a no-curvature analysis of slide #22. I may understand your theory better than any other globeling, but there are things I can't square.
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The coordinates on the photo don't exist.
You can just type them into Google Maps. Or use a regular map.
Metabunk 2020-08-21 07-46-24.jpg

Were you on the beach? If so, then that boat was only 3-4 miles away.
Like I said, it's not the best example, because there's too many unknowns (distance, waves, tilt of the boat). I noticed the boat becoming more visible standing up vs. crouched. (I don't think I moved much at all).

The better example of a "stand-up" difference is Malibu Beach Inn.
 

Bobby Shafto

New Member
Please give us the swell data for that day if still available.
Santa Monica buoy data: 1.18 metre ground swell from west (268°) at an average period of 9-10 secs.
The sight line bearing from Mick to the sailboat was about 173°.

I judge the boat to be about a 13-14 m fractional sloop.
Weather archive lists wind 6-7 knots SSW, which would correspond to the picture showing the boat on approximately an 080 heading (toward Marina Del Rey) and heeling to port.

Please watch my follow up video to the debate where I address "your" photo.
Infamous Slide #22
Let's chat, with Heath hosting.
 
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Bobby Shafto

New Member
...Like I said, it's not the best example, because there's too many unknowns (distance, waves, tilt of the boat)...
It's not the best for this purpose, you're right; mainly because the boat has vertical motion and the water surface has both wind wave texture and groundswell that's going to swallow up whatever potential distinction there might be between a <1m and 2m observation height.

But it was the image of horizon obstruction that Conspiracy Catz used, which he did because he felt like it was an example of obstruction in the absence of distorting or miraging refractive conditions. I think TPT and I have both wound up here looking for more information on those photos than what Catz had available at the time.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member

If people want to continue this thread, and you are making some claim about the photos, then please include numbers AND diagrams in your posts.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Could you post or share with me the original DSCN3193 photo file (sailboat shot from 2 ft on beach at Santa Monica)?
Attached. But again, I really don't think it's a very useful example. I regret using it in the book because there are too many unknowns - unlike with the Hotel, or Catalina.
 

Attachments

  • DSCN3193 and 4.zip
    8.6 MB · Views: 27

Bobby Shafto

New Member
Attached. But again, I really don't think it's a very useful example. I regret using it in the book because there are too many unknowns - unlike with the Hotel, or Catalina.
I understand. And don't disagree, as far as the "stand up to see the curve" approach is concerned.
I think I can make an argument just from the vertical angular comparison from horizontal between the sailboat and the mountain peak that the surface must be convex.

But that approach is not the focus of this thread. I'm just latched onto that photograph. Thanks.
 

Money4Nothing

New Member
If you want to "stand up to see the curvature of the earth", simply watch the sun set lying down, then stand up and watch the sun set again. You can do this anywhere on earth.
 
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