Space Station Photos Disprove the "Flat Earth" Theory

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
When I saw it i was with friends we all saw it ....it looked like the space station perfectly ...but then i realized that it couldn't be 270 miles away we were not looking with any binoculars or telescope or camera just with the naked eye ...this is very suspicious
Not really. You simply did not see it, you must have seen a plane instead.

Simply saying you can't see something because it's far way is just an argument from incredulity. You can see stars at night and they are trillions of miles away.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Think of it a different way. What if you were on the space station, and looking down at earth. What could you see? What could you see at night? Not what you could see in detail, but what would show up as a speck of light. Could you see a lit up football stadium? Could you see a road just from the street lights?
 

DJC

Member
Think of it a different way. What if you were on the space station, and looking down at earth. What could you see? What could you see at night? Not what you could see in detail, but what would show up as a speck of light. Could you see a lit up football stadium? Could you see a road just from the street lights?
from 40 000 feet prob not from 270 miles def not ......someone would need to do an experiment to debunk or prove this ...and stars being trillions of miles away ....thats another topic ..we don't know if thats true either ...your assuming everything nasa says is true .....we are here to ask questions to find out the truth or to decide no ? and what we saw was exactly the space station there was no question about a plane or the isis ....just later we realized theres no way ...but it still wasn't a plane ...
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
from 40 000 feet prob not from 270 miles def not ......someone would need to do an experiment to debunk or prove this ...and stars being trillions of miles away ....thats another topic ..we don't know if thats true either ...your assuming everything nasa says is true .....we are here to ask questions to find out the truth or to decide no ? and what we saw was exactly the space station there was no question about a plane or the isis ....just later we realized theres no way ...but it still wasn't a plane ...
So why don't people see it close up all the time then?
 

DJC

Member
So why don't people see it close up all the time then?
So why don't people see it close up all the time then?
I don't know if they do or not ....i have heard people saying they saw the space station last night more often lately .i never asked if it was with a telescope or the naked eye ...but there were 4 or 5 of us outside that night ...it was kind of a big deal we saw the ISS ...only later did i question it
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
from 40 000 feet prob not from 270 miles def not ......someone would need to do an experiment to debunk or prove this
Would you like to?

If you look out of your window right now, what can you see that is small and far away? How small and far away is it?
 

Chew

Senior Member
So would the isis be hot or cold ? i thought whatever the sun hit in space would heat it up to 3000+ degrees ...
It would be the temperature it was designed to maintain.

You confusing the temperature of the rarified atoms in the thermosphere with the temperature an object that absorbs all solar radiation will achieve if it's kept in direct sunlight for a long time. That won't exceed ~120° C.
 
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Hevach

Senior Member
Contrast is more important than size. A plane at 40,000 feet is only lit by the sun when the sky is as well, meaning it's in a low contrast visual field and thus hard to see. But at night, you can very easily see it's external lights, because they're bright and the sky is dark, giving high contrast. During the day, some of those lights are still on, but even if you can see the plane you'll never be able to make out the lights because of the low contrast.

The ISS is most visible when it's still lit by the sun but the sky isn't, and because it has a large and highly reflective surface area it's in a very high contrast visual field and thus visible. During the day, you'll never see it without some pretty serious optics (still, nothing you can't go down to the hobby store and drop a couple hundred bucks on - the hardware available to amateur astronomers off-the-shelf these days is pretty incredible) for the same reason it's hard to see the plane.

Now, as for speed, what you actually need is angular speed, not absolute. It's much, much faster than a plane, but it's slow in the sky because of distance. It takes a bit under 8 seconds to cover the width of a full moon, which is slower than an overhead airplane but still high enough to be plainly visible, which makes it more visible, not less.
 

DJC

Member
Can you see the lights?
View attachment 20075
I see your point ...yes you can see the lights not great but yes .....but what we saw that night was the space station the shape everything was the same it looked like that video there was no question to us anyways it was the ISS ..so was it real at 270 miles away.....this is what makes me wonder... hoax or real? as far as debunking flat earth on this thread by seeing the isis ..i don't think that does it .
 

DJC

Member
Contrast is more important than size. A plane at 40,000 feet is only lit by the sun when the sky is as well, meaning it's in a low contrast visual field and thus hard to see. But at night, you can very easily see it's external lights, because they're bright and the sky is dark, giving high contrast. During the day, some of those lights are still on, but even if you can see the plane you'll never be able to make out the lights because of the low contrast.

The ISS is most visible when it's still lit by the sun but the sky isn't, and because it has a large and highly reflective surface area it's in a very high contrast visual field and thus visible. During the day, you'll never see it without some pretty serious optics (still, nothing you can't go down to the hobby store and drop a couple hundred bucks on - the hardware available to amateur astronomers off-the-shelf these days is pretty incredible) for the same reason it's hard to see the plane.

Now, as for speed, what you actually need is angular speed, not absolute. It's much, much faster than a plane, but it's slow in the sky because of distance. It takes a bit under 8 seconds to cover the width of a full moon, which is slower than an overhead airplane but still high enough to be plainly visible, which makes it more visible, not less.
if the earth is 24000 miles in circumference and the space station is 270 miles away .how long would it take to cross the earth at 17000 miles an hour ? and how far is our line of sight at 17000 miles an hour going to be ?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
but what we saw that night was the space station the shape everything was the same it looked like that video there was no question to us anyways it was the ISS
I don't know what you saw, but it wasn't the ISS. It was probably an odd shaped plane, or maybe even a drone.

On the subject of seeing distant lights, can you (at night, from where you live) see the red light on top of Landmark Place?
20160726-163006-abctn.jpg
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
if the earth is 24000 miles and the space station is 270 miles away .how long would it take to cross the earth at 17000 miles an hour ?
92 minutes.

http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/ask/282-How-fast-does-the-Space-Station-travel-
 

Chew

Senior Member
but what we saw that night was the space station the shape everything was the same it looked like that video there was no question to us anyways it was the ISS
How did you determine it was the ISS?
 

DJC

Member
92 minutes.

http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/ask/282-How-fast-does-the-Space-Station-travel-
So would we be able to see this ....its supposedly travelling at 10 x the speed of a bullet ....
 

DJC

Member
How did you determine it was the ISS?
It looked exactly like the pics ....we all saw it and thought wow ....only after did i think about the speed and distance ....hence i think there might be some kind of hoax involved ..and they had it in the paper that it was the isis let me check last year article it was about this time last summer
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Being 249 miles up away does not make a huge difference.

Radius of Earth = 3959, so diameter of earth = 3959*2*3.14159 = 24875 miles
Radius of orbit = 3959+249 so diameter of earth = (3959+249)*2*3.14159 = 26439 miles, an extra 1562 miles, or 6%
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So would we be able to see this ....its supposedly travelling at 10 x the speed of a bullet ....
Speed is not important, it's how long it takes to cross your field of view, and it actually takes several minutes, because it's so far away.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So would we be able to see this ....its supposedly travelling at 10 x the speed of a bullet ....
Have you ever seen a shooting star? A meteorite burning up in the earths atmosphere? They are going around 100,000 mph, and you can still see them move across the sky.
 

DJC

Member
Speed is not important, it's how long it takes to cross your field of view, and it actually takes several minutes, because it's so far away.
the speed 10 x a bullet the distance the temperatures up or down seeing it with a naked eye or not.....all good questions I'm afraid we can't answer ...we just don't know ..
 

Chew

Senior Member
which i do not believe now
I recommend getting the Sputnik! app for the iPhone. It's free. It gives predictions for visible ISS passes and Iridium flares. It allows you to set a 10 minute reminder. Ensure location service is enabled.

If you don't have an iPhone then get the Heavens-Above app for Android. Or just visit heavens-above dot com.

I've seen around a hundred passes of the ISS and around a hundred Iridium flares.
 

DJC

Member
Yes we do. Why don't you sign up for the alerts here:
https://spotthestation.nasa.gov/

And then watch the ISS with your naked eyes as it flies over.
What if .....its not the space station ..what if its something else and they are telling us its the space station ? I guess its comes down to either we trust nasa or not ..and from some things I've been looking at lately i do not .i did up until a few months go but now....well I'm here on this site looking for answers obviously .
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
What if .....its not the space station ..what if its something else and they are telling us its the space station ? I guess its comes down to either we trust nasa or not .
Not really, you can do the math and figure out if it could be something else.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Earlier this month I recorded with my iPhone the ISS exiting the Earth's shadow exactly when and where it was predicted to.
If an enterprising Flat Earther wanted to disprove the Globe Earth theory then a good way to do it would be to record this event from two (or preferably three) locations that are 50 miles apart. Compare the time and the heading and elevation angles to the predicted values. If the world is flat then it's impossible to fake this correctly for all locations.

Even more enterprising, you could take the elevation and heading angles and calculate where the ISS actually is.
 

Chew

Senior Member
Two flat earthers a mile apart could each take a one second exposure of the ISS simultaneously and calculate the parallax by comparing the background stars.

But I've had more than one flat earther tell me they're not going to bother getting the Sputnik! app and go outside and watch a visible pass because the ISS doesn't exist.
 
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Inti

Active Member
I see your point ...yes you can see the lights not great but yes .....but what we saw that night was the space station the shape everything was the same it looked like that video there was no question to us anyways it was the ISS ..so was it real at 270 miles away.....this is what makes me wonder... hoax or real? as far as debunking flat earth on this thread by seeing the isis ..i don't think that does it .
But that was the point of my animation. If it was not at 270 miles, but it was at the correct angle from your point of view, then it would have to be at the wrong angle from any other viewpoint on the ground. That's clear from the geometry of the situation.

So how could anyone fake it so that any person, at any position on earth would still be able to see the fake at the correct angle above them. The only way to do that is to put the alleged fake at the real position and orbit of the ISS. And if you can do that, it debunks the Flat Earth just as well as the real ISS!
 

Inti

Active Member
the speed 10 x a bullet the distance the temperatures up or down seeing it with a naked eye or not.....all good questions I'm afraid we can't answer ...we just don't know ..
But each of those questions have been answered here. Chew answered the temperature and linked to a longer discussion. Mick has answered the speed/bullet argument. Why are you not accepting those answers?
 

Inti

Active Member
What if .....its not the space station ..what if its something else and they are telling us its the space station ? I guess its comes down to either we trust nasa or not ..and from some things I've been looking at lately i do not .i did up until a few months go but now....well I'm here on this site looking for answers obviously .
First, if it was something also in the same orbit, that proves that the flat earth is false, because that orbit makes no sense over a flat disk world. That's why flat earth believers made up the drone or u2 explanation in the first place. That have to say that it is much lower in the sky than 270 miles, because they deny that ant satellite is possible at that he eight. So the "something else" is a harmful to their claim ad the real ISS.



In any case, why should we assume it is something else, when it is simpler and more likely that it is the ISS based on the evidence we have? There is no evidence that it is something else, independent of the desparation of flat earthers to explain away a piece of evidence that ruins their story.
 

DJC

Member
If an enterprising Flat Earther wanted to disprove the Globe Earth theory then a good way to do it would be to record this event from two (or preferably three) locations that are 50 miles apart. Compare the time and the heading and elevation angles to the predicted values. If the world is flat then it's impossible to fake this correctly for all locations.

Even more enterprising, you could take the elevation and heading angles and calculate where the ISS actually is.
First, if it was something also in the same orbit, that proves that the flat earth is false, because that orbit makes no sense over a flat disk world. That's why flat earth believers made up the drone or u2 explanation in the first place. That have to say that it is much lower in the sky than 270 miles, because they deny that ant satellite is possible at that he eight. So the "something else" is a harmful to their claim ad the real ISS.



In any case, why should we assume it is something else, when it is simpler and more likely that it is the ISS based on the evidence we have? There is no evidence that it is something else, independent of the desparation of flat earthers to explain away a piece of evidence that ruins their story.
First, if it was something also in the same orbit, that proves that the flat earth is false, because that orbit makes no sense over a flat disk world. That's why flat earth believers made up the drone or u2 explanation in the first place. That have to say that it is much lower in the sky than 270 miles, because they deny that ant satellite is possible at that he eight. So the "something else" is a harmful to their claim ad the real ISS.



In any case, why should we assume it is something else, when it is simpler and more likely that it is the ISS based on the evidence we have? There is no evidence that it is something else, independent of the desparation of flat earthers to explain away a piece of evidence that ruins their story.
Nasa has given us plenty of reasons to assume its something else....from water bubbles and hair sprayed hair in shifting gravity space station videos to photo shopped pics of earth to the press conferences that they cannot ansser simple questions on where the mars rover is or what type of file they used to send the pics ...i could go on for an hour ....why you blindly believe a government agency that has been caught in so many lies...why you blindly believe anything without questioning it ? period
 

Inti

Active Member
Nasa has given us plenty of reasons to assume its something else....from water bubbles and hair sprayed hair in shifting gravity space station videos to photo shopped pics of earth to the press conferences that they cannot ansser simple questions on where the mars rover is or what type of file they used to send the pics ...i could go on for an hour ....why you blindly believe a government agency that has been caught in so many lies...why you blindly believe anything without questioning it ? period

Sorry, but I've seen the alleged water bubble, clearly glitches in video. The carefully edited videos by flat earthers, like Dubay's claim of a theatrical flying harness on an astronaut- except he cut it off just before that astronauts teeshirt floats up and shows - his bare midriff, And we should accept that poor standard of evidenceas more convincing than all of modern science and technology? Sorry, no.

Nasa is one of about 50 space agencies, then there are all the universities, private space companies, amateur and professional astronomets and more. All in on the conspiracy. Not credible.

First, there are existing threads about many of these points on Metabunk. Find them and present you evidence there, please. If you have something genuinely new, please start a new thread for it. Let's not jump from one claim to another here.

I don't blindly believe, I evaluated the evidence. I have a long history, since the 1970s of political activity highly critical of various governments, including my own.

And I notice that none of this post addresses any of the criticisms and questions that I and others have put to you. It look like a diversionary tactic, or can you answer them after all?
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Nasa has given us plenty of reasons to assume its something else....from water bubbles and hair sprayed hair in shifting gravity space station videos to photo shopped pics of earth to the press conferences that they cannot ansser simple questions on where the mars rover is or what type of file they used to send the pics ...i could go on for an hour ....why you blindly believe a government agency that has been caught in so many lies...why you blindly believe anything without questioning it ? period
Perhaps you could pick one such "lie" (preferably one you can back up with evidence) and start a new thread on it.

But regardless of if you think footage from the Space Station is real, you can't deny that something is flying over people at times consistent with an orbiting space station, and that it's at 249 miles up, and that it's reflecting about as much light as something the size of the ISS would.

Those are verifiable facts. You can check them yourself.
 
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