Queen's Jubilee UFO (2022)

johne1618

Active Member
An object travelling through the smoke of the Red Arrows display team on the Queen's Platinum Jubilee (Thu June 2, 2022). The zoomed footage from 0:05 seems to just show a white ball.


Source: Reddit Jubilee UFO zoomed in. Thoughts?

A video from two news sources (CBS and Sky News) spliced together showing the object move backwards parallel to the Red Arrows and then stop at 0:05 and move at right angles through the colored smoke.

Source: https://youtu.be/qtM-TPRJu_w

A cockpit view of a white object going through the Red Arrow smoke very fast at 0:03 and then slowed down and repeated at 0:09 and 0:18.


Source Reddit: Found another angle of the Jubilee UFO
 
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jarlrmai

Senior Member
Initial thoughts are it looks like a balloon with parallax from a tracking helicopter telephoto shot making it look like it is moving quickly.
 

TopBunk

Active Member
First one is pretty obviously a balloon.
The second one is a cabin reflection as you can see in this clip, it jumps around on the left side of the frame.
More obvious if you watch the full video here: Source: https://youtu.be/1U5UmXz3PIc
 

Attachments

  • RedArrowsDiamonJubilee_clip.mp4
    8 MB

Max Phalange

Active Member
From a cursory look, the second video doesn't seem to be in the same place as the first (or show the same thing, for that matter).

1654382595341.png

This is the approximate viewpoint of the first video.
(edit: removed google maps links as apparently you can't link to a 3D viewpoint - it looks like they are over St James's Park/The Mall).

The second one they're a fair bit further east when the "object" puts in an appearance.

1654383141003.png

I don't think you can get the view in the first video if the planes are in the position shown in the second video. Maybe someone can figure out where the camera helicopter was and reconstruct the scene.
 
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Mendel

Senior Member.
my first thought was, "probably someone with a drone trying to get a good shot". I'm probably wrong, and identifying white dots is certainly an interesting hobby—but why would anyone's first thought be, "this could be a UFO"?
 

TopBunk

Active Member
the object move backwards parallel to the Red Arrows and then stop at 0:05 and move at right angles through the colored smoke.
This is nonsense. The object is in front of the smoke, exhibits no such movements, and is most likely nowhere near the flight path of the Red Arrows.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
This is nonsense. The object is in front of the smoke, exhibits no such movements, and is most likely nowhere near the flight path of the Red Arrows.
in fact, it's the camera platform that moves at first parallel to the Red Arrows and then changes direction to move across their track.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
I'm checking ADS-B Exchange for the fly past time but whilst I can see other aircraft involved (Lancaster and some military Lynx and Puma helicopters) I can't see the Red Arrows.

I think I also have the filming helicopters.

It's possible that they were not transmitting but usually display aircraft do, but maybe not the Red Arrows?

Does anyone have a more precise time the jubilee flypast over the Thames video was filmed? As the schedule gives a range of times.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
The helicopters (there was way more helicopters than on ADS-B) fly over City of London at ~12:00 UTC, you can see the Lancaster and Spitfire (there were 4 Spitfires) and then 3 Hercules (accurate number to reality) and a RAF Airbus A400 etc etc all in the flight line behind them.

Here's an independent rooftop filming of the flypast, you can compare the ADS-B data to the pictures, most of the big transport/support planes are on there and a few of the Typhoons.

There are I think 4 non Red Arrow Hawks at 13:05, then 15 Typhoons in a 70 formation then the Red Arrows in classic V display with smoke at 13:06. One of the 4 non Red Arrow Hawks is on ADS-B, 3 of the Typhoons are as well, and non of the Red Arrows are, but they all seem to follow the same path so I thing we can use the Single Hawk path to get a fairly accurate path for the Red Arrows.

Watching this back (I'm not a massive fan of the Royals and was out doing bird photography at the time..) that's a lot of aircraft.

Source: https://youtu.be/hwSEzX4ZGDY?t=2943

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=43c6fb&lat=51.558&lon=-0.066&zoom=12.2&showTrace=2022-06-02

1654419132377.png
 
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jarlrmai

Senior Member
Here's my camera recreation in Earth for a frame for the second 'object' which is pretty much almost certainly a cockpit reflection given it fades out as the one on the right does.

1654425144123.png
 

TopBunk

Active Member
"path" may be a tad misleading
It describes the direction the aircraft travelled. It's not granular detail but I was responding to [#4] and the question of how the film clips should be ordered based on landmarks.
"The flypast will start in the vicinity of The Wash, The North Sea and Southwold, Suffolk and Southend then route from the hold via Swaffham and Thetford and Colchester towards London to overfly Buckingham Palace."
 

Easy Muffin

Active Member
I'm checking ADS-B Exchange for the fly past time but whilst I can see other aircraft involved (Lancaster and some military Lynx and Puma helicopters) I can't see the Red Arrows.

I think I also have the filming helicopters.

It's possible that they were not transmitting but usually display aircraft do, but maybe not the Red Arrows?

Does anyone have a more precise time the jubilee flypast over the Thames video was filmed? As the schedule gives a range of times.
It's true that the Red Arrows don't show up in ADS-B but from video footage it appears that they followed the '70' Typhoons by some 30 seconds.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taXXQlgLNOg
The Typhoons at 3:24:28 fly past the same clouds as the Red Arrows at 3:25:01. From that we can deduct that they crossed The Mall shortly past 12:06Z. The Typhoons reported their altitude as 900 ft but from matching views in Google Earth it would appear that the Red Arrows were a tad higher, possibly at around 1100 ft.

The camera view is from the GMPSA helicopter, which at this time is heading north over the Thames near Hungerford Bridge.
I came up with these three sightlines, all roughly a second apart.

1.jpg
(Note that this is not the heli view but zoomed further out.)

The shaded wall marks the flightpath along The Mall. It goes up to 1100 ft.

The heli covered about 70-80 metres in those three or four seconds, which is entirely consistent with the reported ADS-B groundspeed of 50-60 kts (25-30 m/s).

The question mark is over the spot where the lines meet at an altitude of 415 m. It's about halfway between the heli and those thousands of people at The Mall. About 380 m either way. Parallax from a moving camera plus a stationary or slow-moving object like a balloon would perfectly fit here.

Yup, these videos give exactly the same impression I got from playing around in GE.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
It's true that the Red Arrows don't show up in ADS-B but from video footage it appears that they followed the '70' Typhoons by some 30 seconds.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taXXQlgLNOg
The Typhoons at 3:24:28 fly past the same clouds as the Red Arrows at 3:25:01. From that we can deduct that they crossed The Mall shorty past 12:06Z. The Typhoons reported their altitude as 900 ft but from matching views in Google Earth it would appear that the Red Arrows were a tad higher, possibly at around 1100 ft.

The camera view is from the GMPSA helicopter, which at this time is heading north over the Thames near Hungerford Bridge.
I came up with these three sightlines, all roughly a second apart.

1.jpg
(Note that this is not the heli view but zoomed further out.)

The shaded wall marks the flightpath along The Mall. It goes up to 1100 ft.

The heli covered about 70-80 metres in those three or four seconds, which is entirely consistent with the reported ADS-B groundspeed of 50-60 kts (25-30 m/s).

The question mark is over the spot where the lines meet at an altitude of 415 m. It's about halfway between the heli and those thousands of people at The Mall. About 380 m either way. Parallax from a moving camera plus a stationary or slow-moving object like a balloon would perfectly fit here.


Yup, these videos give exactly the same impression I got from playing around in GE.
Yeah I've been using other paths to get a a good match, but it would be nice to have a Red Arrow path to match up TV heli and flight for a photo recreation to compare with the onboard video.
 

TopBunk

Active Member
I'm amazed at all the focus on this white balloon when this clip clearly shows an inter-dimensional pyramid craft carrying upwards of 6 Pleiadians arriving to complete their mission with London's starseeds.

RedArrowsPyramid.gif
 
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johne1618

Active Member
I accept that the third video in post#1 taken from inside one of the jets is of a different event to that shown in videos one and two.

But what is that white object shooting through the red smoke?

It is travelling too fast to be a bird or a balloon. I guess it could be a glint on the windshield.
 
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jarlrmai

Senior Member
I accept that the third video in post#1 taken from inside one of the jets is of a different event to that shown in videos one and two.

But what is that white object shooting through the red smoke?

It is travelling too fast to be a bird or a balloon.
It's an internal reflection of something compare it over the same frames with this object circled in black it seems to crop up for a few frames with streaking etc

1654435578450.png
There then also seems to be distant reflection from a building or something later on
1654435915180.png
Then as you see the other Red Arrows though the smoke, this looks like a glint from a canopy
1654435932082.png

So it looks like there may be a series of different reflections from the sun showing up in similar places, giving the illusion of a moving object.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
You can get a log from the "Export KML" button at the bottom left on ADSB Exchange replay.

Screen Shot 2022-06-05 at 14.43.04.png
thanks, yeah I figured it out, It's still hard to get the position of the TV chopper when the Red Arrows were filmed though it seems to swing across the river, so it's a moving as a platform as well as tracking the jets.
 

Easy Muffin

Active Member
Which Helicopter do we thing the footage actually came from? There are 2 candidates

GTVHD and GMPSA

I feel GTVHD is more likely but I see others have used GMPSA but this appears to be a police helicopter

https://www.jetphotos.com/registration/G-MPSA
https://www.jetphotos.com/registration/G-TVHD
I was thinking HD at first but the sightlines didn't quite match. By 12:06:10 it starts to leave the area and moves north towards (and eventually across) the path of the flyby. Instead it's SA that moves into the correct position. It would be key to know the precise time of the Red Arrows flyby.
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
I was thinking HD at first but the sightlines didn't quite match. By 12:06:10 it starts to leave the area and moves north towards (and eventually across) the path of the flyby. Instead it's SA that moves into the correct position. It would be key to know the precise time of the Red Arrows flyby.
But the other helicopter is police as far as I can tell.
 

jackfrostvc

Active Member
I accept that the third video in post#1 taken from inside one of the jets is of a different event to that shown in videos one and two.

But what is that white object shooting through the red smoke?

It is travelling too fast to be a bird or a balloon.

The video in the tweet you posted below. Open it up full screen and watch it.
Take particular notice of the white dots of the sun glinting of things on the ground. You can see lots as the vikdeo plays out right under the jet to left out the cockpit.
That's what you are seeing in the 3rd video you had posted. Glints off sun light of things

Source: https://twitter.com/rafredarrows/status/1533103121320357895?s=20&t=O-hRPGLdBNt3RPRpgQZXWA
 

flarkey

Senior Member
I was thinking HD at first but the sightlines didn't quite match. By 12:06:10 it starts to leave the area and moves north towards (and eventually across) the path of the flyby. Instead it's SA that moves into the correct position. It would be key to know the precise time of the Red Arrows flyby.
Yeah, i've noticed that the timing on ADSB and FR24 replay can be a little out sometimes. The Aircraft are only transmitting at a rate of once every 5 seconds. And yes, unfortnately the Red Arrows dont normally broadcast thier position (athough I have seen a single Red on FR24 before) We know the Reds were behind the 70 Formation, which I have crudely modelled in the graphics below. I've tried to estimate the spacing from the overview screengrab, and then closer in to show how th G-TVHD helicopter would have moved as the Red Arrows went past.

Screen Shot 2022-06-05 at 15.17.14.png

This is as close to the exact timing of the appearance of the "orb".
Screen Shot 2022-06-05 at 15.17.05.png
 

Easy Muffin

Active Member
Right, I had a closer look now and I think you guys are right. It's probably TVHD.

Based on my earlier assumption that the Red Arrows trail the Typhoons by haIf a minute I marked out 30-sec trails for the last Typhoon (ZK428) and the two helis. BTW ignore the exported KML tracks' altitudes. They're wrong.

2.jpg

So the RA's are likely at the end of the solid ZK428 segment. With some lining up I got a view similar to the video at 12:55:56 from the position of TVHD. I assumed 850 ft for the Arrows' altitude (so quite a bit lower than I originally thought) and 1600 ft for the chopper. Doesn't really help that the reported altitude goes from 1700 to 1500 during this time frame...

3.jpg

Anyway the thing is that this doesn't change a whole lot in the end. The three sightlines I made from the new positions still insersect near The Mall, they only meet a little bit further east now, towards Waterloo Station. A balloon or some other floating object still fits nicely.

But the other helicopter is police as far as I can tell.
I noticed it's got a camera fitted in some pictures but that's still a really good point actually :D
 

jarlrmai

Senior Member
So the objections so far are

The other video: Does not show the same thing
The curve in path: Caused by the helicopter moving while the camera is tracking the red arrows? I think @Mick West needs to check this thread, the planes are flying straight at this point from what we can tell so the curve in parallax probably comes from motion of the filming helicopter?

Might be one for SitRec
 

TopBunk

Active Member
People who bought this horseshit also bought


*a Metabunk exclusive - it'll be interesting to see if this somehow gets retweeted as a real UFO sighting and then returns as a Metabunk thread...

RedArrows_a_Fly_Flies_by.gif
 
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jarlrmai

Senior Member
This case makes me hate Google Earth, there's just no easy way to position a camera over a point and move it around.

It clearly could be made to do it, it just doesn't allow it. But it has all the building models and terrain, especially for a place like central London, you could get easy matches for frame grabs from these videos but alas.
 

TopBunk

Active Member
This case makes me hate Google Earth, there's just no easy way to position a camera over a point and move it around.

It clearly could be made to do it, it just doesn't allow it. But it has all the building models and terrain, especially for a place like central London, you could get easy matches for frame grabs from these videos but alas.
Have you tried Google Earth Studio? Seems designed to do exactly what can't be done in GE. For example you can export a KML path file to it and have the camera follow the path but also be positioned exactly where you want it.
 
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