Male or Female?

Are you male or female?

  • Male

    Votes: 45 81.8%
  • Female

    Votes: 9 16.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 1.8%

  • Total voters
    55

deirdre

Moderator
Staff member
Now back to our only borderline sexist discussion......:D
i dont know how other women feel, but the only 'sexist' (kinda) thing that stands out to me in discussing such issues is: What makes men think we need their help? It seems the question men are asking is "what can we do to get more women into the 'elite' scepticism circle".

My question is "why do you need more women?" It's not like men really listen to us anyway (be honest).

Women are perfectly capable of building a website and forming a group if they so choose. and they do! It's not like our only option is to join 'mens' groups. I think women are probably just as sceptical, and we might even 'debunk' MORE than men, we just maybe do it in a different way...more one on one or in small social circles. like what @JRBids was saying and what @Cairenn does.

the thing about women. We like to talk. So we talk about everything! :)

I used to follow some autism and vaccine groups- primarily women- on AOL and some other defunct social network. There was discussion. With both sides of the issue represented. and the 'debunkers' would give statistics and links to studies etc. And nothing ever got heated..well once i had half the mothers in Oregon calling me the Anti-Christ... but that was just a misunderstanding that was resolved rather quickly.

So we cant really say 'women arent as interested in debunking as men', based on attendance or involvement with ISF or even Metabunk.

It is more pleasant not having men around for mothery type topics. (no offense) Its easier to get through to other women without men ticking them off. The only downside is its a smaller group of women you are reaching at a time, so its kinda exhausting that way. Very time intensive.

I dont think they, (ISF), want more women in their circles, they want more "intellectual" "evolved" (ie atheists) women. and for that the current women need to start reaching out to college campuses. Organize the college girls, encourage on-campus FEMALE "sceptic groups", and once those gals start joining the 'online sceptic sites' as members, theyll tell you if you need to change something about the site.

Personally i dont care how many sceptic women there are. I care how many women are READING the sceptic sites and/or at least talking amongst themselves about these issues.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member
It's not like men really listen to us anyway (be honest).
A debunk from a woman would carry as much weight as one from a man (given the same quality of accuracy and clearness). It would be absurd and irrational in the extreme to reject information depending on the gender of the communicator and no self-respecting critical thinker would ever do that.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
A debunk from a woman would carry as much weight as one from a man (given the same quality of accuracy and clearness). It would be absurd and irrational in the extreme to reject information depending on the gender of the communicator and no self-respecting critical thinker would ever do that.
That's a somewhat idealized view of reality. Not only are most people not very good critical thinkers, but even the good ones have varying degrees of gender preconceptions.
 

deirdre

Moderator
Staff member
That's a somewhat idealized view of reality. Not only are most people not very good critical thinkers, but even the good ones have varying degrees of gender preconceptions.
i saw this last night..speaking of critical thinking
A debunk from a woman would carry as much weight as one from a man (given the same quality of accuracy and clearness). It would be absurd and irrational in the extreme to reject information depending on the gender of the communicator and no self-respecting critical thinker would ever do that.
Metabunk men are better than most in that regards. Actually Metabunk men are better than most in many regards. But Metabunk is not typical, IMO.

"clearness" is an interesting word. So basically, as long as we write and express and think like men :)


edit add: oh and i saw this last night. which i found interesting, i always say i dont "think in words" and feel stupid saying that. But apparently i'm not the only one!

Left_Vs_Right_Brain.gif

 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It seems about 2/3 male reading here at Metabunk.
And Snopes.com is apparently 2/3 female. So women are certainly interested in checking if stuff is true or not.
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/snopes.com

Metabunk, as @deirdre noted ("planes planes planes building construction military military military building construction isis isis isis planes planes planes."), has a bit of a more narrow focus, more engineering/mathematical topics (and modes of discussion) that tend to be of less interest to women.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Some interesting Metabunk gender stats:


More men, and they tend to be significantly more likely to click on another page.

Here's age stats:

Older people pay more attention.

Looks like my most interested audience is males aged 45-54. Which is me.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member
"clearness" is an interesting word. So basically, as long as we write and express and think like men
Clarity is an essential component in any debunk and a basic cognitive function, certainly not something I would imagine is gender exclusive. If it is then I seriously have to re-evaluate my ideas of gender equality.
I'm not sure if you're just toying with me or not.
 

deirdre

Moderator
Staff member
Clarity is an essential component in any debunk and a basic cognitive function, certainly not something I would imagine is gender exclusive. If it is then I seriously have to re-evaluate my ideas of gender equality.
I'm not sure if you're just toying with me or not.
:) no i'm not toying with you. Many times what is perfectly clear to me, seems to be completely lost on some members.
And often what other members seem to think is perfectly clear, is lost on me.

add: Remember in teh Big Bang Theory when Penny says to Sheldon "sweetie, i know you think youre answering the question, but youre really not"

I think alot of it is right brain/left brain processing and thinking. Which neither is exclusively male or female, everybody's circuitry as far as which hemisphere is dominant for what thinking process is slightly different. I think alot of women are more "right brain" thinkers. This of course, imo, is primarily due to environmental factors/nurturing. But some could possibly be genetic.. i might look into that more as its interesting.

For ex.. with young children aged say 4-6 first learnign to do multiple piece puzzles. When you do puzzles with them there is a noticeable difference between boys and girls. girls 'primarily' look for the picture/the color. Boys... i dont know what their brains are doing because it makes no sense, but it works fine as far as putting the puzzle together.. i think boys maybe look at the SHAPE of the piece more than the picture printed on it. Geek little boys esp this is very noticeable. They are excellant with the straight edges, which girls typically have quite some trouble with and they seem completely oblivious to the actual picture even when the color is right there in front of their face! Its cute. and weird. But i think it a matter of left brain vs right brain dominance.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
For ex.. with young children aged say 4-6 first learnign to do multiple piece puzzles. When you do puzzles with them there is a noticeable difference between boys and girls. girls 'primarily' look for the picture/the color. Boys... i dont know what their brains are doing because it makes no sense, but it works fine as far as putting the puzzle together.. i think boys maybe look at the SHAPE of the piece more than the picture printed on it. Geek little boys esp this is very noticeable. They are excellant with the straight edges, which girls typically have quite some trouble with and they seem completely oblivious to the actual picture even when the color is right there in front of their face! Its cute. and weird. But i think it a matter of left brain vs right brain dominance.
Come on, everybody knows that to do a jigsaw most efficiently you first find all the straight edges! What kind of fuzzy female brain looks at the pretty colours? ;)
 

Santa's sidekick

Senior Member
There are many gender differences in psychology and neurology, some of which are genetic (wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_human_psychology).

That said, I think there's no reason to assume that any humans - male or female - are really all that good at critical thinking. Homo sapiens evolved to swing clubs, build huts and inspire each other to bash skulls; the job description doesn't include rumination on The Meaning of Life, The Universe and Everything and I see no reason to think that the applicants are capable of such. However, the job does involve self-deception (possibly as a mechanism to better deceive others, according to the great evolutionary psychologist Robert Trivers), and given that we now have a lot of evidence that self-deception is a major part of the way we think about almost anything, it seems unreasonable to assume that our critical thinking ever is truly free of distortion.

(Edit - Furthermore, self-deception makes a mockery of even our attempts at appraisal of our critical thinking.)
 
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Santa's sidekick

Senior Member
Some interesting Metabunk gender stats:


More men, and they tend to be significantly more likely to click on another page.

Here's age stats:

Older people pay more attention.

Looks like my most interested audience is males aged 45-54. Which is me.
Just out of curiosity, how do you track these figures? Also, is anything known about the age breakdown of members here?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Just out of curiosity, how do you track these figures? Also, is anything known about the age breakdown of members here?
It's Google Analytics, it's an estimate, but as we get a few thousand visits a day from Google searches, it evens out.

There's no info on the age of members, but suspect it tends a bit older.
 

Santa's sidekick

Senior Member
Looks like my most interested audience is males aged 45-54. Which is me.
That's quite interesting - I had been under the impression that susceptibility to CT belief is a feature of youth, and further that reluctance to challenge one's beliefs is a feature of age. Perhaps I'm wrong on both counts?

At any rate, at least that would seem to square with
There's no info on the age of members, but suspect it tends a bit older.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
That's quite interesting - I had been under the impression that susceptibility to CT belief is a feature of youth, and further that reluctance to challenge one's beliefs is a feature of age. Perhaps I'm wrong on both counts?
We get more visitors in the younger demographic, they just tend to read the one article. I think believers will probably be more likely to leave immediately after arriving.

With young people, the problem is not reluctance to change their beliefs, it's the willingness to believe everything they read and hear.
 

artex

New Member
I can't recall if it was an option signing up but a gender neutral option should certainly be included. Especially if you want to be open to 'everyone' going into the future. Lifes probably been tougher for such folk so may automatically veer to the side they feel more accepted.
 

Santa's sidekick

Senior Member
I can't recall if it was an option signing up but a gender neutral option should certainly be included. Especially if you want to be open to 'everyone' going into the future. Lifes probably been tougher for such folk so may automatically veer to the side they feel more accepted.
Touché, but not entering any gender is itself sort of a 'gender neutral' option, isn't it?

The way I see it, there are two genders, and some people fit into 'male', some into 'female', and some into neither - ie 'neutral' is the lack of a gender, not a gender in and of itself (I hope this isn't an insensitive position!). Perhaps you see it differently?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I can't recall if it was an option signing up but a gender neutral option should certainly be included. Especially if you want to be open to 'everyone' going into the future. Lifes probably been tougher for such folk so may automatically veer to the side they feel more accepted.
Currently the options are:
20150728-082339-16l6p.jpg
With the default being "unspecified". About 80% of the people who registered this year picked a gender. I suspect many who did not simply missed the option.

Theres no easy way to add options there anyway, I could remove it entirely - but then it's optional, and not something I think people pay attention to.
 

Santa's sidekick

Senior Member
With young people, the problem is not reluctance to change their beliefs, it's the willingness to believe everything they read and hear.
I mostly agree, but I wouldn't quite put it that way - I find that when I argue with my friends, who are mostly university students, I find a lot of reluctance to concede even when it's clear that they have no counter-argument - these arguments often end with blank stares and begrudging 'Really?'s. But I have also found that sometimes they will re-examine their opinions (I've converted a handful of initially conservative friends into moderate-centrist types and at least one into a social-democrat!) whereas I cannot recall ever having made an older person change her mind. (Given my political and philosophical positions, it's almost inevitable that I find at least one significant area of disagreement with everyone I discuss these topics with.)
 
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deirdre

Moderator
Staff member
I mostly agree, but I wouldn't quite put it that way - I find that when I argue with my friends, who are mostly university students, I find a lot of reluctance to concede even when it's clear that they have no counter-argument
it's their willingness (wanting) to believe more 'fantastical' things, anti-establishment things. "The Man is bad" (in America "The Man" is mostly cops but also gov and parents to an extent).
They also still like "stories", vampires and zombies and the evil queen becomes the evil government. Her henchmen become cops.
It's not a condemnation on young people. at all! It's just how development works. Their database of experience is still small and they are still outgrowing "a story before bed".

That's just a developmental thing, and is perfectly normal.

Also..."parents (adults) are stupid and old fashioned neanderthals". Non-Conformity IS a major part of what that phase of development is all about. That's why every young generation find physical ways to non-conform too. My generation was putting 6 earrings in each ear and dying your hair pink, then came tribal tattoos and such, then they started sticking jewelry in their faces, now they stretch out their earlobes and wear funny hats.

If they believed everything they hear, they would listen to [responsible, no-fun] adults who give them advice! But by and large, they don't.
 
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artex

New Member
Currently the options are:
View attachment 14047
With the default being "unspecified". About 80% of the people who registered this year picked a gender. I suspect many who did not simply missed the option.

Theres no easy way to add options there anyway, I could remove it entirely - but then it's optional, and not something I think people pay attention to.
unspecified is a good option :)

improved emoticons/smileys could/would probably appeal to people though (expressions) ;)

time is of the essence x

us gals tend to get bored easily x pressing topics tend to relate around our kids x

it's borderline a gentlemans club x

keep it that way xxxx
 

artex

New Member
Touché, but not entering any gender is itself sort of a 'gender neutral' option, isn't it?

The way I see it, there are two genders, and some people fit into 'male', some into 'female', and some into neither - ie 'neutral' is the lack of a gender, not a gender in and of itself (I hope this isn't an insensitive position!). Perhaps you see it differently?
'lack' is probably insensitive o_O
 

JRBids

Senior Member
That's a somewhat idealized view of reality. Not only are most people not very good critical thinkers, but even the good ones have varying degrees of gender preconceptions.

Most people think I am male. No matter what screen name I've ever used. Except my real name, Janet, LOL. :)
 

JRBids

Senior Member
Come on, everybody knows that to do a jigsaw most efficiently you first find all the straight edges! What kind of fuzzy female brain looks at the pretty colours? ;)
Um, other than looking for the straight pieces, cause they're the frame, the colors is the major way I put a puzzle together.
 

Marin B

Active Member
and speaking of gender, I see that my avatar is no longer the Venus symbol. I like it, thanks!
I confess to having to resort to Wikipedia to find out what to call the female symbol - seems like something I should have known but didn't. Wikipedia shows a variety of other symbols that could be used for a newbie's avatar if "unspecified" is selected. ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_symbol
 

JRBids

Senior Member
There are many gender differences in psychology and neurology, some of which are genetic (wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_human_psychology).

That said, I think there's no reason to assume that any humans - male or female - are really all that good at critical thinking. Homo sapiens evolved to swing clubs, build huts and inspire each other to bash skulls; the job description doesn't include rumination on The Meaning of Life, The Universe and Everything and I see no reason to think that the applicants are capable of such. However, the job does involve self-deception (possibly as a mechanism to better deceive others, according to the great evolutionary psychologist Robert Trivers), and given that we now have a lot of evidence that self-deception is a major part of the way we think about almost anything, it seems unreasonable to assume that our critical thinking ever is truly free of distortion.

(Edit - Furthermore, self-deception makes a mockery of even our attempts at appraisal of our critical thinking.)

I used to write book indexes, mostly psych, sociology books, and one interesting thing I read was that when little girls and little boys play, girls usually insisted on sticking to the rules, while boys changed the rules to suit the flow of the game.
 

JRBids

Senior Member
it's their willingness (wanting) to believe more 'fantastical' things, anti-establishment things. "The Man is bad" (in America "The Man" is mostly cops but also gov and parents to an extent).
They also still like "stories", vampires and zombies and the evil queen becomes the evil government. Her henchmen become cops.
It's not a condemnation on young people. at all! It's just how development works. Their database of experience is still small and they are still outgrowing "a story before bed".

That's just a developmental thing, and is perfectly normal.

Also..."parents (adults) are stupid and old fashioned neanderthals". Non-Conformity IS a major part of what that phase of development is all about. That's why every young generation find physical ways to non-conform too. My generation was putting 6 earrings in each ear and dying your hair pink, then came tribal tattoos and such, then they started sticking jewelry in their faces, now they stretch out their earlobes and wear funny hats.

If they believed everything they hear, they would listen to [responsible, no-fun] adults who give them advice! But by and large, they don't.

I think there are a lot of older conspiracy believers who still believe in "stories" and don't trust anyone. I think many of the believers are cases of arrested development.
 

Spectrar Ghost

Senior Member
I used to write book indexes, mostly psych, sociology books, and one interesting thing I read was that when little girls and little boys play, girls usually insisted on sticking to the rules, while boys changed the rules to suit the flow of the game.
Calvinball does seem to be a largely male phenomenon, based on an exhaustive survey of the set "all the kids on the playground that are in earshot as I work". I have noted several particularly fluid rule sets used this summer, all in all-male or heavily male-dominated groups.

However, I'm not sure this is not also based on societal roles. Men are certainly encouraged to suit the world to themselves, while women, even successful women, more often suit themselves to the world. Cf. female execs needing to exhibit 'male' traits to advance.
 

JRBids

Senior Member
Calvinball does seem to be a largely male phenomenon, based on an exhaustive survey of the set "all the kids on the playground that are in earshot as I work". I have noted several particularly fluid rule sets used this summer, all in all-male or heavily male-dominated groups.

However, I'm not sure this is not also based on societal roles. Men are certainly encouraged to suit the world to themselves, while women, even successful women, more often suit themselves to the world. Cf. female execs needing to exhibit 'male' traits to advance.
I absolutely agree.
 

deirdre

Moderator
Staff member
I think there are a lot of older conspiracy believers who still believe in "stories" and don't trust anyone. I think many of the believers are cases of arrested development.
I think primarily they are just 'coping mechanisms'. Transference. Like many many adults do. The only difference i see vs. 'mainstream adults', is an elevated level of distrust in humanity (which is kinda hard to argue with!) and insecurity/fear.

I have a best friend, the Patsy/Edina type of relationship, and a close mom relationship...they are unconditional. I have a couple of friends though that dont really have those and they have a harder time coping with things it seems. I sometimes think about how different my life would be without those relationships. I think it would be 'unsettling'.
 

JRBids

Senior Member
I would think people who don't have close relationships would tend to be loners and might be loners because they don't trust which might make it a vicious circle that would be unsettling.
 

Santa's sidekick

Senior Member
I would think people who don't have close relationships would tend to be loners and might be loners because they don't trust which might make it a vicious circle that would be unsettling.
Many loners choose to be so because they find relationships distracting.
 
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