Luleå Archipelago Fishermen Morning UAP [Mostly Stars & Planets]

[flarkey]

More lights and drones reported by fishermen retired in the Swedish press today..


Source: https://x.com/DrBeaVillarroel/status/1977498045869588593?t=TJYTHb-_2BWC5OC5x_JAqg&s=19

https://www.kuriren.nu/nyheter/lule...-i-lulea-skargard-det-var-skrammande/re78wnyj

Source of the article is behind a pay wall but there are screenshots online that I've translated using chatGPT.

Mysterious Lights Reported Over Luleå Archipelago

In the early hours of Sunday morning, several fishermen near Luleå reported seeing strange lights in the sky — lights they could not identify and that many now suspect were drones.

Around 4 a.m., the fishing fleet departed from the harbor in Lövskär. Roughly half an hour later, between the islands of Sandön and Junkön, the first sightings were made.

"The first one was above Junkön — I thought it was a plane, but it had white, green, and red lights," said fisherman Robert Karlsson. "Then we saw another one, and soon there were many of them all around us. We're not talking about ten, but rather between fifty and a hundred."

Karlsson, a veteran sea captain, pilot, and professional fisherman, said he has never seen anything like it before.

"Never. It was frightening when you saw them all around you," he added.

Whether the objects were moving or standing still was difficult to determine.

"It's hard to say since the boat was moving. But there were no quick movements, as far as I could tell."

Another fisherman, Axel Nordmark, also witnessed the strange display. He said he saw red, green, and white lights in various directions in the sky.

"The one to the east stood out — the light was very clear," Nordmark said. "It definitely wasn't boats; I can swear to that. They were in the air."

He described the experience as unsettling.

"It felt a bit uncomfortable — that was my feeling. I experienced it as something abnormal. It was a bit strange," he said.

---

Authorities Respond

When Kuriren contacted the air traffic control tower at Kallax, staff confirmed they had also received reports of similar observations.

"I've received the same report and passed it on, but unfortunately I don't know more than that," said the duty air traffic controller.

The Swedish Armed Forces would neither confirm nor deny whether any military exercise was taking place in the area.

"All observations involving drones that are not near protected objects are handled by the police," said Vendela Kirsch, on-duty communications officer for the Armed Forces.

However, according to the police regional command center in Umeå, as of Sunday, no official reports had been filed regarding drone sightings in the Luleå area.

The Luleå archipelago is here:

"The first one was above Junkön — I thought it was a plane, but it had white, green, and red lights," said fisherman Robert Karlsson. "Then we saw another one, and soon there were many of them all around us. We're not talking about ten, but rather between fifty and a hundred."

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

The first one was above Junkön — I thought it was a plane, but it had white, green, and red lights," said fisherman Robert Karlsson.

Another fisherman, Axel Nordmark, also witnessed the strange display. He said he saw red, green, and white lights in various directions in the sky.

Sounds like bright scintillating stars. Chromatic scintillation.

Many bright stars in that morning sky.

"The one to the east stood out — the light was very clear," Nordmark said. "It definitely wasn't boats; I can swear to that. They were in the air."

Probably Venus. Maybe Jupiter.


It's tempting to say that this is Venus and Jupiter, but it's not a good match.

If I had to bet I'd say this is Venus and some aircraft. With Jupiter out of frame in this blown up and cropped image.


It looks as if they were spooked by bright scintillating stars, Venus, Jupiter and aircraft.

This report is too fragmentary to say more than that.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Karlsson, a veteran sea captain, pilot, and professional fisherman, said he has never seen anything like it before.

He would know stars and planets when he saw them, therefore these could not have been stars and planets. Checkmate, Mr. Smartypants Skeptic.


But he didn't know. Sky Shock.

The shocking thing is that he's "never seen anything like it before," because he has never looked at the sky until now when he had some motivation to do so. It seems almost unbelievable. But there's abundant empirical evidence that this is the likely scenario. Many other people who you'd think should have been looking at the sky across the decades, haven't been.

Hendry, A. (1980). The Ufo handbook: A guide to investigating, evaluating and reporting Ufo sightings. Sphere.

Stars and planets stimulated the single largest category of IFO sightings in my study. "Star" IFOs are among the easiest to resolve, even long after the event. Since we are surrounded by them all of our lives, I still find it quite remarkable that so many adults can observe a stellar body and see fit to call it in as a "UFO." Furthermore, what does it say about the total UFO phenomenon when these adults are often in groups and watch these stars for hours?

eyewitness

"The first one was above Junkön — I thought it was a plane, but it had white, green, and red lights," said fisherman Robert Karlsson. "Then we saw another one, and soon there were many of them all around us.

"It's hard to say since the boat was moving. But there were no quick movements, as far as I could tell."

Hendry, A. (1980). The Ufo handbook

CHANGING COLORS AND FLASHING LIGHTS

Starlight can be refracted into a rapid sequence of colors. Red, white, and blue are the most common although every color in the spectrum has been reported to me, including "gold" and "lavender." At the very least white starlight is seen to twinkle (scintillate) rapidly. This has often created the impression that the light belongs to an aircraft—one that never moves. The effect is especially prominent when the stars are near the horizon. Refraction does not rely on clouds or haze as some might suspect, only on atmospheric stability. The most pronounced effects can take place on the clearest nights...

Spoiler: Pages From UFO Handbook

From personal experience, I've run across many adults, at star parties and elsewhere, who will deny that the Moon is visible in daylight.

 

[JMartJr]

From personal experience, I've run across many adults, at star parties and elsewhere, who will deny that the Moon is visible in daylight.

Some discussion of that here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/daytime-moon.13875/
It has become a little side-comspiracy associated with flat Earth or the "space is fake" crowd: "They changed the moon, so it has to be fake or at least not what THEY want us to think it is..." Apologies if my eye-rolling here is so loud as to wake anybody up this morning...

 

[gargamel]

In my experience, most people are almost comically unaware of what the night sky looks like. They might recognize the Big Dipper and Orion's Belt, but that's about it.

I've lost count of how many times I've heard otherwise clever and knowledgeable people exclaim "oh look, the Pole star!" to basically whatever is the brightest point-like thing in the sky at the time. Wrong on so many levels.

Now, the heavily cropped stills in that article have a certain video frame-like quality to them, so I wonder if there is an actual clip out there.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

I don't have time right now, but we should see if satellites might have been involved.

 

[flarkey]

I don't have time right now, but we should see if satellites might have been involved.

There doesn't seem to be anything immediately obvious that could be mistaken, ie they are out of the Starlink Flare band, and there aren't any passes of the ISS at the time.

 

[taurusclover21]

"I thought it was a plane, but it had white, green, and red lights," said fisherman Robert Karlsson."

The same colors as airplane lights.

 

[Mendel]

"I thought it was a plane, but it had white, green, and red lights," said fisherman Robert Karlsson."

The same colors as airplane lights.

If they're close.

If they're far, they might only see the strobe, and that's what is on their mind when they say it didn't look like that..

 

[flarkey]

Short article on https://www.ufo.se/

Phenomenon outside Luleå

I got a tip from my friend Conny in Norrbotten that Norrbottens-Kuriren had written about an event at 04.30 on Sunday morning (12/10) in the waters off Junkön.

By Clas Svahn

After a little searching and help from a former colleague at Kuriren, I was able to interview two of the fishermen who had seen the whole thing. And one of them had also taken quite shaky and blurry pictures of some of the lights.

Image: One of the pictures the fisherman took.

In the meantime, speculation continued as usual on Facebook where people guessed high and low without having any idea if their guesses had anything to do with reality. Drones (Russian) were high on the list while others went with 3I/Atlas (which can't even be seen with the naked eye). Some guessed a meteor shower.

The only problem is that it could hardly have been meteors because the objects, according to both witnesses, barely moved. That's what meteors do when they rush into the atmosphere.

The main witness, who also took the picture above, now says that he has completely written off the idea that it was a drone. Both witnesses also state when I talk to them that they saw the same thing again on Monday morning. Which does not indicate drones or meteors.

Image: Luleå and Junkön on the map

There are a lot of clues to a possible explanation but I'm waiting for the fishermen to go out again tomorrow, Tuesday (14/10) and then bring a photographer. Then maybe we can say something for sure.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

There are a lot of clues to a possible explanation but I'm waiting for the fishermen to go out again tomorrow, Tuesday (14/10) and then bring a photographer.

They should bring an amateur astronomer.

 

[jarlrmai]

They should take wide angle photos and videos on a phone and share with metadata

 

[jarlrmai]

People think that closer up photos solve UFOs but when most UFOs are lights in the sky what solves them is context and metadata

 

[JMartJr]

"I thought it was a plane, but it had white, green, and red lights," said fisherman Robert Karlsson."

The same colors as airplane lights.

If they're close.

If they're far, they might only see the strobe, and that's what is on their mind when they say it didn't look like that..

Nonetheless, it seems really odd to offer as evidence that they could not have been planes the fact that they had lights the same color as the lights on planes! One is tempted to see the old "Well it definitely was not (the thing it actually was)" trope in play here!

Or perhaps there is something lost in translation? (Or in the reporting.)

 

[Mendel]

One is tempted to see the old "Well it definitely was not (the thing it actually was)" trope in play here!

Yes.
That's usually a sign that the observer "knows" what something looks like, when it can have another appearance as well.

Example: "It hovered, so it wasn't a plane." — actually, a plane was coming towards you, as you were under the approach path, so it looked like it hovered.

So, in this case, "aircraft are high up and blink white" is what the fisherman think aircraft at night look like, and most of the time, that is actually correct.

 

[ThomasH]

Yes.
That's usually a sign that the observer "knows" what something looks like, when it can have another appearance as well.

Example: "It hovered, so it wasn't a plane." — actually, a plane was coming towards you, as you were under the approach path, so it looked like it hovered.

So, in this case, "aircraft are high up and blink white" is what the fisherman think aircraft at night look like, and most of the time, that is actually correct.

In this particular case, it's NOT planes, there really aren't any at that time up there.

 

[jarlrmai]

In this particular case, it's NOT planes, there really aren't any at that time up there.

Not everything is on ADSB

 

[ThomasH]

Not everything is on ADSB

I know but 50-100 planes I don't believe it was.

 

[Mendel]

I know but 50-100 planes I don't believe it was.

scintillating stars, and a military helicopter looking for Russian drones?

we're guessing at this point

I'm just arguing for keeping an open mind, i.e. to believe these fishermen saw some lights, but not blindly trust what they think these were or weren't.

 

[JMartJr]

50-100 mysterious lights sounds a lot like an over-estimation. Of course they could all or mostly be stars, but sitting here thinking about it I can't recall a case where a LOT of stars were mis-perceived as a LOT of UFOs.

Sure, A bright star or planet has been mistaken for A UFO pretty frequently. I would buy that some people saw a particularly bright star scintillating more than usual, and with a drone panic happening decided they were looking at something mysterious. But I have trouble believing that fishermen looking at a sky full of stars would see that as a sky full of mysterious UFO/drones/whatever.

With the acknowledgement that my personal incredulity is no more evidence of anything than is that of a UFO believer or conspiracy theorist... but it does not pass the "smell test" for me.

 

[Mick West]

I think this one is firmly in the LIZ for now. Unless we can get a photo or video with accurate DTLDs, it's not going anywhere.

 

[Mendel]

50-100 mysterious lights sounds a lot like an over-estimation. Of course they could all or mostly be stars, but sitting here thinking about it I can't recall a case where a LOT of stars were mis-perceived as a LOT of UFOs.

Sure, A bright star or planet has been mistaken for A UFO pretty frequently. I would buy that some people saw a particularly bright star scintillating more than usual, and with a drone panic happening decided they were looking at something mysterious. But I have trouble believing that fishermen looking at a sky full of stars would see that as a sky full of mysterious UFO/drones/whatever.

With the acknowledgement that my personal incredulity is no more evidence of anything than is that of a UFO believer or conspiracy theorist... but it does not pass the "smell test" for me.

my first thought was, "trial run for a drone swarm display". But then they wouldn't be there the next day, which skewed the odds strongly in favor of something more permanent.

 

[flarkey]

update from www.ufo.se....

https://www.ufo.se/index.php/lulea

Translated:

The lights over Luleå may have been explained

What sounded like a pure drone invasion now appears to have been explained by some astronomical objects.

Norrbottens-Kuriren drew attention to this on October 13th when two fishermen working in the Luleå archipelago observed something in the sky they could not identify.

By Clas Svahn (CS)

It was at 5:30 a.m. on Sunday, October 12, that fishermen Robert Karlsson and Axel Nordmark were out fishing in their respective vessels. The observation was made somewhere between Sandön and Junkön, and Robert Karlsson tells the newspaper how he saw a bright object that he first thought was a planet.

But he tells Norrbottens-Kuriren's Klas Hallvarez that planets do not blink and that this object blinked in red, green and white.

This image was taken at 5:30 a.m. on October 12 and likely shows the star Sirius. Photo: Robert Karlsson​

Something that is very true. Venus, which rose later, shone with a steady glow, as did Jupiter, which was higher up in the sky.

– Then we saw another one and when we started looking around there were lots of them, Robert Karlsson told the newspaper.
– There were lots of them. We're not talking about ten, more like between 50 and 100.

Like so many others these days, he suspected it might be drones. But neither the military nor the police could confirm this and there were no shooting exercises taking place nearby.

When I (Clas Svahn) speak to Robert Karlsson, who works as a fisherman and pilot, it has been a day since the incident. And he also tells me that it was a bright object that attracted attention:

RK: – Then the red, green and white flashed, that's when I started to wonder what it was. But now it was the same thing again today. I saw the same stationary… it must be a satellite.

CS: – No, it's not. Satellites don't stand still.

RK: – You could see it so clearly in the binoculars. And I saw it 150–155 degrees when we were east of Junkön. About south-southeast. And it is visible there all the time.

Robert Karlsson says he saw the bright object around 4:15–4:30 a.m.

– And then there was one to the right of the one that was flashing, 180 degrees and a little higher up.

This picture was taken at 04.50 and it is difficult to say what is visible in it. The picture was taken from inside the wheelhouse of the ship, so it cannot be ruled out that some of the lights are stars and other reflections. Photo: Robert Karlsson​

When I check with a star program, I find the northern hemisphere's brightest star, Sirius, right there at that time. And a little higher up, Betelgeuse shines in Orion, also bright with a magnitude of 0.43. Exactly at 180 degrees. Sirius has a magnitude of -1.47. The brighter the brightness, the lower the numbers. Minus is very bright.

During our conversation, Robert Karlsson continues to speculate about a satellite and we also discuss Starlink, which he asks me about. But none of this matches what he and Axel Nordmark saw.

CS: – You talk about a lot of objects. That there were between 50 and 100 objects. What do you mean by that?

RK: – No, it was when I looked over everything, there were those white, green ones. Like they were lanterns. Yeah, I don't know.

CS: – Did you see them today (Monday) too?

RK: – I didn't look that closely, but I probably saw 4-5 of them. I don't know if they were still or if they were moving because I was driving the boat.

When I interview Axel Nordmark, he gives a slightly different picture of what happened:

AN: – Just go outside and look when it's dark with a regular pair of binoculars. Then it flashes a little, green, red or a little white. For me it's nothing special. They're still in the same place today. It's not a big deal.

CS: – So you're saying you saw them in the same place you saw them yesterday?

AN: – Approximately. This morning, then. You can take a flight up to Luleå if you want to see this phenomenon. But I wouldn't really recommend spending money on it. In my world, it's nothing really special.

CS: – Did they move, the ones you saw?

AN: – No, no, no. Not apparently.

The conclusion is that the two bright objects that Robert Karlsson first reacted to were the stars Sirius and Betelgeuse. Through his description, he himself has pinpointed them to their exact locations in the morning sky.

What the other objects were is not as easy to say, except that they were hardly drones. They would not have appeared in exactly the same place and at the same time two days in a row.

And the fact that the two fishermen did not see any light phenomenon at all on Tuesday (14/10) makes it clear that the objects they saw on the other two days were most likely stars and perhaps Jupiter, which was hidden by clouds on Tuesday morning.

 

[ThomasH]

So a veteran fisherman and pilot, haven't seen stars and planets before?
People really surprise me...

 

[Calter]

I think it's more of a case of, under normal circumstances, they would have dismissed a planet looking weird as just a planet and completely forgotten about it 5 minutes later.

But in the current climate of "there's weird lights around", suddenly a planet that looks off on a particular day just becomes "one of those weird lights people are talking about".

 

[flarkey]

So a veteran fisherman and pilot, haven't seen stars and planets before?
People really surprise me...

I think when they say 'pilot' they mean a boat pilot...

A boat pilot, also known as a marine or harbor pilot, is a licensed professional who guides ships through hazardous or congested waters like ports and river mouths. They board vessels to take control from the captain, using their expert knowledge of local conditions like tides, currents, and hazards to ensure the safety of the ship, its crew, cargo, and the environment.

 

[JMartJr]

Ha, well I'm glad I got my disclaimer in there about my incredulity not being evidence at least! But yeah, the 50-100 seems to have been "dramatic license," being scaled back towards a more reasonable 4 or 5 by the second night. "50 to 100" may be shorthand for "there were a number of them, and I was excited and maybe running on a little adrenaline!"

And major props to RK for recognizing that it was hard to tell if they were really moving or if it was just because he was driving the boat. Many, many people have been fooled by the movement of a vehicle into thinking Venus was chasing them, or fleeing from them, or turning around in a sharp curve when in fact it was the vehicle maneuvering. He gets point for recognizing that as a possibility.

 

[ThomasH]

I think when they say 'pilot' they mean a boat pilot...

Ahh it could be. But still, a fisherman should have seen stars before

 

[Scaramanga]

Howcome 'scary' has gone from being Adamski UFOs hovering 30 feet overhead, or houses being invaded by owl-eyed aliens that can't be shot, or loggers being hurled 20 feet through the air, to being pathetic little 'orbs' 30 miles or more away.

 

[John J.]

From Clas Svhan's article qoted by @flarkey in post #23,

AN: – Just go outside and look when it's dark with a regular pair of binoculars. Then it flashes a little, green, red or a little white. For me it's nothing special. They're still in the same place today. It's not a big deal.

I'm wondering if they're just not used to looking at stars/ planets though binoculars.
Made more aware of lights in the sky by news reports from Denmark and elsewhere, they check out some relatively bright celestial objects, and scintillation and refraction do the rest- flashes, hints of colour.

The fact that one of the witnesses, Axel Nordmark (AN) says the lights were in the same place one day later is probably relevant.
His remark "It's not a big deal" might suggest he's not too concerned about drone swarms or alien invasion.

 

[JMartJr]

The fact that one of the witnesses, Axel Nordmark (AN) says the lights were in the same place one day later is probably relevant.

I'd think it was getting towards conclusive, given they were not looking down the approach path of a nearby airport or anything (which would also give you lines of lights in roughly the same place night after night.)

 

[GM4AJK]

Ahh it could be. But still, a fisherman should have seen stars before

I've been a satellite observer (and very amateur astronomer) for more than three decades, and yet on very rare occasions I've seen stuff that left me whispering "wtf is that?". Without any doubt in my mind, the best piece of equipment you can arm yourself with for night sky viewing is a pair of binoculars. Things like "wtf is that?" become "oh, never mind". I'm yet to be defeated when I've had binos with me. As @Mick West would say, "take it out of the LIZ"

 

[Kyle Ferriter]

Some stars (e.g. Sirius and Rigel) also twinkle brightly in different colors a lot more than most people seem aware of, and when they look at it with better zoom than their naked eyes have, it looks amazing. Which is a fair reaction because I think it is amazing, but they are just unfamiliar with what they're looking at so it can then also cause confusion.

 

[gargamel]

Svahn has written a little update again:

On wednesday I spoke to Mr. Karlsson again, and he was out fishing once more. He sent me a couple more pictures of objects he couldn't identify, that in other words were still visible four days. I could identify them as stars, Rigel among others.

Karlsson: I realize now that what we saw were just astronomical objects, I feel a little stupid.

I reassured him that he's been far from stupid, and that a lot of folks, including air traffic control and pilots have made the same mistake over the years.

Mr. Karlsson also told me that he's been showered with telephone calls, but that he avoids answering unknown numbers. The news reporter Mr. Hallvarez also received a large amount of e-mails and calls in which people have been trying to prevent him from speaking to me or UFO Sweden.

https://ufo.se/

As I wrote in the Copenhagen thread, Svahn and UFO Sweden aren't particularly popular with a certain crowd.

 

[Scaramanga]

I've been a satellite observer (and very amateur astronomer) for more than three decades, and yet on very rare occasions I've seen stuff that left me whispering "wtf is that?". Without any doubt in my mind, the best piece of equipment you can arm yourself with for night sky viewing is a pair of binoculars. Things like "wtf is that?" become "oh, never mind". I'm yet to be defeated when I've had binos with me. As @Mick West would say, "take it out of the LIZ"

I had this with the Moon the other night. Yes, the Moon ! I'd never before seen it out of my north facing bedroom window...though it should have been obvious it might do as the Sun shines into the bedroom early on summer mornings. It just seemed really odd seeing a half Moon so close to north, in the north east sky....actually at its maximum declination in the constellation Taurus...at 1am or so.

So even someone who's done astronomy for 50 years can be caught out.