G. Edward Griffin: Don't Blame the Pilots!

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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
GEG gets almost sensible with chemtrails, but then suggests that any attack against a plane would be a "false flag".

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/realityzone/dontblamepilots.html

There is no one more concerned than I am about the damaging effects of pollution and toxic waste in our atmosphere as a byproduct of the industrial age, and no one is more convinced than I that this is being greatly increased by the high-altitude spraying of aluminum, barium, and strontium compounds for the purpose of weather modification. Geoengineering is what they call it, and it is claimed by its advocates that the resulting damage to crops, wildlife, and human health is worth it because it will reduce the greater horrors that are associated with global warming – or so we are told.

GLOBAL-WARMING MYTH
By now, most of you know my position on this. In brief, it is that (1) the planet now is in a cooling stage. (2) It recently went through a brief and relatively minor warming stage directly related to sun-spot activity. (3) Previous periods in history experienced warming cycles that were more severe than the recent one. (4) CO2 is a beneficial greenhouse gas, not a harmful one. And (5) the global-warming myth was created as a political ploy to frighten us into accepting ever-increasing government control over all aspects of our lives in the name of environmentalism.

Largely as a result of the production of two excellent video documentaries on this topic (What in the World Are They Spraying? and Why in the World Are They Spraying?) there is a surge of awakening to this fact and a rising tide of public indignation. The awakening is wonderful to see because it is making it increasingly difficult for those who are implementing this program to conceal it in plain view. The indignation part also is welcome because it is a measure of the public resolve to confront our political representatives and demand full disclosure. Indignation, however, based on false assumptions can be a dangerous thing because it could lead to actions that would injure innocent people and seriously damage our movement.

DESTROY CHEMTRAIL PLANES IN FLIGHT??

An excellent example showed up on my desk several weeks ago in the form of an email from an angry citizen. He wrote:

"Its too late to try going through our corrupt gov. We need to take the planes down.
They should not be allowed to take off. The scientists who think they're doing something good for the planet need to be shown the truth. Let the people know where these planes are taking off from, and we will stop them. I've heard that a laser pen can take down a plane, hopefully, before it gets over populations. I, my friends, and family all have a sinus infection that antibiotics won't touch. I've had it three years in a row now. Chemtrails: I will do what ever it takes to stop them."

This was my reply: "We have tracked hundreds of these planes and learned that almost all of them are commercial flights loaded with passengers. They are not tankers. It appears that the chemicals either have been added to the fuel or sprayed into the atmosphere by seeder planes so the chemicals (which would have to be transparent gas) interact with moisture in the exhaust of commercial planes. Either way, the pilots know nothing of this effect – and certainly the passengers don't either. To put it mildly, it is not a good idea to advocate shooting them down."

CHECKERBOARD SKY IS NOT PROOF OF CHEMTRAILS

Another point that needs to be understood is that there is a logical explanation for the checkerboard patterns often seen in the sky that does not necessarily support the conclusion that they are evidence of chemtrail spraying. There usually are significant movements of air at the altitudes where chemtrails appear. Let us assume that the wind is blowing at 30 miles per hour and that it is moving at 90 degrees to the direction of flight. Let us also assume that there is a new flight that moves along the same path every fifteen minutes, which is not unusual in heavily traveled flight paths. In that case, the trail left by a plane will be blown sideways by 7.5 miles by the time the next plane arrives along the same path. That creates two parallel trails 7.5 miles apart. When the third plane arrives along the same path, the wind will cause three parallel trails, and so on. The casual observer might conclude that three planes have traversed the sky parallel to each other or that the same plane flew back and forth in different sectors of the sky but, in truth, there were three planes following each other along the same flight path.

Now let's assume that the wind is blowing at 45 degrees to the direction of these planes and that their flight path is intersected by another flight path for planes traveling at 90 degrees to the first flight path. This, also is common. Of course, the two paths are separated from each other by a substantial difference in altitude but, to an observer on the ground, it may appear that they are at the same altitude.

If we imagine that the planes in the second flight path also are flying one after the other, we can see that they, too, will leave parallel trails but they will be at 90 degrees to the first set of parallel trails. The result will be a checkerboard in the sky that looks like the planes flew back and forth at various points but, in truth, the pattern can be created by multiple planes flying only two stationary paths that intersect each other.

That still leaves open the question of exactly how these chemicals are delivered into the atmosphere. To be perfectly honest, I must tell you that I do not know. I have a few favorite theories but, as of now, there is not sufficient proof, especially for the skeptics. However, we have the assistance of a professional team of scientists and engineers who are working on the puzzle and, as soon as we have their report, we will publish it – even if it should conclude that they, too, do not have the answer. There is much yet to learn and much to do.

WHY IS A DATA BASE OF THREATS BEING BUILT?

It has come to my attention that so-called debunkers of chemtrails are putting quite a bit of effort into creating a data base of comments on the Internet that advocate violence against pilots or planes. Why are they doing this? The answer is obvious. They are anticipating that, sooner or later, some misguided hothead, egged-on and equipped by an agent provocateur, will do something sufficiently horrible to justify putting the blame on our movement. They probably are hoping to haul into court all outspoken chemtrail opponents as being responsible for the tragedy because they "enflamed passions" with "conspiracy theories" and, therefore, must be punished. Perhaps they are hoping that even the mere threat of doing this will be enough to silence our movement.

I urge everyone to take this possibility seriously. We are up against professionals who are expert at neutralizing and marginalizing their opposition. Using an event of this kind for that purpose is a well-honed weapon in their arsenal. Let's not participate in a witch hunt that would make it easy for those who want to silence us. Tell everyone you know that these planes are piloted by men and women who have no idea of the role they play in this scenario. Tell them that the planes are loaded with innocent passengers who do not deserve to be victims of attacks against the planes they occupy.

Thanks again for being part of our crusade.

G. Edward Griffin

Content from External Source
 
J

Joe

Guest
It has come to my attention that so-called debunkers of chemtrails are putting quite a bit of effort into creating a data base of comments on the Internet that advocate violence against pilots or planes.
Content from External Source
I wonder if they are talking about this site ? :) I think he was saying it would destroy the movement . It seemed quite reasonable what he said .
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It has come to my attention that so-called debunkers of chemtrails are putting quite a bit of effort into creating a data base of comments on the Internet that advocate violence against pilots or planes.
Content from External Source
I wonder if they are talking about this site ? :) I think he was saying it would destroy the movement . It seemed quite reasonable what he said .

I'm sure he is talking about this site. It's not exactly a "database" though just a list in a thread. And I don't think it's reasonable to say that we "are hoping to haul into court all outspoken chemtrail opponents as being responsible for the tragedy because they "enflamed passions" with "conspiracy theories" and, therefore, must be punished. Perhaps they are hoping that even the mere threat of doing this will be enough to silence our movement."

I just don't want anyone to get hurt. But I do also think that these threats themselves are a result of the conspiracy theory, and should give pause to anyone promoting it.
 
J

Joe

Guest
I'm sure he is talking about this site. It's not exactly a "database" though just a list in a thread. And I don't think it's reasonable to say that we "are hoping to haul into court all outspoken chemtrail opponents as being responsible for the tragedy because they "enflamed passions" with "conspiracy theories" and, therefore, must be punished. Perhaps they are hoping that even the mere threat of doing this will be enough to silence our movement."

I just don't want anyone to get hurt either. But I do also think that these threats themselves are a result of the conspiracy theory, and should give pause to anyone promoting it.
I dont want anyone to get hurt and I really doubt even after all those threats you posted any of those fools would act out . Its the ones that dont say anything are the ones plotting . The only ones I know taking out aircraft seem to be of a certain faith ? But that Just my opinion . I dont think taking any one to court or holding them responsible for anything they say is right either . This site even though Im still believe something is up has put out more facts and data then iv seen anywhere else . They havent proven anything . They need conclusive evidence first .
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I dont want anyone to get hurt and I really doubt even after all those threats you posted any of those fools would act out. Its the ones that dont say anything are the ones plotting.

A bit of both I think. Some of the people making threats have also claimed to have shone lasers at passing aircraft.

Planes have been struck by bullets. Although the reason is unknown, possible accidental. And it seems very rare.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/30/u-s-airways-plane-struck-by-bullet-on-landing/
 

lotek

Active Member
plus the lady making and testing 'rockets'......

we "are hoping to haul into court all outspoken chemtrail opponents as being responsible for the tragedy because they "enflamed passions" with "conspiracy theories" and, therefore, must be punished. Perhaps they are hoping that even the mere threat of doing this will be enough to silence our movement."
Content from External Source


sounds great to me... except that its not needed, the 'movement' will flush its self eventually.

what about the people trying to source missiles? or posting links to multi-watt, buy as a kit build yourself, lasers? thats pretty hardcore to me.

these guys are gunna ruin every last hobby ive ever had... 911 took pyro, tweakers took chemistry, boston might make fireworks a pita for a lil while, and i know laser control is in the works(specifically due to planes) ive seen proposals for legislation regarding the 10-100mw range ones already.

Edit:..... misread that shit.....

They are anticipating that, sooner or later, some misguided hothead, egged-on and equipped by an agent provocateur, will do something sufficiently horrible to justify putting the blame on our movement.
Content from External Source


id like to know why it cant just be an unstable member of their 'movement'?
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
My thought is that he is setting up a cover story in case it happens. Typical of that crew. One thing that I have seen a lot of during the BP spill is that the CT group LOVES to claim to be victims. They will call folks names, then when someone responds in kind, they are the victim. That seems to go along with their paranoia.

Yes, I consider folks that see 'monsters under the bed' as paranoid.
 
J

Joe

Guest

white, christian, 22-48? yea thats who i see talking about it too.
Content from External Source
no I said taking not talking about it . 9/11 wasn't Christians as far as I know ?

They are anticipating that, sooner or later, some misguided hothead, egged-on and equipped by an agent provocateur, will do something sufficiently horrible to justify putting the blame on our movement.
Content from External Source
being that most are on the left which is where most of the violence comes from anything is possible .
 
J

Joe

Guest
My thought is that he is setting up a cover story in case it happens. Typical of that crew. One thing that I have seen a lot of during the BP spill is that the CT group LOVES to claim to be victims. They will call folks names, then when someone responds in kind, they are the victim. That seems to go along with their paranoia.

Yes, I consider folks that see 'monsters under the bed' as paranoid.
Yes and those who see the fellow Americans as monsters are also paranoid .
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Yes and those who see the fellow Americans as monsters are also paranoid .

Perhaps, but here in Australia we have already had chemtrail activists come to the airport to "confront" pilots. Another claimed to have addresses of several of my colleagues and was openly planing to "send the boys around".

Maybe in this case the paranoia is warranted.
 
J

Joe

Guest
Perhaps, but here in Australia we have already had chemtrail activists come to the airport to "confront" pilots. Another claimed to have addresses of several of my colleagues and was openly planing to "send the boys around".

Maybe in this case the paranoia is warranted.
Come on pilots are not afraid of a few wacko threats ? Just arm yourself . Can you still own a gun In Australia ?
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Come on pilots are not afraid of a few wacko threats ? Just arm yourself . Can you still own a gun In Australia ?
Not generally, and certainly not while in uniform. So you are saying chemtrail believers are wacko, Joe?
 
J

Joe

Guest
Not generally, and certainly not while in uniform. So you are saying chemtrail believers are wacko, Joe?
wacko ? maybe a few . dangerous ? only to themselves ? Like any other groups . I know a few wacko pilots as well :) I thought you were allowed to be armed while in the cockpit ?
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
I see that Dane Wigington is blasting the hell out of G. Edward Griffin, careful though to not mention his name.

Wigington makes fun of Griffin's explanation about how contrails can form a grid when blown by wind, portrays Grffin as a buffoon, and has the audacity to bring up Occam's Razor in support of the chemtrails hoax.

Dane Wigington makes no mention at all of Griffin's main purpose of the article, to let folks know that what they are seeing are ordinary planes carrying passengers, and chemtrail believers are beginning to talk about shooting those same planes down. Griffin has seen the threats for himself, has received them in the mail. He is trying to do the right thing and is being disrespected for it.

G. Edward Griffin said:
Tell everyone you know that these planes are piloted by men and women who have no idea of the role they play in this scenario. Tell them that the planes are loaded with innocent passengers who do not deserve to be victims of attacks against the planes they occupy.

Dane knows that once people realize they are seeing ordinary passnger jets he can never reach his goal of "Critical Mass" where he sees himself mobilizing a great unstoppable million-man army against chemtrails.


See the article:
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/anti-geoengineering-activists-are-all-over-the-board/
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Max Bliss is offering Pilots "Amnesty".... Which is big of him; after reporting a supposedly undebunkable video. The exchange in the comments is interesting.

[video=youtube_share;iaOq5QKuhdw]http://youtu.be/iaOq5QKuhdw[/video]
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Max has joined a steadily growing group of chemmies who refuse to debate me. Some of it I am sure is the "certitude" of their positions, but Max is aware that I am a pilot and I think that has something to do with him ignoring the challenge.
 

lotek

Active Member

Ive asked im a question in a non threatening manner and its been suspended for a while. ill post it if/when he deletes/posts it.

. It’s getting to the point now that it could be raining right in front of our faces, and we are told by THEM it is not, and then we spend countless hours attempting to logically argue and defend why it is raining. Please stop this – we MUST walk away and refuse to engage in this insanity as it is a losing battle and simple gives the psycopaths more time to do what they do as we argue in circles, chasing our tails forever.
Content from External Source
Dafuq did i just read?

Your statement above: “Though we can not know the full agenda of those behind the spraying…” is truly scary. Why do you say this? Are we just giving up on trying to find this out? This notion is frightening if indeed it is the case.
Content from External Source
funny you ask... for an additional 19.95....
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
I see that Dane Wigington is blasting the hell out of G. Edward Griffin, careful though to not mention his name.

Of course others are going to blast Griffin. "Tic Tac Toe" grids and "unmarked planes" are canon in the chemtrail religion. Griffin is committing heresy of high magnitude by admitting that the shills and disinfo agents were correct about commercial planes and flight patterns. Think about the implications of that for the belief system in general. A lot of what they believe hinges on the trails being laid in deliberate patterns by double secret planes. Griffin can obviously adapt his belief to incorporate this "new" revelation about commercial flights but it still admits that the "shills" and "disinfo" agents have been right all along about that aspect of the "theory".
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Max has joined a steadily growing group of chemmies who refuse to debate me. Some of it I am sure is the "certitude" of their positions, but Max is aware that I am a pilot and I think that has something to do with him ignoring the challenge.

I don't normally quote myself but you can add Dane Wigington to the list. The following post on his site never made it past moderation...

:Your comment is awaiting moderation.
May 11, 2013 at 4:44 am
Dane, I am an airline pilot. Would you be open to an online debate on what you assert?
Content from External Source
Draw your own conclusions from that..
 

lotek

Active Member
Id like to point out his reply to this "tklite" and also note how he(dane) skips over commenting on flightware/flightradar24/identification. its a step... or not.


Screenshot at 2013-05-11 21:31:59.png

Step one, indulge, step two, ask of.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Id like to point out his reply to this "tklite" and also note how he(dane) skips over commenting on flightware/flightradar24/identification. its a step... or not.


Screenshot at 2013-05-11 21:31:59.png

Step one, indulge, step two, ask of.

Step Three:
That comment and Dane Wigington's response has been removed from his website.
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
Actually, those comments are still there.


I suspect that G Edward Griffin is incrementally moving towards completely recanting, and debunking the whole chemtrail meme.
He has said they are commercial airliners making the trails; he has explained the grid patterns.
He has suggested that the "spray" appears in parts of the sky that are pre-doped by other planes.
This is only a step or two away from suggesting that the "spray" appears because of natural properties of the environment - supersaturation with respect to ice, that the "spray" is actually a contrail after all, they they do persist longer than a few seconds in certain conditions.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
True... And there is this little gem..

I've never seen a plane flying under 29K leaving a chemtrail, only planes flying at 29K to 44K. Under 29K the temperature is just too warm for any trail to form.
Content from External Source
Applying any sort of critical thinking should lead the reader to question why cold temperatures are needed for chemtrails?
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
True... And there is this little gem..

I've never seen a plane flying under 29K leaving a chemtrail, only planes flying at 29K to 44K. Under 29K the temperature is just too warm for any trail to form.
Content from External Source
Applying any sort of critical thinking should lead the reader to question why cold temperatures are needed for chemtrails?

I can't find that comment in either the Dane Wigington piece comments, or on the G Edward Griffin page.
Has it been removed now?
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
They havent proven anything . They need conclusive evidence first .

Yes, and we have G. Edward Griffin sitting on his data for two years and Dane Wigington refusing to discuss the matter when responding to Griffin.

Griffin really needs to publish his study. Accorinding to what he is saying, the data is extensive:

G. Edward Griffin said:
At least 90% of the hundreds of planes tracked in this manner were commercial flights. Some of our sky watchers have used long lenses and photographed many of these planes and were able to identify the standard colors and markings of commercial planes. The data produced by the software aligned perfectly with real scheduled flights.
http://www.realityzone.com/currentperiod.html#letters

Here is the reporting template his people were using, perhaps with attached photos, etc.

planefinder.jpg


Anybody have some bright ideas how these could be displayed in an easy-to-understand way?
 

TEEJ

Senior Member.
Max Bliss is offering Pilots "Amnesty".... Which is big of him; after reporting a supposedly undebunkable video. The exchange in the comments is interesting.

LOL! It is very big of him! Is he hoping that his 'evidence' will make Ryan Air crews come clean?

If anyone has 40 mins or so have a look at his brief at the 'London Chemtrails Awareness Conference'. It is just mindnumbing!


How can people be so gullible?





05:05 He show an image and claims that it is hole in the cloud made by himself using a chembuster!


19:58 onwards 'Yes they really do work ... it's not backyard science'


He has proof that Ryan Air is spraying and they have to zig zag due to the performance of his chembuster. I love how he goes on about unmarked aircraft with no windows.


36:45 onwards he provides the details of building his chembuster. He later explains how his chembuster works!


From the blurb on the video description


Chembusters....I have made 4 chembusters and I am satisfied they do work but they are not the whole solution but they clear away chemtrails and hamper their operations. You will see the effects and at first it is like magic. They can get overwhelmed with a lot of traffic but they work for ever. I move mine, wearing rubber gloves to alternate holes in the ground. I see the performance improve..I assume the surrounding soil gets saturated with negative energy, like a sponge with water and moving it works. They do not affect normal clouds, infact they just harmonise the energies in the sky...the chemtrails particles change the polarity of the sky, this is why the chembuster can work. Everyone can make one of these, they do not need to be perfect at all just read the instruction 2 or 3 times first and have all your bits ready..anyone can do this.
 

lotek

Active Member
amnesty from what? your personal army's laser pointers, rockets, and gemstone/copperwire powered hippy canons?
amnesty....
Oh the hubris..
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
amnesty from what? your personal army's laser pointers, rockets, and gemstone/copperwire powered hippy canons?
amnesty....
Oh the hubris..

That question did occur to me. Max seems like nice enough guy, but in reviewing a few if his other videos where he claims his chembusters keep the small patch of sky above his house clear, and really believes this, one does wonder about him.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
FOund this on the Skydentify Chemtrails FB page. I can almost hear Robbie the Robot saying "does not compute! does not compute!" when I read the last comment, which did not totally fit in my screen shot:

"kydentify Chemtrails Who in the world is spraying?He is also supporting the debunkers explanation for the grids that the chemtrail movement have spent a whole decade disputing. For a whole decade we have been saying that is wrong but now suddenly they have been right all this time. The movement has been saying that the planes are military but at least in Australia it has been proven they are not. The movement have been saying photos of tanks inside planes are for chemtrails but now we have to admit the photos are just of flight certification testing. It's so frustrating. Now debunkers have challenged me to provide any documentation to support the idea that contrails can't persist for more than a few minutes but so far I can't find anything. I feel they must be wrong but it's hard to find documentation to prove it"



5-12doesnotcomputer copy.jpg


More interesting comments later in the same thread;
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=420063104756899&id=400145150082028
 

lotek

Active Member
I-See-What-You-Did-There..png

trying to get him to work on something more worthwhile are we?

Im happy to see the comment is still on dane's page. If for no other reason to have him on record saying he doesnt support the hardcore activists. perhaps you just need to stroke the guy off a little first to get him to leave a comment up. his ego. stroke his ego a bit that is.... What i said wasnt inaccurate, wrong, or a lie. Griffin's ideas are asinine. Dane's are too, but i didnt have to say that.


It is interesting, in that FB thread, to watch the guy bounce between logic and information taking hold, then his emotional investment taking over again, then back and forth like a game of pong. I wish him well!
 

JFDee

Senior Member.
Found this on the Skydentify Chemtrails FB page
This person - as a chemtrailer - actually tried to promote an effort to take good pictures of trailing planes on M.J. Murphy's FB board. He was irritated that his posts had vanished quite soon ... At the time, he suspected technical glitches in FB.

Now I can see that he seems to be on the way out.
 
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