Did NIST lie and claim that the fires melted steel?

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Landru

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Staff member
Or perhaps they didn't withstand the thermite demolition. More likely.

And 7 couldn't even stand a few office fires without 'collapsing' in what was officially described as a symmetrical implosion. Sorry Landru but you are grasping at straws here.

The planes couldn't do it. That is testified to.

The fires which were fiercer and longer before had no structural impact on the steel and even the lightweight trusses did not need replacing afterwards.

NIST originally claimed the steel melted... proven lie.

What is left?

Even illiterate Iraqi's would not disagree with me, as the polls show.
Do you have anything to back up your claims? The NIST report did not say the steel melted. If I missed it post the evidence. What is left is what the NIST report describes. There is no evidence to support thermite. None. As far as previous fires, the fire protection had not been blown off as it had been due to the planes crashing into the buildings. This was mentioned before on metabunk and the NIST report.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Do you have anything to back up your claims? The NIST report did not say the steel melted. If I missed it post the evidence. What is left is what the NIST report describes. There is no evidence to support thermite. None. As far as previous fires, the fire protection had not been blown off as it had been due to the planes crashing into the buildings. This was mentioned before on metabunk and the NIST report.
To be getting on with, here are some of your 'proper' mainstream 'real scientists' who will bend over backwards (and any other direction) to accomodate NIST and back up the OS BS.

We have had years of 'well what do you expect, fire will melt steel', 'you are idiots if you don't understand that'.

You cannot have it both ways. Time to wake up and face the truth. Your wonderful OS scientists do not have a clue what they are talking about or they are lieing their heads off to keep the right side of the authorities.

I wonder how many of these erstwhile intellectuals are now retracting or have retracted what they stated so emphatically?

http://911review.com/coverup/fantasy/melting.htmlSteel-Melting Fires

In the wake of the attack, numerous experts asserted that fires in the Twin Towers melted their structural steel.
e x c e r p t
title: Intense heat melted steel supports in Trade Center
authors: Daniel Scarpinato
Although the impact of the jetliners was strong, it was the heat from the explosion that most likely caused the buildings to collapse, experts say.

Richard Ebeltoft, a structural engineer and University of Arizona architecture lecturer, speculated that flames fueled by thousands of gallons of aviation fuel melted the building's steel supports.
[SIZE=-1] site: wildcat.arizona.edu page: wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/95/17/01_9_m.html [/SIZE]
e x c e r p t
title: Kamikaze Attackers May Have Known Twin Sisters' Weak Spot
Hyman Brown, a University of Colorado civil engineering professor and the Trade Center's construction manager [sic], speculated that flames fuelled by thousands of litres of aviation fuel melted steel supports.

"This building would have stood had a plane or a force caused by a plane smashed into it," he said. "But steel melts, and 90,850 litres of aviation fluid melted the steel. Nothing is designed or will be designed to withstand that fire."
[SIZE=-1] site: sunTimes.co.za page: www.suntimes.co.za/2001/09/12/architect.asp [/SIZE]
e x c e r p t
title: Design Choice for Towers Saved Lives
authors: Eugenie Samuel and Damian Carrington
Each tower was struck by a passenger aeroplane, hijacked by suicidal terrorists, but remained upright for nearly an hour. Eventually raging fires melted the supporting steel struts, but the time delay allowed hundreds of people to escape.
[SIZE=-1] site: NewScientist.com page: www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1281 [/SIZE]
e x c e r p t
title: How the World Trade Center fell
authors: Sheila Barter
"It was the fire that killed the buildings. There's nothing on earth that could survive those temperatures with that amount of fuel burning." aid structural engineer Chris Wise.

"The columns would have melted, the floors would have melted and eventually they would have collapsed one on top of each other."
[SIZE=-1] site: news.bbc.co.uk page: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1540044.stm [/SIZE]
e x c e r p t
title: Twin Towers' Steel Under Scrutiny
[Professor of Structural Engineering at the University of Newcastle, John Knapton] told BBC News Online: "The world trade centre was designed to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707, but that was unusual... we are trying to discover why they [ the towers ] collapsed and what needs doing to rebuild them."

"The buildings survived the impact and the explosion but not the fire, and that is the problem."

"The 35 tonnes of aviation fuel will have melted the steel... all that can be done is to place fire resistant material around the steel and delay the collapse by keeping the steel cool for longer."
[SIZE=-1] site: news.bbc.co.uk page: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1604348.stm [/SIZE]

http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/experts/articles/sciam01/sci_am1.html

 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
But there was NO melted steel found. Duh.
Did you watch the video and 'listen' to the testimony? So all the fire fighters and ground workers were lying? Or do you hear it all and think 'I know, I will just simply deny it'?

Better write to them and tell them how it was simply all an illusion and you know far better than they do.

http://911blogger.com/node/4324

 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I accept what the EXPERTS that LOOKED at it found.

[...]
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Part of the problem is that people often use words in a non-scientific manner. It's like calling condensed vapor steam - it's a common usage, but not accurate.

Consider chocolate. If you put a bar of chocolate in your pocket and it it softens a bit, then you might say that is is melted.

The same can apply to steel, if steel is heated until it's red hot, or until it's hot enough that it sags and deformed, is it unreasonable that someone would describe it as melted?

Example:
http://www.lions-online.org/podcasts/mrssaller.html



Now quite clearly the steel has not turned to liquid, I'd not even say it's even "melted", it's just softened


And consider this descripton of the "9/11 cross":
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/1075-Debunked-WTC-Cross-(9-11-Cross)

No. It's not. That entire description is wrong in almost every way.



So when people say "melted" or even "molten", what exactly do they mean?
 
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Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Part of the problem is that people often use words in a non-scientific manner. It's like calling condensed vapor steam - it's a common usage, but not accurate.

Consider chocolate. If you put a bar of chocolate in your pocket and it it soften a bit, then you might say that is is melted.

The same can apply to steel, if steel is heated until it's red hot, or until it's hot enough that it sags and deformed, is it unreasonable that someone would describe it as melted?

Example:
http://www.lions-online.org/podcasts/mrssaller.html



Now quite clearly the steel has not turned to liquid, I'd not even say it's even "melted", it's just softened


And consider this descripton of the "9/11 cross":
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/1075-Debunked-WTC-Cross-(9-11-Cross)

No. It's not, that entire description is wrong in almost every way.
So when people say "melted" or even "molten", what exactly do they mean?
The cross thing is total bunk... you can even see the welds. It was symbolic that's all.

There is an interview by NIST members somewhere that states the collapse was due to fire melted steel. I recall seeing it but I can't seem to find it.

Not withstanding that, the 'experts' have clearly stated that the collapse was due to melted steel. Now how melted it had to be is a different kettle of fish and I am sure no one would suggest that it had to be 'liquid' before the collapse could ensue.

So for reasonable discussion purposes re collapse, melted steel would be steel that had reached such a temperature that it bowed and lost it's structural integrity.

Re molten steel at the collapse pile, there is much testimony to that. For 'Whoever' Cairenns source was, to state
; is disengenuous as they have deliberately selected a group who for whatever reason have declined to admit seeing such things; when in their own testimony they have previously dismissed anyone who contradicts that assertion.
If that isn't selective manipulation, I don't know what is.
 
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Cairenn

Senior Member.
http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC STUDY 8-06 w clarif as of 9-8-06 .pdf

Lots of great information in that, from real experts on building demolition. Not by inexperienced folks.

If the average person were to look at my puppy they would say he is a lab. However, if someone that is an expert on dogs were to look at him, they would see that the set of his ears and tail are incorrect, that his head is not shaped right, that his ears 'hang' wrong, that he carries his tail wrong and that it is too short and it is shaped wrong (and lets not include his piebald tongue). To the expert, they will see some chow in his tail set and length and carriage, the 'collie' shows in his head shape and the way his ears fall.

That is why I prefer experts to the average observer, they are a lot more accurate and observant.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
NIST claims that NIST never said the steel melted.

http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/faqs_wtctowers.cfm

 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Re molten steel at the collapse pile, there is much testimony to that.
But why no testimony of solidified steel? If there were tons of molton steel then there would be tons of solid steel in blob form.

My though here is that many of the "molten" comments are about things that are simply very hot, red hot, from underground fires. Or even just describing the glow of a fire (deep in the pile) at night.

It's possible that some people saw some molten metal in the pile, but then it's quite likely that was aluminum.

Pools of molten metal does not even really make much sense, if tons of thermite were used to destroy the tower, then the dripping steel would splash over everything. Some might make it into pools, but vastly more would simply be splashed around, or cooled into ball bearing shapes as it fell.

Just picture pouring a large crucible of molton steel from 500 feet up. What would happen?
 

MGMGrand

New Member
But why no testimony of solidified steel? If there were tons of molton steel then there would be tons of solid steel in blob form.
Pools of molten metal does not even really make much sense, if tons of thermite were used to destroy the tower, then the dripping steel would splash over everything. Some might make it into pools, but vastly more would simply be splashed around, or cooled into ball bearing shapes as it fell.
There is video on Youtube that talks about huge balls of iron being found from thermite.

My though here is that many of the "molten" comments are about things that are simply very hot, red hot, from underground fires. Or even just describing the glow of a fire (deep in the pile) at night. It's possible that some people saw some molten metal in the pile, but then it's quite likely that was aluminum.
There is video on Youtube where people said they saw molten metal that looked like lava.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
May I point out that YouTubes are extremely poor sources of facts.

No evidence from creditable sources= no evidence to me
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
There is video on Youtube that talks about huge balls of iron being found from thermite.
No, they talk about iron microsphere. Tiny specks of iron that you expect to find after a a fire and collapse.

There is video on Youtube where people said they saw molten metal that looked like lava.
Any liquid metal was probably aluminum, of which there were many tons. And "molten" means different things to different people.
 
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