Debunked: CIA Manchurian Candidate

[Pete Tar]

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Is it a 'real' news piece, or one of those ones produced for the alternative news market which is basically a fancy way of re-iterating rumour and speculation?

 

[Mick West]

Well, RT.com is not a reliable source, they consistently produce entertainment pieces like this without any real fact checking.

The lawsuit is the Edgewood Arsenal case, and is not primarily about "planting remote control devices in their brains", but is about the health effects from various chemical tests performed on servicemen at Edgewood. Of course though you get the more extreme mind-control theorists latching onto this.

http://www.alternet.org/health/140206

Erspamer's plaintiffs claim that, although they volunteered for the Edgewood program, they were never adequately informed of the potential risks and continue to suffer debilitating health effects as a result of the experiments. They hope to force the CIA and the Army to admit wrongdoing, inform them of the specific substances they were exposed to, and provide access to subsidized health care to treat their Edgewood-related ailments.​

The guy they interview, Colin Ross, seems rather dubious. He has his own theory of psychiatry (the "Trauma Model"), he offer's mail order certificates, in what is equivalent to a diploma mill. You simply have to buy his books and DVDs, and he'll certify you:

The Ross Institute offers a certification in Trauma Model Therapy. Upon completion of the training requirements, The Ross Institute issues a certificate documenting that the person has completed the training and received Certification in Trauma Model Therapy.
Steps to obtain certification:

1. Purchase the certification - $121.00.
2. Purchase and complete the training materials - $277.69.
3. Upon completion, mail a signed Waiver to the Ross Institute.
4. Ross Institute will then mail you a set of multiple choice questions. This is for Ross Institute information only. You cannot fail the exam.
5. Return the MCQ exam to the Ross Institute.
6. Ross Institute will then mail you a certificate of completion.

He's also written a variety of books on various non-conventional topics.

He also thinks he can emit energy beams from his eyes.

So I suspect this is simply self-publicity on Ross's part.

 

[Mick West]

There's a bunch of documents about the case here:

http://www.edgewoodtestvets.org/court-filed-documents/

Looks like it is still very active. They mention "

septal implants" on the front page. Document references are:

​

http://www.edgewoodtestvets.org/cou...-Motion-to-Compel-Production-Of-Documents.pdf

(9/15/10)
With respect to Plaintiffs’ document requests concerning “septal implants,” Defendants’
written responses explain that “after [] conducting a reasonable search, Defendants have
identified only information concerning nasal implants used in the 1950s to treat pilots for disease
and radiation contamination.” Ex. B to Wolverton Decl. (Defs.’ Resp. to RFP No. 7). Further
supporting DoD’s position is the fact that no mention is made of such experimentation in the
comprehensive Army IG report. See Ex. H to Wolverton Decl. (Table of Contents). Because
Defendants have been unable to find any information on purported “septal implants” on
servicemembers, there can be no basis to further expand discovery to cover alleged implants in
non-servicemembers.

http://www.edgewoodtestvets.org/cou...er-Re-Discovery-Motions-Heard-On-10-27-10.pdf

(11/11/2010)
5.9. Topics 44-48: Use of Septal Implants in Defendants’ Test
Programs and on Individual Plaintiff Bruce Price
Topics 44-48 seeks testimony on the design, purpose, function, use and health effects
of any and all implants, devices, or foreign bodies inserted into a test subject, particularly
septal implants inserted into Individual Plaintiff Bruce Price. These topics also seek
testimony about the persons who performed such operations and any known health effects
or impact on the removal of such objects.
Defendants argue that after thorough searches, they have been unable to find any
information pertaining to septal implants. The only information they found on implantation of
devices were nasal devices for pilots. However, Plaintiffs counter that there is evidence that
Defendants sponsored brain implant testing through Tulane University. (Defs’ Mtn for
Protective Order Limiting Scope of Disc. Dkt. No. 140, at 23 and Decl. Of Kimberly L. Herb
in Support, Ex. L at 2). Also, Plaintiff Bruce Price’s septal implant is obvious evidence of
such research practices. Thus, there must be some available evidence at least of septal
implants

So it seems like this one guy, Bruce Price, thinks he had a "septal implant", and that's the entire root basis of the RT story.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/02/15/complaint.pdf

DEFENDANTS placed some sort of an implant in Bruce’s right ethmoid sinus near the frontal lobe of his brain. The implant appears on CT scans as a “foreign body” of undetermined composition (perhaps plastic or some composite material) in Bruce’s right ethmoid, as confirmed in a radiology report dated June 30, 2004.

 

[Pete Tar]

Wow, nice work.It's a shame these alternative news productions aren't really interested in upping the standard of accurate journalism like they could be, but are just making a slick presentation that amounts to a gossip tabloid magazine for conspiracy fetishists. If it's weird or scary enough, then it's considered sexy.I'm sure there are stories worth investigating that aren't being paid attention to in any mainstream source. It's not necessary to sensationalise and exaggerate everything. It's really just using the same tactics that the mainstream media is often accused of by the target audience. Just pushing buttons.

 

[John Allman]

The video is pretty rubbishy. It starts off mentioning a lawsuit in which, the listener can be expected to infer, multiple plaintiffs alleged implants. Mick has shown that only one of the plaintiffs allege an implant.

There is then a wide-ranging interview with Colin Ross, that never mentions that case that was mentioned before that interview, as far as I recall. Ross mentions, each only briefly, loads of unethical research projects, all of which ended decades ago, but was not able to say anything interesting or informative about any of the individual projects.

There is only one tiny soundbite in the entire video, that bears any relation, and only a weak one, to the "Manchurian Candidate" headline.

Of Ross, there isn't anything illegal with issuing certificates that merely say that somebody has "completed" a certain training, but such certificates are often not worth much either, especially if it's not possible to "complete" the training with a "fail" grade, and hence to be denied a certificate of completion.

Thank you Mick for the interesting news about Ross' attempt to win US $1M by making a sound come from a speaker, by the electomagnetic radiation coming out of his eye. I think Ross is being very clever. He's not claiming that his eye can emit enough energy to power a speaker. All he is proposing to do, as far as I could understand links I only speed-read, is to detect automatically, inside the darkness of conducting, earthed goggles, radiation coming out of the front of his head, where his eyes are. He intends to use biofeedback to train himself to alter his EEG, and to detect those changes in EEG technologically with an aerial or suchlike inside the googles, switching on or off a signal to the speaker. It sounds as though it might be feasible to do this. And if all the detector really detected was any changes in EEG there might be that Ross discovered were associated with opening or shutting his eyes (which might be easier than learning to control one's EEG using biofeedback), rather than voluntary changes in EEG, who would know? More fool the company for agreeing in advance that such a demonstration would be "paranormal". I'd like Ross to get the million bucks. As far as I could tell by speed-reading, he's in with a chance.

To answer an original question of Pete Tar's, removed from his posting when it was moved into a thread of its own, the poor video is more connected with the market that the debunked "Human Protection Software Suite" pandered to than (say) a video about jam-making would be. If I'd been Ross, I wouldn't necessarily have refused to participate, but I wouldn't be especially proud to have participated.

 

[Juror No. 8]

I don't understand. How does this thread debunk any potential CIA/MK-ULTRA Manchurian Candidate program?

 

[Mick West]

It doesn't.