Contrails and Weather, Hernando Island
- Thread starter spiral
- Start date
MikeC
Closed Account
MikeC
Closed Account
Verifiable evidence of that?
Evidence? how often? how often is the reverse true? How often are there both contrails and "natural" clouds?
Trailspotter
Senior Member.
The wind at an altitude of 10 000 meters is different from the wind on the ground. According to the forecast made for that date for 21:00 UTC (14:00 PDT) in that area the ground wind was absent, but at the altitude (250 hPA is about 10,000 m) it was strong NWW wind with speed of 120 km/h:
http://earth.nullschool.net/#2014/0...tive_humidity/orthographic=-118.09,45.91,3000
Note also a 100% RH upwind of Hernando Island, ideal conditions for persistent contrail formation.
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spiral
Member
I get emails from bill and I would not have believed an expremier would go into this without some proof. he is a gardener and like I am a sailor looks to the weather for his own good. I believe there is much to be concerned about as to the council of redding california who voted five to zero to study chemtrails due to many citizens concerns.
spiral
Member
the jet trails spead slow. that is all I can tell you.. like I said I don't know the wind speed. I am not documenting this I got nothing to prove. no one could have proved it to me. you can doubt me but I don't doubt what I have seen for years
Hama Neggs
Senior Member.
Excellent! Did he publish this "proof" somewhere we can review it?
Whitebeard
Senior Member.
Yes jets are altering the weather, no one is denying that. But to say they are altering it to a vast degree, or intentionally, is not proven, and I see contrails all the time, and I do believe my own eyes, but my eyes see an explainable natural phenomena of condensation and ice crystal formation, not chemical spraying
If by 'the government' you mean weather bureaus, then yes they are predicting cloudy days, this is nothing new, weather forecasting dates back to at least the Babylonian empire, and by the time Aristotle wrote 'Metrologica' in around 350BC the link between clouds and weather was established if not fully understood.
However even these days weather and cloud forecasting is not always 100%, you can predict the conditions for cloud formation, but still not be 100% accurate as if the clouds will actually form or not. All vapour trails do is trigger cloud formation if those conditions are right
Trailspotter
Senior Member.
At some conditions contrails spread slow, at others they can spread fast, but they normally do not stay in place all the time. The satellite images that I have posted show that the contrails have moved. The contrails that were near Hernando Island at 12:40 EDT were not there at 14:25 EDT.
Pete Tar
Senior Member.
Then what do want here? If nothing we say alters your view in any way, why did you come here?
And 'jet contrails change the weather' is something you *should* try to prove, both to yourself and others. You can't just expect people to believe it because you really do.
Evidence, and alternative explanations supported by known science should be considered if you are a rational person. If not, then you're welcome to persist in your belief but there's no point in doing it here.
spiral
Member
the photo is proof jets change the weather. he has pages of info from government on geoengineering. he has no need to lie. why.
spiral
Member
rational would be to believe a long time sailor when he speaks of the weather
spiral
Member
rational conversation, I want to know the other side. I wish I was wrong. that's why I am here. so far nothing I haven't seen or heard before except I liked some of the youtube links that prove my point
NoParty
Senior Member.
Even if that "long time sailor" is making statements (like that persistent contrails are new) that are easily disproved?
spiral
Member
I have seen a black cougar. no pictures but true, I don't expect anyone to believe that. but I have seen jet trails drip with grey on many days. I have pictures witnesses and thousands agree. most here agree jets change the weather. so far no one seems to care. dogs are addicted to gas fumes from cars in cities, people are addicted to denial because awakening is painful
SR1419
Senior Member.
What do you mean "spray"?
Are you suggesting that there is something different coming from the planes other than normal, persisting contrails?
We have shown you that persisting, spreading contrails are a normal occurrence- having been observed and studied for decades...
...and you have said that you don't like them. Fair enough.
But to suggest that they are "spraying" something or that the trails are the intended result of something MORE than simply air travel requires evidence..of which you have provided none.
You also have not addressed many of the very relevant facts that people have kindly presented in this thread- instead you keep asserting your beliefs without any true substantive discourse about the facts presented that may be contrary to your beliefs.
SR1419
Senior Member.
No one here has denied contrails often persist and spread into sheets of cirrus clouds...thats a well known, long established fact.
What is your point?
spiral
Member
I am only a witness a messenger. I am telling you what I see. I cant help it if you doubt me. you should. but I know what I see. jets change blue skies grey and sometimes make thunderstorms. seen it many times. don't care if you don't believe me. not the point. don't change your mind. nothing makes me like jets greying my sky. and there are lots of smoking guns , you know them better than I do. I was on your side until ten years of daily observations.
spiral
Member
troll baiting. I am not a troll. I am a weather observer. I see jets change the weather. I do not believe it is from a little condensation from jet contrails that can make clouds that block the sun.
SR1419
Senior Member.
You do not seem to be able to understand what we are saying....
We believe you see contrails persist, spread and cover the sky in a sheet of cirrus clouds.
What else is there to believe?
As mentioned earlier, persistent contrails are often found in advance of approaching weather fronts...so, seeing persistent contrails prior to rain is a known, logical outcome of basic atmospheric science.
spiral
Member
they also change into big storm clouds and sometimes make rain. all from jet planes after long hot spells when we need rain. then the jets come just like in the photos. the spread darken thunder and go away unless they spray again. I have no point in making this up. I wish it weren't true
NoParty
Senior Member.
Due to the nature of this site, most people here have probably "witnessed" (in person and in photos)
far more pics of contrails than most people. No one is really doubting the visuals you say you see.
But elaborate and unproven assertions about what it "really means" is where you're gonna lose folks, here.
SR1419
Senior Member.
why do you believe this?
We have shown the historical and scientific record dating back decades that shows that your belief is not based on facts.
When you read this quote from an atmospheric scientist from 40yrs ago describing EXACTLY what you are witnessing- what do you make of it? Is he lying?
http://ciresweb.colorado.edu/science/groups/pielke/classes/atoc7500/knollenberg72.pdfExternal Quote:
David Fraser
Senior Member.
As part of my studied as a young man in the 70's we studied a qualification in Seamanship with elements of Meterology (the Radio 4 shipping forecast is a bit patchy at times). I do remember a teacher discussing contrails and cirrus and how they can be indicators of changing weather fronts. I never really thought about it until I was introduced to "chemtrails" but I do recall during the time I went to sea noticing the relationship was fairly accurate. I know that is purely anecdotal but there is an interesting study here if you get the chance to read
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1017/S1350482799001231/pdf
Efftup
Senior Member.
the photo is not proof jets change the weather. It's proof there were trails around the time a weather front was moving in. All the people who have studied the weather in great detail have told you the conditions of the weather front is what caused the contrails, NOT the other way round. You chose not to believe them. That is your choice.
The Ex Premier may have no reason to lie, he may have a reason to lie. You don;t REALLY know. Being an ex premier does not mean he is immune to bunk, any more than any other person.
If you look at this site, you will also find links to the maths that shows such a trail can NOT fit into the aircraft.
What sort of sailor are you? what sort of boat do you have? Say it;s a fishing boat with a maximum cargo of 5 tonnes.
If there was some kind of trail coming from the boat that was being blamed on you, if it was 200 miles long and clearly weighed more than your entire boat, what would you say to people? what if they then still persisted in believing you were laying this trail?
Hama Neggs
Senior Member.
My question was this, about the ex-premier: "Excellent! Did he publish this "proof" somewhere we can review it?"
Can you answer my question? Doesn't he SHOW this "proof" to people who want to know? Where can we see it? I didn't accuse him of lying. I want to SEE what he has to say about it. Actually, I want to see what he has to SHOW about it.
SR1419
Senior Member.
Hama Neggs
Senior Member.
Who is that?
spiral
Member
got your logic but you don't have the experience of a gardner and a sailor and many who look to the sky daily. jet trail clouds are never predicted but often the only ones in the sky when clouds are predicted as this day i took the photos. yes maybe jets could make trails before a storm but these are not regular contrails. they are grey. they block the sun and they do not go away. they spread they darken the skies and for
me too but it doesn't matter . you cant believe what you see. it is natural
Hama Neggs
Senior Member.
Pick 3. You are saying you don't have to prove anything, but then say there is plenty of proof. Which is it? If proof is so readily available, why do you refuse to cite it?
Hama Neggs
Senior Member.
I didn't ask you about, or challenge, your gardening experience. I asked you this:
"My question was this, about the ex-premier: "Excellent! Did he publish this "proof" somewhere we can review it?"
SR1419
Senior Member.
What is a regular contrail?
Why does the description written 40yrs ago by a scientist seem almost identical with your description today...even though you claim it didnt used to happen? Please explain this discrepancy.
You really do not seem to be able to address all the valid points people are making. Your mind is made up...closed to idea that you may be wrong about your assertions and speculation.
Hama Neggs
Senior Member.
It isn't. The vast majority of substance in a persistent contrail comes from moisture in the atmosphere. It's easily 10,000 times as much as came from the plane.
SR1419
Senior Member.
How do you know we are not right?
Belief? so its about faith? a religion to you?
It should be about facts.
