Contrails and Weather, Hernando Island

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
if you are right it is not what it looks like.

That is correct. It LOOKS LIKE planes are "spraying" something, but it's not that at all. It's water vapor from combustion of the fuel they use. This is much like it sorta LOOKS LIKE the sun orbits the Earth every day, but that isn't what is really happening.

I have asked you twice, now, by what mechanism you think the trails planes make can cause storms. You have no answer? How can you claim it's happening if you can't explain HOW?
 
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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
you are convinced. but i am not. its not what i see. if any thing you must learn if you are right it is not what it looks like. i have seen many blue sky days sprayed away by persitant spreading contrails that work their way to a thunder storm. deny reason or hate i don't care. i seen it. you obviously did not.
Please learn to understand what people have said to you.
No-one is denying reason, please point out exactly where anyone has. No-one is hating on you, please point out where anyone has.
People *have* seen the same thing and have told you so. They just don't come to the same conclusions you do, and have tried to explain why.
Perhaps you can actually address the content of those explanations instead of deflecting.
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
you are convinced. but i am not. its not what i see. if any thing you must learn if you are right it is not what it looks like. i have seen many blue sky days sprayed away by persitant spreading contrails that work their way to a thunder storm. deny reason or hate i don't care. i seen it. you obviously did not.

There is a lot of daily air traffic above Vancouver Island, therefore there always be contrails in your area when weather front arrives. But weather will change regardless of the air traffic and contrails. Look at the places, where air traffic at the contrail altitudes is practically non-existent, for example, Cape Town, South Africa. There are flights that terminate here, but, as far as I can check, there are no regular flight overflying the city.

I've checked recent satellite images: on November 7, 2014, there was a clear sky above Cape Town, but the next day weather has changed. Here are some ground images. This has been taken on November 7:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/infosailing/15547191347

ad this one the next day, November 8:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/randalll/15596659309

Here are links to more images for comparison:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dubhard/15704660207
https://www.flickr.com/photos/thierry_a/15719916568

As you can see, the coming grey sky has nothing to do with contrails, because there were no contrails.
 
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Rico

Senior Member.
you are convinced. but i am not. its not what i see. if any thing you must learn if you are right it is not what it looks like. i have seen many blue sky days sprayed away by persitant spreading contrails that work their way to a thunder storm. deny reason or hate i don't care. i seen it. you obviously did not.

Well, we are not here trying to convince you of anything. You make up your mind, but I urge you to at least think through the reasoning a little bit, and what people have to say.

Coming onto this forum just to say something along the lines of "I am right, and you are wrong," is frankly quite unproductive. So, it begs the question: Why exactly are you here? You came on here simply stating that none of us "have the experience of a gardner and a sailor and many who look to the sky daily." I'm not sure if anyone else here gardens, or sails, but I can confirm that at least 3 posters here are professional pilots, one a meteorologist, one a former aviation mechanic (I think), and others with varying backgrounds who do actually study the skies quite a bit. If you wish to dismiss all this, then go right ahead.

If you want a scientific debate, however, then start with evidence and reasoning. For instance, I myself am eager to understand your reasoning as to how you conclude an airplane can somehow produce a thunderstorm by so-called "spraying." Explain the mechanisms, or at least how you theorize this to be the case, and then maybe we can open up some productive dialogue. The whole "I see it and thus it is true" argument is, as you know, not something most of us skeptics can accept, because we know that what we see does not equal to what we know.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
It's interesting to note that quite a few chemtrail believers claim the "sprayed" trails STOP storms from developing and cause drought.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
you are convinced. but i am not. its not what i see. if any thing you must learn if you are right it is not what it looks like. i have seen many blue sky days sprayed away by persitant spreading contrails that work their way to a thunder storm. deny reason or hate i don't care. i seen it. you obviously did not.

The presence of contrails is not a causal factor in the development of thunderstorms!!

Contrails are an indicator of an approaching change in the weather....like a canary in a coal mine, if you will. They form BECAUSE of conditions aloft that are indicative of a impending change in the weather.

Furthermore, the contrails are formed, and remain largely around, and above, about 30,000 feet.

Thunderstorms DO NOT form that high. TStorms form in the troposphere. Read this:

"How Do Thunderstorms Form?

I'd suggest further reading as well...and perhaps a community college-level course on meteorology (as a sailor, I'd think you'd find that immensely useful, in the long run).
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
weather experts say i am stupid and ridiculous. still i am right. i know your arguments it is natural common and alright. good for you. sleep well.

If someone is a weather expert (scientist? is that who you mean by expert?) do you think they are wrong? Why would you not sleep well? What do you find ominous?

(In reply to Hama's "you are NOT right about those trails CAUSING the storm front."

you cant prove they didn't.

It really isn't up to anyone to prove they didn't. It is up to the person making the claim to prove the did. Contrails do not cause storms. There have been many posts explaining this.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
In your case.....I'll ask this....
-- have you seen jet trails in the sky, and NO storm followed, days after the trails ? (I certainly have seen this, in fact it's quite common).

Besides, the fact is there are the same amount of planes flying there every day, yet there are not storms every day. If the jets were causing the storms, there ought to be constant storms, no?
 

Ray Von Geezer

Senior Member.
you cant prove they didn't.
When my dog, Zarda, whines and paces, about half an hour later a thunderstorm hits us. Therefore, my dog causes thunderstorms. You can't prove she doesn't. :)

Obviously, I don't really believe that - it's far more likely that Zarda's superior doggy senses allow her to be a predictor, not a maker, of thunderstorms, but if I was oblivious to those senses and went only on my own observations of her and my dogs before her, then I could assume dogs are cause rather than effect. Once someone pointed out to me the evidence that dogs have much more sensitive ears and noses, and that they're probably just hearing approaching thunder and/or smelling the ozone, then I think I'd need more than just my own observations to continue with my theory of "Zarda The Stormbringer".

While I don't want to be disrespectful, I'm really not sure what you're hoping to achieve here. Not only do you not seem to want to acknowledge decades of evidence presented, you don't seem to want to contest or discuss it. If you're unwilling to even consider that the dog might not be causing the storm then no-one here is going to convince you otherwise.

Ray Von
 
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