Ann K
Senior Member.
I'll pass, thanks. There is very little music past the eighteenth century that I can tolerate!Unshelter yourself:

I'll pass, thanks. There is very little music past the eighteenth century that I can tolerate!Unshelter yourself:
That might not be a big problem, I guess a young man working as a kitchen porter- perhaps mainly a washer-upper- might be asked to help out with some food prep. /basic cooking, and at a pinch might describe himself as a chef to some people....position (porter vs. chef) differ.
Agreed:His account sounds altogether too "movie-script" for me to take it seriously.
External Quote:
As they chatted, a dark car pulled up outside the hotel and two mysterious figures, dressed in black suits, emerged from the back seat. They called to the two chefs by name.
'Cigarette break's over lads,' one of them barked to the rest of the group. 'In you go and mind your own business.'
Also agreed.As for Dr Clarke, I agree with you the guy is usually rational and fairly thorough.
(i.e. the phrasing in the account- "mysterious", "barked"- might be down to Dr Clarke more than Grieve)....there are very few quotes attributed to Grieve. For example the run up the MiBs visiting the hotel is just told as fact and/or story, but not as a directly quoted recollection.
@Ann K , are you familiar with your new national delicacy, the deep-fried Mars bar?I'm a native Scot, but that was a long time ago and I've led a sheltered life
To me that sounds about as caloric-overkill as Bob Evans' sweet bacon stuff (honey-glazed, it might be?). However I still enjoy a good fish'n'chips dinner or a plate of mince and tatties, and I've had a lifelong fondness for licorice allsorts.are you familiar with your new national delicacy, the deep-fried Mars bar?
If they had been under surveillance, it wouldn't have been necessary to confront them in public in front of the kitchen staff.Incidentally, it isn't explained how the supposed MiBs identified the witnesses, or knew they were among the gaggle of staff.
This is well before social media, it's hard to see how the MiBs would know what the claimed witnesses looked like unless they had been under prior surveillance, which all seems a bit "overkill". As does sending at least three "operatives"; the two "mysterious figures" got out of the back seat(s).
There's a not dissimilar "Pleiadian Beamship" film he made. Which echos the framing of the Calvine photo with branches in the foreground, overcast sky, hills, low angle shot etc.Billy Meier
I am unable to convince myself that this Mirage fighter jet is not just a bird flying by.The photographer is called Billy Meier and according to him, hes the sole contact person the aliens have decided to talk with.
![]()
There's a not dissimilar "Pleiadian Beamship" film he made.
Wikipedia, Billy Meier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_MeierExternal Quote:In 1997, Meier's ex-wife, Kalliope, told interviewers that his photos were of spaceship models he crafted with items like trash can lids, carpet tacks and other household objects,[22] and that the stories he told of his adventures with the aliens were similarly fictitious. She also said that photos of purported extraterrestrial women "Asket" and "Nera" were really photos of Michelle DellaFave and Susan Lund, members of the singing and dancing troupe The Golddiggers.[23] It was later confirmed that the women in the photographs were members of The Golddiggers performing on The Dean Martin Show.
There is very little music past the eighteenth century that I can tolerate!
I am unable to convince myself that this Mirage fighter jet is not just a bird flying by.
The 3 Stevens photos from supposedly 1994 (this is the most popular of the 3):
It's a B-1B.Without wanting to derail us too much, what is the plane in the Stevens photo meant to be?
Looks to me a bit like an F-101 Voodoo, but checked on Wikipedia, F-101's left US service in 1982 (and Canadian service 1987)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_CF-101_Voodoo.
Also has some resemblance to a B-1 Lancer- but that would be a very strange choice of chase plane/ interceptor (not built or equipped for air-to-air missions, slower and less agile than the much more numerous fighter jets in service in the US at the time).
Also has some resemblance to a B-1 Lancer- but that would be a very strange choice of chase plane/ interceptor (not built or equipped for air-to-air missions, slower and less agile than the much more numerous fighter jets in service in the US at the time).
There's a few more using the same formula [branches, plane, UFO, overcast sky] here, given without much info about dates or locations, starting at around [30:00]Seems odd that someone managed to capture a real UFO or top-secret US aircraft in a photo that almost exactly mimics a style of UFO photo that was popular at the time.
There's a few more using the same formula [branches, plane, UFO, overcast sky] here,
https://badufos.blogspot.com/search?q=Puerto+Rico+UFO+photoExternal Quote:
Rivera was a young man from New York City working a part-time job in a restaurant in Puerto Rico, when he claims to have been abducted by a UFO, and to have gotten this (and several other) photos as the aliens departed.
UFOlogist Wendelle Stevens (1923-2010) had earned, by the end of his life, a thoroughly dismal reputation. He was a major promoter of the preposterous photo hoaxes of the Swiss contactee Billy Meier. Stevens was also convicted of having sex with an underage girl, serving time in prison. He boasted of having a huge collection of UFO photos, sacrificing (one suspects) quality for quantity. We know that Stevens interviewed Rivera in person, so it is reasonable that Stevens might possess more works from Rivera's oeuvre. But that is just conjecture, albeit a plausible one.
I might be nit-picking, and I guess this is of limited relevance, but the Tu-160 Blackjack has a similar-ish tail to the B-1B,The soviets had a number of swing-wing aircraft, such as the Tu-22 Backfire, but none had the unique tail of the B1B
Here are some others from his collection riffing on the same vide:
We are back to the subject of pareidolia again, aren't we. It's been suggested (about a thousand-and-something posts ago) that the Calvine UFO is a small islet and its reflection, and also that the plane in the photo is really a man and a dog in a rowboat with THEIR reflection, and the "hills" at the very bottom are just ripples at the edge of a loch. What a pity we don't have any genuine intergalactic vessel with which to compare shapes, and are stuck with "things that look like we think things should look like according to fiction", while even terrestrial objects can be mistaken for other terrestrial objects.View attachment 69472 View attachment 69473
Looks a bit like a clothing "popper" fastener or a rivet from a pair of jeans.
On balance it's more likely to be a spacecraft from an extraterrestrial civilisation that lives many light years away. Maybe.![]()
A lot of UFO sightings with fighter jets nearby have been reported, all of the photos aside. These reports were posted at NUFORC.
And this one that includes observed FTL travel maybe, and a collective non-remembering followed by a collective remembering. Right around the time of CE3K came out (heavily edited for brevity) (bold by me):External Quote:
Location: Desoto, WI, USA
Shape:
Characteristics: Aircraft nearby, Animals reacted
I seen 3 fighter jets circling my area flying back and forth over my house. After the fighter jets went north, I looked up in the sky and seen what appeared to be tiny little blue stars moving very fast across the sky with absolutely no sound!
Shortly after I seen the moving stars, or what ever it was, I heard a very loud screeching from some type of animal. Not sure what it was but it was freaky!
Unclear if CE3K came out a few months after the experience or the collective re-remembering. If it's in between, that might explain a lot.External Quote:
Location: Joyce Kilmer Slickrock Creek Wilderness, NC, USA
Shape: Circle
Characteristics: Lights on object, Aircraft nearby
very large craft, moving at the speed of light, no sound, lots of lights, jet aircraft came to invesitgate.
While camping in a remote area of western NC under crystal clear skies in mid February, my friends and I noticed a light moving erraticly in the heavens at what appeared to be great altitude.
The light seemd to cris cross the sky at great rates of speed and then began to descend closer to our location.
As we sat mesmerized, all of a sudden this very large craft making no sound rose up from the valley floor and was almost as large as the ridge itself.
The light we had seen earlier in the sky was apparent that it was the underside of the craft and the craft was circled by many flashing and mulit colored lights. We could 'feel' someone was inside and knew that we were there.
. All of a sudden several jets appeared deep in the valley and directly over our camp so low we could see the lights on the wings quite clearly. We counted several jets but in rality this may have been only a couple making passes over our location. It was if the jets came to investigate what the larg craft
never speaking of the incident in 4 hour drive home or for that matter remembering it.
It was at that moment that we all three had a sort of collective memory and began to relate to each other what took place that night and even remmbering not speaking about it until then.
This event has caused great stress to all three of us for the past 25 years and is accomapnied by strange dreams
Also at the risk of ridicule, a few months later the movie 'Close Encounters' came out and we were all completely stunned at how close the final scene was to what we experienced that night. I just cant explain how large this thing was. Thank you
If the jets were at "extremely high altitude" how does our reporter know they are military jets? Or maybe they weren't all that high?External Quote:
As I was watching this happen, I noticed what appeared to be two military jets at extremely high altitude circling the area in a much wider pattern. It then occurred to me that maybe they were looking for these objects. My wife suggested that maybe it was some sort of training exercise.
The link goes on endlessly with different reports. As we've noted before in other threads, a collection of reports from a UFO aggregator that is full of self-reported incidents, preselects for those disposed to think UFOs are aliens and in the sky. People that report to NUFORC, MUFON or others already KNOW there is a NUFORC or MUFON to report to, so something like a bunch of police helicopters buzzing around becomes a UFO and "I know what I seen!"External Quote:
Location: Pompano/Deerfield Beach, FL, USA
Shape: Oval
Characteristics: Lights on object, Aura or haze around object, Aircraft nearby, Electrical or magnetic effects
Fighter Jets Chasing objects in the night sky
At about 11 pm that evening I noticed what sounded like a very loud barritone instument, shortly after that I heard what sounded like fighter jets flying around all over the place and police cars racing around with there sirens blarring. My friend and I walked outside of the house to see what all the commotion was about and thats when we noticed several objects in the sky, some where stationary but there were a few that were moving at incredible speeds high up in the sky, the thing that really freaked me out was how quickly these crafts could change the direction they were traveling in. Although the crafts appeard to be oval in shape with Intense bright lights, one craft was definitly triangular with colorful lights at each peak of the angles. My friend and roomate (who is definitly a non believer) could not come up with an explinition was taken back the entire event.
this report has the characteristic that the sound of low-flying jets makes people look at the sky who usually don't, and also makes it a "special" occasion that provides a context for other unfamiliar (if mundane) observations.External Quote:I seen 3 fighter jets circling my area flying back and forth over my house. After the fighter jets went north, I looked up in the sky and seen what appeared to be tiny little blue stars moving very fast across the sky with absolutely no sound!
Shortly after I seen the moving stars, or what ever it was, I heard a very loud screeching from some type of animal. Not sure what it was but it was freaky!
Very unlikely to be a Blackjack over the USA in 1988 though!
The other 3 appear to be made at the same time with 2 of the same, just with a different crop:
![]()
![]()
![]()
Interestingly, there are background ripples visible here. Are they clouds? Are they artifacts? Or are they, as I still think a strong possibility with the Calvine photos, water instead of sky? The "UFO" bears every resemblance to a partially submerged object (tree?) with its reflection.Which is sometimes cropped and appears like this:
![]()
I cannot get myself to see this at all in the full picture this was cropped from.Interestingly, there are background ripples visible here. Are they clouds? Are they artifacts? Or are they, as I still think a strong possibility with the Calvine photos, water instead of sky? The "UFO" bears every resemblance to a partially submerged object (tree?) with its reflection.
I agree. But the ripples visible in the cropped version give a distinct appearance of water, thus making the object-and-reflection appearance even stronger.
They look like aliasing artifacts from printing then scanning, as they don't appear to be a natural phenomenon out there in its own plane.Interestingly, there are background ripples visible here. Are they clouds? Are they artifacts? Or are they, as I still think a strong possibility with the Calvine photos, water instead of sky? The "UFO" bears every resemblance to a partially submerged object (tree?) with its reflection.
I thought that particular crop was a photo of a monitor. The lines look uniform diagonals bottom left to top right. (slightly adjusted version)They look like aliasing artifacts from printing then scanning
I thought that particular crop was a photo of a monitor. The lines look uniform diagonals bottom left to top right. (slightly adjusted version)
View attachment 69541
Interestingly, there are background ripples visible here. Are they clouds? Are they artifacts? Or are they, as I still think a strong possibility with the Calvine photos, water instead of sky? The "UFO" bears every resemblance to a partially submerged object (tree?) with its reflection.
Are we sure there are not? I'm not 100% certain we even know when it was taken!Yes, it may have been near a low-level training run, but then there would be records of such flights in and around the supposed photo was taken.
I think we're discussing a Russian aircraft in Puerto Rico?While absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, it's still an absence. There are no known records of Harriers operating in Scotland at that time.
I think we're discussing a Russian aircraft in Puerto Rico?
Very true. The whole backstory and date could be completely made up. All we really know is the photo was likely taken before it was sent to the news paper. I say likely because it's still possible it's a composite, so maybe multiple photos taken at various times then joined together before being sent to the news.Are we sure there are not? I'm not 100% certain we even know when it was taken!
Don't mean to accuse anybody of anything here, but reading that caused my brain to think "Newspapers have concocted hoaxes to sell papers before now..." I don't particularly suspect that here, but I suppose it ought to be on the table, and would explain things like nobody at the paper ever coming forward with info on the photographer.All we really know is the photo was likely taken before it was sent to the news paper. I say likely because it's still possible it's a composite, so maybe multiple photos taken at various times then joined together before being sent to the news.
Don't mean to accuse anybody of anything here, but reading that caused my brain to think "Newspapers have concocted hoaxes to sell papers before now..." I don't particularly suspect that here, but I suppose it ought to be on the table, and would explain things like nobody at the paper ever coming forward with info on the photographer.
I thought it's documented that the newspaper contacted the MoD, and they told the paper it's bogus, since they had no such aircraft flying there at the time? That would mean the story lacked corroboration, and thus a quality paper wouldn't print it.. I could speculate as well, that is was a bit of research that showed the story to be bogus.
External Quote:This investigation concludes that the print provided to the researchers by Craig Lindsay is without doubt agenuine copy of the original Calvine photograph analysed by the MoD in 1990.
• This black and white print is most likely to have been made from a copy negative produced by the Daily Recordon Ilford XP-1 film from an original colour print provided by the witness. This print was probably produced on a Colour Mini-Lab machine at the Daily Record prior to the original colour negatives being provided.
• As far as can be determined the image itself is a genuine photograph of a scene before the camera and if any manipulation or construction took place, this was something occurring in the scene rather than in camera or inpost-production. No evidence of any such manipulation before the camera can be found.
• No evidence of the date of the photograph or the location at which the photograph was taken can be derived from the print and for these essential details we are reliant on the eyewitness testimony shared with the DailyRecord and Craig Lindsay.• Although the print is credited to 'Kevin Russell' the true identity of the photographer remains unknown.
• An Teampan, the summit of Struan Point to the south of Calvine is a possible location for the photograph however this cannot be confirmed as the location without further evidence.
• There is insufficient data to reach any conclusion regarding what the unidentified object might be.
• The projected timeline of the photograph being captured on the 4th of August, arriving at the Daily Record in late August and at the MoD on the 10th of September fits with all available evidence.• All evidence provided by the Calvine print, its envelope and the accompanying photocopies, fits with the essential narrative of the sighting provided by Craig Lindsay and other credible sources.
• If the image is the result of a hoax, no evidence of this is present in the image.
This leaves open the possibility of a staged photograph involving a model (or possibly models, including the 'Harrier'), even though the examiner can't find evidence of it.External Quote:As far as can be determined the image itself is a genuine photograph of a scene before the camera and if any manipulation or construction took place, this was something occurring in the scene rather than in camera or in post-production. No evidence of any such manipulation before the camera can be found.
(page 23 of PDF) -which is quite some admission (Robinson makes it clear he thinks this is unlikely).External Quote:Conclusion – Although the possibility of the image being a reflection in the surface of a lake cannot be categorically
ruled out...
-Page 22 of Robinson's PDF; Robinson goes on to explain why he (and maybe ThomasH) thinks this is an unlikely explanation.External Quote:The Danish 3D illustrator who posts on YouTube as ThomasH has produced a much more detailed 3D recreation of the inverted reflection interpretation (ThomasH, 2023a). Here he has created a lake on a valley floor in a highland landscape bounded by a fence on one side with trees or bushes along the opposite bank.