Claim: Ancient Cultures inherited Structures and Artefacts from Pre-Historic Lost Civilizations with Advanced Manufacturing Capabilities

@SkepticSteve
I had never heard of him before, so decided to look him up. In his own words as the intro to his YouTube channel:
External Quote:
"I'm Jimmy Corsetti, and my channel is called Bright Insight. I make video presentations on topics I find most interesting, which include lost ancient mysteries, conspiracies, and the cosmos."
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsIlJ9eYylZQcyfMOPNUz9w

He lays his bias out right at the start, indicating to me that perhaps he is not the person to look to if we want a scholarly opinion. (Edit to add: the first featured video I saw is on his conviction that the richat structure is indeed the site of Atlantis!) It's a lot easier (and quite lucrative) to rehash conspiracies and tell imaginative stories, rather than do the hard work of actually studying a subject in depth.
 
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I know Jim from his YT channel, and have seen his videos. Although I have nothing against him, personally, but his views are in line with things that all the other YT propagate: the Egyptologists are lying to us and hiding this and that bla bla bla. He did similarly on the topic of Atlantis. He genuinely believes it is the Eye of Africa. Do I need to go further? He is not on YT for finding out the history, he is on YT to make a good nice buck over gullible people.

Best to stick to channels as History for Granite, Ancient Architects and others.
 
@SkepticSteve
I had never heard of him before, so decided to look him up. In his own words as the intro to his YouTube channel:
External Quote:
"I'm Jimmy Corsetti, and my channel is called Bright Insight. I make video presentations on topics I find most interesting, which include lost ancient mysteries, conspiracies, and the cosmos."
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsIlJ9eYylZQcyfMOPNUz9w

He lays his bias out right at the start, indicating to me that perhaps he is not the person to look to if we want a scholarly opinion. (Edit to add: the first featured video I saw is on his conviction that the richat structure is indeed the site of Atlantis!) It's a lot easier (and quite lucrative) to rehash conspiracies and tell imaginative stories, rather than do the hard work of actually studying a subject in depth.

He's definetely not a scholar and full of wooish beliefs. But by making overly specific claims such as that 'there is no evidence that the Giza pyramids were built as tombs' he can be debunked.

If I recall masons who worked at the pyramids left inscriptions on stones. Should possibly give a hint to the truth of Corsetti's claims.

not for nothing, Metabunk is interested in mysteries, 'lost ancient mysteries, conspiracies and the cosmos' too.

It are all very beatufiful and charming stories the likes of Graham Hancock, Jim Corsetti or Ben van Kerkwyk tell us and I admit I have a great time listening to them. But I don't want to get fooled/bullshited by crooks who are either not adhering to a basic level of due diligence in doing their research or are deliberately twisting facts to sell a made-up story.
 
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not for nothing, Metabunk is interested in mysteries, 'lost ancient mysteries, conspiracies and the cosmos' too.
You're forgetting the debunking purpose of this site, a thing that requires facts rather than more fantasies and innuendo.
 
You're forgetting the debunking purpose of this site, a thing that requires facts rather than more fantasies and innuendo.
you said
He lays his bias out right at the start, indicating to me that perhaps he is not the person to look to if we want a scholarly opinion.

I'm just pointing out that the quote you chose, doesn't particularly show us readers anything abnormal,imo. It doesn't particularly suggest 'fantasy' or 'innuendo'. (and there is some fantasy and plenty of innuendo on Metabunk too...just saying I think you need a much stronger arguemnt if you are going to discredit his character so that we dismiss everything he says.)

PS that clip is from episode #1742. its not so bad in full context. he talked to some guy whose family has lived across the street from the SPhinx for generations and he is sharing what he was told by the local. He sounds like a college kid who is all excited by a new topic and just sharing info before he has finished his studies fully. I think its good he was on Rogan because the impression i got, from the 3 hours and amount of topics discussed, is that Corsetti doesnt really study this topic full time or anything.

If I recall masons who worked at the pyramids left inscriptions on stones.
Corsetti inspired me to look some stuff up and apparently the inscriptions were only in younger pyramids. ie after 4th dynasty (according to alleged professors on Quora anyway).
 
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I've been watching "World of Antiquity", "History of Granite", and "Ancient Architects" on YouTube lately...

Another great video I found is
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9w-i5oZqaQ&t=17s


It debunks History Channel's "Ancient Aliens" in great details. It's over 3 hours long, so I won't try to summarize it here (please don't delete my post) but it lists a number of fallacies, omissions, and outright manipulations that "Ancient Aliens" and many similar shows commonly engage in.

It's worth a watch if you are interested in that kind of stuff.
 
If I recall masons who worked at the pyramids left inscriptions on stones. Should possibly give a hint to the truth of Corsetti's claims.
Here is a bit from the Wiki on the Great Pyramid, I'm using it for brevity and because some of the source material is in French or German:

External Quote:
The chambers, previously inaccessible, were covered in hieroglyphs of red paint. The workers who were building the pyramid had marked the blocks with the names of their gangs, which included the pharaoh's name (e.g.: “The gang, The white crown of Khnum-Khufu is powerful”). The names of Khufu were spelled out on the walls over a dozen times. Another of these graffiti was found by Goyon on an exterior block of the 4th layer of the pyramid.[11] The inscriptions are comparable to those found at other sites of Khufu, such as the alabaster quarry at Hatnub[12] or the harbor at Wadi al-Jarf, and are present in pyramids of other pharaohs as well.[13][14]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Giza

The footnotes for the above passage are as follows:
External Quote:

11 Georges, Goyon (1944). Les inscriptions et graffiti des voyageurs sur la grande pyramide.
12^ "This 4,500-Year-Old Ramp Contraption May Have Been Used to Build Egypt's Great Pyramid". Live Science. 31 October 2018.
13^ Jump up to:a b c Reisner (1931). Mycerinus: The Temples of the Third Pyramid at Giza. pp. 275, Plan XI, XII.
14^ Quack, Joachim (2004). "Von [xwfw] zu Cheops. Transformationen eines Königsnamens". SOKAR. 9: 3–5.
Number 12 is interesting as it takes us to an article about how the Egyptians move large stones up a steep ramp WITHOUT Atlantean super tech and it includes inscriptions about Kufu, that are consistent with the ones in the Pyramid:

External Quote:
"This system is composed of a central ramp flanked by two staircases with numerous post holes," Yannis Gourdon, co-director of the joint mission at Hatnub, told Live Science. "Using a sled which carried a stone block and was attached with ropes to these wooden posts, ancient Egyptians were able to pull up the alabaster blocks out of the quarry on very steep slopes of 20 percent or more."

The ropes attached to the sled acted as a "force multiplier," making it easier to pull the sled up the ramp, said Roland Enmarch, the other co-director of the Hatnub mission.

"This kind of system has never been discovered anywhere else," Gourdon said. "The study of the tool marks and the presence of two [of] Khufu's inscriptions led us to the conclusion that this system dates back at least to Khufu's reign, the builder of the Great Pyramid in Giza," he added.
https://www.livescience.com/63978-great-pyramid-ramp-discovered.html

Back to the Kufu's Pyramid not being a tomb, Corsetti and the people he's parroting often ignore other evidence. There is the solar boat buried underneath the Great Pyramid that may be a funerary barge:

External Quote:
The Khufu ship is an intact full-size solar barque from ancient Egypt. It was sealed into a pit at the foot of the Great Pyramid of pharaoh Khufu around 2500 BC, during the Fourth Dynasty of the ancient Egyptian Old Kingdom. Like other buried Ancient Egyptian ships, it was apparently part of the extensive grave goods intended for use in the afterlife. The Khufu ship is one of the oldest, largest and best-preserved vessels from antiquity. It is 43.4 metres (142 ft) long and 5.9 metres (19 ft) wide, and has been identified as the world's oldest intact ship, and described as "a masterpiece of woodcraft" that could sail today if put into a lake or a river.

The history and function of the ship is not precisely known. It is of the type known as a "solar barge", a ritual vessel believed by ancient Egyptians to carry the resurrected king across the heavens with the sun god Ra. However, it bears some signs of having been used in water, and it is possible that the ship was either a funerary "barge" used to carry the king's embalmed body from Memphis to Giza, or even that Khufu himself used it as a "pilgrimage ship" to visit holy places and that it was then buried for him to use in the afterlife. It contained no bodies, unlike northern European ship burials.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khufu_ship

There is also a funerary complex near the Pyramid:

External Quote:
The funerary complex around the pyramid consisted of two mortuary temples connected by a causeway (one close to the pyramid and one near the Nile), tombs for the immediate family and court of Khufu, including three smaller pyramids for Khufu's wives, an even smaller "satellite pyramid" and five buried solar barges (boats).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Giza

There is also the cemetery complex near the pyramids:

External Quote:
Throughout the 20th century the cemeteries next to the pyramid were excavated. Family members and high officials of Khufu were buried in the East Field south of the causeway, and the West Field. Most notably the wives, children and grandchildren of Khufu, Hemiunu, Ankhaf and (the funerary cache of) Hetepheres I, mother of Khufu. As Hassan puts it: "From the early dynastic times, it was always the custom for the relatives, friends and courtiers to be buried in the vicinity of the king they had served during life. This was quite in accordance with the Egyptian idea of the Hereafter."

The cemeteries were actively expanded until the 6th dynasty and used less frequently afterwards. The earliest pharaonic name of seal impressions is that of Khufu, the latest of Pepi II. Worker graffiti was written on some of the stones of the tombs as well; for instance, "Mddw" (Horus name of Khufu) on the mastaba of Chufunacht, probably a grandson of Khufu.[15]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Giza

Again the source is in German:

External Quote:
Here is a description of the excavation of the solar barge where the name of Kufu's (Cheops) heir was found:

External Quote:
There were two sets of stones, forty to the west, forty-one to the east, apparently covering two separate pits, with a partition between the two pits that fell precisely along the axis of the south face of the pyramid. On one of the blocks, protruding slightly above the others that covered the eastern pit, Mallakh could read upside down part of the cartouche, the royal name enclosed in a sacred oval ring, of King Djedefre, third in the line of Fourth Dynasty kings, the son and heir of Cheops
http://www.gizapyramids.org/static/pdf library/jenkins_boat.pdf

There is also the possible burial of Kufu's mother near by:

1680886512247.png

http://giza.fas.harvard.edu/ancientpeople/75/full/

Here is a counterpoint. In addition to questioning the pyramids being a tomb, likeminded people also question if Kufu built it. These two ideas are usually intertwined. The Author lists his bio like this:
External Quote:


Written by Ivan Petricevic​

I've been writing passionately about ancient civilizations, history, alien life, and various other subjects for more than eight years. You may have seen me appear on Discovery Channel's What On Earth series, History Channel's Ancient Aliens, and Gaia's Ancient Civilizations among others.
External Quote:
Despite a lack of records, Egyptologists believe that the Pyramid was constructed over a twenty-year period by gangs of workers during Khufu’s reign. This claim is based on a mark in an interior chamber of the Pyramid, which was supposedly left there by a work gang. This mark makes reference to Khufu. However, this mark has often been dismissed by skeptics as a 19th-century production.

The tomb of Khufu has never been found. There are three known chambers inside the Pyramid–although there are possibly two unconfirmed rooms that are still unexplored–and one of them houses a gigantic sarcophagus.

When modern scholars entered the Pyramid, they found this chamber empty. The king’s mummy has never been found, and neither has the mummy of Sneferu, Djoser, Menkaure, or Khafre been found. All of them built pyramids. The absence of mummies in the pyramids has been explained by scholars in the past.
https://curiosmos.com/unwritten-mys...hufu-may-not-have-built-egypts-great-pyramid/

The author then pivots to some 19th century musings on the Sphinx:

External Quote:
Interestingly, Flinders Petrie, another expert in Egyptology wrote in 1883 regarding the state of opinion regarding the age of the nearby temples, and by extension the Sphinx:

The date of the Granite Temple [Valley Temple] has been so positively asserted to be earlier than the fourth dynasty, that it may seem rash to dispute the point.
To conclude:

External Quote:
If theories held by academic Egyptologists regarding the age and builder of the Sphinx are not universally accepted, why do we blindly accept we know when the Great Pyramid was built, and who built it?
I'll note that the above author, Petricevic, like Corsetti and even Hancock have zero training in Archeology, Egyptology, History or even any claimed degree at all in a relevent field. Corsetti claims a BA in Communications and an MBA, but doesn't list from where:

External Quote:
About Jimmy: - Independent researcher - Former Corporate Fraud Investigator - Army/Iraq war Veteran who woke up
Education: - Master of Business Administration (MBA) w/Marketing focus - Bachelor of Communication & Sociology; Minor: Religious Studies - Thousands of hours of research in subjects such as, lost ancient civilizations, the cosmos, philosophy and spirituality.
https://www.youtube.com/@BrightInsight/about
 
I've been watching "World of Antiquity", "History of Granite", and "Ancient Architects" on YouTube lately...

Another great video I found is
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9w-i5oZqaQ&t=17s


It debunks History Channel's "Ancient Aliens" in great details. It's over 3 hours long, so I won't try to summarize it here (please don't delete my post) but it lists a number of fallacies, omissions, and outright manipulations that "Ancient Aliens" and many similar shows commonly engage in.

It's worth a watch if you are interested in that kind of stuff.

This is just one that explains why the History channel gets it wrong. If you google, for example, "Hancock debunked", you can find endless hours of people - genuine scholars, historians, and professional archaeologists - who take apart his Netflix series in minute detail. Probably the same search method will find debunks for the others of his ilk. Scientists are (rightly) irate about pseudoscience, and are speaking out in greater numbers.
 
Scientists are (rightly) irate about pseudoscience, and are speaking out in greater numbers.

Yeah, but they aint getting on The Joe Rogan Experience unfortunately. Or Netflix or any of the Discovery channel outlets. Though, I believe Mick was on Rogan's show at one point? The sad thing is "real" science isn't sexy enough. Rogan is about entertainment first and being an "independent thinker" and people like Hancock and Corsetti are smooth talkers with easy to understand challenges to the "orthodoxy". The counterpoint to them is often much more nuanced, complicated and doesn't make for good media.

I was with friends in Baja last week and when the subject of UFOs came up, one of them said "Well I didn't believe, but now the government is saying there are alien UAPs". I tried to try to explain how a lot of what was reported was wrong, but that involves explaining how the Skinwalker Ranch crowd became involved in the DoD's UAP research, which means trying to explain the history of AASWAP and Skinwalker Ranch and BASS and Bigelow's ISD and well...just pass the tequila bottle. It's just too complicated.

I will confess to not understanding the whole Discovery networks and things like Ancient Aliens or Ghost Hunters. I guess they appeal to a very distinct niche audience, but from what I've read that is ~500,000 to 1million viewers that are largely middle to older aged white men, often of a lower economic strata. Who wants to advertise to these guys?

I used to not understand Golf on TV, it's like watching paint dry and as contractor I rather watch paint dry, at least I know I'm accomplishing something. But then I learned the audience for Golf, though limited, is often in a higher economic strata. Well off people that will spend money on golf clubs, high end travel and other stuff, so advertisers are willing to spend, even for a smaller audience. But again, who wants to advertise to the Ancient Alien crowd?

Sorry, I appear to be ranting. I used to love the Discovery Channel and the Learning Channel and Travel Channel when they were those actual things. Now I sound like a grumpy old man: "Back in my day we had to watch MTV to see our favorite band, now you kids just find it on YouTube whenever you want, it aint right I tell you!".

Apologies.
 
Yeah, but they aint getting on The Joe Rogan Experience unfortunately.
I've never heard Joe Rogan. I don't even know anyone who listens to Joe Rogan. I guess I've lived a sheltered life, but I found it to be strange that you lead off with that. :) The problem of misinformation being more entertaining and more popular than science, though, is not a new phenomenon, and has probably been true throughout human history. It's worse now only because we live at a time when information is at everyone's fingertips 24/7, and that's been weaponized by everyone from politicians to advertisers.
 
but from what I've read that is ~500,000 to 1million viewers that are largely middle to older aged white men, often of a lower economic strata. Who wants to advertise to these guys?
i havent had cable for decades, but on streaming "tv" i get a ton of medication commercials, jewelry/perfume and insurance commercials. No matter what i'm watching. I'm guessing my "tv" knows im an older female. :)

Screenshot 2023-04-08 082839.png

https://today.yougov.com/topics/entertainment/explore/tv_show/Ancient_Aliens
 
I've never heard Joe Rogan. I don't even know anyone who listens to Joe Rogan. I guess I've lived a sheltered life, but I found it to be strange that you lead off with that.
Rogan is the #1 podcaster. I never heard of him except through Metabunk. I dont know anyone who listens to any podcasts (to be fair i dont even know how you listen to podcasts...i assume it started off as an i-pod? thing...since they are called podcasts? one sister-in-law is the only person i "know" ever had an i-pod)

Add: i also never heard of alex jones before MB. and to this day i still have no idea what channel people used watch alex jones on.
 
I've never heard Joe Rogan. I don't even know anyone who listens to Joe Rogan. I guess I've lived a sheltered life, but I found it to be strange that you lead off with that.

The clip above of Corsetti claiming the pyramid is not a tomb is from the Joe Rogan Experience podcast. As @deirdre alluded to above, he is literally one of the most, if not the most popular podcaster in the world:

External Quote:
"The Joe Rogan Experience" reaches a reported average of 11 million people per podcast episode.

Fox News reigns as the most-watched cable news network, taking ten of the top viewership 15 spots. The top cable news spot goes to Carlson with 3.21 million viewers on average, Adweek reported on Nielsen data Monday.

Conservative reporter Luke Rudkowski pointed out Rogan's larger audience using 2021 Quarter 3 ratings. The most recent rating data from Adweek is slightly off from Q3, but overall remains the same.

"This is why they are afraid of Rogan," Rudkowski tweeted with a graph comparing the most popular cable news shows.
https://justthenews.com/accountabil...dcast-reaches-millions-more-cable-news-report

Hancock in a regular on Rogan's show in addition to the millions he's preaching to on Netflix. Here is a good rebuttal of Hancock's Netflix show by professional archaeologist Carl Feagans:

https://ahotcupofjoe.net/2022/12/ancient-apocalypse-summary-of-the-series-from-a-professional-pov/

While it doesn't list the number of "views" it's received, I'm going out on a limb and suggesting it's a bit less than 11 million.

I assume you're a female boomer, so no, Rogan is not in your wheel house. He comes from the world of MMA, cage fighting, and his show is very dude-centric. I don't listen myself, but in most of the clips I've heard, it kinda sounds like a bunch of guys sitting around in a man-cave talking guy stuff, without the overt sex stuff like Howard Stern. "Hey Joe, I think the government is lying about vaccines." "Yeah, I'm not saying they are, but I don't trust them." "What have you found out lately Mr. Hancock?" " Well Joe....." And so on.
 
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I think Jeremy Corbell has been on a few times in recent years. There really seems to be a growing trend in people just being against the mainstream. Russel Brand seems to be going the same way (he was once a new agey student leftie type).

On the topic of ancient cultures, potholer54 has a new video out on Ancient Apocalypse. He looks at the Gobleke Tepe episode. It really shows Hancock’s approach of making things up, leaving things out and creating false dichotomies.
 
I assume you're a female boomer, so no, Rogan is not in your wheel house. He comes from the world of MMA, cage fighting, and his show is very dude-centric. I don't listen myself, but in most of the clips I've heard, it kinda sounds like a bunch of guys sitting around in a man-cave talking guy stuff, without the overt sex stuff like Howard Stern. "Hey Joe, I think the government is lying about vaccines." "Yeah, I'm not saying they are, but I don't trust them." "What have you found out lately Mr. Hancock?" " Well Joe....." And so on.
Female, but pre-boomer. ;) And nothing you've described makes me any more likely to listen to him, especially if he is as "reliable" as FOX.
 
I assume you're a female boomer, so no, Rogan is not in your wheel house. He comes from the world of MMA, cage fighting, and his show is very dude-centric. I don't listen myself, but in most of the clips I've heard, it kinda sounds like a bunch of guys sitting around in a man-cave talking guy stuff
Well, he also has scientists. At least in his interviews with Peter Attia, yet Joe Rogan doesn't get much chance to contribute anything clever in this one ;) But I've seen other examples from the sports and health fields where he's quite reputable and he has some expertise in training, which doesn't make him a caveman ;)


Source: https://youtu.be/92kYDVjX0G0
 
Well, he also has scientists. At least in his interviews with Peter Attia, yet Joe Rogan doesn't get much chance to contribute anything clever in this one ;) But I've seen other examples from the sports and health fields where he's quite reputable and he has some expertise in training, which doesn't make him a caveman ;)

Not to go down a Joe Rogan rabbit hole, but this thread is about ancient technology and some of the biggest disseminators of that idea are regulars on his show.

Yes, he has all kinds of people on his show, but my point is its very dude/male/masculine leaning. I don't mean he's a Caveman as in dumb, he's quite bright. I said his show is like a group of guys hanging out in a Man-Cave talking. It's how Rogan himself described the show (bold by me):

External Quote:
In December 2009, Rogan launched a free podcast with his friend and fellow comedian Brian Redban.[10][65] The first episode was recorded on December 24 and was to be a live weekly broadcast on Ustream,[66] with Rogan and Redban "sitting in front of laptops bullshitting"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Rogan

Reminds me of when I used to share a shop with a few other contractors, we had FATS (Friday At The Shop). We'd all meet up on Friday afternoon for drinks and BS. Had I only known then that I could have recorded it, I'd have my own show now:oops: (We really need a palm to forehead emoji).

In fact, one could argue that having Dr. Attia on to discuss health and longevity one week and then following him up with Hancock or Corsetti, gives more credence to the latter.
 
Another specific claim. Jim Corsetti claiming on Joe Rogan that the Ancient Egyptians didn't have the logitistics to transport the massive stones needed at the Giza construction sites:

 
Another specific claim. Jim Corsetti claiming on Joe Rogan that the Ancient Egyptians didn't have the logitistics to transport the massive stones needed at the Giza construction sites:

This guy is a regular thread generating machine! Maybe these different claims should be different threads, although I guess it's all under the umbrella of "Ancient Egyptians needed tech from Atlantis". So, off to the internet to find out how they moved blocks.
 
The first problem right off the top is the boat Corsetti seems to be talking about. I think the images that are being shown while he and Rogan talk are of Kufu's Solar Bargue as discussed in post #88.

Here is the image used in the podcast/video:

1681086525157.png


And here is Kufu's boat as it appeared in the specially constructed museum for it next to the Great Pyramid:

800px-Gizeh_Sonnenbarke_BW_2.jpg
1280px-Cheops-Pyramide_Schiffsmuseum.JPG


External Quote:
The Giza Solar boat museum was dedicated to display the reconstructed Khufu ship, a solar barque of pharaoh Khufu. It was constructed between 1961 and 1982, just a few meters from where the Khufu ship was found, on the southern side of the Great Pyramid, on the Giza Plateau in Egypt[1]

It was equipped with modern techniques and technologies to preserve the solar boat. The construction enabled viewing the boat from three different levels. On the ground floor, one could view the bottom of the boat.

The museum was dismantled after the ship was relocated to the Grand Egyptian Museum in August 2021.[2][3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giza_Solar_boat_museum

So, it looks like they're talking about Kufu,s solar barque. They then say it is a "shit-box" and a "canoe". Its 140' long and nearly 20' wide, so I don't think canoe is quite accurate. Note the part I bolded as I'll get to that:

External Quote:
It measures 43.4 meters (142 ft) long and 5.9 metres (19 ft) wide. It was thus identified as the world's oldest intact ship and has been described as "a masterpiece of woodcraft" that could sail today if put into a lake, or a river.[4] However, the vessel may not have been designed for sailing, as there is no rigging, or for rowing, as there is no room.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khufu_ship

As for "shit-box", here is a description of how it was built:

External Quote:
The Cheops ship is an example of the "shell-first" construction that lasted until about 1000 ce. The builders first put together the hull, adding the internal structural members only after the external shell was complete. The boat has no keel. Instead, the hull is built around a flat bottom made up of 8 timbers, averaging 13 meters in length and 13 centimeters in thickness. Two nearly symmetrical sets of planking form the remainder of the shell, with 11 large planks on each side. These strakes are lashed together from rail to rail, scarfed together at their ends, and further secured with 467 tenons. In the water, the timbers would expand and the rope lashings shrink, resulting in a strong, watertight fit. Thin wooden strips (battens) cover the inboard faces of the seams between the planks. Over the battens are fitted 16 floor timbers—large, curved pieces, each shaped from a single piece of cedar, lashed to the strakes to strengthen the hull. The long sturdy center girder, or spine, runs longitudinally amidships, held up by forked stanchions attached to the floor timbers. The 66 deck beams are supported by the spine and notched sheer strakes. The deck beams, in turn, are dadoed to receive the square and trapezoidal sections of decking.
https://web.archive.org/web/2005032...aderscomp/ships/html/sh_019900_cheopsship.htm

The boat in question was likely built as some sort of ritual or funerary barge, possibly to carry the dead Kufu from Memphis to Giza or maybe the living Kufu to visit his pyramid. It was then disassembled and buried near him at the pyramid as this was in keeping with what started in the earlier dynasties:

External Quote:
The Abydos boats were found in boat graves with their prows pointed towards the Nile.[12] Experts consider them to have been the royal boats intended for the pharaoh in the afterlife.[13] Umm el-Qa'ab is a royal necropolis that is about one mile from the Abydos boat graves where early pharaohs were entombed.

The Abydos boats are the predecessors of the great solar boats of later dynasties upon which the pharaoh joined the sun god Ra and together journeyed down the sacred Nile during the day.[14] They would have had many of the important attributes and metaphors that were attached to the solar barques of later dynasties, and indeed perhaps should be called solar boats of an earlier design.[15] The Khufu ship, built for the Pharaoh Khufu – Cheops – ca. 2500 BC., is usually identified as the earliest solar barque. It was buried in a pit at the foot of the Great Pyramid at Giza.[16]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abydos_boats

Bottom line, they're not talking about a "working" boat, rather a ceremonial one.

Corsetti then makes the claim that "this is the biggest boat ever found" from ancient Egypt, inferring that there were never any bigger ones. This is the classic "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" fallacy. The only reason this boat survived is because it was purposely buried for use by Kufu in the afterlife. Any similar, though larger, "working" wooden boat from 4000 years ago would not have survived.

I gotta make dinner now. More tomorrow.
 
Jim Corsetti claiming on Joe Rogan that there is no evidence in the Giza pyramids that they were built as tombs:

Jim Corsetti's claims:
(1) The Egyptians believed in a people called the Kemet/ Khemit, the people who came before the Egyptians.
(2) "Even the locals didn't believe that" [that the pyramids were pharaonic tombs]
(3) No glyph was ever found in an Egyptian pyramid
(4) No mummy (mummified corpse) was found in an Egyptian pyramid.

Plausible responses to Jim Corsetti's claims:

(1)
Khemit/ Kemet was the local name for ancient Egypt.
IIRC it is normally translated as something like "black land" or "black earth", broadly accepted to be a reference to the rich dark soil along the course of the Nile and around the Nile Delta.
I read or heard that the adjective of Kemet- which I forget- was applied by the Egyptians to themselves, not to other peoples outside of the Kingdom's political boundaries.
Not to be confused with Kermit, a frog-headed cult figure of later provenance; possibly as late as the Nixon administration.
5TReko6kc.jpg


(2)
There is little political or religious continuity from ancient Egypt to the 1800's. Knowledge of the ancient culture largely evaporated, with waves of invasion and foreign occupation, and/ or cultural imposition, from about 400 BC onwards.
The "locals" hadn't used (or understood) hieroglyphs since perhaps 400 AD.
From around 650 AD Egypt was part of the Arab (and Islamic) world. Egyptians adopted the Arabic language.
Muslim scholars catalogued and described many ancient Egyptian structures, but they also didn't understand hieroglyphs.
It is unlikely that serious study of earlier Egyptian religious and funerary practices was encouraged.
Most of our knowledge of ancient Egypt has been gained since the de-cyphering of the Rosetta Stone in the early 19th century, not from local lore. The inhabitants of Giza and Cairo in the early 19th century almost certainly had less knowledge about ancient Egypt than we do.

(3)
As NorCal Dave has said, mason's glyphs have been found on blocks which are part of Khufu's pyramid,
Here is a bit from the Wiki on the Great Pyramid, I'm using it for brevity and because some of the source material is in French or German:

The chambers, previously inaccessible, were covered in hieroglyphs of red paint. The workers who were building the pyramid had marked the blocks with the names of their gangs, which included the pharaoh's name (e.g.: “The gang, The white crown of Khnum-Khufu is powerful”). The names of Khufu were spelled out on the walls over a dozen times
and as Deirdre has pointed out, there were extensive bodies of text (composed of glyphs, obviously) from the 5th Dynasty onward.
i took "mason inscriptions" to mean ex:
Téti-textes.jpg

(My example), from the burial chamber of the pyramid of Teti, 6th Dynasty c. 23rd century BC, from Wikipedia "Pyramid of Teti",
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_of_Teti accessed 10/04/23.
Lots of glyphs, not only inside a pyramid but from inside the burial chamber.

So Corsetti's claim is wrong.
Corsetti inspired me to look some stuff up and apparently the inscriptions were only in younger pyramids. ie after 4th dynasty
The stuff I read said much the same.

If Corsetti had limited his claim to saying that there were no texts (as opposed to individual glyphs) in 4th Dynasty pyramids (e.g. the Red Pyramid, pyramids of Khufu, Khefren and Menkaure) he might have had a point- but he didn't qualify his claim.
And the absence of text doesn't mean a structure isn't a tomb.

This is what a professional Egyptologist says- I'm attaching the relevant pdf below; I get the impression this guy knows his stuff.
Kanawati, N., Decoration of Burial Chambers, Sarcophagi and Coffins in the Old Kingdom, Ch.6 of
Studies in Honor of Ali Radwan, Vol. 2, Eds. Daoud, K., Shafia, B., El-Fatah, S.A.,
Publications De Conseil Supreme Des Antiquites De L'Egypte, Cairo, 2005,
Link: https://gizamedia.rc.fas.harvard.ed...ge/full/library/kanawati_fs_radwan_55to71.pdf

Mr Kanawati writes, [separate quotes in consecutive order]
Until late in the Fifth Dynasty reign of Djedkare/Isesi, walls of burial chambers were bare of any decoration.
The 'unfinished' appearance of the surfaces of many burial chambers may well have been intentional.
Theoretically, the burial chamber was not considered as a place where the deceased would spend most of his/her time; it was merely a safe place for the protection of the corpse.
In accordance with the above discussion the smoothness and decoration of the walls of the burial chamber were unnecessary...

(4)
Very little of anything has been found inside pyramids explored in the last two or three centuries, as they'd been broken into before. Some break-ins have been historically recorded, but there have been many times- notably ancient Egypt's three "intermediate periods"- when there may have been opportunities for undocumented looting.
There have been other periods of tumult, and long periods of control by foreign dynasties or states, in Egypt's long history.

However, in Teti's pyramid (Wikipedia link above) looters had left a sarcophagus and
...one of the canopic jars containing the viscera of the king.
The ancient Egyptians had complex funerary rites, but having your bits interred in different places wasn't one of them.

And, in the pyramid of Merenre Nemtyemsaf I (Wikipedia, "Merenre Nemtyemsaf I", accessed 10/04/23)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merenre_Nemtyemsaf_I
A mummy was uncovered in the burial chamber.

NorCal Dave gave us a picture of Khufu's sarcophagus, Khafre's pyramid also contained a sarcophagus, broken lid on the floor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_of_Khafre Wikipedia, "Pyramid of Khafre", accessed 10/04/23.

There is also a funerary complex near the Pyramid
Not only that, all three main pyramids at Giza have funerary temples. A number of mastabas and rock-cut tombs are associated with "Khufu" and "Khafre", "Menkaure" has three small "queen's" pyramids.
The whole Giza complex is clearly a place of elite burials.
Some other pyramids in Egypt also have funerary temples and associated lesser tombs (for wives, other family, courtiers).

Corsetti might think that, having built extraordinary pyramids, each containing a sarcophagus, and elaborate tombs for their wives and favoured others nearby, Khufu, Khafre and Menkaure all overlooked the need to build a tomb for themselves, or decided to be anonymous in death.
I don't think the evidence supports this.
 

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Frankly, I don't care much what Jimmy and all these other charlatans have to say, it is clearly just for entertainment purposes. But I do like to read the counter arguments here.

"They" make use of the fact that we simply do not know everything about the ancients. We know a great deal, but there are things we still don't and perhaps never will. "They" take great advantage of this and try to fill in the gaps with fantasies. That is all fun, yes, but a whole generation of kids is now spoon-fed with non sense, and that worries me (well I worry a lot about the near future, but this is just one of them).
 
That is all fun, yes, but a whole generation of kids is now spoon-fed with non sense

Yeah, I was particularly depressed when doing a bit of research for this thread. In addition to Netflix and Joe Rogan, we're battling the search engines. When I searched for "how Egyptians moved big stones" or "Inscriptions in Kufu's pyramid", the first time around, BING's top hit was the website curiosmos.com. So, this light-saber wielding "expert" on all things ancient:
External Quote:


Written by Ivan Petricevic​

I've been writing passionately about ancient civilizations, history, alien life, and various other subjects for more than eight years. You may have seen me appear on Discovery Channel's What On Earth series, History Channel's Ancient Aliens, and Gaia's Ancient Civilizations among others.
As I selected more "sciencey" links, it seems BING caught on to me and trying the same search terms again, Mr. Petricevic was moved down the page, though still on the first page and in the top 10.
 
That is all fun, yes, but a whole generation of kids is now spoon-fed with non sense, and that worries me
Totally agree.
"Who controls the past, controls the future" -George Orwell, 1984.

I don't think that most of the "alternative thinkers" promulgating pseudo-history mean harm, though I guess many of the more well-known ones realise that if they changed tack and supported more mainstream viewpoints, the numbers of (e.g.) YouTube views they get, media appointments and books sold would collapse. There's an incentive to carry on producing twaddle.

The real problem lies in the subverting of interest and confidence in the work of more sober researchers. This can lead the field open to deliberate manipulation or suppression of historical facts, and the creation of fake narratives, for political ends.
 
If Corsetti had limited his claim to saying that there were no texts (as opposed to individual glyphs) in 4th Dynasty pyramids (e.g. the Red Pyramid, pyramids of Khufu, Khefren and Menkaure) he might have had a point- but he didn't qualify his claim.
And the absence of text doesn't mean a structure isn't a tomb.
personally i feel the absence of text would more verify the pyramid as a tomb. i still cannot imagine scrawling graffiti on a "God's" tomb, let alone signing it with the name of your gang. Am i really going to build a tomb to God God and scrawl on it "God rocks, love deirdre"? I guess if we go with the idea Kings were just 'representatives' of Gods it might be more plausible. still seems incredibly disrespectful to me to scrawl graffiti on a tomb.

but.. when listening to the full context of what Corsetti was saying in that episode, i take it to mean there were no glyphs found before the British came.
(i could be wrong but that's how i hear it. esp since he must know there are alleged "workers" glyphs known about now. and he does specifically mention that he is not talking about "The Red Pyramid" .
I think a 50 second edited/spliced clip isnt really fair to go by, i can make a few 50 second montages where Mick accidentally calls contrails chemtrails on the Joe Rogan show, that would make it sound like Mick is admitting chemtrails...because our words during a long conversation aren't always accurate or strung together properly as we would do in a written statement or lecture presentation.)
 
I think a 50 second edited/spliced clip isnt really fair to go by
Point taken, but I think I disagree.
I don't think it was a hostile edit, manufactured to make Corsetti look like he was saying something that he didn't intend.
Here's the clip again:



From YouTube, "Ancient Egyptians Never Claimed The Pyramids - Joe Rogan" posted by The Stoic Mind, 01/04/23,
accessed 11/04/23 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdg865fAks8

I posted
Jim Corsetti's claims:
(1) The Egyptians believed in a people called the Kemet/ Khemit, the people who came before the Egyptians.
Corsetti actually said,
"The people in Egypt, they believed in what's called Khemit, the people that existed before the Egyptians"
Wrong.
Khemit literally means "black land" or similar. It's widely accepted that it was the name of the ancient Egyptian state.

(2) "Even the locals didn't believe that" [that the pyramids were pharaonic tombs]
Corsetti said:
"When we hear these stories about the Great Pyramid being a tomb for the pharaoh it's worth mentioning, that even the locals didn't believe that"
Almost certainly irrelevant, rationale in my post (link above).

(3) No glyph was ever found in an Egyptian pyramid
Corsetti said:
"And it's worth mentioning, that when you go through inside these pyramids of Giza there's not one single glyph in any of them, whatsoever"
Wrong.
Very clearly refuted by NorCal Dave's evidence,
The chambers, previously inaccessible, were covered in hieroglyphs of red paint.

(4) No mummy (mummified corpse) was found in an Egyptian pyramid.
Corsetti said:
"There was never a mummy found in any Egyptian pyramid ever"
Wrong.
As well as the example of Merenre Nemtyemsaf I in my post (link above), mummified remains believed to be of Pharaoh Djedkare Isesi were found in his pyramid (Wikipedia, "Djedkare Isesi", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djedkare_Isesi)

I don't think any editing of the clip materially altered what Jim Corsetti wanted to say, unless each of his four statements (above) was preceded by him saying something like,
"It's been said that..."
and was followed by,
"...but the evidence shows otherwise." ...and the editors naughtily cut those crucial words. Which I doubt very much!

esp since he must know there are alleged "workers" glyphs known about now.
Maybe he doesn't know, or doesn't care. He doesn't seem overly perturbed by facts that contradict his claims.
 
Corsetti actually said,
"The people in Egypt, they believed in what's called Khemit, the people that existed before the Egyptians"
Wrong.
Khemit literally means "black land" or similar. It's widely accepted that it was the name of the ancient Egyptian state.
i don't see how you are saying anything different than Corsetti. but then i listened to the 30 mins or so flanking that clip.

"When we hear these stories about the Great Pyramid being a tomb for the pharaoh it's worth mentioning, that even the locals didn't believe that"
Almost certainly irrelevant, rationale in my post (link above).
i agree with your argument, but Corsetti offers a useful/interesting point to ponder. Rogan also brings up how the library at ALexandria was burned (which can also be it's own thread :) ..but point is TONS of data was lost at some point long ago. )



"And it's worth mentioning, that when you go through inside these pyramids of Giza there's not one single glyph in any of them, whatsoever"
Wrong.
Very clearly refuted by NorCal Dave's evidence,
he's talking about glyphs that say it is being built as a tomb. (and again i dont believe the workers would have defiled a tomb with useless graffiti)


1:31:00 "there is absolutely nothing from the ancient egyptians in any type of glyph that depicts..well there's only a couple of examples of pyramids but it's burial sites right next to them, but it's very primitive and its like that's it, there's nothing else showing anything about it, nothing depicting that pharoahs ..or this was the place that they were burying kings.
"There was never a mummy found in any Egyptian pyramid ever"
Wrong.
As well as the example of Merenre Nemtyemsaf I in my post (link above), mummified remains believed to be of Pharaoh Djedkare Isesi were found in his pyramid (Wikipedia, "Djedkare Isesi",
He's talking about the 4th dynasty* and he does tell Joe (around 1:34;00ish?) it is of course possible the pyramids were looted and the mummies stolen.

*again i assume his statement is still referring to the 4th dynasty because lot sof people or parts of people have been found in various pyramids throughout the ages. Or you are correct and he throwing out a wild statement many listeners would know to be untrue, ergo throwing all his [3 hours worth of] speculations into question.




note: I do think alot of what he says throughout the 3 hours is bunk or just very naïve, but to judge his words based on a 45 seconds clip of a 3 hour talk seems unfair.
 
Jimmy and the others are taking advantage of the fact that we don't know much about the way the Giza pyramid complex was built, making it a perfect case of "mystery" that can be exploited. Because nobody can prove (written records) the Giza pyramids were built to bury Pharaohs (like Khufu), gives an opportunity to come up with alternative reasons beyond tombs. Examples of course are "power plants" or alien landing zones..
It is very convenient to exploit something like this. It is very similar to how UFOs are treated, or BF.
 
I think Deirdre's absolutely right that generally we should be cautious about using edited clips to judge someone's message.
But, again, there's no indication that the clip (of Jim Corsetti on a Joe Rogan programme) was a hostile edit; it appears to be a condensed precis of Corsetti's views.

, i don't see how you are saying anything different than Corsetti. but then i listened to the 30 mins or so flanking that clip.
Corsetti said:
"The people in Egypt, they believed in what's called Khemit, the people that existed before the Egyptians"

I pointed out:
Khemit literally means "black land" or similar. It's widely accepted that it was the name of the ancient Egyptian state.
Khemit was the name of their country, derived from a description of the environment, like "Aotearoa" is the Maori name for New Zealand, probably from "long white cloud". Khemit is not the Egyptian word for people who came before them.
With the best will in the world, Deirdre, I don't understand your comment "i don't see how you are saying anything different..."


i dont believe the workers would have defiled a tomb with useless graffiti

Who says they were defiling the tomb? Maybe it wasn't "useless graffiti" in the minds of the men who wrote it.
The chambers, previously inaccessible, were covered in hieroglyphs of red paint. The workers who were building the pyramid had marked the blocks with the names of their gangs, which included the pharaoh's name (e.g.: “The gang, The white crown of Khnum-Khufu is powerful”). The names of Khufu were spelled out on the walls over a dozen times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Giza
The work team's name seems to honour Khufu (or at least seeks reflected glory for them by associating themselves with Khufu).
And they have written the names of Khufu, over and over.

The belief was that the pharoah's ka (maybe similar to "soul" or "spirit") would rise from the body, and would move about.
...the ka, the life force, which, unlike the body, was believed to be able to freely move through any medium, rested in the actual body at night in the darkness of the burial chamber, and spent the day in the chapel, the house of the ka.
Kanawati, N., Decoration of Burial Chambers, Sarcophagi and Coffins in the Old Kingdom, Ch.6, Studies in Honor of Ali Radwan, Vol. 2, Eds. Daoud, K., Shafia, B., El-Fatah, S.A., Publications De Conseil Supreme Des Antiquites De L'Egypte, Cairo, 2005,
Link: https://gizamedia.rc.fas.harvard.ed...ge/full/library/kanawati_fs_radwan_55to71.pdf

Maybe the workers wanted to show Khufu (or Khufu's ka) that they knew who the tomb was for, and that they had proudly named their team in his honour. Conjecture on my part, but maybe they thought the risen Khufu would see the name of the work team, and that they remembered his name, and that he would somehow favour them for their work and remembrance.
Khufu's name was written "...over a dozen times." I wonder if each name was written by a different person- each member of the final crew showing that they were thinking of the great king, each hoping for his consideration in this life or the next?

(Khufu was probably wise not to use British contractors, his ka might've been greeted with 27 cold teabags on the floor and a crumpled girlie mag in the corner).


Consetti said, "There was never a mummy found in any Egyptian pyramid ever" (my emphasis).
He's talking about the 4th dynasty*
No, he said "any Egyptian pyramid", "ever"!
*again i assume his statement is still referring to the 4th dynasty because lot sof people or parts of people have been found in various pyramids throughout the ages. Or you are correct and he throwing out a wild statement many listeners would know to be untrue, ergo throwing all his [3 hours worth of] speculations into question.
Your second option (above) is the more likely I think. Though I'd replace "you" [me!] with "archaeologists", I haven't any special insight- anything I might know about pyramids is from books and TV. Er, and Wikipedia. And junior school (where we were told they were built by slaves).

Moderator's note, video removed for lack of descrption.

At least he has respect for those that devote their careers to study and increasing our knowledge...
...the mainstream archaeologists, scientists, Egyptologists, guys they're no.. they're , they're people, they're no different than the establishment that exists in the media, or our politicians, and you just ultimately see that, people look out for themselves more than they look out for the masses...
Or maybe not.
 
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I know Jim from his YT channel, and have seen his videos. Although I have nothing against him, personally, but his views are in line with things that all the other YT propagate: the Egyptologists are lying to us and hiding this and that bla bla bla. He did similarly on the topic of Atlantis. He genuinely believes it is the Eye of Africa. Do I need to go further? He is not on YT for finding out the history, he is on YT to make a good nice buck over gullible people.

Best to stick to channels as History for Granite, Ancient Architects and others.
Best to stick to channels as History for Granite, Ancient Architects and others.
 
Those channels are biased as well. Until such time as archaeology can explain the evidence for advanced machining, channels like Corsetti's will continue to do well.
 
Those channels are biased as well. Until such time as archaeology can explain the evidence for advanced machining, channels like Corsetti's will continue to do well.
The key lies in this (bold by me). There is no "advanced machining" needed to explain what we see. Tube drills? Not really "advanced" if you ask me. Copper saws?
Also, they (Jimmy et al) continuously introduce things like "they did not have diamond tipped saw blades, therefore impossible", but it has been proven by experiment that one does not need diamonds at all.
You see, that is why it will continue, no need to "explain" anything as they (Jimmy et al) will never believe it because it is coming from "the establishment".
 
Those channels are biased as well. Until such time as archaeology can explain the evidence for advanced machining, channels like Corsetti's will continue to do well.
It's been done. Most if not all of the claims have been addressed and answered already by experimental archaeologists and other professionals. There is no shortage of debunking videos. But, as you might expect, people of a scientific bent will watch those, while those that prefer conspiracies and woo will stick with Corsetti and his ilk. It is not a matter of lack of explanation, and it is certainly not "bias" when they actually show you how it's done rather than just spin a tale. It's just that facts are less entertaining than fiction.
 
Khemit is not the Egyptian word for people who came before them.
With the best will in the world, Deirdre, I don't understand your comment "i don't see how you are saying anything different..."
Americans come from America. English come from England. he's talking about the people that came from Kemit . The egyptians before they were egyptians. (Kemit is also the name of a "religion", a kind of study of the old ways of Kemit)

He's been putting up a theory, in the interview/discussion, that some of the structures could have been built (or partially built) by the people from Khemit. Then kinda remodeled by 4th dynasty workers.

what were they called? Kemitians? Kemitish? Kemitoans?

Who says they were defiling the tomb?

I do. I am saying it.

The belief was that the pharoah's ka (maybe similar to "soul" or "spirit") would rise from the body, and would move about.
and see a bunch of sloppy crooked graffitti. Go to your neighbor Bob's house and scrawl "Bob is powerful" on his walls.. would he be happy :)

(maybe they are quarry marks. do they scrawl across 2 stones, or are they only on one stone?
i imagine the team leaders would go to the quarry and pick the stones they want. ? perhaps EVERY stone in the pyramid has a "shipping label", but the rest are hidden between 2 stones. and a few weren't hidden properly for whatever reason and they just forgot to scrape off the shipping labels/graffiti. )

No, he said "any Egyptian pyramid", "ever"!
and Mick called contrails, chemtrails a few times. I KNOW in the context of what Mick was saying he did not mean chemtrails.

If you don't want to give Corsetti the benefit of the doubt, that's cool. and you're right to point out that many mummies or mummy parts were found in later period tombs, because the way he said it was confusing to some listeners i'm sure.
 
It's been done. Most if not all of the claims have been addressed and answered already by experimental archaeologists and other professionals. There is no shortage of debunking videos. But, as you might expect, people of a scientific bent will watch those, while those that prefer conspiracies and woo will stick with Corsetti and his ilk. It is not a matter of lack of explanation, and it is certainly not "bias" when they actually show you how it's done rather than just spin a tale. It's just that facts are less entertaining than fiction.
They offer no explanation for the precision we see because they have no explanation. Thousands of jars, bowls and vases made of granite and harder stone such as corundum were manufactured. A recent scan of one of vase shows astonishing precision to 1/1000ths of an inch. What tools did the dynastic Egyptians use (before the wheel was invented) to carve these magnificent pieces? Why such precision? If you know what tooling they used, please let me know. There is a real mystery here.
 
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