Chemtrails Video with Ballast Barrels

[Rico]

View attachment 1838
We have the planes, we have the Patent and we have a need and motive to use it... yet we are not using it... So Means, Motive and Opportunity...

Also, while we are here, lets go here to:
Since again, I nor you have any access to classified docs, lets look at what else is available... more studies yes, more "need" is clearly explained explained... but again IF we are actually using this is, it would have to be classifed as I mentioned before...


Governing Geoengineering Research


A Political and Technical Vulnerability Analysis of Potential Near-Term Options


http://www.rand.org/pubs/technical_reports/TR846.html

If you google up patent 7413145, it has nothing to do with geoengineering. That patent is a fire suppression system, precisely what that 747 in the picture is intended for (fighting fires).

Let's talk about patents and motive for a moment though:
-First off, if geoengineering is for global warming, a deployed system would have to be global
-The above point means it affects everyone
-This means that careful considerations must be made in regards to the consequences of such endeavors. Consequences which likewise affects everyone
-Of course, we can skimp the consequences, but it does give a reason why we may not be using a particular 'patent'
-Besides this, certain methods may not even work

 

[John Massaria]

Since classified documents are not my forte or do I have access to them, I will use the "There are no drones" and then "oh wait, yes their are drones, it was just classified and we couldn't tell you..." or "there is no MK Ultra Program", and then "oh wait yes there was a MK Ultra Program- but it was classified"... as my final example of why this debate will go no where...
as long as clouds stream and stay in the air longer than a vapor cloud would, people like me say these programs are real... the satellite images say "CON"trail, I say its just a con... condensation doesn't cover the sky for that long... we all know they theorize and talk publicly about Geo-engineering but ITS ALL "TALK"... we aren't really doing it (wink wink).... (again- "just like there was no drones, now oh oh wait there were drones, but it was classified")... as long as there are "talks" and papers on spraying and shielding us from the sun radiation in hopes to prevent overheating and a global extinction event from the future... I believe they are exactly the same thing- classified. We have the planes, we have the Patent and we have a need and motive to use it... yet we are not using it... So Means, Motive and Opportunity...

Also, while we are here, lets go here to:
Since again, I nor you have any access to classified docs, lets look at what else is available... more studies yes, more "need" is clearly explained explained... but again IF we are actually using this is, it would have to be classifed as I mentioned before... View attachment 1840
Governing Geoengineering Research
A Political and Technical Vulnerability Analysis of Potential Near-Term Options
http://www.rand.org/pubs/technical_reports/TR846.html

 

[Rico]

as long as clouds stream and stay in the air longer than a vapor cloud would, people like me say these programs are real... the satellite images say "CON"trail, I say its just a con... condensation doesn't cover the sky for that long...

John, you seem to be standing on the same paradigm that most chemtrail believers believe: chemtrails last, contrails don't.

If you look what condensation is (hint: opposite of evaporation), what water vapour is (invisible gas), the sub-zero temperatures at altitude, and what clouds are made of (also water), then you will realize that condensation can "cover the sky for that long", because they are the same as clouds.

 

[John Massaria]

We both admit the skys are FULL of it...

 

[Pete Tar]

...(the planes are all ready to spray) ...

Perhaps you can share the evidence you think shows these ready-to-spray planes?

Do you not realise the picture you are showing with the chemtrails caption is showing a fire-supression plane? Doesn't this bother you?

 

[John Massaria]

If you google up patent 7413145, it has nothing to do with geoengineering. That patent is a fire suppression system, precisely what that 747 in the picture is intended for (fighting fires).

Let's talk about patents and motive for a moment though:
-First off, if geoengineering is for global warming, a deployed system would have to be global
-The above point means it affects everyone
-This means that careful considerations must be made in regards to the consequences of such endeavors. Consequences which likewise affects everyone
-Of course, we can skimp the consequences, but it does give a reason why we may not be using a particular 'patent'
-Besides this, certain methods may not even work

Maybe I can dig up a dozen more patents the government holds that support the SAME idea, that WE Hold patents to SPRAY.... so stop arguing little points... acknowledge I'm done debating. If a global event WAS happening and the earth was in fact heating up in a fashion some claim, and we are are experiencing species loss beyond anything ever recorded in our history at this time, the actions the global leaders would be taking would be classified. I say they have the technology, the research and the desire to proceed to protect the earth... and that's what I think they think it is... a preventative measure that is CLASSIFIED. Please can I go now? Am I worthy to get at least a "wow, that was a nice debate John thanks..." or am I just some nutter who needs more education?

 

[John Massaria]

Good night guys and girls, it has been fun. Don't expect me back soon. I have stuff to do! lol. Contact me anytime on my youtube channel... goodnight.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

I'm looking at a chart of Volcanic Eruptions? Data sampled in ONE area on the globe? Sorry, this confusses me...

Nope, not just ONE area of the globe:
Mauna Loa is the place with the longest record on the globe, but the next longest term GLOBAL satellite record agrees:
http://cee.engr.ucdavis.edu/faculty/cappa/ECI289A_Fa07/Mishchenko2007.pdf

Catch up to me, John. Do you see the satellite record showing geoengineering?

This is why no real atmospheric scientists agree with Dane Wigington and the "chemtrails are geoengineering" hoax.

Answer the question, so far you are dodging it.

Do either the longest term aerosol data from Mauna Loa show geoegineering, or the next longest term GLOBAL satellite record show geoengineering?

Either you willfully want to believe that geoeegineering is takng place despite the evidence otherwise, or you have to admit that the data shows that geoengineering isn't taking place.

Which is it, John?

Hey, I forgive you for being blindsided by this information, It is so far beyond what you havebeen told, I understand you are shocked that Dane never told you this. I assure you he knows all about it. He just doesn't want YOU to know, and withheld it from you. BTW, Michael Murphy and all the other figures know about this already, too. They are all participating in a coverup.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

John,
here could be a fleet of geoengineering spray planes ready to go, but if there was ongoin geoengneering, it simply COULD NOT BE HIDDEN. In order for geoengineering to happen, solar transmission MUST necessarily decrease, aerosol optical density would increase. Neither is happening. This is not just something that cannot be measured. It would be apparrent WORLDWIDE. You could PERSONALLY meaure it. The global AERONET network of hundreds of statons worldwide are measuring aerosols and optical transmission each and every day. This is not something which can be covered up or classified!

John, for you it is all over. The data is here, publicly available. It cannot be denied. There is actual PROOF that geoengineering isn't taking place, despite anything anyone wants to say, the data says geoenegineering isn't happening.

Can you see it, or not?

 

[Jay Reynolds]

John
Sad to see you run away when it became obvious that you had no substantive evidence that geoengineering is taking place, while I showed data which shows that it isn't taking place. See, that is how debate works when one side has facts that cannot be disputed and the other has could-be.

Maybe not knowing the facts isn't your fault, your chemtrail believeing cohorts certainly aren't talking about about it, even though the leaders certainly know about it. How does it make you feel to be deceived, to have this sort of informaton kept from you? Don't blame anyone here, we try and continue.

But, in closing, you now have a choice to make. Will you allow Dane Wigington's deceptions to stand, or will you correct your video and stand up for the truth? I hope you will and your esteem will grow substantially if you do. There is no future in continuing to make claims of geoenegineering when the facts say otherwise. The future for continuing ends exacty where you found yourself tonight, blindsided by irrefutable proof that geoengineerig isn't happening, despite any speculation to the contrary.

Look to the future, John. Don't look back on beliefs which have no substance, look towards a future where you can hold your head up and not have to dodge, bob and weave when this comes up again.

 

[GregMc]

John reveals multiple times in his comments that he doesn't understand that clouds are condensation.

John. You need to understand that basic fact. Clouds are condensation. Let's all say it together: Clouds are condensation. Clouds can last a long time. Condensation can last a long time. Snow is a form of condensation. Snow can last a long time. Condensation trails are ......... Condensation. Condensation can last a long time.


Now John you need to break your bad habit of deliberately lying and misrepresenting what people say.

Noone here said geoengineering is a myth. It is an area of scientific research conducted by scientists who publish unclassified documents and distribute them to as many other scientists as possible in a public manner in the hope other scientists can check their research. That is far from a myth.

 

[Cairenn]

BTW his chemtrail nonsense is still up on the ALMA site. He lied when he said he had removed it. He did remove the 'ALMA warns all that martial law is coming'.

It has been interesting day. I wonder if he will be back or if he will go tell folks how rude we were to him?

 

[Jazzy]

insults... wow it's gotten to that now... huh? Jazzy.

Petroleum aviation spirit is toxic in itself, but burns mainly to carbon dioxide and water. Aviation high-bypass fanjets are the most efficient combustion devices on the planet. Aircraft are far more fuel-efficient than the number of cars they replace. They are reducing the amount of poison we put into our environment.

It seems your "education" has made a lie of this. What else has it made a lie of?

 

[scombrid]

View attachment 1838
We have the planes, we have the Patent and we have a need and motive to use it... yet we are not using it... So Means, Motive and Opportunity...

All of the trails in those satellite images you posted were from passenger planes. Do some plane watching and identifying and you'll find that 99% of trails are from commercial passenger traffic and not from the evergreen firefighting tanker in the chemtrails planet photo you post here.

 

[John Massaria]

All of the trails in those satellite images you posted were from passenger planes. Do some plane watching and identifying and you'll find that 99% of trails are from commercial passenger traffic and not from the evergreen firefighting tanker in the chemtrails planet photo you post here.

You need help.

help... yes thanks! I feel better. There is no motive to cool planet - GOT it... no intent and no means GOT it... I totally got it... I got it... its all just speculation and conjuncture this document... got it... we research HOW to stop global warming with geo-engineering BUT we have no proof of actual proof... again... because I and you do not have access to CLASSIFIED Docs... only what is available... I see clear research, ability, intent, motive and I see evidence ... the classified stuff is well... CLASSIFIED... so until I "get help" opening up those docs, its all pointless to debate the same exact thing over and over...

"I did not have sexual relations," but he did.
"There are no drone programs", but there is- and it was classified.
Gulf of Tonkin was not planned, but it was.LBJ took advantage of an inexperienced sonar man's report to goad Congress into escalating the Vietnam War.
Cigarettes were advertised to have health benefits, lie.
Cell phones pose no threat, but they emit radiation which is known to mutate cells.
MK Ultra is not real, but we admit it was real but classified.

You debunkers like quotes of fancy... debunk this... HOW CAN YOU TRUST a lair?
"When you live under a government that lies, you cannot know anything for certain about your lives. All you can know is what you are told. The Constitution does not authorize the government to lie to We The People. The tenth amendment bars the government from presuming that right. When the government lies, it therefore acts unconstitutionally and illegally."

Making false statements (18 U.S.C. § 1001) is the common name for the United States federal crime laid out in Section 1001 of Title 18 of the United States Code, which generally prohibits lying or concealing information in "any matter within the jurisdiction" of the federal government of the United States, even by mere denial. However, when it comes to anything CLASSIFIED- all bets are off... until some one discovers the lie... and then they say, oppps! sorry yea we did that...

"If Government Gets Caught Lying 10 Times, Why Is Calling Lie Before The 11th A Conspiracy Theory?"

"They have a motive to spray, they have the ability to spray, they did research on how to spray... I say with with the sky's being painted now more than ever... them ain't just vapor clouds up there..."View attachment 1843
Dozen more docs showing we have done research into climate change and geo-engineering... again its not proof- but it shows we practiced it (in theory- over and over). again- I have no docs that are classified and I argue you have none either. They have papers outlining HOW to do it , MOTIVE why to do it, the ABILITY to do it, the big question is do they do it? You say I don't understand all clouds are vapor and water... oh my gad do I come off as that dumb or are you trying to make your reader think I am that dumb, or do you think I don't know that, and it's really making yourself look dumb... which ever no matter.. I said my case.

 

[John Massaria]

BTW his chemtrail nonsense is still up on the ALMA site. He lied when he said he had removed it. He did remove the 'ALMA warns all that martial law is coming'.

It has been interesting day. I wonder if he will be back or if he will go tell folks how rude we were to him?

Thanks for monitoring my facebook fan page AGAIN... policing my fan page lol! wow... did I not say BEFORE I created over 6 FB fan pages, and I share videos on those pages, sometimes BY accident or sometimes out of my excitement... Yes... and again, I did removed the one video on ALMA page... that is correct when you mentioned that.... And I will remove the one other video as well... since it bothers you and NO one else... the needs of the one out way the needs of the many (and vice verse) but mainly since I agree, it really isn't related to ALMA site. And yes, you guys were rude (get a proper education, you need help, etc)... but I don't talk behind peoples back on forums or in person, so I wouldn't make a statement like that unless you were there to hear it and defend it... so keep "monitoring and correcting people" becuase thats what you have been and continue to do... and I am sure SOME people "thank you for it"

 

[John Massaria]

stop saying a lie ok? stop trying to mince words... government's lie... and you twist words... I said they have "the means, the motive, the practice, the research and ability to spray..." THE biggest one is motive. My presentation here and for the last I don't know, 26 such lengthy response's is the same... we are going in circles... debunker Jazzy...View attachment 1844

 

[Mick West]

John, I don't think you are listening to people here. You are posting a lot of stuff over and over again and ignoring what people are saying.

I'm giving you a 24 hour ban, to cool down.

When you return, if you want to continue, I'd like you to address JUST two points:

1) What exactly are the barrels in your video? The answer is in the first post of this thread, but I want you to explain it, to make sure you understand.

2) How long can a contrail last, and what factors influence that duration?

If you can address those two points, then we can proceed. If not, then I'll ban you again.

You've already spent several hours typing here, so ten minutes of research should not be a problem for you.

 

[cloudspotter]

Now appearing all across Facebook:

"How I was banned by "government cyber ops" at a debunking site when THEY LOST"

And a link to this thread

 

[JFDee]

John Massaria said:

"They have the means, the motive, the practice, the research and ability to spray..."

Even if all these statements were proven facts (I think you are heavily overestimating the capabilities of governments), there is still no evidence - not even a hint - that any spraying for geoengineering purposes is actually going on.

Contrails are not created intentionally which should be common ground by now. Also, their overall impact on the climate is not determined clearly yet. There are hints that they contribute rather to some warming which would not make any sense with respect to the goals of any geoengineering.

The 'real' geoengineering proposals are referring to aerosols injected into the atmosphere high above the jet liner levels, with huge amounts of material (sulfur) involved. There is no way to keep an operation of this magnitude secret - plus, the effects would be measurable.

We don't even have the right planes to do it. Rockets could be used in theory, but think about all the logistics necessary. Also, not good for secrecy.

As stated in other discussions around here: we can't disprove that there may be a secret, invisible, undetectable spraying program going on, which has no results. But then - how would you prove its actual existence?

Surely not by showing images of water ballast tanks used in airplane testing - images which are available all over the Internet. How secret is that?

 

[David Fraser]

To be frank in this debate all I can see is a person craving attention with no care where that comes from. It seems he is not willing to nail his colours to the mast. On here we are seeing a different persona than elsewhere and different ideas. Is thus just a narcissistic exercise John or are you willing to openly state you beliefs? Are we been sprayed Globally with heavy metals?

 

[Unregistered]

To be frank in this debate all I can see is a person craving attention with no care where that comes from. It seems he is not willing to nail his colours to the mast. On here we are seeing a different persona than elsewhere and different ideas. Is thus just a narcissistic exercise John or are you willing to openly state you beliefs? Are we been sprayed Globally with heavy metals?

I crave nothing. I would do anything to comply with any law, and am voicing my opinions. BTW I am banned from answering (I guess I was repeating my self)... so I apologize for any miss understanding. I will label the video clearly as water containers... I really just made a video for those guys on the conference call, just because I care about our planet. Can you leave me out of the discussion now? Leave me out... I don't like arguing, I hear it's not good for anyone... so lets just move on... as the video in question will be corrected... I will remove the posts from my facebook page... I really want no trouble ok?

 

[Unregistered]

To be frank in this debate all I can see is a person craving attention with no care where that comes from. It seems he is not willing to nail his colours to the mast. On here we are seeing a different persona than elsewhere and different ideas. Is thus just a narcissistic exercise John or are you willing to openly state you beliefs? Are we been sprayed Globally with heavy metals?

Just let me take it all down... I don't want any trouble... i am removing all posts in relation to chem sorry, CONtrails... and well.. I don't want to break any laws or upset anyone... so... you win it's water and nothing more...

 

[Pete Tar]

Now appearing all across Facebook:

"How I was banned by "government cyber ops" at a debunking site when THEY LOST"

And a link to this thread

Well that was an interesting introduction to another player.
He had absolutely nothing to say, but seemed quite excited about it.
Nothing like a little perceived persecution to concrete your beliefs.

I wonder if the site traffic will spike immensely with his multitude of followers.

 

[Mattnik]

It appears he deleted that post.

 

[Cairenn]

Didn't I say he would do that? He is upset that someone is calling him on his posts now.

It is a shame that folks like him impress others and get them to ignore facts and good reasoning.

 

[Pete Tar]

The damage has been done...
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread929752/pg1
"What do you think those planes full of interconnected tanks are used for? Those ramjet-looking dispersion nozzles?"

(some posters are attempting to correct the deliberate misrepresentations, whilst being accused of being part of a government operation of course)

 

[Jay Reynolds]

They have papers outlining HOW to do it , MOTIVE why to do it, the ABILITY to do it, the big question is do they do it?

John, here is the data which would prove that geoengineering isn't happening. It is right here on this page, geoengineering detectors sensing worldwide day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade. If geoengineering were happening, it would be measured.

Why won't you address this?
You ask questions like the one above, and the answer is provided over and over.
The reason why you don't address it becomes clear.
You refuse to answer because you know it is the end of your argument.

View attachment 1845

 

[Cairenn]

I just wasted some time reading a lot of the posts at ATS. What is about folks having to post their IQ? and it is ALWAYS way above the genius level. I am in Mensa and most of us don't go around telling folks that we are smart. In general, those that brag about it, aren't.

I can't see how John maintains that he is calling contrails, chemtrails. I wonder if his presence on the ALMA site makes some folks believe him more? I sort of got that impression there

 

[Pete Tar]

I just wasted some time reading a lot of the posts at ATS...

Sorry about that. It's mental popcorn to me. I suspect my own motives aren't pure - I sometimes seem to read that crap just because it gets me riled up, eg, "How can people be so stupid!!!?? Aaargh!"
It's like gawking at freaks. Shame on me.

 

[hemi]

Sorry about that. It's mental popcorn to me. I suspect my own motives aren't pure - I sometimes seem to read that crap just because it gets me riled up, eg, "How can people be so stupid!!!?? Aaargh!"
It's like gawking at freaks. Shame on me.

I feel your shame. I was the same over GLP for a while -- just couldn't look away. Managed to get myself banned, which sorted out that particular bad habit.

 

[Ross Marsden]

I just wasted some time reading a lot of the posts at ATS. ...

Sorry about that. It's mental popcorn to me. I suspect my own motives aren't pure - I sometimes seem to read that crap just because it gets me riled up, eg, "How can people be so stupid!!!?? Aaargh!"
It's like gawking at freaks. Shame on me.

I feel your shame. I was the same over GLP for a while -- just couldn't look away. Managed to get myself banned, which sorted out that particular bad habit.

LOL Same here, more or less.
It's like the results of a car crash - you can't look at it, and you can't look away.

It's why I read here! Oh, the shame!

 

[Cairenn]

My hubby keeps asking me WHY? Why do you think you need to correct the internet.

 

[hemi]

Perhaps some sort of support group is in order.

 

[Pete Tar]

My hubby keeps asking me WHY? Why do you think you need to correct the internet.

I believe some agreement on consensus reality is important, especially when it relates to major events with major implications for society. eg, a government that creates a massacre just to make gun ownership harder.
Belief in things like that has some serious negative implications, so it's important we find a way to ascertain what is true so all sides can agree and not hold onto irrational ideas, and collectively agree on what issues need to be addressed. Otherwise how can we grow?

 

[Jazzy]

I believe some agreement on consensus reality is important, especially when it relates to major events with major implications for society. eg, a government that creates a massacre just to make gun ownership harder.
Belief in things like that has some serious negative implications, so it's important we find a way to ascertain what is true so all sides can agree and not hold onto irrational ideas, and collectively agree on what issues need to be addressed. Otherwise how can we grow?

Absolutely. It rubs up very badly against what we know has to be done to moderate climate change. This meme seems directly opposed.

 

[Cairenn]

It has always seemed to me that when any activist group, get extreme or starts promoting extreme views, that they end up hurting their own cause. Those that oppose that view will latch onto the extreme or nutty viewpoints and will use that as the symbol of the 'cause'. We see the same thing in politics.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

Perhaps some sort of support group is in order.

I have been contacted over the years by quite a few people who have the same sort of story as this one from Contrailscience.com:

•Alynn114 says:
February 28, 2013 at 1:36 pm .Sigh. What a relief it was to stumble across your article. I sent the link to my husband, a chemtrail conspirist. How I dread the constant gazing at the sky and chemtrail comments. Why he doesn’t want to go outdoors because of the spray, why they never seem to spray when the president is in town. You may have saved my marriage! Now if only I could persuade you to write articles on how 911 really was a terrorist attack and a plane actually hit the pentagon, or even the latest conspiracy on how sandy hook was not staged to influence gun control; I’d really gain some sanity back. I suppose a recommendation for a good therapist who specializes in paranoid personality disorder wouldn’t hurt either. Also I wanted to commend you on the professionalism of your responses to the one particular writer. Wonderful display of intelligence and confidence. Kudos.

If they had a place to gather, they might come together there. One interesting case involves a major figure in the chemtrail movement whose name is easily recognizable.

A family member contacts me regularly and reports that this person has alienated family members and best friends over the subject, and demonstrates extreme paranoia to the detriment of the family.

I'm probably not well suited to do this, but I sincerely think that if a place existed for such support, it would eventually find members accumulating and could be very helpful.

 

[Rico]

The issue with the conspiracy 'patients' is that they don't think they are the issue. They won't take help seriously because they believe they are in the right and so they don't need help. It's exactly the same as when you present them with verifiable evidence to contradict their claims--they don't acknowledge it, they don't think they are valid, because they are completely convinced that they are in the right even if they don't really know why.

I think really what they need is someone they can trust and someone who can be patient with them in working out their reasoning skills. Someone who is close and someone with good cognitive skills.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

I think really what they need is someone they can trust and someone who can be patient with them in working out their reasoning skills. Someone who is close and someone with good cognitive skills.

Sounds like a concerned relative might help. I often see them remark about how family members don't cooperate, and suspect that those people could help, but some of them isolate themselves or are socially unskilled.

Here is the way it goes sometimes:
http://www.psychforums.com/schizophrenia/topic62039.html